Current Events > Why the fuck did Japan declare war on US in WW2?

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is something i've never understood.

Go read a history book for once, and you'll find out.

Printerscape posted...

Go read a history book for once, and you'll find out.

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chill02 posted...

Printerscape posted...

Go read a history book for once, and you'll find out.

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The Japanese were attempting to expand their empire and the United States slapped them with some hard hitting trade embargos, especially on oil.
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ThePrinceFish posted...

The Japanese were attempting to expand their empire and the United States slapped them with some hard hitting trade embargos, especially on oil.

i just dont understand why that would be a reason to declare war on the most powerful nation in the world, or even be involved in WW2 after WW1 was so destructive

the reasons..just dont add up

The US wasn't a world power until after WWII
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ThePrinceFish posted...

The Japanese were attempting to expand their empire and the United States slapped them with some hard hitting trade embargos, especially on oil.

This. They either back down and look like bitches to their people and the world, or they foolishly declare war and attempt their conquest of the pacific
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chill02 posted...

The US wasn't a world power until after WWII

..yes it was

after Japan bombed pearl harbor the US rebuilt the size of Japans entire navy once every single year. they also had just sold britain 50 destroyers right before the attack...US industry was insane already by then

FighterStreet posted...

ThePrinceFish posted...

The Japanese were attempting to expand their empire and the United States slapped them with some hard hitting trade embargos, especially on oil.

i just dont understand why that would be a reason to declare war on the most powerful nation in the world, or even be involved in WW2 after WW1 was so destructive

the reasons..just dont add up

The true power of the US wasn't really realised until about mid to late 1942 when the country truly mobilised
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FighterStreet posted...

ThePrinceFish posted...

The Japanese were attempting to expand their empire and the United States slapped them with some hard hitting trade embargos, especially on oil.

i just dont understand why that would be a reason to declare war on the most powerful nation in the world, or even be involved in WW2 after WW1 was so destructive

the reasons..just dont add up

The intent was to knock out US Pacific power long enough for them to establish a stronger defensive foothold on their acquisitions and force the US to a draw so as to keep said acquisitions. That the Lexington, Saratoga, and Enterprise weren't at Pearl Harbor made a significant difference in how the Pacific Theater turned out in addition to the US being able to maintain an incredibly strong war economy because our infrastructure remained untouched.
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FighterStreet posted...

chill02 posted...

The US wasn't a world power until after WWII

..yes it was

after Japan bombed pearl harbor the US rebuilt the size of Japans entire navy once every single year. they also had just sold britain 50 destroyers right before the attack...US industry was insane already by then

The US was still recovering from the great depression & their military was a shell of it's former self.
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ThePieReborn posted...

FighterStreet posted...

ThePrinceFish posted...

The Japanese were attempting to expand their empire and the United States slapped them with some hard hitting trade embargos, especially on oil.

i just dont understand why that would be a reason to declare war on the most powerful nation in the world, or even be involved in WW2 after WW1 was so destructive

the reasons..just dont add up

The intent was to knock out US Pacific power long enough for them to establish a stronger defensive foothold on their acquisitions and force the US to a draw so as to keep said acquisitions. That the Lexington, Saratoga, and Enterprise weren't at Pearl Harbor made a significant difference in how the Pacific Theater turned out.

thank you, this actually makes a lot of sense

so they essentially just underestimated US industry and also got unlucky because importants ships from US fleet were not at pearl harbor at the time

FighterStreet posted...

ThePrinceFish posted...

The Japanese were attempting to expand their empire and the United States slapped them with some hard hitting trade embargos, especially on oil.

i just dont understand why that would be a reason to declare war on the most powerful nation in the world, or even be involved in WW2 after WW1 was so destructive

the reasons..just dont add up

Well Japan was on the "winning" side of WWI, but was treated as if they were on the losing side. They were hit with a bunch of military restrictions that they felt were unfair considering they helped to attack German ships in WWI. So that on top of wanting to expand their area of control (part of which was the U.S controlled Philippines) led them to attack the U.S. Pearl Harbor was incredibly effective at restricting our movements in the pacific, Japan gambled that they could consolidate their new territory before the U.S had time to strike back. We also weren't considered the military superpower we are today, yes we were advanced, but we were definitely not the most powerful nation in the world until after the war.
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FighterStreet posted...

This is something i've never understood.

