Board 8 > Is punching a Nazi as bad as being a Nazi?

(+) Yeah! (+)

First they came for the nazis, and I did not speak out, because I was not a nazi.

Then they stopped, because all the nazis were gone.
---

nobody gave a shit about these dumb nazis ratting around in the dark until the media decided to cast a light on them. we should have just let them die quietly. luckily 99.9% of people still hate nazis so even this desperate attempt to make them relevant is pretty pointless, aside from just making people feel good about declaring that nazis are bad. something we've only known for, oh, I dunno, about 80 years.
---

Yeah I mean Antifa were causing violence and planning to kill people long before Nazis were even on the table so
---

Not_an_Owl posted...

First they came for the nazis, and I did not speak out, because I was not a nazi.

Then they stopped, because all the nazis were gone.

I mean it's funny but really naive. A lot of people would put bullets in people for a lot less than that.
---

What I'm really getting here is more people need to read Rurouni Kenshin or Trigun.
---

I don't know if Vash the Stampede should be the role model we all aspire to be.
---

you don't punch a nazi for the same reason you don't punch a dog, prisoner, or child.

Punching people doesn't teach them anything, it just makes the puncher more violent.
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

you don't punch a nazi for the same reason you don't punch a dog, prisoner, or child.

Punching people doesn't teach them anything, it just makes the puncher more violent.

very few are actually going to punch a nazi. there's just a lot of people capitalizing on the endorphin rush you get from declaring what a good person you are and how you'd totally punch a nazi. when, in reality, you're exceptionally unlikely to ever meet one in real life. it's essentially a statement you never have to back up, but it gives immediate 'feel good' returns.
---

furthermore trying to argue against the idea that you should punch a nazi is pretty pointless anyway. most of the people who are saying it are actually good but just misguided people. they think because THEY wouldn't ever commit violence against anyone who didn't deserve it, that no one would ever do that. basically they are projecting their own sense of decency onto others. the argument that punching nazis doesn't stop at punching nazis but could lead to punching others is lost on them. it's not something they would do, and they can't really conceive of the idea properly. to them it just looks like you're defending nazis.

now I personally wouldn't punch someone just for having thoughts that I didn't like, but I'm also not in the business of telling other people what is moral or good. if you want to go around punching others then go right ahead. I don't give a shit, really.
---

MariaTaylor posted...

very few are actually going to punch a nazi. there's just a lot of people capitalizing on the endorphin rush you get from declaring what a good person you are and how you'd totally punch a nazi. when, in reality, you're exceptionally unlikely to ever meet on one real life. it's essentially a statement you never have to back up, but it gives immediate 'feel good' returns.

Damn. Hadn't really thought of it that way.
---

MZero11 posted...

Going to need more details to make a judgement. If the Nazi is all talk and hasn't actually acted than it's worse. If the Nazi is actively hurting people then it's not as bad. Also depends who swung first and how hard of a punch

pjbasis posted...

Not_an_Owl posted...

First they came for the nazis, and I did not speak out, because I was not a nazi.

Then they stopped, because all the nazis were gone.

I mean it's funny but really naive. A lot of people would put bullets in people for a lot less than that.

It's not just naive... It's utter insanity.

THIS is the mentality of the wannabe nazi-punchers:

---

ExThaNemesis posted...

Damn. Hadn't really thought of it that way.

there's 300+ million people in America and like a few thousand nazis. everyone hates these assholes. they'd get stomped in 2 seconds flat if they attempted anything. this is essentially just a few elephants in the herd posturing against an ant colony.
---

I'd definitely punch a nazi, though. Self-identified nazi who says "yes I am a nazi and yes I want to murder all the jews" then yes I would punch that person.
---

MariaTaylor posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

Damn. Hadn't really thought of it that way.

there's 300+ million people in America and like a few thousand nazis. everyone hates these assholes. they'd get stomped in 2 seconds flat if they attempted anything. this is essentially just a few elephants in the herd posturing against an ant colony.

Yet they continue to murder and assault people.

I'm yet to see these "nazis" in the US. It's just a media strawman to push people further to the left. But it won't work because we have the internet and old media's power is diminishing fast. They call Bannon a nazi and he's been an Israel shill for years. Having conservative opinions does not make you a nazi. Showing up to protect confederate statues does not make you a nazi.

---

Skyridge87 posted...

Yet they continue to murder and assault people.

wow you really have a hard time breaking out of the us vs them mentality huh
---

TheRock1525 posted...

I'd definitely punch a nazi, though. Self-identified nazi who says "yes I am a nazi and yes I want to murder all the jews" then yes I would punch that person.

Skyridge87 posted...

Yet they continue to murder and assault people.

MariaTaylor posted...

if you want to go around punching others then go right ahead. I don't give a shit, really.

---

Vlado posted...

