Current Events > I don't get the hate for the BLM no white people meetings

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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 9:11:58 AM
#51:


gamepimp12 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
Feline_Heart posted...
I don't really know anything about BLM or what they've done, but based on what I've seen it seems like most people hate them solely because of the name.

Noooo, there's plenty of reasons to hate BLM

Here's just a recent example:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/21/give-up-the-home-you-own-black-lives-matter-activist-makes-list-of-requests-for-white-people/


Dailycaller

Are you suggesting Chanelle Helm did not make those demands?
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gamepimp12
08/22/17 9:14:11 AM
#52:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Anarchy_Juiblex posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Like for example at Addict Anonymous they don't let support systems speak


And like with AA, the problem exists with the people at BLM meetings.


Umm that's not why AA doesn't let support systems speak

That's exactly why...no one attends an AA meeting when there's nothing wrong with them.


Plenty people do I have In support of a friend.


But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away
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Anarchy_Juiblex
08/22/17 9:15:34 AM
#53:


Feline_Heart posted...
I don't really know anything about BLM or what they've done


Protests involving violence and tons of property damage.
Chanting for deaths of police officers.
Bullying gay rights groups into kicking the police out of gay pride parades.
Trying to change the LGBTQ flag to have a fucking brown stripe at the top, in general trying to make everything about them.
Racist protests are Berkeley where they had a line that wouldn't let white people cross but allowed other races.
Insufferable representatives.
Spreading lies about every police shooting incident.
Communist rhetoric, irrelevant to black lives.
and a whole fucking laundry list of other shit.

but based on what I've seen it seems like most people hate them solely because of the name.


This is actually a real point, if your organizations name provokes arguments, years after the movement, maybe it would have just been best to add Too at the end? Fuck me.
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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 9:15:41 AM
#54:


gamepimp12 posted...
But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away

Do they keep people away based on their race/gender/sexual orientation?
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gamepimp12
08/22/17 9:17:02 AM
#55:


Let's take it away from race for a second we're dicussing our favorite video game and it's features around people who don't play the game.

They either are uninterested, don't speak or we end up explaining the game on a basic level instead of talking about the features in depth
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gamepimp12
08/22/17 9:17:55 AM
#56:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away

Do they keep people away based on their race/gender/sexual orientation?


Considering it's not based on race gender or sexual orientation in the first place they have no reason too
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3rd_Best_Master
08/22/17 9:21:13 AM
#57:


gamepimp12 posted...
Let's take it away from race for a second we're dicussing our favorite video game and it's features around people who don't play the game.

They either are uninterested, don't speak or we end up explaining the game on a basic level instead of talking about the features in depth

If that's true then they wouldn't accept the invitation to the meeting in the first place. If they're there then that means they atleast have enough of an interest to listen to what everyone else is talking about.
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That_Happened
08/22/17 9:23:00 AM
#58:


3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Let's take it away from race for a second we're dicussing our favorite video game and it's features around people who don't play the game.

They either are uninterested, don't speak or we end up explaining the game on a basic level instead of talking about the features in depth

If that's true then they wouldn't accept the invitation to the meeting in the first place. If they're there then that means they atleast have enough of an interest to listen to what everyone else is talking about.


Imagine the videogame is Dead or Alive 9, and many of the people wanting to show up are staunch feminists who want to gripe about misogyny and put the attention on themselves instead of discussing the game.
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gamepimp12
08/22/17 9:25:58 AM
#59:


3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Let's take it away from race for a second we're dicussing our favorite video game and it's features around people who don't play the game.

They either are uninterested, don't speak or we end up explaining the game on a basic level instead of talking about the features in depth

If that's true then they wouldn't accept the invitation to the meeting in the first place. If they're there then that means they atleast have enough of an interest to listen to what everyone else is talking about.


They probably do and you might of turned them on to the game, which is all great, but then you realize you never got a chance to really talk about the advanced features
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Funkydog
08/22/17 9:26:00 AM
#60:


gamepimp12 posted...
Funkydog posted...
All I see it doing it creating more of a divide - invite white people to them actively, make them a part of it. Help them understand things they might not otherwise. Keeping them out will just mean they will continue to not understand/know and perpetuate the "us and them" mentality.


This is under the assumption every meeting in BLM has to be about making white people understand.

Not all will be directly no. But I do think they should be welcomed. Even if just to listen and discuss. I think this of lgbt stuff I go to that don't want straight people in attendance mind.

But, if people are coming to mock or interfere that is a problem yes, but outright refusing people to be welcome just perpetuates a divide whatever the divide may be.
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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 9:28:40 AM
#61:


gamepimp12 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away

Do they keep people away based on their race/gender/sexual orientation?


