Board 8 > It's OFFICIAL!! 800,000 KIDS will be BOOTED out of the USA as DACA Ends!!!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's official: President Trump has decided to end the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program according to 2 close aides.

They said the president made the decision this afternoon after meeting with aides.

DACA is an Obama-era initivate that grants work permits to more than 800,000 undocumented immigrants who were brought by family members as children.

This will spark fury towards the White House on either side of the aisle and Trump and his aides worked through noon to decide how to best announce this controversial decision.

The president was trying to make up his mind on whether or not ot end this program since inauguration as Trump railed against Obama and slammed it as an "illegal amnesty" that he would immediately end.

Though he made it a campaign promise, there were moments it looked like he would not address the program because of its popularity and he even suggested Friday that "We love the Dreamers, We love everybody"...

Some GOP lawmakers urged him to change his mind on DACA and even Paul Ryan suggested he not end it. He said "These are kids who know no other country, who are brought here by their parents and don't know another home. And so i really do believe there needs to be a legislative solution"

Jeff Sessions apparently played a role in rewriting a new immigration law to persuade Trump to terminate the program.

Trump will delay the ENFORCEMENT of the new immigration decision and deportation of immigrant children by 6 months

That window will give congress some time to act but no doubt this will anger millions of americans but shore up his base who put him over the line of the presidency

Do you think these 800,000 kids should be kicked out?

Trump - The Devil

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/04/03/43DF91F000000578-4849680-image-a-36_1504492014907.jpg

Dreamers -

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/04/03/43CE11D800000578-4849680-image-a-44_1504492135762.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/04/03/43BBE0A700000578-4849680-image-m-51_1504492204173.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/04/04/43BBE12800000578-4849680-Though_Trump_s_announcement_on_Tuesday_will_anger_millions_of_Am-a-4_1504497311753.jpg
---

Stupid and cruel. A very Trumpian action.

Hopefully Congress will actually be able to pass some legislation to avert this avoidable disaster.
---

Will Trump one day just instruct the army to shoot them in the head? Would that be more cost effective than the cost of arranging and shipping them back to whatever country they hailed from?
---

Eh, whatever, kids are awful anyway
---

Immigration isn't a gift. Why should we keep them in the country?
---

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

Immigration isn't a gift. Why should we keep them in the country?

The country founded on immigration and stealing land from the natives says this after several centuries huh? I guess they would feel this way though, woohoo founding fathers.

They should be kept here because they were born here, whether they came in "illegally" or not, they were children when they did so and knew no better. It's inhuman to force people who have no memory of any other home in many cases to leave the country that is that only home they've known.
---

I mean, tough? Every country's borders are the result of "stealing land." We accept immigrants when they're gonna be good for the country as a whole. A lot of people come in and use more social services than the value they contribute, and decrease the value for the existing population overall by making our social infrastructure cover more people than it's designed for.

Unskilled labor used to provide a lot of value for the employer. All those unskilled and repetitive factory jobs that robots do now used to be like $18/hr. But now the labor market is such that unskilled immigrant labor drives wages down for the poorest legal citizens. The US shouldn't have to babysit the entire world.

What number of immigrants do you think the US can support? What criteria should we use for determining whether someone who just hops a fence gets to stay?
---

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

All those unskilled and repetitive factory jobs that robots do now used to be like $18/hr. But now the labor market is such that unskilled immigrant labor drives wages down for the poorest legal citizens.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart
---

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

Unskilled labor used to provide a lot of value for the employer. All those unskilled and repetitive factory jobs that robots do now used to be like $18/hr. But now the labor market is such that unskilled immigrant labor drives wages down for the poorest legal citizens. The US shouldn't have to babysit the entire world.

So... we should throw innocent children out of the country because grocery stores, factories and department stores want to pay people as little as possible? Do you really believe that tighter immigration laws would drive up the wages... lol? I mean, you know the wages are that way because the top 1% wants to be even richer right? They hire people they can pay less to because that's the way they want to do business.
---

v_charon posted...

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

Immigration isn't a gift. Why should we keep them in the country?

The country founded on immigration and stealing land from the natives says this after several centuries huh? I guess they would feel this way though, woohoo founding fathers.

They should be kept here because they were born here, whether they came in "illegally" or not, they were children when they did so and knew no better. It's inhuman to force people who have no memory of any other home in many cases to leave the country that is that only home they've known.

then blame their parents for immigrating illegally
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

All those unskilled and repetitive factory jobs that robots do now used to be like $18/hr. But now the labor market is such that unskilled immigrant labor drives wages down for the poorest legal citizens.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart

It's not good to pay people crappy wages but barring regulations and spending the resources to enforce them (which the government will not do unless they think they'll get their money back) labor is subject to supply and demand like any other good or service

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_Demand

v_charon posted...

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

Unskilled labor used to provide a lot of value for the employer. All those unskilled and repetitive factory jobs that robots do now used to be like $18/hr. But now the labor market is such that unskilled immigrant labor drives wages down for the poorest legal citizens. The US shouldn't have to babysit the entire world.

