Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 417: The Abominable Strowman

(+) Yeah! (+)

Can I also say that I have this begrudging respect for Mahal's reign over, say, Rollins because while both play chicken-shit heels, Mahal's makes so much more sense because how he retains isn't via stupid flukes?
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TheRock1525 posted...

Glad to know what is and isn't allowed for discussion in the All Purpose Wrestling Topic.

You're free to discuss what you want-- but as the king of talking about minor points, if something was "a tiny bit" important to me I'd probably gloss over it.
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I apologize for arguing over something tiny, but I felt the need to defend myself a little bit when it's like "You're sexist" over something that's being misrepresented/misunderstood to begin with.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Can I also say that I have this begrudging respect for Mahal's reign over, say, Rollins because while both play chicken-shit heels, Mahal's makes so much more sense because how he retains isn't via stupid flukes?

I agree with this.

Despite still being a chicken-shit heel, Mahal feels like more of a star, somehow.
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https://twitter.com/heathslateromrb/status/899445644301148160
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TheRock1525 posted...

Lopen posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

It's not. I literally said it's a tiny bit.
You agreed it's a tiny bit.

If it's a tiny bit I probably wouldn't be posting it to begin with.

I definitely wouldn't be arguing about it for 20 posts.

But that's just me.

Glad to know what is and isn't allowed for discussion in the All Purpose Wrestling Topic.

liberal containment topic exists for a reason
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StealThisSheen posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Because saying "at least" doesn't imply perk, it implies that her other short-comings are overcome by this one attribute. Once again, if say you described a match as "at least ____ won" it would readily imply that the match itself was shit.

While I'm done with the discussion itself, these two things kinda... Contradict each other? In the first part, you're saying "at least" implies one thing overcomes all the other short-comings. In your example, "at least ____ won" is saying ____ winning is the only good part about the match, and that it's acknowledged that the rest was shit. Like, your own semantics aren't even matching up, which is why I think our disagreement is happening. >_>

How do these contradict at all?

"At least she's hot" implies the wrestler's shortcomings don't matter.
"At least _____ won" implies the match's shortcomings don't matter.

The second one certainly doesn't have to imply that at all

If I say "Ugh, that match was shit, but atleast Heath won," I'm not saying "Heath won so it doesn't matter that the match is shit." I'm saying "The only good part was Heath winning" or "The match was shit, but Heath winning was a plus."

And thus, the first one doesn't have to imply that, either.

I'm not following what you're saying at all.
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StealThisSheen posted...

I apologize for arguing over something tiny, but I felt the need to defend myself a little bit when it's like "You're sexist" over something that's being misrepresented/misunderstood to begin with.

No I understand your side of the argument completely. I certainly wouldn't want to be called sexist for saying something similar.

Anyway, to continue rambling about Alexa, some examples of what I mean, just from tonight.

She stepped on Sasha to get to the corner to do her stupid flip move.
She steps on Sasha's hair to do a hair pulling thing.
Insult to Injury is like, the best trademark move ever.
When she gets slammed she like flops around like a fish every time because she's small and that's what she should do.

Point is Alexa is good-- it feels weird to be a guy who's really defending her since I initially hated her because well she doesn't look like a wrestler and her actual in ring work isn't that good at face value (ALSO BECAUSE SHE ISN'T HOT COME AT ME ROCK)-- but she's very good at playing to what she can credibly do and playing it in character. It's like the opposite of AJ Lee, who looked similarly harmless and proceeded to have the worst moveset possible considering her persona (which was also a terrible fit even in promos) and stature.

Becky... does a bunch of suplexes, and an armbar. Okay? Cool. They look cool. Why doesn't she have very much offense that actually goes after the arm though? What about her character makes suplexes something she should excel at? I can't recall a single thing about her matches that draws me into her character. Yelling FIYAHHHH before that one move she does isn't good enough.

Alright I'm done with this time to go watch that NXT show and tell you why Ember Moon is better than Becky Lynch.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Like her first feud was with Alexa Bliss, and I think I've made my feelings pretty clear on her ring work.