Considering it's not based on race gender or sexual orientation in the first place

Neither are experiences.

Again, give just one example of an experience a black person can have that a white person cannot have a similar experience of.
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The Admiral
08/22/17 9:29:26 AM
#62:


gamepimp12 posted...
Like you obviously want and cherish your white supporters

But when discussing shared experiences around people who don't share said experience the discussion becomes more informative than anything.

It's just more unnecessary mouths, you come talk to them after.


Like for example at Addict Anonymous they don't let support systems speak


The people holding segregated meetings don't cherish white supporters. They think white people owe them for past injustices and feel like they're entitled to aid without needing to ask or thank anyone.
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3rd_Best_Master
08/22/17 9:31:55 AM
#63:


That_Happened posted...
3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Let's take it away from race for a second we're dicussing our favorite video game and it's features around people who don't play the game.

They either are uninterested, don't speak or we end up explaining the game on a basic level instead of talking about the features in depth

If that's true then they wouldn't accept the invitation to the meeting in the first place. If they're there then that means they atleast have enough of an interest to listen to what everyone else is talking about.


Imagine the videogame is Dead or Alive 9, and many of the people wanting to show up are staunch feminists who want to gripe about misogyny and put the attention on themselves instead of discussing the game.

Attempt your dialogue anyways. You're not helping yourself by being afraid of your opponents and what they have to say. If they're the ones that make the discussion impossible then all you have to do is point at them and you can hang them with their own words and actions... Hey wait a minute...
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Feline_Heart
08/22/17 9:32:12 AM
#64:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away

Do they keep people away based on their race/gender/sexual orientation?


Considering it's not based on race gender or sexual orientation in the first place

Neither are experiences.

Again, give just one example of an experience a black person can have that a white person cannot have a similar experience of.

Being followed around stores by security because of their skin color
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3rd_Best_Master
08/22/17 9:33:29 AM
#65:


gamepimp12 posted...
3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Let's take it away from race for a second we're dicussing our favorite video game and it's features around people who don't play the game.

They either are uninterested, don't speak or we end up explaining the game on a basic level instead of talking about the features in depth

If that's true then they wouldn't accept the invitation to the meeting in the first place. If they're there then that means they atleast have enough of an interest to listen to what everyone else is talking about.


They probably do and you might of turned them on to the game, which is all great, but then you realize you never got a chance to really talk about the advanced features

And that's when you invite them back for more and more discussions until you get to the point where you can discuss those advanced features and they'll understand. Maybe by that point they'll have become fans of the game as well and they can have more to contribute and then the discussion will actually become more meaningful.
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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 9:33:52 AM
#66:


Feline_Heart posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away

Do they keep people away based on their race/gender/sexual orientation?


Considering it's not based on race gender or sexual orientation in the first place

Neither are experiences.

Again, give just one example of an experience a black person can have that a white person cannot have a similar experience of.

Being followed around stores by security because of their skin color

Not having your government prosecute your friends and family who were murdered because of their skin color

http://www.newsweek.com/zimbabwe-president-robert-mugabe-white-farmers-651326

Got anything else?
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gamepimp12
08/22/17 9:33:53 AM
#67:


The Admiral posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Like you obviously want and cherish your white supporters

But when discussing shared experiences around people who don't share said experience the discussion becomes more informative than anything.

It's just more unnecessary mouths, you come talk to them after.


Like for example at Addict Anonymous they don't let support systems speak


The people holding segregated meetings don't cherish white supporters. They think white people owe them for past injustices and feel like they're entitled to aid without needing to ask or thank anyone.


1. You've sure spoken to them a lot

2. Even if that's is the case that's a problem with the individual and not the concept of miniority only meetings
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gamepimp12
08/22/17 9:35:05 AM
#68:


3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Let's take it away from race for a second we're dicussing our favorite video game and it's features around people who don't play the game.

They either are uninterested, don't speak or we end up explaining the game on a basic level instead of talking about the features in depth

If that's true then they wouldn't accept the invitation to the meeting in the first place. If they're there then that means they atleast have enough of an interest to listen to what everyone else is talking about.


They probably do and you might of turned them on to the game, which is all great, but then you realize you never got a chance to really talk about the advanced features

And that's when you invite them back for more and more discussions until you get to the point where you can discuss those advanced features and they'll understand. Maybe by that point they'll have become fans of the game as well and they can have more to contribute and then the discussion will actually become more meaningful.


And maybe more non gamers will come so you have to explain it all over again.
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Feline_Heart
08/22/17 9:36:30 AM
#69:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
Feline_Heart posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away

Do they keep people away based on their race/gender/sexual orientation?


