Board 8 > Jeff Zero & Leonhart in Different Houses: Life Will Change Edition [JZLF]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mac Arrowny posted...

P4's dungeons felt longer to me than the respective Tartarus segments. Maybe the superficial differences between them emphasized how fundamentally copied they were from each other as well.

Another perk of P5: less dumb sidequests. Hated going back to the dungeons in the previous two games to do them, but couldn't help myself due to my completionist nature...

I think probably the main thing that made P3 seem shorter in that regard is that you are much more likely to find the stairs early on in the floor. P4 makes you explore a decent bit to find the stairs. They're almost never close by. But yeah, not having to revisit old dungeons for quests is a huge plus in Persona 5, too.

xp1337 posted...

Mementos is Tartarus done wrong, IMO, but maybe it's just exacerbated by the actual P5 dungeons being so much better that the contrast is more glaring.

Yeah, Mementos isn't great, but it's largely painless, I think. One of the things that makes it more bearable than it otherwise would be is party banter, even if it does repeat from time to time. Plus, the Shadows tend to be weak and you can get lots of treasures and money there, too.
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Music: 4 >= 3 > 5

It was tough picking between 3 and 4 here. I think I enjoy listening to 3's music more while I'm playing the game, but I think 4's is better for listening outside of the game, so I gave it a slight edge overall. Persona 5's OST isn't bad, per se, but I think it's just inferior to the other two. I'm not good at talking about music, so if you want me to give a detailed analysis of why that is, you're out of luck! Yes, I named this topic after Persona 5's standout track, but that's just one song!

Town: 5 >= 4 > 3

I give Persona 5 the edge because there's just so much stuff to do, so many places to go, and it's just really beautiful with the art style. I wish you could've gone to some of these places other than for hanging out, but like I said before, there are so many things in the town that I never did or only did once or twice. It's kinda overwhelming at times, honestly, but it's just so much fun at the same time. I'll probably try to take my time and explore some more in the NG+ playthrough because I'm not rushing to try to finish the game now.

I'm not a huge fan of Tatsumi Port Island because it didn't feel like there were many places worth going to on a regular basis. Your options were more limited than the other two games. Like, I'm trying to think of my favorite place to go (other than the school, which doesn't count in this case, because I'm giving schools their own category), and I'm coming up blank. Maybe Club Escapade, but that's just for the S. Link, really. There aren't a lot of worthwhile NPCs around town either, other than the male/female student duo who gradually switch places in terms of which one is stalking the other.

But the NPCs around town is one of the areas where Persona 4 excels. It really takes advantage of the fact that it's a small town. By the end of the game, you almost feel like you know all these nameless NPCs, whether it's the twin girls, Spacey Girl and Boy on Errands, the boy and the two girls fighting over him at the shrine (P4's kid characters are amazingly likable considering many games have a hard time creating likable kid characters), the old man and his daughter standing outside the shrine, the guy who loves motorcycles but doesn't own one, the owner of Aiya, the owner of Shiroku, Daidara, etc. I always find myself running around town and checking on them regularly to see if their dialogue has updated. It's oddly fascinating just following these seemingly insignificant stories over the course of the game. The one downside of Inaba being small, of course, is that there isn't much else to do, although Golden fixed that a little by giving you a couple of new places to go and a few new things to do. I think the one thing I wish they had let you do was walk around or at least shop at Junes, but I love Inaba and the small town vibe overall.

Residence: 3 > 4 > 5

I really like living in the dorms with the other party members in Persona 3. It's just cool living together with everyone and coming home to them all every night. I wish they had updated the dialogue more often and let them interact more often, but I still really like it. Coming home to Nanako's "Welcome home!" every day is pleasant, which makes it all the more impactful when you stop hearing it toward the end of the game. You just get used to it. Hanging out with the Dojimas is A+, of course, but there's not much else to it other than the outstanding forays into the Refrigerator World. Leblanc has more stuff to do because you can watch DVDs and play video games with fantastic spoof dialogue, but living in an attic is still kinda lame.
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Eh, I don't mind the P4 dungeons. I like the atmosphere of each dungeon and it's definitely more enjoyable than Tartarus. Doesn't matter either way, because Persona 5's dungeons are totally the way to go.