So... we should throw innocent children out of the country because grocery stores, factories and department stores want to pay people as little as possible? Do you really believe that tighter immigration laws would drive up the wages... lol? I mean, you know the wages are that way because the top 1% wants to be even richer right? They hire people they can pay less to because that's the way they want to do business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_Demand

Reducing the supply of labor increases the price of labor. That's good for workers. Removing all the people who are here illegally is a good way to reduce the supply of labor. And it's not punishment to prevent people from using a privilege they don't have a right to.
---

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

It's not good to pay people crappy wages

1) what's "crappy wages" is subjective.
2) ...why is it necessarily "not good" to pay people "crappy wages"? i think it's entirely reasonable that a fucking burger flipper at mcdonald's doesn't make lots of money. if you want more money, get a better job.
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

It's not good to pay people crappy wages

1) what's "crappy wages" is subjective.
2) ...why is it necessarily "not good" to pay people "crappy wages"? i think it's entirely reasonable that a fucking burger flipper at mcdonald's doesn't make lots of money. if you want more money, get a better job.

It's not good to take advantage of the fact that people in compromised situations have limited recourse to pay wages that are below market rate.
---

So like, burger flipper at McDonalds making $8/hr is fine. Burger flipper at McDonalds making $6/hr, which is less than minimum wage, is not fine. McDonald's hiring an illegal immigrant to flip burgers for $6/hr is not fine because they're using the fact that the illegal immigrant has no recourse to save money for themselves, to the direct detriment of whichever legally-here person would have gotten that job at minimum-or-higher wage.
---

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

What criteria should we use for determining whether someone who just hops a fence gets to stay?

I don't know, fucking empathy maybe?
---

RySenkari posted...

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

What criteria should we use for determining whether someone who just hops a fence gets to stay?

I don't know, fucking empathy maybe?

They're trespassing and making it harder for similarly-skilled lawful residents to get jobs. Where's your empathy for the people they're displacing?
---

Well this is a clusterfuck.
---

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

RySenkari posted...

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

What criteria should we use for determining whether someone who just hops a fence gets to stay?

I don't know, fucking empathy maybe?

They're trespassing and making it harder for similarly-skilled lawful residents to get jobs. Where's your empathy for the people they're displacing?

They're not displacing anybody, nobody has been forced out of America because of these people's presence. And as for making it harder to create jobs? Demand creates jobs, and when you push people out of the country, demand will go down.
---

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

They're trespassing and making it harder for similarly-skilled lawful residents to get jobs.

Again, you support deporting a bunch of people who did not even choose to come to this country, yet this is now their home they're being forced to leave it. And your justification is actually thinking that this will cause low-wage companies to offer more money to American citizens. It's a pipe dream. It simply doesn't work that way. You're fooling yourself if you believe for one instance that a wage increase would come on the back of this, federally enforced or by company choice.

Another thing is this derogatory nature I sense from both of you in regards to "burger flippers". Yeah, they shouldn't get paid what jobs that take experience and knowledge do, but they should be able to make a living wage. They should be allowed to work that job and earn a meager living. Why? Because why the hell would you not want them to? Do you not enjoy going shopping and having a cashier there to check you out? Do you not enjoy going to McDonald's at like 3am when nothing else is open and getting something to eat if you want it? I don't believe ANY necessary to society job, and that means one that society does actually want around for the common good or convenience of it, should be paid a wage they cannot live on.
---

for the record, i didn't mean to be derogatory towards burger flippers or to imply that they shouldn't make a living wage. i was just arguing that the "it's terrible that they get paid less because of illegal immigrants!" argument is entirely dependent on how much they were making in the first place. like, if the argument is "i was making $18/hour with my burger flipping and because of those horrible illegal immigrants i make less now!" i'd say "well, perhaps you were slightly overpaid for this job anyway."
---

RySenkari posted...

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

RySenkari posted...

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

What criteria should we use for determining whether someone who just hops a fence gets to stay?

I don't know, fucking empathy maybe?

They're trespassing and making it harder for similarly-skilled lawful residents to get jobs. Where's your empathy for the people they're displacing?

They're not displacing anybody, nobody has been forced out of America because of these people's presence. And as for making it harder to create jobs? Demand creates jobs, and when you push people out of the country, demand will go down.

People have been passed over for employment because someone from outside the US is willing to do it for cheaper because it's better than whatever is in their home country. And when there's a higher supply of interchangeable workers, the price for that labor goes down.

v_charon posted...

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

They're trespassing and making it harder for similarly-skilled lawful residents to get jobs.

Again, you support deporting a bunch of people who did not even choose to come to this country, yet this is now their home they're being forced to leave it. And your justification is actually thinking that this will cause low-wage companies to offer more money to American citizens. It's a pipe dream. It simply doesn't work that way. You're fooling yourself if you believe for one instance that a wage increase would come on the back of this, federally enforced or by company choice.

Cutting the supply of labor certainly won't decrease its cost, and may increase it. It will also cause there to be less competition for jobs.

Do you have a source that shows that low-skilled and interchangeable labor is somehow an exception to the law of supply and demand?
---

What you're willfully ignoring is the fact that these people are not just workers, but also consumers. In addition to increasing supply they're also increasing demand.
---

I'm not sure I am comfortable with an actual debate in a Full throttle topic. Can you guys make a new topic.
---

How much impact can someone making near minimum wage have on the economy? And what amount of the money stays here vs getting sent to their home countries?
---

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

What number of immigrants do you think the US can support?

As many as want to come?
---

WhoopsyDaisy posted...

How much impact can someone making near minimum wage have on the economy? And what amount of the money stays here vs getting sent to their home countries?

These are children of immigrants, not the immigrants themselves. They are, for all intents and purposes besides their legal status, Americans. They are not all working minimum wage jobs. They are most likely not sending money back to their "home countries" (and they likely consider their home country America).
---