Current Events > Georgia Tech LGBT student leader KILLED; approached COP with KNIFE DRAWN

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Callixtus 09/19/17 12:02:38 PM #1:	A campus police officer shot and killed the president of a gay and transgender student group outside a Georgia Tech dormitory in Atlanta on Sunday. A cellphone video shared widely online showed the student, who was believed to be holding a knife, yelling “shoot me” at the officers before one opened fire. The student, Scout Schultz, 21, died at a local hospital from a single gunshot wound, according to a statement by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which is investigating the altercation. The killing, which happened in full view of students in the dormitory, immediately raised questions about why the campus police were so quick to use deadly force. After what the university called a peaceful vigil for Schultz on Monday night at Georgia Tech, about 50 people marched to the campus Police Department, where a police car was set on fire and two officers received minor injuries, the authorities said. Three people were arrested on charges of inciting a riot and battery of an officer. At one point, the university urged students to stay inside because of the violence. The statement released earlier by the Bureau of Investigation referred to Schultz as male. According to the website of the Georgia Tech Pride Alliance, the student identified as “bisexual, nonbinary, and intersex” and used the pronoun “they.” Intersex is a condition in which a person’s physical sex characteristics do not align with typical notions of male and female. It was Schultz who called 911 to report a suspicious white male with long blonde hair on campus holding a knife and possibly a gun, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said. After the shooting, investigators found three suicide notes in the student’s dorm room, the agency said. In an interview with The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Lynne Schultz, the student’s mother, asked why the police were so quick to kill her child, who she said suffered from depression and had attempted suicide in the past. “Why didn’t they use some nonlethal force, like pepper spray or Tasers?” Ms. Schultz asked the paper. Lance Wallace, a university spokesman, said Georgia Tech campus police do not carry Tasers but they do carry pepper spray. L. Chris Stewart, a lawyer for the Schultz family, criticized the university for not providing officers with more nonlethal tools and said the killing would not have happened if campus police officers were properly trained to handle mental illness “From the video you can see Scout is in the middle of the mental breakdown and telling the officers to shoot,” he said. “Four of them did not listen to that and continued to do their job, to de-escalate the situation, but one of them decided to take Scout’s life.” --- Liberal Arrogance:Academics are overwhelmingly liberal because the nature of the job, seeking information for the good of humanity, self selects liberals--COVxy <cite>Callixtus posted [p:886888361] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><quote> A campus police officer shot and killed the president of a gay and transgender student group outside a Georgia Tech dormitory in Atlanta on Sunday. A cellphone video shared widely online showed the student, who was believed to be holding a knife, yelling “shoot me” at the officers before one opened fire. The student, Scout Schultz, 21, died at a local hospital from a single gunshot wound, according to a statement by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which is investigating the altercation. The killing, which happened in full view of students in the dormitory, immediately raised questions about why the campus police were so quick to use deadly force. After what the university called a peaceful vigil for Schultz on Monday night at Georgia Tech, about 50 people marched to the campus Police Department, where a police car was set on fire and two officers received minor injuries, the authorities said. Three people were arrested on charges of inciting a riot and battery of an officer. At one point, the university urged students to stay inside because of the violence. The statement released earlier by the Bureau of Investigation referred to Schultz as male. According to the website of the Georgia Tech Pride Alliance, the student identified as “bisexual, nonbinary, and intersex” and used the pronoun “they.” Intersex is a condition in which a person’s physical sex characteristics do not align with typical notions of male and female. It was Schultz who called 911 to report a suspicious white male with long blonde hair on campus holding a knife and possibly a gun, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said. After the shooting, investigators found three suicide notes in the student’s dorm room, the agency said. In an interview with The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Lynne Schultz, the student’s mother, asked why the police were so quick to kill her child, who she said suffered from depression and had attempted suicide in the past. “Why didn’t they use some nonlethal force, like pepper spray or Tasers?” Ms. Schultz asked the paper. Lance Wallace, a university spokesman, said Georgia Tech campus police do not carry Tasers but they do carry pepper spray. L. Chris Stewart, a lawyer for the Schultz family, criticized the university for not providing officers with more nonlethal tools and said the killing would not have happened if campus police officers were properly trained to handle mental illness “From the video you can see Scout is in the middle of the mental breakdown and telling the officers to shoot,” he said. “Four of them did not listen to that and continued to do their job, to de-escalate the situation, but one of them decided to take Scout’s life.”