Agree with all the other Persona comparisons, though! Especially on music. Life Will Change is excellent, but I feel like Persona 3 and Persona 4 had better overall soundtracks.

also persona 5 definitely has the weakest when it comes to the normal boss music
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Some differences here!

Music: 3 > 4 > 5.

3 and 4 are both great though. 5 just isn't on their level though it has some nice songs, so it's not bad or anything.

Town: 5 > 3 > 4.

P5 blows the other two out of the water here. 3 and 4 are close to a toss-up, I just like the aesthetics of Port Island more, I guess.

Residence: 3 > 5 > 4

Totally with you on the dorms, they put P3 well above the others. The Dojima residence just feels cramped and I don't like Nanako as much as most (she's okay.) There's a lot more you can do at Leblanc as well.
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Palaces are easily the best dungeons in the series, although I really wish they were shorter in general. Didn't care much for Mementos but it was cool that they put all quests into one (very easy) place.

4 > 5 >= 3 is probably my music ranking - maybe it's just familiarity with 4 but that's the only one I don't feel was carried by one or two big songs.

I don't remember Tatsumi Port Island at all. Granted I'm probably due for a P3 replay if I get the chance, but still.

P5 residence is the worst because it has Morgana
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School: 4 > 3 > 5

Yasogami has the same advantage that Inaba as a town does: So many great NPCs whose stories you become strangely invested in, whether it's Riddle Senpai, the couple in the practice building, the girl outside the library, the guy in the classroom who can't find the guts to talk to the girl on the roof, the guy who pines to meet the girl who he used to hang out with as a kid (who happens to be right down the hall from him without either of them realizing it), etc. It's just the benefit of the smaller school. Plus, I really like the old, somewhat dilapidated look, the wooden floors, and all that stuff. I think it has the better group of teachers overall, too, with King Moron, Egyptian headdress teacher, and the guy who is apparently P4's version of Mr. Garrison since he has a hand puppet with him all the time.

Gekkoukan and Shujin are just a little too big for me. It doesn't feel like there are as many cool NPCs to keep up with. P3 mostly just has the Mitsuru fangirl who pesters you for new information about her from time to time. I didn't really get attached to anyone at Shujin other than maybe the newspaper club president or the guy who pretends to be a Phantom Thief. It just takes too much time running around trying to find people to talk to. P5 has the best teacher in any of the three games in Kawakami, but the rest of them are kinda whatever, and that guy who throws chalk at you sucks. I'll be dodging all those throws this time around now that I have max Proficiency! Can't wait! Persona 3 has a couple of good teachers in samurai hat who is the brother of Egyptian headdress (cool little bit of continuity) and Toriumi (although mostly because she's Maya), but I can't stand the dude who rants about occult stuff all the time. I guess he must have been popular otherwise because they thought it was a good idea to bring him back in Golden to give a bunch of lectures on Jungian psychology (although at least that's optional).

Protagonist: 4 > 5 > 3

Things are probably a little unfairly stacked in Narukami's favor because he has so much extra content outside of the main game. Joker will have his shot to gain ground with the P5 anime though! But for now, Narukami is still the king. The best version of Makoto/Minato/whatever isn't even from the actual game!

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/582/652/b0b.jpg

Party Members: 4 > 5 > 3

The Investigation Team is hard to beat. They're one of my favorite playable casts in any RPG, period. Again, they might have a bit of an unfair advantage because they've had so many bonus things together, but their chemistry is through the roof (and cast chemistry is important to me, as you know). They're just so good together, whether it's in a lighthearted scene in town or a serious scene in a dungeon. They all feel like the best of friends, and it's wonderful to behold. The scenes in the hospital after Heaven are some of the best stuff the series has to offer in terms of chemistry and interaction between your team. It feels like there's more of all of them together in P4 than the other casts in P3 or P5. Part of that is Golden adding a few new events, so maybe P5 will get some new stuff like that whenever Platinum or whatever releases. I like the Phantom Thieves and S.E.E.S. a lot, too. It's cool watching S.E.E.S. grow closer together over the course of the game considering how far apart they start. I also enjoy seeing the Phantom Thieves slowly figure out what exactly they want to be as a unit, especially after certain things threaten to sidetrack and derail them. The Investigation Team sticking together through thick and thin in their pursuit of the truth is still the best though.
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Yeah I've got some differences here to.

