Current Events > transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men

(+) Yeah! (+)

According to a Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist.

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgendered-men-dont-become-women-they-become

“In fact, gender dysphoria—the official psychiatric term for feeling oneself to be of the opposite sex—belongs in the family of similarly disordered assumptions about the body, such as anorexia nervosa and body dysmorphic disorder,” said McHugh.

“Its treatment should not be directed at the body as with surgery and hormones any more than one treats obesity-fearing anorexic patients with liposuction,” he said.
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in
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shitstorm in 3....2....1...
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I'm opening a popcorn stand, anyone want some?
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Let me guess, this is the same psychiatrist everyone keeps quoting despite being dismissed in his field because he has no experience working with transgendered patients?

I mean, given the fact that he's misusing Gender Dysphoria, which is not the term for feeling of the opposite gender but the term for anxiety stemming from the feeling your body does not match your gender(an important distinction as not not all transgenders have GD, and that GD is treatable), it's safe to say we can write him off.

That does make a lot of sense, and I feel that people should be taught ways of feeling comfortable in their own body if that is possible. Gender reassignment should be a last resort.

But for some people, it does seem like they were genuinely born in the wrong body. In cases like that, depriving them of reassignment is inhumane. The trouble is sorting those genuine cases from people that are just troubled and confused.

It is a very complicated issue. :u
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OctilIery posted...

Let me guess, this is the same psychiatrist everyone keeps quoting despite being dismissed in his field because he has no experience working with transgendered patients?

I mean, given the fact that he's misusing Gender Dysphoria, which is not the term for feeling of the opposite gender but the term for anxiety stemming from the feeling your body does not match your gender(an important distinction as not not all transgenders have GD, and that GD is treatable), it's safe to say we can write him off.

Dr. McHugh, who was psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital for 26 years, the medical institute that had initially pioneered sex-change surgery – and later ceased the practice

Seems he has some experience, at least
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

That does make a lot of sense, and I feel that people should be taught ways of feeling comfortable in their own body if that is possible. Gender reassignment should be a last resort.

But for some people, it does seem like they were genuinely born in the wrong body. In cases like that, depriving them of reassignment is inhumane. The trouble is sorting those genuine cases from people that are just troubled and confused.

It is a very complicated issue. :u

or one could learn to deal with life in the body they have. like everyone else has to.

Fam_Fam posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

That does make a lot of sense, and I feel that people should be taught ways of feeling comfortable in their own body if that is possible. Gender reassignment should be a last resort.

But for some people, it does seem like they were genuinely born in the wrong body. In cases like that, depriving them of reassignment is inhumane. The trouble is sorting those genuine cases from people that are just troubled and confused.

It is a very complicated issue. :u

or one could learn to deal with life in the body they have. like everyone else has to.

That is easier said than done though, especially when your perception of your body disagrees with what the reality is. I imagine it is like feeling like your arm shouldn't be there. That sort of feeling has to be hard to ignore.

If it was possible to help these people with just therapy, why isn't that happening? Therapy is much more readily available than sex reassignment surgery is.
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http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/profiles/results/directory/profile/0003340/paul-mchugh
It's the idiot again speaking his mind.
People like sheep flock to him and chant his slogans.

My understanding is that it's never been about becoming something but rather making the outside match what's already on the inside
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no evidence supports the claim that people such as Bruce Jenner have a biological source for their transgender assumptions. Plenty of evidence demonstrates that with him and most others, transgendering is a psychological rather than a biological matter.

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/06/15145/

this is that one guy conservatives source on this topic lol
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Nazanir posted...

I'm opening a popcorn stand, anyone want some?

I'll take three
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@gunplagirl
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chill02 posted...

Nazanir posted...

I'm opening a popcorn stand, anyone want some?

I'll take three

You sell coffee? Anything with caffeine, really.
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OctilIery posted...

it's safe to say we can write him off.

Yes I'll take the opinion of some random dude on the internet over an actual Psychiatrist about a psychological question every day.
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shockthemonkey posted...

Howl posted...

OctilIery posted...

it's safe to say we can write him off.

Yes I'll take the opinion of some random dude on the internet over an actual Psychiatrist about a psychological question every day.

What about the rest of psychologists who work directly in this field and disagree with this guy?

I'm not seeing anything from them itt.
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Going out of your way to tell a person you know is anorexic that they look fat still makes you a shitty person.

