Current Events > Lesbian couple win damages from county clerk who called them an abominanation'

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/lesbian-damages-couple-amanda-abramovich-samantha-brookover-debbie-allen-10000-county-clerk-a7923481.html

Debbie Allen slammed pair's paperwork on desk and told them she was a Christian before attacking them in a rant that continued for several minutes

A deputy clerk in Gilmer County allegedly chastised the women as she processed their marriage license, calling them an "abomination" and telling them God would "deal" with them, according to a complaint filed in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of West Virginia.

When the couple requested a marriage license they expected an eye roll or another small sign of disapproval from the clerk's office in the largely conservative county - 75 percent of the residents voted for President Donald Trump - but they didn't expect the "tirade of harassment and disparagement" they received, according to the complaint.

Deputy Clerk Debbie Allen slammed the paperwork on the desk, said she was a Christian and called the couple an "abomination" in a rant that continued for several minutes, according to court documents. Another clerk joined in, shouting that it was Allen's "religious right" to harass the couple, according to the complaint.

Abramovich remained silent throughout the abuse. Brookover cried.

When Brookover's mother later called the county clerk's office to report the encounter, she said County Clerk Jean Butcher told her she knew about the interaction and believed the couple deserved the treatment they received. The next same-sex couple that sought a marriage license, she allegedly said, "would get the same or worse" treatment.

She did acknowledge that she told the couple what they were doing was wrong and God would judge them, according to the Gazette-Mail.

"I just told them my opinion," she said. "I just felt led to do that. I believe God was standing with me and that's just my religious belief."

But in a news release on Aug. 30, Gilmer County seemed to do an about-face. The county acknowledged that Brookover and Abramovich "were disrespected and disparaged by staff" because they were a same-sex couple.

"That was wrong," the news release stated. "It is the policy of Gilmer County and the Gilmer County Clerk's Office that all people seeking services and doing business with the County will be treated courteously and with respect regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity."

In addition to paying the couple $10,000, the county also agreed to require all officials and employees of the county commission and county clerk's office to participate in a training program provided by Fairness West Virginia, an advocacy organization dedicated to the fair and equal treatment of LGBT West Virginians.

TL:DR - lesbian couple go to get married. Get abused by the clerk dealing with them, another clerk joins in on the abuse. They call in to register a complaint and a third clerk tells them they deserved it.

I kind of feel like $10k isn't enough here, but it's an interesting story for anyone who thinks equal rights stops with the positive right to get married ruling.
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WTF all three clerks said the same thing to them lmao wtf they need to get fired but 10k is fair. They got paid.
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Fair, next.
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Anyone remember Jesus and his message of love and acceptance?

But I thought racism and homophobia was dead?
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pinky0926 posted...

Another clerk joined in, shouting that it was Allen's "religious right" to harass the couple, according to the complaint.

Which CEman was that?
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pinky0926 posted...

I kind of feel like $10k isn't enough here

and what would have been "enough" here?
reminder: no one was hurt, they were still married in the end and accomplished what they set out to do legally and without impairment.
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I don't understand how you can work for the govt. and not understand that you can't do this to people while serving in that role. There should be stronger consequences than retraining.
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Phantom_Nook posted...

Fair, next.

I don't know about that. That's $10k taxpayer money. Sounds like they all have their jobs still. And it would have cost this couple a lot in lawyer fees.
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The Trent posted...

pinky0926 posted...

I kind of feel like $10k isn't enough here

and what would have been "enough" here?
reminder: no one was hurt, they were still married in the end and accomplished what they set out to do legally and without impairment.

Them losing their jobs would be a terrific start. How fucking vile of a person do you have to be to go off on somebody like that while you're at your place of work?
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agree, they should at the very least be demoted to processing positions as opposed to elected clerk positions
if they can't (by voicing unwillingness) perform the duties of the job then they are unqualified for the job, at best
so if that's a start, what comes next?
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Awful, that's just fucking awful.
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eston posted...

I don't understand how you can work for the govt. and not understand that you can't do this to people while serving in that role. There should be stronger consequences than retraining.