Considering it's not based on race gender or sexual orientation in the first place

Neither are experiences.

Again, give just one example of an experience a black person can have that a white person cannot have a similar experience of.

Being followed around stores by security because of their skin color

Not having your government prosecute your friends and family who were murdered because of their skin color

http://www.newsweek.com/zimbabwe-president-robert-mugabe-white-farmers-651326

Got anything else?

Apartheid
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3rd_Best_Master
08/22/17 9:37:02 AM
#70:


gamepimp12 posted...
3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Let's take it away from race for a second we're dicussing our favorite video game and it's features around people who don't play the game.

They either are uninterested, don't speak or we end up explaining the game on a basic level instead of talking about the features in depth

If that's true then they wouldn't accept the invitation to the meeting in the first place. If they're there then that means they atleast have enough of an interest to listen to what everyone else is talking about.


They probably do and you might of turned them on to the game, which is all great, but then you realize you never got a chance to really talk about the advanced features

And that's when you invite them back for more and more discussions until you get to the point where you can discuss those advanced features and they'll understand. Maybe by that point they'll have become fans of the game as well and they can have more to contribute and then the discussion will actually become more meaningful.


And maybe more non gamers will come so you have to explain it all over again.

That's completely acceptable. When I'm passionate about what I'm talking about I have no issue trying to ensure other people know about it.
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Millennials
08/22/17 9:37:41 AM
#71:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
Imagine if someone declared a "safe space" where no black people were allowed.

Um, we don't have to imagine that. Your lot had it implemented by our government for a couple hundred years of American history and had to be taken from it kicking and screaming, refusing to let go of it to this very day.

Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
I don't get the hate for the no black people meetings

Like you obviously want and cherish your black supporters

But when discussing shared experiences around people who don't share said experience the discussion becomes more informative than anything.

It's just more unnecessary mouths, you come talk to them after.

For this not to be stupid, you would have to assume that blacks and whites are coming from the same place in history.

But why am I wasting effort on you. You know what you're saying is stupid.
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gamepimp12
08/22/17 9:40:08 AM
#72:


3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
3rd_Best_Master posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Let's take it away from race for a second we're dicussing our favorite video game and it's features around people who don't play the game.

They either are uninterested, don't speak or we end up explaining the game on a basic level instead of talking about the features in depth

If that's true then they wouldn't accept the invitation to the meeting in the first place. If they're there then that means they atleast have enough of an interest to listen to what everyone else is talking about.


They probably do and you might of turned them on to the game, which is all great, but then you realize you never got a chance to really talk about the advanced features

And that's when you invite them back for more and more discussions until you get to the point where you can discuss those advanced features and they'll understand. Maybe by that point they'll have become fans of the game as well and they can have more to contribute and then the discussion will actually become more meaningful.


And maybe more non gamers will come so you have to explain it all over again.

That's completely acceptable. When I'm passionate about what I'm talking about I have no issue trying to ensure other people know about it.


I agree I enjoy it as well , the problem is it gets really hard to make actual progress in your topic if you've got to spend time back tracking every meeting.

I think you can agree with that
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LinkAndEpona
08/22/17 9:40:52 AM
#73:


It's not good to be bring back segregation
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That_Happened
08/22/17 9:41:38 AM
#74:


Sephiroth1288 posted...

Not having your government prosecute your friends and family who were murdered because of their skin color

http://www.newsweek.com/zimbabwe-president-robert-mugabe-white-farmers-651326


You know what a lot of white Americans went through? The white farmer purge of Zimbabwe.
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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 9:42:03 AM
#75:


Feline_Heart posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
Feline_Heart posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away

Do they keep people away based on their race/gender/sexual orientation?


Considering it's not based on race gender or sexual orientation in the first place

Neither are experiences.

Again, give just one example of an experience a black person can have that a white person cannot have a similar experience of.

Being followed around stores by security because of their skin color

Not having your government prosecute your friends and family who were murdered because of their skin color

http://www.newsweek.com/zimbabwe-president-robert-mugabe-white-farmers-651326

Got anything else?

Apartheid

Still not dissimilar to the example I just gave.
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Funkydog
08/22/17 9:42:08 AM
#76:


gamepimp12 posted...
I agree I enjoy it as well , the problem is it gets really hard to make actual progress in your topic if you've got to spend time back tracking every meeting.

I think you can agree with that

Maybe. But so what?

If it gets more involved and engaged then it is worth it.
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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 9:42:39 AM
#77:


That_Happened posted...
You know what a lot of white Americans went through? The white farmer purge of Zimbabwe.