I just don't get why people can't just like, live the lives they want in the body they have. :u Like, if you wanna be a girl live your life as a girl. No reason to mutilate your penis. That penis was a gift from God! Just tuck it between your legs.
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Also, transgender is not a verb. People are not "transgendered"
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and what if you get a vagina and end up not liking it? :u buyer's remorse? They can't undo it either!
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shockthemonkey posted...

It's like the Climate Change debate. Congrats on finding someone who disagrees with 97% of data.

Literally zero data has been presented arguing against what is in the OP.
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thelovefist posted...

@gunplagirl

Well this will insure this thread will be a shitstorm
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He speaks the truth.

Chemical and surgical mutilations should be against the law.
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thanosibe posted...

thelovefist posted...

@gunplagirl

Well this will insure this thread will be a shitstorm

I expect them fully to present an argument that has no basis in fact.
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eston posted...

My understanding is that it's never been about becoming something but rather making the outside match what's already on the inside

Nope. SOMETIMES, a PORTION of the brain makeup is similar to the opposite gender, but nothing 'inside' is different than the genitals show, right down to the DNA.
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Howl posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

Howl posted...

OctilIery posted...

it's safe to say we can write him off.

Yes I'll take the opinion of some random dude on the internet over an actual Psychiatrist about a psychological question every day.

What about the rest of psychologists who work directly in this field and disagree with this guy?

I'm not seeing anything from them itt.

Do you have access to that Google thing?
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darkjedilink posted...

Literally zero data has been presented arguing against what is in the OP.

There's literally mountains of evidence that there are sexually dimorphic organizational and features of the brain and that these features are organized very early on in prenatal development and remain relatively nonplastic throughout the rest of the lifespan. There's evidence that early perterbations with develpment can shift these organizational features into one direction or the other, and there's no reorganization possible.

There's plenty of correlational evidence measuring transgenderism in-vivo, though this data is complicated and messy, since it's correlational with technology that is inherently limited. Anyone claiming that there's no reason to believe transgenderism is an inherently biological condition is arguing politically, not scientifically.
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Well no, but it's what they really want so if they're dedicated it's not that hard to just say the opposite pronoun.


It's not like they're asking you to support all the special snowflakes
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COVxy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Literally zero data has been presented arguing against what is in the OP.

There's literally mountains of evidence that there are sexually dimorphic organizational and features of the brain and that these features are organized very early on in prenatal development and remain relatively nonplastic throughout the rest of the lifespan. There's evidence that early perterbations with develpment can shift these organizational features into one direction or the other, and there's no reorganization possible.

There's plenty of correlational evidence measuring transgenderism in-vivo, though this data is complicated and messy, since it's correlational with technology that is inherently limited. Anyone claiming that there's no reason to believe transgenderism is an inherently biological condition is arguing politically, not scientifically.

Then present some.
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thelovefist posted...

gunplagirl

The last thing I want in this topic is one of the two worst trans ideologues shitposting up a storm (The other being Sayoria, but I digress).

Anyways, this Psych is regarded as an iconoclast in the field of psychology for his views on Transgenderism and certainly does not represent the current scientific consensus.

To speak plainly, the best result for patients suffering Gender Dysphoria has historically and statistically been hormonal and surgical transitioning. That is the biggest reason why the consensus treatment is transitioning for most cases, because it works. Psychologists aren't of the profession to prove the philosophical merits of a persons gender identity, their concern is improving the lives of their patients through diagnosis and treatment.
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darkjedilink posted...

Then present some.

It wouldn't take you much to google if you'd actually want to educate yourself, there are may articles regarding sexual dimorphism and the brain meant for laymen.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/his-brain-her-brain-2012-10-23/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/
http://www.brainfacts.org/Brain-Basics/Neuroanatomy/Articles/2014/His-and-Hers-Sex-Differences-in-the-Brain
(I imagine you might find yourself stuck on the wording about uniqueness of the transgender brain, but it's kind of a red herring. The evidence suggests something has gone wrong during the traditional development of sexually dimorphic characteristics, and this is likely related to the pervasive claim of perceived identity)

Scientific American is a pretty good source for these things, science being presented in an accurate but digestible form.

(Edit, added another link to brainfacts.org, mainly because when closing my google search tabs I noticed the link, and wanted to point that website out to you. It's run by SfN, and also provides some very accurate and digestible information)
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Duh. Sorry guys, you're stuck as one.
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The guy doesn't even have the vocab right.