In places like this there's a good chance the leadership is all okay with it so there's never any punishment and it's just business as usual
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if they're county clerks then they're elected on ballots, correct?
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FrankGoreHOF posted...

eston posted...

I don't understand how you can work for the govt. and not understand that you can't do this to people while serving in that role. There should be stronger consequences than retraining.

In places like this there's a good chance the leadership is all okay with it so there's never any punishment and it's just business as usual

I can picture them sitting around laughing about the mandatory "retraining" sessions they're going to have to clock in for.

"So Debbie we all know it's bullshit and you were just speaking your mind, but I'm afraid you'll have to watch this 30 minute training video in the lunch room. We'll have a wine spritzer ready for you after ;)"
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pinky0926 posted...

The Trent posted...

pinky0926 posted...

I kind of feel like $10k isn't enough here

and what would have been "enough" here?
reminder: no one was hurt, they were still married in the end and accomplished what they set out to do legally and without impairment.

Them losing their jobs would be a terrific start. How fucking vile of a person do you have to be to go off on somebody like that while you're at your place of work?

It was hush money. The county is 75% conservative, I'm assuming that means Christian as well. If they got fired, the masses may be pist. Just a guess.
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Xtians gonna xtians
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And people wonder why the younger generation is turning away from religion....


It's crazy ass Christians like this that perpetuate the stereotype.
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They should be fired for breaking their obligation to separate church and state, and then it would be fair, next.
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pinky0926 posted...

Phantom_Nook posted...

Fair, next.

I don't know about that. That's $10k taxpayer money. Sounds like they all have their jobs still. And it would have cost this couple a lot in lawyer fees.

Exactly. This is like Arpaio racking up all of those legal fees at the expense of the taxpayers of Arizona. His money is never on the line, so why would he care?
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Chronofan8 posted...

Anyone remember Jesus and his message of love and acceptance?

No they don't
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I agree with those three clerks.
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I'd let any trio call me an abomination for $10k


Hell get like 50,000 people do it
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Aren't you supposed to treat everyone equally, and let God be the only one that does the judging?
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I just wonder what church these people grew up in. Love and compassion are to be shown to "enemies" according to the Bible, leaving God Himself to deal with judgment. God will judge these clerks for showing hatred. We should be there and harass them on that note.
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Ranmaru-7 posted...

I agree with those three clerks.

Cool, but if you're an elected official with a job to do your feelings are irrelevant.

UnfairRepresent posted...

I'd let any trio call me an abomination for $10k


Hell get like 50,000 people do it

I don't think $10k is a lot of money when lawyers are 200 bucks an hour.
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Ranmaru-7 posted...

I agree with those three clerks.

Low quality
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This is why the government shouldn't be in the marriage business.
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SageHarpuia posted...

This is why the government shouldn't be in the marriage business.

You don't think that a government recognized process to streamline inheritance, visitation rights, etc. should exist?
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I wonder if they said it like obamanation. They should definitely be fired and blocked from ever working in government again
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They knew this would happen and went away.

They could've driven a few extra hours and gone to Maryland, where there would be much less issues. But no, they had to go to one of the most conservative areas of the country to get their same-sex marriage licence.

SSJ-AshKetchum posted...

They knew this would happen and went away.

They could've driven a few extra hours and gone to Maryland, where there would be much less issues. But no, they had to go to one of the most conservative areas of the country to get their same-sex marriage licence.

People shouldn't expect their local government to accommodate them? Despite paying the same taxes as everyone else?
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fenderbender321 posted...

How are you out $10k because somebody said mean things to you? I'm having a hard time finding how they're missing money.

*neigh*
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

SSJ-AshKetchum posted...

They knew this would happen and went away.

They could've driven a few extra hours and gone to Maryland, where there would be much less issues. But no, they had to go to one of the most conservative areas of the country to get their same-sex marriage licence.

People shouldn't expect their local government to accommodate them? Despite paying the same taxes as everyone else?

This.
@SSJ-AshKetchum
the clerks could have worked security in a dirt lot looking for vagrants and watching over copper wire. But no, they had to go into a field where they deal with things against their religious beliefs.
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SSJ-AshKetchum posted...