Come on now

She's not one of the best 5 female wrestlers in WWE but she's not that bad. She's serviceable for a WWE match, which takes some amount of skill.
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I have never walked away from an Alexa Bliss match going "that was a good match."

Serviceable sounds about right for her, which is kind of a problem when she's routinely carrying a brand's top title. When people like Sasha, Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Natalya, Naomi, Emma and hell even Alicia Fox are better workers, and that's not including someone like Nikki Bella (who's basically part time), I find it a tad bit annoying they're always finding ways to stick the title on her.

She has more in common with the Baron Corbin's of the WWE than any of the people I listed.
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Except Baron Corbin is pretty boring and has no character, and Alexa Bliss is absolutely stellar on the mic and in her character. That's where she succeeds, and it gets her over. What's more important, having good matches and not getting over or getting over and having just serviceable matches? I'd say getting over.

Also, let's not get ahead of ourselves and say that Alicia Fox is a better worker... that may be taking a hyperbole a bit too far.
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TheRock1525 posted...

I'm not following what you're saying at all.

What you're saying is that if somebody says "Atleast Heath Slater won," they're saying that nothing else matters because Heath Slater won. That no matter how bad the match was, how short, how convoluted, whatever... They like it because Heath Slater won.

I'm saying that if I say "Atleast Heath Slater won," I'm acknowledging it as the only highlight of an otherwise bad match. I'm still saying the match sucked, I'm not saying I liked it... I'm just saying that I'm pleased about that one specific thing: That Heath Slater won. It doesn't override everything else, it's just the lone positive.

Like, I'm using "atleast" to mean "at the least." I'm not sure how that's crazy. >_>
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TheRock1525 posted...

When people like Sasha, Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Natalya, Naomi, Emma and hell even Alicia Fox are better workers,

Okay what
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I just spent 15 posts defending Alexa

Alicia Fox is a better worker

However I will say that Alicia Fox isn't really bad she just never gets any time or feuds
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Actually I'll accept Alicia Fox being a decent worker

But Naomi what
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Alicia Fox is definitely an underrated worker (insert Alicia Fox/Melina joke here). I kinda wish she'd get more consistent time because she can definitely work when she does.

Solioxrz362 posted...

Except Baron Corbin is pretty boring and has no character, and Alexa Bliss is absolutely stellar on the mic and in her character. That's where she succeeds, and it gets her over. What's more important, having good matches and not getting over or getting over and having just serviceable matches? I'd say getting over.

I'd say the women's division has largely taken a step back thanks to Alexa. It was definitely in a better place when Charlotte and Sasha were headlining it.

Like say what you will about hot potatoing the belt, but the audience was pretty damn invested into two quality female wrestlers going at each other on a nightly basis.

Now the division is pretty meh thanks to some bad booking and a mediocre champ.
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TheRock1525 posted...

I'd say the women's division has largely taken a step back thanks to Alexa. It was definitely in a better place when Charlotte and Sasha were headlining it.

Like say what you will about hot potatoing the belt, but the audience was pretty damn invested into two quality female wrestlers going at each other on a nightly basis.

Now the division is pretty meh thanks to some bad booking and a mediocre champ.

Alexa's like, the only thing people are invested in, now. It's not her that hurt the division. It's things like "Bayley this is your life" storylines.
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I come here to talk about the main event four-way and we are embroiled in a discussion about who is a better worker between Alexa Bliss and Alicia Fox.
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Hot potatoing the belt between those two was fine because it made it pretty clear, they're both amazing wrestlers and they're both putting it all out there for it.

Blame the division falling in quality more on the booking than on Alexa Bliss. It's far far more the fault of the booking and hardly the fault of Alexa Bliss at all.
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Naomi is definitely sloppy, but she's pretty good when she's on.
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Seriously man like Alicia's tilt a whirl back breaker and northern lights suplex both look really nice. I can't remember anything else she does because I've never seen her in a match where she got any other offense in, buy if those look that good she's probably more than decent in the ring.

Don't confuse not having good matches with not being a good worker. Alicia if she ever got time or feuds would be great I think

Alexa is better than Naomi though no argument here.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

I come here to talk about the main event four-way and we are embroiled in a discussion about who is a better worker between Alexa Bliss and Alicia Fox.

