Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: You're Shivering, Are You Afraid?

(+) Yeah! (+)

yeah I know that feeling. I get way more frustrated when I set up lethal on board against an insane deck against all odds, then they topdeck the 10th bullshit answer of the game... as compared to when I just get rolled over from turns 1 to 8 and lose without a hope.
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skullbone posted...

I also had a full board lose to brawl but nobody else seems to care about how stupid that card is. Every time I see someone mention removing ice block or innervate and not brawl I die a little inside. Control warriors are seriously built around that card the same way that mage is built around ice block but it's "balanced" because the warrior doesn't get to pick who lives. It's stupid.

That's because board clears in Hearthstone are really bad and we could probably do with a few more that are on the power level of Brawl and aren't two-card combos.

The RNG in it is dumb. But you probably can't get rid of it without making the card either busted or garbage.
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Super crazy value cards killed Control Warrior so nobody really cares anymore
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VeryInsane posted...

Super crazy value cards killed Control Warrior so nobody really cares anymore

Which cards are you talking about?
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N'zoth, Kazakus, Jaraxxus, strong deathrattles, the crazy hero power stuff from Warrior Quest and Death Knights. Basically anything that forces them to have to Brawl twice and still have stuff to kill them with before the Warrior can.
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Jade Idol, for one. And Jades in general

But even discover cards, Death Knights, Quests etc really hurt it.
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Warlock has an unconditional board clear and it costs 8 mana. Warrior leaves 1 minion alive (sometimes to his BENEFIT) and it only costs 5 mana. Brawl is removal and if one of his minions survives, or if he has a weapon charge left over from the turn before to clear it, it's ALSO tempo. And he still has 5 mana to play another minion!

I think that if any deck needs a single card to stay competitive then it's bad design.
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Hey Medivh gives 8 mana Nether a boost tbh

Speaking of cards that hurt Control Warrior!

(Also Brawl doesn't help on boards that are tall and not wide)
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Devolve is way cheaper than Brawl and although it's not technically a full clear, it doesn't touch your board either

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPguoeYTvMI
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I was just watching a video of amaz and hafu coordinating on an arena run, and amaz said "each potion [of madness] is 6 wins"

Obviously he's exaggerating, but that still says a lot that he views it that way, given how much he plays priest.
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skullbone posted...

Warlock has an unconditional board clear and it costs 8 mana. Warrior leaves 1 minion alive (sometimes to his BENEFIT) and it only costs 5 mana. Brawl is removal and if one of his minions survives, or if he has a weapon charge left over from the turn before to clear it, it's ALSO tempo. And he still has 5 mana to play another minion!

I think that if any deck needs a single card to stay competitive then it's bad design.

I don't think that's a good takeaway. Maybe for threats, but I think it's important for answers decks to have good answers. You'd rather have to play a bunch of bad cards instead of one good one?

My point was that Nether is pretty overcosted for the effect. But it's still a good effect in a class with an OP hero power so you play it.
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Taunt Warrior has been performing well for me. Slower meta is nice.

I crafted Velen and put together a highlander priest. This is the deck I've been waiting for my whole Hearthstone career. I feel so deliciously evil hero powering my opponents' face for a bajillion while they can only watch me voidform over and over.

Arena #11
I was Offered: Rogue/Shaman/Priest
I Picked: Rogue


The Draft: While drafting I saw that Vanish had a tier score of literally 11. This makes it even more frustrating that some random rogue had it during that one bullshit game I recounted yesterday. I mean, why would anyone even pick this card. Augh. Overall I got a much nicer curve than my last few drafts. I really focused on picking 2 and 3 drops even from early on in the draft. I got a bit unlucky with 3 drops and didn't end up offered as many as I wanted early on. My late game suffered a bit as a result but my overall deck quality is not much lower than a typical draft right now. We'll see how this experiment goes. Some good combos I picked up... Fire Plume Phoenix (4) into Servant of Kalimos (5). Two copies of the servant, so high potential to get it to go off. Also I got 2 tuskarr Fishermen and 2 Fan of Knives. That means there is some potential to fire off 2 damage Fan of Knives on turn 3/4/5 with some consistency!

Game 1: Vs Priest. I went Second. Good opening hand. My 1 drop answered his 1 drop perfectly, putting me off to a good start. I have backstab to shut down his 2 drop. By turn 8 he has still failed to get any board presence and I just completely flatten him. Win.

Game 2: Vs Priest. I went First. He plays Kazakus right on 4. Kazakus being a synergy card is really fun and good for the meta. He just floods the board with minions and heals them to produce infinite value with his hero power. As if it wasn't already impossible to play around an insanely high value Kazakus potion. Look forward to seeing this card 100 more times in the current arena meta till they fix this god awful synergy pool. Loss.