They knew this would happen and went away.

They could've driven a few extra hours and gone to Maryland, where there would be much less issues. But no, they had to go to one of the most conservative areas of the country to get their same-sex marriage licence.

What the fuck is this victim blaming bullshit

You don't deserve to get harrassed by a government official for doing what is your right, do I even need to explain that
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pinky0926 posted...

I don't think $10k is a lot of money when lawyers are 200 bucks an hour.

it was probably a contingency case where the lawyer got 1/3 of the settlement rather than based on rate.

I do agree it should have been more and the clerks should have been more. something like $100k would be enough to make it unlikely to happen in that area again.
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fenderbender321 posted...

How are you out $10k because somebody said mean things to you? I'm having a hard time finding how they're missing money.

I don't know what it cost them, but have you ever lawyered up and tried to take anything to court before? It cost me $10k to apply for a visa I didn't even have granted. Literally $10k just to lodge some paperwork.
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KILBOTz posted...

something like $100k would be enough.

yep, i was looking for something like this
so for some people talking shit to you, but not stopping you in any way, in doing what you want to do...100k is fair
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SSJ-AshKetchum posted...

They knew this would happen and went away.

They could've driven a few extra hours and gone to Maryland, where there would be much less issues. But no, they had to go to one of the most conservative areas of the country to get their same-sex marriage licence.

Are you forreal?
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pinky0926 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

How are you out $10k because somebody said mean things to you? I'm having a hard time finding how they're missing money.

I don't know what it cost them, but have you ever lawyered up and tried to take anything to court before? It cost me $10k to apply for a visa I didn't even have granted. Literally $10k just to lodge some paperwork.

it's also possible that the lawsuit stipulated that the defendants cover the cost of the aggrieved party's legal damages?
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The Trent posted...

pinky0926 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

How are you out $10k because somebody said mean things to you? I'm having a hard time finding how they're missing money.

I don't know what it cost them, but have you ever lawyered up and tried to take anything to court before? It cost me $10k to apply for a visa I didn't even have granted. Literally $10k just to lodge some paperwork.

it's also possible that the lawsuit stipulated that the defendants cover the cost of the aggrieved party's legal damages?

True, but you have to front the costs with no guarantee of a win. Also consider the added stress of going through that situation. So they go to get married, get shat on by a court official, go to complain, shut down again, and then lodge legal proceedings which gets picked up by the press, with everyone's names being dragged through the mud. And sounds like this whole thing took a year to resolve.

If you talk to anyone who has had to pursue a lawsuit because they were harrassed, it has to be a very large sum of money before someone will say they're happy with the outcome. Mostly it's just a lot of stress and grief which doesn't make up for the payout.
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MY RIGHTS MY RELIGIOUS RIGHTS

THE PERSON I'M INTERACTING WITH DOESN'T GET THE SAME RIGHTS AS ME APPARENTLY BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN SOMETHING DIFFERENT SO I'M GOING TO REBUKE THEM FOR IT

Makes a lot of sense.
Christianity, organized religion in general, seems to be at odds with the state a lot
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Phantom_Nook posted...

Fair, next.

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The Trent posted...

KILBOTz posted...

something like $100k would be enough.

yep, i was looking for something like this
so for some people talking shit to you, but not stopping you in any way, in doing what you want to do...100k is fair

there is a long history of large lawsuits for harassment and it is typically larger when done by a public servant. what, do you just hate gays and want to be able to treat them poorly? is that why my post upset you?
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"Wow, you're right. Your behavior has caused us both to stop being gay and go marry people of the opposite sex like we've learned from you that God wants us to" - no one ever
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Clerks should be fired. If I told a customer at my work they were an abomination, my ass would be out the door within minutes of my boss hearing about it. I can't imagine any place where that wouldn't be the case.
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Gheb posted...

Clerks should be fired. If I told a customer at my work they were an abomination, my ass would be out the door within minutes of my boss hearing about it. I can't imagine any place where that wouldn't be the case.

It's pretty hard to get government workers fired, from experience
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