To be fair, there's not much to say about the main event.

It was fantastic.

Now we just gotta see where it goes.
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Also God Bless Alicia Fox for not killing anyone with that awful Axe Kick she used to use.
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I think when it gets right down to it, I agree with Lopen. At this current moment, I'd take an Alexa match over a Sasha or Bayley match. Alexa's not as talented, technique-wise and all that, but her character really shines in matches. She's the only one that has offense that makes sense and actually feels like her. Sasha and Bayley just tend to set up for big spots that are flashy and bump up the star rating, but half of the time don't even make sense.
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I'm still mad we never got that Mickie vs Alexa feud :(
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See, I actually don't think Alexa's offense makes any sense. He's got the little mannerisms down that work for people like Owens, but a lot of it is meant for a more powerful wrestler. Like, how the hell can she use a chokehold STO on anyone?
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Lopen posted...

I'm still mad we never got that Mickie vs Alexa feud :(

It says something when I forgot to list Mickie in my list of "better workers than Alexa Bliss."
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Well the chokehold is the spin that makes it Alexalike

An STO, the way she does it, is not really something you need a lot of power to do because you're basically just tripping them.
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Like, I ain't gonna tell you not to enjoy Alexa. Simply that I don't think her ring work is good enough for her to be such a focal point the women's division (formerly on Smackdown, currently on RAW) and that it's actively hurting the brands. I would have just as much a problem with someone like Nia Jax also being the focal point, probably more so because she's actively dangerous in the ring and lacking in any sort of significant character.

Like I much preferred the division when the promo work sucked but the matches were good than when one promo was good and the matches kinda suck. And also something tells me Sasha is still massively over despite our topics' general animosity towards her, though I could be wrong as I still haven't sat down to watch the match yet.
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Lopen posted...

Well the chokehold is the spin that makes it Alexalike

An STO, the way she does it, isn't not really something you need a lot of power to do because you're basically just tripping them.

I mean, Bayley and Becky are like half a foot taller than Alexa.

It should be treated like when Hurricane tried to chokeslam Austin and HHH. >_>
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Hurricane actually lifts a dude though. It's a comically out of place power move.

If Alexa like, actually lifted people I would agree with you. The move she does though-- you can do that at any size. It's very easy to push someone down if you put a leg behind their leg. It's a finesse move.

Also I don't believe Sasha is still "massively over"-- she's not getting booed but I think a lot of people are kinda eh on her moreso than they used to be. That's not all her fault or anything though.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

I come here to talk about the main event four-way and we are embroiled in a discussion about who is a better worker between Alexa Bliss and Alicia Fox.

But I'm the troll for pointing shit like this out
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Meh everyone agrees the four way was awesome there's not a lot to talk about.

Only real talking point is whether you think Strowman should've won or not. I personally think he shouldn't have because I want him to face Lesnar in a 1v1 and win there since that seems like the correct setting for it. But on the other hand there is the risk that they won't be able to outdo what they did tonight in a 1v1 and as such Strowman should've just won here-- to some extent I can see where that's coming from-- you can just have a return match down the line and have Strowman win there.

On the whole I'm okay with either one as long as we get Strowman vs Brock though. Brock retaining is only an issue if you have him pin Strowman. Strowman winning but NOT pinning Brock would be almost as bad, on that note. Reigns or Samoa Joe winning here would be terrible. Brock winning by killing Roman though? It's fine.
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Oh btw is Corbin buried now? Seems like he's pretty properly buried.

They could do better than him for a future mega star. Not great to properly bury him but definitely good to push him down the card for a while.
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STO's are generally very fluid moves.

Alexa's STO whenever I've seen it (and I'll admit if I'm wrong here) usually involves her grabbing them by the throat, holding them for a second or two, pulling them towards her and THEN tripping them.