Game 3: Vs Shaman. I went Second. Had a bad opener with too many removal tools and not enough minions, making it impossible to push tempo. He has Stormforged Axe. Weapons on curve are essentially arena hell. No idea how I will have any hope of getting on the board with this in play. Instead of drawing the minions I need I just draw more removal spells. I only have like 4 in the deck and I'm holding all of them now. At the very least I'm able to use Sap to keep him off the board, but I still feel like I've already fallen behind by turn 4. He has bonemare on 7, possibly the worst situation I can possibly go up against having spent all of my removal. I have to take 7 damage to the face to get rid of the taunted minion without losing tempo. He had Argent Commander and Lightning Bolt for out of hand burst damage to completely flip the board on the following turn. I answer with a big taunt and basically have to hope he doesn't have any hard removal for however long it takes me to regain control of the board. He has Spellbreaker. He also has even more damage from hand, making it not even matter. Loss.
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What a great arena run this has been.

Game 4: Vs Mage. I went Second. Arcanologist on 2. Draws a secret. I'm more or less fucked. I make a fairly bad play and dump all of my spells. Although this play kinda sucks, it's the best possible way to play around the fact that he may be holding counterspell right now. Essentially, if he is, it no longer matters. I have no more spells I need to cast. And I did use those resources to keep him off the board. Black Knight on turn 7 to kill my incredibly important taunt. Deathspeaker on 8 to keep his already insurmountable board advantage intact. The guy has twice as many cards as me anyway because his deck quality is leagues better. He does play the secret later. I was mana bind, not counterspell, but my read was still fairly good. He ends the game with 30 life, 6 armor, twice as many cards as me. Loss.

Easily the worst arena experience so far this expansion. Really highlights just how terrible the RNG of who you get matched up against is. Every single opponent I faced was just really lucky with really high quality decks and there was essentially nothing I could do. Even the first opponent I faced clearly also had a high quality deck and just got unfortunate in matching up against and losing to me on his first game. I'm sure he would then go on to pummel a bunch of unlucky scrubs with average decks at 0-1, etc. just further highlighting the insane variance and the huge problem with the current deck variance and how it affects matchmaking so radically.

Final Result: 1-3

1 pack, 30 gold

This could not have been more bullshit if an actual, literal bull had crashed down my door and shit all over my room.
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Arena #12
I was Offered: Warrior/Paladin/Shaman
I Picked: Paladin

Well, uh, that was an easy choice. I've been waiting like 6 drafts for them to offer me Paladin even a single time. And it's not like I was going to pick one of the bottom tier classes anyway. But, jeez, finally. I was starting to think my client might be bugged or something.

The Draft: Get mediocre synergy picks for the billionth time, and find myself contemplating just quitting this game until they fix the god damn synergy pool aka remove it entirely and never try to implement such a bad idea ever again. Had to pick between Flappy Bird and Spikeridged Steed. Feels so bad. Picked up Soggoth and Truesilver later on in the draft. Nice. Since my strategy last time of intentionally picking 2/3 drops did not work since the game did not even offer me any 3 drops anyway, I decided this time to just draft the highest quality cards and then try to smooth out my curve at the very end as best as possible. Was offered one set of really, really bad cards. This seems to just be standard for arena though, at least for me. I know some people can draft medivh, frost lich jaina, and tons of removal spells. But I almost always have 1-3 dead cards in my deck at minimum.

Game 1: Vs Mage. I went Second. Drew a solid opening curve, though. Like most mage decks I play against he has insane elemental synergy, tons of removal, and perfect plays on curve every step of the way. Bonemare on 7. Is literally everyone other than me drafting this in all of their decks right now. Firelands portal for lethal. Loss.

I'm really starting to get pissed off at how many times I've been thrown into completely unwinnable meat grinders at 0-0 lately. This is like the recent arena promotion where every run started at 1-0. Except, instead, every run I'm starting off at 0-1 or 0-2 even because some unlucky asshole is sitting at 0-1 with a 12 win deck because he was also matched up against Ben Brode Jr on game 1 of his draft. Fuck.

Game 2: Vs Warlock. I went First. Shaky opener, but not too bad. He wasted a corrupting mist on turn 2 just to kill a few silver hand recruits. Well alright then. At least there's always the chance to get a few free wins off of bad players. He manages to stall me out with some midgame taunts. This leaves him with a weak board presence however and I simply play out a few snowbally midgame minions and hope at least one sticks. Um, nope. He had Defile. Oh well. Bog Creeper created by Stonehill Defender. Now I'm remembering what actually happens when you play against bad players. Hint: It involves RNG. Loss.