</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squidkids 09/19/17 12:03:24 PM #2:	fair and was posted before --- Be a team player, guard those super jump rings. See a team member inking a wall to swim up on? ink with them. Ink your foes into ash. http://tinyurl.com/z7hbzrr <cite>Squidkids posted [p:886888408] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>fair and was posted before</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Fam_Fam 09/19/17 12:03:57 PM #3:	Callixtus posted... A campus police officer shot and killed the president of a gay and transgender student group outside a Georgia Tech dormitory in Atlanta on Sunday. A cellphone video shared widely online showed the student, who was believed to be holding a knife, yelling “shoot me” at the officers before one opened fire. The student, Scout Schultz, 21, died at a local hospital from a single gunshot wound, according to a statement by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which is investigating the altercation. The killing, which happened in full view of students in the dormitory, immediately raised questions about why the campus police were so quick to use deadly force. After what the university called a peaceful vigil for Schultz on Monday night at Georgia Tech, about 50 people marched to the campus Police Department, where a police car was set on fire and two officers received minor injuries, the authorities said. Three people were arrested on charges of inciting a riot and battery of an officer. At one point, the university urged students to stay inside because of the violence. The statement released earlier by the Bureau of Investigation referred to Schultz as male. According to the website of the Georgia Tech Pride Alliance, the student identified as “bisexual, nonbinary, and intersex” and used the pronoun “they.” Intersex is a condition in which a person’s physical sex characteristics do not align with typical notions of male and female. It was Schultz who called 911 to report a suspicious white male with long blonde hair on campus holding a knife and possibly a gun, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said. After the shooting, investigators found three suicide notes in the student’s dorm room, the agency said. In an interview with The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Lynne Schultz, the student’s mother, asked why the police were so quick to kill her child, who she said suffered from depression and had attempted suicide in the past. “Why didn’t they use some nonlethal force, like pepper spray or Tasers?” Ms. Schultz asked the paper. Lance Wallace, a university spokesman, said Georgia Tech campus police do not carry Tasers but they do carry pepper spray. L. Chris Stewart, a lawyer for the Schultz family, criticized the university for not providing officers with more nonlethal tools and said the killing would not have happened if campus police officers were properly trained to handle mental illness “From the video you can see Scout is in the middle of the mental breakdown and telling the officers to shoot,” he said. “Four of them did not listen to that and continued to do their job, to de-escalate the situation, but one of them decided to take Scout’s life.” fair, next <cite>Fam_Fam posted [p:886888442] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote><quote> A campus police officer shot and killed the president of a gay and transgender student group outside a Georgia Tech dormitory in Atlanta on Sunday. A cellphone video shared widely online showed the student, who was believed to be holding a knife, yelling “shoot me” at the officers before one opened fire. The student, Scout Schultz, 21, died at a local hospital from a single gunshot wound, according to a statement by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which is investigating the altercation. The killing, which happened in full view of students in the dormitory, immediately raised questions about why the campus police were so quick to use deadly force. After what the university called a peaceful vigil for Schultz on Monday night at Georgia Tech, about 50 people marched to the campus Police Department, where a police car was set on fire and two officers received minor injuries, the authorities said. Three people were arrested on charges of inciting a riot and battery of an officer. At one point, the university urged students to stay inside because of the violence. The statement released earlier by the Bureau of Investigation referred to Schultz as male. According to the website of the Georgia Tech Pride Alliance, the student identified as “bisexual, nonbinary, and intersex” and used the pronoun “they.” Intersex is a condition in which a person’s physical sex characteristics do not align with typical notions of male and female. It was Schultz who called 911 to report a suspicious white male with long blonde hair on campus holding a knife and possibly a gun, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said. After the shooting, investigators found three suicide notes in the student’s dorm room, the agency said. In an interview with The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Lynne Schultz, the student’s mother, asked why the police were so quick to kill her child, who she said suffered from depression and had attempted suicide in the past. “Why didn’t they use some nonlethal force, like pepper spray or Tasers?” Ms. Schultz asked the paper. Lance Wallace, a university spokesman, said Georgia Tech campus police do not carry Tasers but they do carry pepper spray. L. Chris Stewart, a lawyer for the Schultz family, criticized the university for not providing officers with more nonlethal tools and said the killing would not have happened if campus police officers were properly trained to handle mental illness “From the video you can see Scout is in the middle of the mental breakdown and telling the officers to shoot,” he said. “Four of them did not listen to that and continued to do their job, to de-escalate the situation, but one of them decided to take Scout’s life.”</quote></quote> fair, next</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 09/19/17 12:04:09 PM #4:	I, too, can capitalize things in a distorted relay of information --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:886888455] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>I, too, can capitalize things in a distorted relay of information</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CommonStar 09/19/17 12:04:54 PM #5:	If s/he was holding a knife or something resembling a knife and then approaching the officer taunting him to shoot, then she's a idiot. It doesn't matter if she's LGBT or not, that's just a dumbass move. <cite>CommonStar posted [p:886888495] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>If s/he was holding a knife or something resembling a knife and then approaching the officer taunting him to shoot, then she's a idiot. It doesn't matter if she's LGBT or not, that's just a dumbass move.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 09/19/17 12:05:07 PM #6:	gunplagirl posted... I, too, can capitalize things in a distorted relay of information Nothing was distorted --- Liberal Arrogance:