Oh, so the divide is national, not racial?
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Feline_Heart
08/22/17 9:44:11 AM
#78:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
That_Happened posted...
You know what a lot of white Americans went through? The white farmer purge of Zimbabwe.

Oh, so the divide is national, not racial?

Isn't BLM an American movement? You're being obtuse
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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 9:46:24 AM
#79:


Feline_Heart posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
That_Happened posted...
You know what a lot of white Americans went through? The white farmer purge of Zimbabwe.

Oh, so the divide is national, not racial?

Isn't BLM an American movement?

No? Where'd you get that idea

They have chapters in Canada and several european countries

Also you completely discount the possibility that white victims in Zimbabwe can't have, ya know, moved here.
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That_Happened
08/22/17 9:48:45 AM
#80:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
That_Happened posted...
You know what a lot of white Americans went through? The white farmer purge of Zimbabwe.

Oh, so the divide is national, not racial?

The divide is between your brain and rational thought, Mal_Fet. Don't worry, I'm not here to have an actual discussion with you (because that's a waste). I'm just here to make fun of your never-ending reach to find exceptions that do anything but prove your dumb-ass point.

I like my Dead or Alive/feminist trolls example. If gamers want to have a meeting about a game and exclude trolls from derailing the discussion I have no problem with it. I know I'm a white guy who is capable of going to a BLM meeting and shutting the fuck up and listening to them but I also know that several of my friends can't get through a discussion about race without having the need to interject and call every person of color "paranoid." So if BLM wants to have their own meetings with people who have shared experiences Idgaflyingfuck.
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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 9:51:48 AM
#81:


That_Happened posted...

The divide is between your brain and rational thought, Mal_Fet. Don't worry, I'm not here to have an actual discussion with you (because that's a waste). I'm just here to make fun of your never-ending reach to find exceptions that do anything but prove your dumb-ass point.

Says a guy defending segregation.

Sorry, once you've gone full-regressive, every insult you have for me feels like a compliment ;)
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That_Happened
08/22/17 9:56:18 AM
#82:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
Says a guy defending segregation.


I'd say civil rights leaders are turning in their graves over your use of that word (and trying to connect it to actual government-sanctioned segregation of the past), but even dead guys know your full of shit so they're probably just laughing like the rest of us. You're the type of derp to stand in the other team's huddle during a football game and say If I'm not allowed to hear your strategy because of the color of my jersey that's segregation! You're as bad as the high school teacher who wouldn't let me sit in her classroom just because I'm 27! SEGREGATION!
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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 9:57:44 AM
#83:


That_Happened posted...
I'd say civil rights leaders are turning in their graves over your use of that word

A word that means dividing places up by racial categories? That word?
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That_Happened
08/22/17 10:01:46 AM
#84:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
That_Happened posted...
I'd say civil rights leaders are turning in their graves over your use of that word (and trying to connect it to actual government-sanctioned segregation of the past)

A word that means dividing places up by racial categories? That word?


No, the word that means the bold part that you purposely excluded. Derp.
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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 10:03:11 AM
#85:


That_Happened posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
That_Happened posted...
I'd say civil rights leaders are turning in their graves over your use of that word (and trying to connect it to actual government-sanctioned segregation of the past)

A word that means dividing places up by racial categories? That word?


No, the word that means the bold part that you purposely excluded. Derp.

Segregation doesn't need to be government-enforced to be segregation

So you support segregation, yes?
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That_Happened
08/22/17 10:08:16 AM
#86:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
Segregation doesn't need to be government-enforced to be segregation


Then we disagree, because people self-segregate all the time. There's a reason no one invites you to parties, for example.
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Sephiroth1288
08/22/17 10:23:57 AM
#87:


That_Happened posted...
Then we disagree, because people self-segregate all the time.

You can choose who to associate with personally, but quarantining a space against people of a certain race is called segregation.

So you support it then, right?
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gamepimp12
08/22/17 10:33:43 AM
#88:


Wait thats Mal ? Explains so much
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That_Happened
08/22/17 10:34:05 AM
#89:


gamepimp12 posted...
Wait thats Mal ? Explains so much


Yep. His main is in purgatory because of course it is.
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Medz2017
08/22/17 10:34:25 AM
#90:


I thought white people should hate segregation
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That_Happened
08/22/17 10:37:49 AM
#91:


Medz2017 posted...
I thought white people should hate segregation


It's more like IDGAF (which I already said) and don't take it as a personal afront if some black people want to have a black-only meeting. Doesn't affect me in the slightest.
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darkjedilink
08/22/17 10:55:08 AM
#92:


gamepimp12 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away

Do they keep people away based on their race/gender/sexual orientation?