Game 3: Vs Rogue. I went Second. Curve out terribly with no turn 3 or turn 4 play. Exactly what you want to happen while going against tempo rogue. I play as clever as possible but he has lots of high quality cards that are difficult to answer cleanly. Corpse Raiser on Giant Mastodon. Sprint to reload his hand immediately after. Medivh. This absolute moron drafted 2 counterfeit coins and somehow he was still able to get an insane deck. Was he just offered 3 good choices almost every single pick of the draft or something. I topdeck the only 1 drop remaining in my deck. Loss.

Final Result: 0-3

Apparently this is what a tier 1 class is capable of.

Remind me to never play arena during the late night hours ever again, because apparently it's fucking insane.

my average wins just went down an entire point from those two consecutive runs
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https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-59/

56 and 54 percent winrates for Aggro Token and Jade, huh

Druidstone begins
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So, who all's going to unlock Arthas?
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I would LIKE to unlock him
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Messing around against Arthas with a terrible Keleseth zoolock I had lying around, and I got a Rattling Rascal from a Skeletal Knight. It bugged out immediately.

http://prntscr.com/gcmf0f

Edit: One turn later Arthas used Obliterate on it and the game locked. >_>
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"You automatically lose unless you look up the answer" is such stupid game design.

I was expecting the lich king fight to be shit and even I am surprised by how terrible it is. Blizzard will always go lower than you expect.

What a strange card to lock the game up with.

UltiXX posted...

"You automatically lose unless you look up the answer" is such stupid game design.

I was expecting the lich king fight to be shit and even I am surprised by how terrible it is. Blizzard will always go lower than you expect.

Which class needs you to look anything up? I didn't plan on doing so unless I was completely stumped. I've only finished Priest so far and outside of taking way too long because I was stubbornly trying to win with an Inner Fire deck at first, it was easy. Played Mage once or twice and that's a rough opening, but I'm not sure what he follows it up with later on.

Outside of the opening salvo unique to each class, does he play the same and run the same cards?
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Ulti why do you play this game you obviously hate
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Oh god, you have to win with every class? I just finished it with a jade druid deck and thought I was good to go. (Incidentally, he handed me the win. I would have died to the freeze the next turn, and he blizzarded my army, but then for some inexplicable reason he killed Aya, and I got a lone 15/15 to kill him with.)
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Only one that seems annoying to me is Paladin, tbh.
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Camden posted...

What a strange card to lock the game up with.

UltiXX posted...

"You automatically lose unless you look up the answer" is such stupid game design.

I was expecting the lich king fight to be shit and even I am surprised by how terrible it is. Blizzard will always go lower than you expect.

Which class needs you to look anything up? I didn't plan on doing so unless I was completely stumped. I've only finished Priest so far and outside of taking way too long because I was stubbornly trying to win with an Inner Fire deck at first, it was easy. Played Mage once or twice and that's a rough opening, but I'm not sure what he follows it up with later on.

Outside of the opening salvo unique to each class, does he play the same and run the same cards?

Probably the same cards, but the opening spell is different for everybody.

So if you decide to try Miracle Rogue and your spells all get nuked, you have to make something else. Forced FAQing is a garbage design decision.

it's a challenge. A puzzle.

That you want the reward without solving the puzzle is your problem, not the game's.
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UltiXX posted...

Camden posted...

What a strange card to lock the game up with.

UltiXX posted...

"You automatically lose unless you look up the answer" is such stupid game design.

I was expecting the lich king fight to be shit and even I am surprised by how terrible it is. Blizzard will always go lower than you expect.

Which class needs you to look anything up? I didn't plan on doing so unless I was completely stumped. I've only finished Priest so far and outside of taking way too long because I was stubbornly trying to win with an Inner Fire deck at first, it was easy. Played Mage once or twice and that's a rough opening, but I'm not sure what he follows it up with later on.

Outside of the opening salvo unique to each class, does he play the same and run the same cards?

Probably the same cards, but the opening spell is different for everybody.

So if you decide to try Miracle Rogue and your spells all get nuked, you have to make something else. Forced FAQing is a garbage design decision.

How is it forced FAQing though? You play as a class, you see what the unique gimmick against that class is, you build a deck to deal with it.

Decided to go after him as Priest first, found that gimmick pretty amusing. Ended up using the same deck I did against Sindragosa, though I never actually got to use Inner Fire on my chosen minion thanks to Obliterate. Had my minion at 39 health at that point and had just ended the Frostmourne phase, so there wasn't much left to do at that point.
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4 down. Druid/Warlock/Priest/Shaman.