I'm yet to see these "nazis" in the US. It's just a media strawman. They call Bannon a nazi and he's been an Israel shill for years. Having conservative opinions does not make you a nazi. Showing up to protect confederate statues does not make you a nazi.

It does when you literally call yourself a fucking Nazi, Vlado, just stop talking about American politics when you don't even pay attention.
---

Vlado posted...

I'm yet to see these "nazis" in the US.

Uh, people were literally carrying around swastikas in Charlottesville.

Are you just stupid?
---

Vlado posted...

I'm yet to see these "nazis" in the US. It's just a media strawman. They call Bannon a nazi and he's been an Israel shill for years. Having conservative opinions does not make you a nazi. Showing up to protect confederate statues does not make you a nazi.

These people are fucking nazis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg

The statue was a pretext, not the real reason for their gathering.
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

Skyridge87 posted...

Yet they continue to murder and assault people.

wow you really have a hard time breaking out of the us vs them mentality huh

Is there something wrong with making Nazis and non-Nazis an "us vs. them" situation?

Hell, I'm not even saying we should make nazi-punching legal.

I'm just saying I have absolutely no problem taking the moral stance of "nazis suck and I will punch them."
---

Skyridge87 posted...

Is there something wrong with making Nazis and non-Nazis an "us vs. them" situation?

"no but MY us vs them is different!"
---

SantaRPidgey posted...

Skyridge87 posted...

Is there something wrong with making Nazis and non-Nazis an "us vs. them" situation?

"no but MY us vs them is different!"

How isn't it? Nazis are a completely unique concept to political discourse that's literally built around the idea of "kill these groups." Which they've done before incredibly well.

Why does everyone assume that "punching self-identified nazis" will jump to "punch conservatives you disagree with"? Like isn't this the most ridiculous slippery slope of all time?
---

There will always be the odd 5 people in a crowd of 500 who carry a swastika. To say all 500 were nazis is propaganda of Soviet proportions.
---

Vlado posted...

There will always be the odd 5 people in a crowd of 500 who carry a swastika. To say all 500 were nazis is propaganda of Soviet proportions.

pretty sure i could pull a random group of 500 people and not find 5 carrying swastikas, actually
---

pragmatically - the recent backlash shows that it's way worse to be a nazi. having too many or too eager punchers can be counterproductive to the goal of suppressing nazis, though. it's probably best to have a large vanguard of nonviolent opposition together with relatively few punchers, few enough that the majority can plausibly claim punching doesn't happen very much, the punchers are not representative, etc. but still enough to be intimidating and possibly provoke a violent response from the nazis (which is basically the jackpot)

morally - i don't subscribe to moral realism so that's a vacuous 'yes' i guess
---

Vlado posted...

There will always be the odd 5 people in a crowd of 500 who carry a swastika.

You do realize it was a lot more than 1% of the crowd, right?

Once again, are you just stupid?
---

Vlado posted...

There will always be the odd 5 people in a crowd of 500 who carry a swastika. To say all 500 were nazis is propaganda of Soviet proportions.

They were literally fucking chanting "blood and soil" and "Jews will not replace us." If you're a "very fine person" who happened to show up because you just really care about statues of Confederate generals you would have seen the nazis, released this was not the gathering you thought it was, and went home. Everyone there was a nazi, a white supremacist, or was totally okay with being in their company.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

SantaRPidgey posted...

Skyridge87 posted...

Is there something wrong with making Nazis and non-Nazis an "us vs. them" situation?

"no but MY us vs them is different!"

Nazis are a completely unique concept to political discourse that's literally built around the idea of "kill these groups." Which they've done before incredibly well.

The same goes for communists, i.e. antifa and their supporters, i.e. you.
---

haven't read this topic because i hate this boards opinions

but fighting nazis is heroic and positive

being passive towards nazis is expected for people who aren't being threatened, but still disappointing and bad

being a nazi is utterly shameful and disgusting

TheRock1525 posted...

SantaRPidgey posted...

Skyridge87 posted...

Is there something wrong with making Nazis and non-Nazis an "us vs. them" situation?

"no but MY us vs them is different!"

Nazis are a completely unique concept to political discourse that's literally built around the idea of "kill these groups." Which they've done before incredibly well.

The same goes for communists, i.e. antifa and their supporters, i.e. you.
LordoftheMorons posted...

Vlado posted...

There will always be the odd 5 people in a crowd of 500 who carry a swastika. To say all 500 were nazis is propaganda of Soviet proportions.

or was totally okay with being in their company.

And that makes them nazis? LMAO
---

Vlado posted...

The same goes for communists, i.e. antifa and their supporters, i.e. you.

Communists don't advocate killing groups.
Antifa stands for anti-facism, they combat facism.

Literally neither of them say "kill all the _____".
---

velocycloraptor posted...

but fighting nazis is heroic and positive

nah man all those WWII vets are pieces of shit for wanting to silence those poor defenseless nazis
---

Vlado posted...