Like she's not lifting them, but the entire sequence takes way too long for an STO, especially since almost everyone is bigger than her.
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Now RUSEV should NOT be buried like he was, that was sad. He's pretty damn good. Why does he get beat in 10 seconds by an older Orton who just lost to Jinder 3 times in a row before getting one victory in?
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Sounds like you watched

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnGRqP0SX8Q and picked out something to complain about. Course you could look at some other ones and see that it's not usually like that.

Anyway even if she did it that way every time it's a pretty minor part of her offense IIRC. The grand scheme of things she's generally using moves that fit-- and I'm pretty sure most of the time she's doing that move it's basically a trip not a POWERHOUSE ALEXA SHOVED EM DOWN.
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Or I'm just not a fan of the tiniest woman in the WWE having such a powerful grip she can force her opponents backwards, then bring them towards her before finally tripping them.

And considering that video matches what I remember quite well, something tells me that's more often how it goes down.
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Btw, moving out of this topic I'm seeing a lot of people happy Sasha won so I'm thinking she's still a lot more over than we think.
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She's a competitive bodybuilder, she's stronger than you are. Being short has nothing to do with strength, at all. If anything it makes her strength more explosive.

Good God Rock when did you become the fucking worst
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I mean there is that one, which I feel like you googled and saw it and then picked apart what was specifically wrong with that one-- and then there are three others on youtube that I saw where she doesn't do that, but if you wanna say that's typical then I guess that's your prerogative. I'm certainly not going to claim I pay so much attention to that specific move that I know for sure which execution is the more normal one, but there are 4 in other 5 second clips where she's not doing that so *shrug
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TheRock1525 posted...

Alexa's STO whenever I've seen it (and I'll admit if I'm wrong here)

Pretty sure that's me admitting it's off memory.

Like the most vivid one in my memory was Becky coming off the ropes only for her to get caught, Alexa shaking her head and then performing it.

Couldn't tell you when or where to save my life.
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Well, it's either you admitting it's off memory, or memory assisted by a youtube clip you looked up where you got the one in four where it looks like that-- but the latter doesn't have quite the ring to it so I'd believe either one was the case.

In any case it's pretty minor part of the overall blend, no matter which one she's doing more often. It's not like she's AJ Lee where 90% of her offense is strikes she looks hideous doing or anything.
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God damn you guys

I thought Braun had won and we were super excitedly talking about the new Strowman era.

Also Sasha still sucks because she shows midriff and has no abs at all. Cover up. Its not embarrassing. Becky covers up and is more built than you too so suck it up.

Put her in the ring with Alexa who is RIPPED and it becomes a real issue for me.
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Also Jakyl - Braun is BY FAR their most successful project you're spot on.
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I don't know where the last 100 posts went...I recall a tweet Heath Slater made. At least I think that happened.
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Not nearly enough talk about Braun's perfect chair throw.

Not enough gifs either.
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Alexa is perfect and you should all respect how perfect she is.

Also her ring work has improved very dramatically.

Also that main event was as the kids say, 'lit' and 'woke'

Stay woke guys
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Anyway, one of the highlights of the show was one of the first time Shane didn't get to count one of KO's pinfalls fast enough, Kevin screams "YOU FALL OFF BUILDINGS AND YOU CAN'T RECOVER FROM THAT IN TIME TO COUNT THREE?"

This is why Owens wins at everything.

I'm very happy with the result last night (anyone but Roman), but I am starting to worry that they're going to wait too long to put the belt on Strowman, and he'll either get injured, or people will lose interest. He really seems to be the only logical conclusion to this, since Brock just beat Joe and Roman took the pin (and that's not counting all of the destruction Braun caused last night). Still, I wouldn't be surprised if the endgame of this is Roman over Brock at Mania.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Or I'm just not a fan of the tiniest woman in the WWE having such a powerful grip she can force her opponents backwards, then bring them towards her before finally tripping them.

And considering that video matches what I remember quite well, something tells me that's more often how it goes down.

She was a competitive fitness model/body builder. She's likely one of the strongest women on the roster. And she actually looks strong, as opposed to no abs Sasha, as somebody already brought up.

Not to mention her gig is "Five Feet of Fury," so her being aggressive and having bursts of strength fits with the character.

Like, you're literally just writing it off because she's short. >_>
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