Getting there!
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Does he always play the sword that summons the 2/6 horde on turn 7 for every class?
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Camden posted...

Does he always play the sword that summons the 2/6 horde on turn 7 for every class?

Yep.

And you can't blow up the sword or use Mindbreaker to disable his hero power afterwards. People will still pretend Blizzard isn't a trash company.

dowolf posted...

it's a challenge. A puzzle.

That you want the reward without solving the puzzle is your problem, not the game's.

See?

Blizzard could wrap up turds in boxes and people would defend it.

I have no problem with the sword, or it being immune to removal, or even the ensuing hero power. Just kind of wish it was a little different for each class.
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It can be devolve'd
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Ulti a free, optional, adventure mode doesn't really seem like the thing you should be complaining about. God forbid you actually have to put some thought into a challenge.
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I have an idea for the next topic title maybe
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Rogue done

Hunter may be a bit trickier with no Deathstalker, huh
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I'm trying to cheat out Counterspell on turn one with only a single copy of Counterspell. Not working so well, and I'm not about to spend dust on this.
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VeryInsane posted...

It can be devolve'd

I knew that already but shaman usually dies by then.

Camden posted...

I'm trying to cheat out Counterspell on turn one with only a single copy of Counterspell. Not working so well, and I'm not about to spend dust on this.

oh god that's brilliant.

Please tell us if that works :)
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Cheating out a counterspell and running freeze/quest mage seema fun there. I just have to draw everything.

dowolf posted...

Camden posted...

I'm trying to cheat out Counterspell on turn one with only a single copy of Counterspell. Not working so well, and I'm not about to spend dust on this.

oh god that's brilliant.

Please tell us if that works :)

He even comments on it when you get it to work. "How did that make it past QA?!"
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I tried priest first against lich king and i won on my first attempt.

So i switched to warrior next. Im.about 10 attempts in with not much to show for it.

There is apparently an exploit with kel'thuzad that works pretty well, but i dusted him after he rotated out of standard and im not dropping 1600 dust for the adventure.

Any advice?

Im thinking maybe i should try bolster with cheap taunts and just reload the fight until i get a strong opening hand?

Or somehow find another safe way to stall him with one 2/6 remaining which is what the KT method does.

Im really not sure though. I felt so confident after 1shotting him with priest that I was NOT PREPARED for 100 armor for 1 mana.
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I won my arena game by top decking deathwing at the perfect time.

This is that feeling, apparently.
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Beat the Lich King once easily enough with EZ breezy beautiful jade druid

The other classes might be a bit tougher
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Not running quest, just trying to force the regular combo out. Trying to get Lackey/Counter in your opening hand along with the quest was proving near impossible, and dumping the quest wasn't working either. The list I'm using just hopes Antonidas survives a turn. In my last game I played Antonidas after Obliterate with a Frost Nova, with four Sorcerers ready to go. Assumed I was safe until he freezes Antonidas and plays Shatter.

He runs Shatter, damn...
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not sure I have the cards needed to beat lich king with all the classes
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Entirely possible. A couple of months ago I finally went back and finished up the heroic bosses because I didn't think I could have done so earlier.
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Currently 10-1 with a druid.

Spreading plague and nourish are good cards.
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Finished Mage, I was an idiot. I'm used to running Quest Mage so I naturally had Arcanologist in my deck. Problem was I only had a single Counterspell that I was hard mulliganing for so they were just vanilla 2/3s. Removed them from the deck, added an Ice Barrier and Duplicate in and won on my first go when I Duplicated Antonidas after the Obliterate.

Deck would clearly be better just removing Duplicate for the second Counterspell straight up.

### Custom Mage
# Class: Mage
# Format: Wild
#
# 2x (1) Kabal Lackey
# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
# 2x (2) Doomsayer
# 2x (2) Loot Hoarder
# 2x (2) Novice Engineer
# 2x (2) Primordial Glyph
# 2x (2) Sorcerer's Apprentice
# 2x (3) Acolyte of Pain
# 2x (3) Arcane Intellect
# 2x (3) Coldlight Oracle
# 1x (3) Counterspell
# 1x (3) Duplicate
# 2x (3) Frost Nova
# 1x (3) Ice Barrier
# 1x (3) Simulacrum
# 2x (4) Molten Reflection
# 2x (6) Blizzard
# 1x (7) Archmage Antonidas
#
AAEBAY0WBnHtBO0FuAiJDrnRAgyKAfsBnALJA6sEywTmBPgH+wzrugKYxALaxQIA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
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