Considering it's not based on race gender or sexual orientation in the first place they have no reason too

An organization literally named 'Black Lives Matter,' that kicks white people out of meetings and demands their shit, isn't about race?
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darkjedilink
08/22/17 10:57:02 AM
#93:


LinkAndEpona posted...
It's not good to be bring back segregation

Oddly enough, it's black people that want to.

But, hey, Dems love segregation along racial lines - they did it the last time, too.
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That_Happened
08/22/17 11:01:13 AM
#94:


darkjedilink posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away

Do they keep people away based on their race/gender/sexual orientation?

Considering it's not based on race gender or sexual orientation in the first place they have no reason too

An organization literally named 'Black Lives Matter,' that kicks white people out of meetings and demands their shit, isn't about race?


They were talking about AA meetings at this point, not BLM.

darkjedilink posted...
But, hey, Dems love segregation along racial lines - they did it the last time, too.


Um, no. Democrats in the North and South were more likely to vote for the Civil Rights act than Republicans in the North and South. The defining factor was more about geography than party.
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darkjedilink
08/22/17 12:11:07 PM
#95:


That_Happened posted...
darkjedilink posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
But they keep most meetings closed to keep trolls away

Do they keep people away based on their race/gender/sexual orientation?

Considering it's not based on race gender or sexual orientation in the first place they have no reason too

An organization literally named 'Black Lives Matter,' that kicks white people out of meetings and demands their shit, isn't about race?


They were talking about AA meetings at this point, not BLM.

darkjedilink posted...
But, hey, Dems love segregation along racial lines - they did it the last time, too.


Um, no. Democrats in the North and South were more likely to vote for the Civil Rights act than Republicans in the North and South. The defining factor was more about geography than party.

Dems had the south in a vice. The only reason they went along with the CRA, after over a decade of unified opposition, was because LBJ pointed out that they'd own black people again.

As in, new slavery.

That's how Dems have always seen black people, and how they always will.
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That_Happened
08/22/17 12:20:12 PM
#96:


darkjedilink posted...
Dems had the south in a vice. The only reason they went along with the CRA, after over a decade of unified opposition, was because LBJ pointed out that they'd own black people again.


No again. Dems in the south didn't "go along with the Civil Rights Act." They voted heavily against it. But they were more likely to vote for it than southern Republicans (zero southern Repubs in the House AND Senate voted for the CRA).

Keep digging that hole, buddy. I'm sure you'll find some more alternative facts down there. Lol.
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De Evolution
08/22/17 12:22:42 PM
#97:


The Admiral posted...
gamepimp12 posted...
Like you obviously want and cherish your white supporters

But when discussing shared experiences around people who don't share said experience the discussion becomes more informative than anything.

It's just more unnecessary mouths, you come talk to them after.


Like for example at Addict Anonymous they don't let support systems speak


The people holding segregated meetings don't cherish white supporters. They think white people owe them for past injustices and feel like they're entitled to aid without needing to ask or thank anyone.


Let's be honest. The people holding these meetings are mainly mentally ill and damaged people.

The people in BLM constantly promoting victimhood and telling white people they aren't allowed to join their complaining meetings and cry sessions are not big on logic and reason and accountability.
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That_Happened
08/22/17 12:30:44 PM
#98:


De Evolution posted...
Let's be honest. The people holding these meetings are mainly mentally ill and damaged people.


You're saying this on a message board where 70% of the population who responded to a poll either have been diagnosed with mental illness or identify themselves as mentally ill. Just so you're aware of your audience.
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MattSFfrd
08/22/17 12:46:20 PM
#99:


That_Happened posted...
De Evolution posted...
Let's be honest. The people holding these meetings are mainly mentally ill and damaged people.


You're saying this on a message board where 70% of the population who responded to a poll either have been diagnosed with mental illness or identify themselves as mentally ill. Just so you're aware of your audience.


that's probably a little low for CE tbqh
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darkjedilink
08/22/17 1:19:57 PM
#100:


That_Happened posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
Says a guy defending segregation.


I'd say civil rights leaders are turning in their graves over your use of that word (and trying to connect it to actual government-sanctioned segregation of the past), but even dead guys know your full of shit so they're probably just laughing like the rest of us. You're the type of derp to stand in the other team's huddle during a football game and say If I'm not allowed to hear your strategy because of the color of my jersey that's segregation! You're as bad as the high school teacher who wouldn't let me sit in her classroom just because I'm 27! SEGREGATION!

I'd say civil rights leaders are rolling in their graves that, after fighting and dying to end segregation, liberals want to re-implement it.
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