It's like high school isn't working anymore.
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Kim Kusanagi posted...

FighterStreet posted...

This is something i've never understood.

It's like high school isn't working anymore.

more like it's been 15 years since high school and i decided to study medicine, not history. Frankly, i just never really understood the logic behind attacking the us. i knew the facts, but did not understand why they thought it was smart to attack US

even now after this topic it stll seems misguided as fuck.

but go ahead and continue to be a smartass

Part of that is because hindsight is 20/20 and we have access to the entirety of information that the generals/admirals then didn't.

For instance we today view aircraft carriers as the primary mechanism of exerting power at sea and we can clearly identify that the the missing Pearl Harbor carriers had tremendous impact. Prior to WW2, battleships were still considered to be the heart of a fleet while carriers were support vessels.
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America had 14 B-17 bombers

Japan had a guy who could drop a 500lb bomb down a smokestack from 1000ft.
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they thought the Pearl Harbor attack would cripple our Navy too much to recover

doubt they were expecting the war to end with 2 atomic bombs
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FighterStreet posted...

even now after this topic it stll seems misguided as fuck.

Consider that you are an empire with a God King. You see yourselves as powerful and just. You also have the strength to overtake your immediate neighbors. As you start to expand, the country across the ocean begins to get agitated. You sign a pact with the Germans and the Italians in an attempt to spook the US because they might have to fight battles on both their shores. The United States embargoes your oil. Oil is industry. Oil is war. Oil is life. Your oil WILL dry up eventually. Attempting to move further into Asia and take new sources of oil will provoke the United States to attack you. But you also believe that if you make a surprise strike on their forward naval base; you can execute defensive plans before they can respond.

Would you retreat back to your island nation like the enemy wants? Or would you hold your ground and attack? You are a proud people after all.
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ThePrinceFish posted...

FighterStreet posted...

even now after this topic it stll seems misguided as fuck.

Consider that you are an empire with a God King. You see yourselves as powerful and just. You also have the strength to overtake your immediate neighbors. As you start to expand, the country across the ocean begins to get agitated. You sign a pact with the Germans and the Italians in an attempt to spook the US because they might have to fight battles on both their shores. The United States embargoes your oil. Oil is industry. Oil is war. Oil is life. Your oil WILL dry up eventually. Attempting to move further into Asia and take new sources of oil will provoke the United States to attack you. But you also believe that if you make a surprise strike on their forward naval base; you can execute defensive plans before they can respond.

Would you retreat back to your island nation like the enemy wants? Or would you hold your ground and attack? You are a proud people after all.

Wow well put
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FighterStreet posted...

more like it's been 15 years since high school and i decided to study medicine, not history.

I have been out of high school for (gasp!) 20 YEARS and studied electronics engineering yet I haven't forgotten history.

Your excuse is sorry and inadmisible.
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Kim Kusanagi posted...

FighterStreet posted...

more like it's been 15 years since high school and i decided to study medicine, not history.

I have been out of high school for (gasp!) 20 YEARS and studied electronics engineering yet I haven't forgotten history.

Your excuse is sorry and inadmisible.

And you're also a shitposter so no one cares what you think.
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Kim Kusanagi posted...

FighterStreet posted...

more like it's been 15 years since high school and i decided to study medicine, not history.

I have been out of high school for (gasp!) 20 YEARS and studied electronics engineering yet I haven't forgotten history.

Your excuse is sorry and inadmisible.

i feel like you're going off some idea that anyone on the internet gives a fuck about your validation and need for self-importance. run along now, mr. engineer

ThePrinceFish posted...

FighterStreet posted...

even now after this topic it stll seems misguided as fuck.

Consider that you are an empire with a God King. You see yourselves as powerful and just. You also have the strength to overtake your immediate neighbors. As you start to expand, the country across the ocean begins to get agitated. You sign a pact with the Germans and the Italians in an attempt to spook the US because they might have to fight battles on both their shores. The United States embargoes your oil. Oil is industry. Oil is war. Oil is life. Your oil WILL dry up eventually. Attempting to move further into Asia and take new sources of oil will provoke the United States to attack you. But you also believe that if you make a surprise strike on their forward naval base; you can execute defensive plans before they can respond.