Trans men would have been considered girls at birth

And trans women would have been considered boys at birth

So he's right about them not becoming such and such, but not for any reason he provided.
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thelovefist posted...

@gunplagirl

I told you never to tag me again
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gunplagirl posted...

The guy doesn't even have the vocab right.

Trans men would have been considered girls at birth

And trans women would have been considered boys at birth

So he's right about them not becoming such and such, but not for any reason he provided.

There we have it folks...
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

thelovefist posted...

gunplagirl

The last thing I want in this topic is one of the two worst trans ideologues shitposting up a storm (The other being Sayoria, but I digress).

Anyways, this Psych is regarded as an iconoclast in the field of psychology for his views on Transgenderism and certainly does not represent the current scientific consensus.

To speak plainly, the best result for patients suffering Gender Dysphoria has historically and statistically been hormonal and surgical transitioning. That is the biggest reason why the consensus treatment is transitioning for most cases, because it works. Psychologists aren't of the profession to prove the philosophical merits of a persons gender identity, their concern is improving the lives of their patients through diagnosis and treatment.

And with that I guess there's enough people on CE that get it to make my being here a waste of my time. Not gonna get stuck in an endless chat loop this time. Especially not when I can't breathe thanks to a fire nearby that some kid started. :(
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gunplagirl posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

thelovefist posted...

gunplagirl

The last thing I want in this topic is one of the two worst trans ideologues shitposting up a storm (The other being Sayoria, but I digress).

Anyways, this Psych is regarded as an iconoclast in the field of psychology for his views on Transgenderism and certainly does not represent the current scientific consensus.

To speak plainly, the best result for patients suffering Gender Dysphoria has historically and statistically been hormonal and surgical transitioning. That is the biggest reason why the consensus treatment is transitioning for most cases, because it works. Psychologists aren't of the profession to prove the philosophical merits of a persons gender identity, their concern is improving the lives of their patients through diagnosis and treatment.

And with that I guess there's enough people on CE that get it to make my being here a waste of my time. Not gonna get stuck in an endless chat loop this time. Especially not when I can't breathe thanks to a fire nearby that some kid started. :(

I wouldn't call your posts a waste of time.
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Isn't this the same guy who also claimed homosexuality was a mental disorder?
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darkjedilink posted...

@shockthemonkey posted...

It's like the Climate Change debate. Congrats on finding someone who disagrees with 97% of data.

Literally zero data has been presented arguing against what is in the OP.

^^^This. A better analogy would be to compare what is being stated in the OP to being the "Climate Change," with there just being a lot of people who rely on appeal to emotions to ignore the actual science and psychology behind transgenderism. It was considered to officially be a mental disorder for decades for a reason. It's not hard to see why either.

This is a very "fair, next" topic.
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The real question is who gives a shit?

Why should it matter if a dude wants to live as a woman or a woman wants to live as a dude?
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shockthemonkey posted...

Howl posted...

OctilIery posted...

it's safe to say we can write him off.

Yes I'll take the opinion of some random dude on the internet over an actual Psychiatrist about a psychological question every day.

What about the rest of psychologists who work directly in this field and disagree with this guy?

Those people arent credible
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I think most of us realize they don't actually become the opposite sex. A transwoman will never be the same as a natural-born woman. That's not an excuse to treat them poorly or anything, but it's a biological fact.
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COVxy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Then present some.

It wouldn't take you much to google if you'd actually want to educate yourself, there are may articles regarding sexual dimorphism and the brain meant for laymen.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/his-brain-her-brain-2012-10-23/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/
http://www.brainfacts.org/Brain-Basics/Neuroanatomy/Articles/2014/His-and-Hers-Sex-Differences-in-the-Brain
(I imagine you might find yourself stuck on the wording about uniqueness of the transgender brain, but it's kind of a red herring. The evidence suggests something has gone wrong during the traditional development of sexually dimorphic characteristics, and this is likely related to the pervasive claim of perceived identity)

Scientific American is a pretty good source for these things, science being presented in an accurate but digestible form.

(Edit, added another link to brainfacts.org, mainly because when closing my google search tabs I noticed the link, and wanted to point that website out to you. It's run by SfN, and also provides some very accurate and digestible information)

I've read them all a few times, and have yet to come away with this idea that they contradict the OP.

I take from them the idea that there is a brain chemistry issue to be studied with the idea of finding a treatment or cure for the underlying chemical imbalance - not that we, as a society, need to feed delusions caused by such.
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