Music: 3 > 4 > 5

As I've said before I also felt 5 was a step below the others here, but honestly even 4 is a clear step below 3 imo. P3 just has way too many good songs. Even the ones that aren't quite amazing on their own merits still do a really good job of driving the tone whenever they play. In fairness P4 is also quite good on this last point but it couldn't quite match how much P3's soundtrack brought the world to life for me. Also I'll refrain from the wall of text I want to post on this subject, but I'll just point out (Persona 3 spoilers) the trio of songs that play in the town during the last month of the game. Stuff like that is absolutely the gold standard for what soundtrack music should be doing as I see it.

(Ok that's likely the only one I'll type a lot about)

Town: 4 > 5 > 3

I more or less agree with the things Leon said, but Inaba has dat atmosphere. I do actually rather like the P3 town also, but I don't think I can take it over 4 or 5 when there's so comparatively little to it. Also most of that is probably either nostalgia or due to the music anyways.

Residence: 3 >>> 4 > 5

3 is easily the best here. P4 residence has Nanako and Dojima in it so that's good at least.
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What I really love about Persona 5's battle system, even when compared to something like FFX, is that even though it's turn-based, you're not really going through a menu. I mean, it is a menu, but every button press makes something happen more like an action game. Press x and you attack, press up and you're pulling out your gun. Even when you go into the Persona menu, you press triangle and they scream and do their Jojo pose so it still feels like you're doing something cool.
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School: 4 > 3 > 5

Shujin sucks because there's nothing to do. Which is fine in the bigger picture because that makes sense in the context of the game, but yeah the school itself still doesn't really bring anything to the table.

Protagonist: 3 > 5 > 4

I don't know most of the extra content for these guys and the stuff I do know doesn't really factor into my decision making process.

Party Members:
3 > 5 > 4 as individuals
4 > 3 > 5 as a unit

Honestly all 3 are top tier in this regard though. I think I've talked about why I think P3 does characters better too much already on this board, but if anyone either doesn't remember seeing it or wants to see it again feel free to ask.
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Oh and I'm listening to the P3 soundtrack right now and I forgot one very important thing to say in my blurb about P3 music:

Screw Changing Seasons.
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Now I want to talk a little about the themes of the Persona games, although I don't know if I could properly rank which ones I like better. I've mentioned this before, but one of the things I appreciate about Persona is that it's not afraid to expose the ugly side of human nature and put it on display. Everybody has an ugly side, and it's hard to overcome it. It takes a radical change in each of the party members' lives (namely, awakening to their Personas) for them to break away from what's holding them down. It also marks them as different from the mainstream, and they often find themselves standing opposed to the majority (as well as the malevolent entity who is intent on enforcing the will of the majority). However, it shows the difference even one person can make in the case of the protagonist and his S. Links/Confidants, and a small group of people can change the world if they have the resolve to do so. I think there's a part of us that wants to be like that, and that's the appeal of Persona.

In each game, there's a major struggle between what the party stands for as opposed to what the majority stands for (either actively or passively).

Persona 3: Life vs. Death
Persona 4: Truth vs. Lies
Persona 5: Right vs. Wrong

These themes are all pretty clear because Persona makes it a point to drive these things home repeatedly. For the most part, only the villains are actively in favor of the latter, but the general public tends to be passively in favor of the latter because they do nothing to change themselves or the world around them. They just go along with the flow. Persona 5 probably shows that the most vividly with the slavery/prison imagery. They get complacent and just let the world stay the way it is because that's the way it's always been, so they feel there's really nothing they can do.

The passive side of the coin in Persona 3 is all the Apathy Syndrome stuff. The people aren't actively clamoring for death, naturally, but they're merely existing as opposed to living a purposeful life. Persona 4 has the fog, of course. People start to adopt the "ignorance is bliss" philosophy. The truth can be painful, so you're better off not facing it. Persona 5 is "Might vs. Right" when it comes to the Phantom Thieves and Shido, but the general public eventually stops caring about who's right. They just want someone who seems "capable." It can seem kind of incredulous and appalling to hear some of the stuff the NPCs are saying by the end of the game because it gradually gets worse, and they're exaggerated for effect, but there's a temptation to fit in and go with the flow without even realizing the danger of it.

Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling a bit, but I'm saying that I really like the way Persona handles its themes. Philosophically, I don't always agree with the exact way they handle it, of course, but it's easy for me to identify with the heroes' struggles because they're fighting for things I'd like to think I try to fight for, too. At the same time, it does force you to examine yourself to see if I really am because (at least for me) I tend to think I'm better than I really am at times. Maybe I'm thinking too deeply about a video game, but Persona does make me think, so I like that about it.
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Anyway, that's all I've got for now. If you have anything else you want me to discuss, ask away! Not going to deal with S. Links/Confidant comparisons until I get done with maxing out all the ones I missed last time in P5 though. Not going to rank the party members overall yet either because at the very least, I want to finish Haru's thing first so it'll be a fair ranking for her.
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All right, SNAFU re-watch complete! Really good show with great cast chemistry between the main three characters. It's an interesting examination of human interaction and relationships, too, from a perspective that I can understand and somewhat relate to. We need a season 3 and an English dub.

Oh hey, I can update the rankings two days in a row!

Kurisu > Yukiko > Aqua > Makoto > Mitsuru > Yui > Shiori > Akane > Pepper > Namine > Mikasa > Eureka > Valentine > Vera > Elizabeth > Cora
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oh that's one I've been meaning to watch for a little while. maybe I should get around to it soon.
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So I decided to look at the Persona 5 art book that came with the limited edition now that I've beaten the game, and I came across some game-changing information. Apparently, the braids in Makoto's hair are from a braided hairband, not her actual hair. I was wondering how that worked considering how short her hair is, so it was good to have that cleared up. The short hair is probably Makoto's biggest design flaw because I'm not a fan of short hair on girls, but she makes up for it in other ways.

I actually have the full art books for both Persona 3 and 4, and they're full of interesting information about the characters. Have you ever wondered what color King Moron's socks are? Well, the art book reveals all!
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Huh, I missed this somehow on my first playthrough, but there's a Kanami Mashita poster in the subway area that rotates with the Rise poster. Nice.

(Obligatory reminder that Kanami is great)
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Ha, it's kind of neat in hindsight seeing how they managed to activate the Meta-Nav stuff for Kamoshida's Palace without even realizing it now that I know how it works. They actually used all the correct key words, although the app didn't verbally respond to them this time.

also they tell Sae she only has a short amount of time to interrogate Joker but come on I spent like 80 hours talking to her
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more tired than I thought

passed out for a few hours while playing P5

time to crash some more in bed now
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tight poll

Kurisu has been at the top of my rankings since I rebooted them

can anyone hope to dethrone her?!
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If the SNAFU girls couldn't, doubtful
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I've gotta actually post in my topics

Work has cut into my free time substantially!
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Jeff Zero posted...

Work has cut into my free time substantially!

Yeah same here. Ironically though I think that resulted in me posting on GameFAQ's more, since that is my default escape when I have little free time rather than watching anime for 3 hours or something.
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Haha, makes sense. I've been busy replaying Dragon Age Inquisition, so much so that my Babylon 5 topic on NeoGAF is collecting dust for a couple of weeks because I no longer have time for both!
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yeah you've been slackin' dude
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yeah pyre
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Jeff Zero already got denial mode on full blast in preparation for turning the next year he will soon turn
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I'm looking forward to my 20th anniversary of when I turned 10
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One of the coolest things about the last Persona 5 dungeon is the discovery that the villains are all rebels, just like the main party, and that the masses are even more evil than they are.
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I thought it was cool that Joker is considered to be the most dangerous criminal of all, since the Isolation Cell leads to the Velvet Room.
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More Persona differences~

School: 3 > 4 > 5

Protagonist: 3 > 5 > 4

Party: 3 > 4 > 5

SEES too good.

pyresword posted...

Screw Changing Seasons.

Second school theme, right? i actually like it. come at me.

LeonhartFour posted...

can anyone hope to dethrone her?!

not unless i am allowed to ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of what you play and watch
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xp1337 posted...

not unless i am allowed to ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of what you play and watch

Tali would make a strong run at Kurisu probably

dunno when the next time will be that I do an ME series run though

I'm literally one trophy away from the ME2 Platinum and have been for a couple years now (just lacking the Insanity playthrough)
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leon.

just ask yourself.

what would shine do
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dowolf posted...

leon.

just ask yourself.

what would shine do

and then do the opposite
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Oh hey, dowolf, while you're (maybe) around: Are you playing DGS2 now or are you going to wait a while?
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LeonhartFour posted...