Would you retreat back to your island nation like the enemy wants? Or would you hold your ground and attack? You are a proud people after all.

this was really well-put, thank you

First off, most in the Japanese High Command underestimated the U.S.'s capacity and will to fight. This wasn't just a Japanese mistake: more of a general militarist/fascist belief in the "softness" of "liberal democracy".

Second of all, the U.S. sort of picked a fight, as after the Japanese moved to occupy European colonies in Southeast Asia following the fall of France and the Netherlands, we imposed a severe embargo on Japan, most especially on oil and scrap metal e.g. the very two things Japan needed most. Of course, it needed those things to wage its bloody wars in China and Southeast Asia, so the embargo was definitely the right thing to do.
In any case, there was recognition at high levels in the U.S. that this would likely provoke a Japanese attack, and preparations were made: to an extent. The U.S. army and navy had begun preparing defenses in certain places(including the Phillipines), but the Japanese not only attacked faster than anticipated, they hit everywhere at once, including Pearl Harbor, which was considered to be outside their range. The speed and breadth of their attack caught the U.S. completely off-guard and allowed them to score a string of big victories in the early-going. Basically, the Japanese were hoping that, if they could keep the momentum going, we would fold quickly.

Lastly, the purpose behind attacking Pearl Harbor was many-fold, but one of the prime targets were three aircraft carriers: the Enterprise, the Hornet, and the Yorktown. The Japanese navy had no shortage of carriers and grasped their immense strategic potential, but all of the carriers happened to be out on exercises at the time of the attack, so they were all left unscathed. However, the navy's losses at Pearl were quite serious nonetheless, and definitely bought the Japanese time. Just not nearly enough.

I always like reading ElatedVenasaur and Funkdamental posts.
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FighterStreet posted...

This is something i've never understood.

It's like how you need to knock out the strongest guy in the prison on your first day there in order to show everyone that you're tough.
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FighterStreet posted...

i feel like you're going off some idea that anyone on the internet gives a f*** about

Nope. General knowledge of history is a must.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

As I said, you received an education, but you didn't retain any of it.
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Kim Kusanagi posted...

FighterStreet posted...

i feel like you're going off some idea that anyone on the internet gives a f*** about

Nope. General knowledge of history is a must.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

As I said, you received an education, but you didn't retain any of it.

sktgamer_13dude posted...

And you're also a shitposter so no one cares what you think.

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pizzarific posted...

chill02 posted...

Printerscape posted...

Go read a history book for once, and you'll find out.

>Asks a question to enrich their understanding of history
>people who obviously don't know the answer snap at him


smh CE
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

And you're also a s***poster so no one cares what you think.

You do enough to reply

:-*
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They were betting on the United States backing off the embargos after showing them how they can destroy the United States Navy. Obviously they lost
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They needed to control the Pacific Islands for the resources; such as the Dutch East Indies which are rich in oil. The only other major power that could threaten the recently industrialized Japan was the US. The preemptive strike was to bloody their nose before the US could get involved and take the islands for themselves.

Ultimately, the US took the islands back and cut off the supply of natural resources, but had the lion's share of the US navy been at Pearl Harbor during the attack, they might not have had the capability of island hopping.

Th3Truth posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Kim Kusanagi posted...

FighterStreet posted...

more like it's been 15 years since high school and i decided to study medicine, not history.

I have been out of high school for (gasp!) 20 YEARS and studied electronics engineering yet I haven't forgotten history.

Your excuse is sorry and inadmisible.

And you're also a shitposter so no one cares what you think.

LOL Did he really say he studied electronic engineering? He told me he was a successful physician. That dweeb is a hoth tier pathological liar.

I never said I was a physician.

I am a physicist

Don't you know the fucking difference?

Or are you so spiteful you aren't working well today?
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One of the biggest mistakes Hitler made was declaring war on the United States of America. The only country he officially declared war on.
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the tl;dr is that the US had blocked Japan's access to steel and oil, which crippled their ability to wage war locally. Pearl Harbor was an attempt to sneak attack our navy into oblivion so they could quickly negotiate a peace treaty that lifted all those trade embargos. It was never meant to escalate to a full scale war, but a surprise crippling of our navy followed by a treaty.
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Th3Truth posted...

Kim Kusanagi posted...

Th3Truth posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Kim Kusanagi posted...

FighterStreet posted...

more like it's been 15 years since high school and i decided to study medicine, not history.