And that makes them nazis? LMAO

Spoilers: there actually wasn't anyone in that group
They
were
all
nazis
---

Are you serious? Read some Soviet/Eastern bloc history and educate yourself on communism and its murders.

If you're going to equate a neckbeard carrying a swastika to WW2 nazis, I'm right to do the same.
---

Vlado posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

Vlado posted...

There will always be the odd 5 people in a crowd of 500 who carry a swastika. To say all 500 were nazis is propaganda of Soviet proportions.

or was totally okay with being in their company.

And that makes them nazis? LMAO

If you are in the company of white supremacists and are not actively repudiating their views, you are either a white supremacist yourself or tacitly supporting those views.

I don't know why this is a hard concept to grasp.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

Vlado posted...

The same goes for communists, i.e. antifa and their supporters, i.e. you.

Communists don't advocate killing groups.
Antifa stands for anti-facism, they combat facism.

Literally neither of them say "kill all the _____".

Being perfectly fair, at least some of Antifa probably would want to kill all the fascists.
---

Vlado posted...

Are you serious? Read some Soviet/Eastern bloc history and educate yourself on communism and its murders.

Using communism for murder = communists are murders.

Nazism is founded on the idea that white people are the greatest and all other races need to be killed.
---

Not_an_Owl posted...

Vlado posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

Vlado posted...

There will always be the odd 5 people in a crowd of 500 who carry a swastika. To say all 500 were nazis is propaganda of Soviet proportions.

or was totally okay with being in their company.

And that makes them nazis? LMAO

If you are in the company of white supremacists and are not actively repudiating their views, you are either a white supremacist yourself or tacitly supporting those views.

I don't know why this is a hard concept to grasp.

OK. All the counter-protesters are communists then. See? I can make false equivalences, too.
---

I find it hard to believe there are actual nazis running around. Call me naive. A moron like Richard Spencer calling himself a nazi means little. It's not like he himself was gassing people, and he just does it to be a jackass and troll people. What's actually going on is the Saul Alinsky tactic of labeling one's opposition. The left's entire platform is "everyone I don't like is literally Hitler", which is laughably stupid and very intellectually dishonest.

Random unrelated historical fact: 100,000 Jews served in Hitler's army. It's totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but I found it interesting (in a horrifying way) that Jews would be willing to round up their own people.

Vlado posted...

OK. All the counter-protesters are communists then. See? I can make false equivalences, too.

Were the counterprotesters actively espousing communist ideology? Was their presence at the event advertised as a communist demonstration?
---

TheRock1525 posted...

Vlado posted...

Are you serious? Read some Soviet/Eastern bloc history and educate yourself on communism and its murders.

Using communism for murder = communists are murders.

Nazism is founded on the idea that white people are the greatest and all other races need to be killed.

I don't know why I bother with such indoctrinated people. Communism not in any way better, and has statistically murdered more people.

But these facts won't change your delusions, so peace out.
---

some of the counter protesters were absolutely communist and a lot of them were socialists

thing is there is nothing wrong with being a communist or a socialist and a hell of a lot wrong with being a nazi

I don't know why I argue with Vlado when he is literally the most ignorant person to US politics on this board.
---

UltiXX posted...

I find it hard to believe there are actual nazis running around. Call me naive. A moron like Richard Spencer calling himself a nazi means little. It's not like he himself was gassing people, and he just does it to be a jackass and troll people. What's actually going on is the Saul Alinsky tactic of labeling one's opposition. The left's entire platform is "everyone I don't like is literally Hitler", which is laughably stupid and very intellectually dishonest.

Random unrelated historical fact: 100,000 Jews served in Hitler's army. It's totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but I found it interesting (in a horrifying way) that Jews would be willing to round up their own people.

Please watch the 20 minute Vice documentary
While they are pathetic, they can't afford to be dismissed as a joke.
---

Vlado, the question isn't whether or not communism or fascism kills more people. GOVERNMENT has killed more people than anyone in history. It's all the same.

Vlado posted...

Communism not in any way better, and has statistically murdered more people.

Communism didn't murder anyone. People abusing communism murdered people.

Nazism is founded on the idea of "hey murder these people, they're destroying the planet."
---

UltiXX posted...

Reminder that this guy literally got accepted to Berkeley, but he still buys into a known media hoax. It shows you what actually gets taught in these leftist colleges.

Literally every class I've taken at Berkeley has been a physics class

And no, the fact that it was a nazi/white supremacist march is not a "media hoax."
---

velocycloraptor posted...

some of the counter protesters were absolutely communist and a lot of them were socialists

thing is there is nothing wrong with being a communist or a socialist and a hell of a lot wrong with being a nazi

I feel like this is kinda lost on people. Communism and socialism are just arguments about how society should work, vs. right wing ideas like free market and capitalism. And people got killed in the name of those things all the time yet no one seems to piss and moan as much about them.

Nazism is literally the idea of "this race is better than that race, therefore that race should die."
---