Oh hey, dowolf, while you're (maybe) around: Are you playing DGS2 now or are you going to wait a while?

my copy is literally on my desk.

i am at work.

this situation will be rectified very soon.
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xp1337 posted...

pyresword posted...

Screw Changing Seasons.

Second school theme, right? i actually like it. come at me.

I thought people generally like Changing Seasons! I definitely prefer it to the first school theme.
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Changing Seasons is all right. I think it wears out its welcome pretty quickly.
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...

when i tried to launch the game from the region-free launcher, my system crashed.

I assumed this was a firmware thing, and decided to update my 3ds.

then I find out that ninjhax doesn't work on old3ds 11.5, which means I'm SoL. Maybe I can find a friend who'll let me borrow their new 3ds, and maybe it'll work there, but... Not feeling hopeful.

Also I was stupid enough to search for my name on the Ace Attorney discord. "whoops."
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Yikes, that sucks, on both accounts.
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Yeah. I only went there in the stupid hopes that maybe I could get the translation project people to let me on strictly as a translation checker because my god they need someone who speaks better Japanese (how do you mistranslate a sentence meaning "Live I now this day in twilight's gloom, devoid of any words to say" as "More likely that my phlegm be loose, than to possess any more secrets within my words"?!). They did not, of course -- but while I was waiting, I found a nice random conversation decrying how I put an Undertale reference in my DGS ep2 translation.

so.

that was a fun capstone on the day.
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All right, thankfully I remembered exactly where I left off on my School Rumble re-watch (a few episodes into season 2), so I decided to dive back in. Man, I love this show so much. If you're a fan of shows with big casts, School Rumble has one of my favorite big casts in an anime. So much cast chemistry. Plus, I love all the comedy of errors and misunderstandings, and everything is just so deliciously over the top. Harima might be my favorite male anime character, too. It's pretty close between him, Kyon, Sosuke Sagara, and Spike Spiegel.
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School Rumble has been on my to watch list for like a decade. I really should get around to watching it some time.
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School Rumble is one of the few animes where I've heard people say the dub is better than the subs, particularly for Harima and Tenma. No surprise considering it's got an all-star VA cast. Just about every notable Funimation VA you can think of has a role here since the cast is so large.

Just be warned that the School Rumble anime wasn't properly completed. There was a huge mess and most of the final third of the show got aborted/abridged. Thankfully, as I said earlier, they've resumed localizing the manga last year, and I think only the last two volumes are left. It's kind of amazing they picked it back up considering there was a 6.5 year hiatus.

Surprisingly, Kobayashi drew a couple of new chapters late last year and early this year, but I dunno if we'll get those.
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LeonhartFour posted...

they've resumed localizing the manga last year

Wait what. What. This changes everything.

Shame I spoiled myself on parts of the ending to see whether or not my ship survived, but oh well.
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Also I never saw the dub but Harima was great in the subbed version. I didn't really care for Tenma's voice though I'll admit. On the other hand I also have a lot of trouble imagining being able to top the Japanese voices for Yakumo and Eri (the two most important characters), considering those are two of my favorite vocal performances in basically anything.
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Well, I ended up reading fan translations of the later volumes, but yeah, you can find them all on Amazon. The new volumes (from 17 on) are digital only though.

also School Rumble was not kind to most ships so I hope you lucked out!
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Well, Yakumo is voiced by one of my absolute favorite female VAs in Caitlin Glass. I know Yui Horie is Eri's VA in the Japanese version and that's hard to beat, but her English VA is good, too!
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LeonhartFour posted...

School Rumble was not kind to most ships so I hope you lucked out!

Based on my spotty memory of the Wikipedia plot summary I hit the jackpot. Feels good, especially if now I can actually read the ending.
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Yeah...Yui Horie is my favorite VA, and this is probably my favorite performance of hers honestly.
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I have mixed feelings about how School Rumble ended, although I think just about everyone does. I think I basically accept that what ended up happening was probably the best match (or at least what was teased to have happened because who knows), but it's not particularly satisfying the way it's presented regardless.

but man do the battling ships in School Rumble really hate each other

just did a quick search looking for scans of these new chapters and the war is still waging as fervently as ever
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