I have been out of high school for (gasp!) 20 YEARS and studied electronics engineering yet I haven't forgotten history.

Your excuse is sorry and inadmisible.

And you're also a shitposter so no one cares what you think.

LOL Did he really say he studied electronic engineering? He told me he was a successful physician. That dweeb is a hoth tier pathological liar.

I never said I was a physician.

I am a physicist

Don't you know the fucking difference?

Or are you so spiteful you aren't working well today?

lol nice duck but it's another lie. I'm looking at the topic right now and it clearly says physician. Before I expose you let's have you recite the rest of your living conditions as well as the car you drove in that topic. Can you even keep up with what you've posted?

You're looking at the topic?

Give me the link NOW.

I give you an hour and you won't deliver because you're a fucking LIAR.

Link me to the logs if you must LIAR.

I'll enjoy making you the laughing stock of CE when you get exposed as a full of it LIAR that has absolutely nothing to back your shit up.
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Kim Kusanagi posted...

Th3Truth posted...

Kim Kusanagi posted...

Th3Truth posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Kim Kusanagi posted...

FighterStreet posted...

more like it's been 15 years since high school and i decided to study medicine, not history.

I have been out of high school for (gasp!) 20 YEARS and studied electronics engineering yet I haven't forgotten history.

Your excuse is sorry and inadmisible.

And you're also a shitposter so no one cares what you think.

LOL Did he really say he studied electronic engineering? He told me he was a successful physician. That dweeb is a hoth tier pathological liar.

I never said I was a physician.

I am a physicist

Don't you know the fucking difference?

Or are you so spiteful you aren't working well today?

lol nice duck but it's another lie. I'm looking at the topic right now and it clearly says physician. Before I expose you let's have you recite the rest of your living conditions as well as the car you drove in that topic. Can you even keep up with what you've posted?

You're looking at the topic?

Give me the link NOW.

I give you an hour and you won't deliver because you're a fucking LIAR.

Link me to the logs if you must LIAR.

I'll enjoy making you the laughing stock of CE when you get exposed as a full of it LIAR that has absolutely nothing to back your shit up.

yo you should try a chill pill man

@ElatedVenusaur thanks for saving this thread

it's worth noting that the japanese had to react to the US oil embargo by invading the oil-rich east indies, and they knew there was no chance of them doing that without provoking a US attack
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@FighterStreet

I will after @Th3Truth gets exposed as the failure of a liar he is.

"He is looking at the post right now" yeah right as if that was going to scare someone or something.

Not even doctoring a screen cap will let him get away from me exposing him as an utter failure of a liar.

Btw @Th3Truth 20 minutes left.
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Because it was the logical next step after they bombed Pearl Harbor.

10 minutes left th3falsehood
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Jswift254 posted...

FighterStreet posted...

ThePrinceFish posted...

The Japanese were attempting to expand their empire and the United States slapped them with some hard hitting trade embargos, especially on oil.

i just dont understand why that would be a reason to declare war on the most powerful nation in the world, or even be involved in WW2 after WW1 was so destructive

the reasons..just dont add up

The true power of the US wasn't really realised until about mid to late 1942 when the country truly mobilised

Yup. Before WW2, we were ranked 17th in military power'

Then we went full SSJ
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Holy shit man, calm the fuck down.

ThePieReborn posted...

Part of that is because hindsight is 20/20 and we have access to the entirety of information that the generals/admirals then didn't.

For instance we today view aircraft carriers as the primary mechanism of exerting power at sea and we can clearly identify that the the missing Pearl Harbor carriers had tremendous impact. Prior to WW2, battleships were still considered to be the heart of a fleet while carriers were support vessels.

wat.

The Japanese lost all Aircraft Carriers at Midway. Battle tactic already knew Aircraft Carriers were the future (Chester Nimitz comes to mind). The Americans destroyed the Japanese Aircraft Carrier fleet not because it was unimportant; but the opposite.
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Anyways, here is why:

Japan owned Phillipinnes
Guam
They were destroying China and taking Manchuria and other land
They owned Korea
They owned the Pacific entirely - except they weren't finished with China, and they also wanted to go up against Russia. They needed oil and materials and steel and iron and machinery.
So when the US embargo'd their War Machine - they went ahead with plans to continue expansion in the Pacific. Which was the pesky US fleet in the Pacific ocean over there off Hawaii.
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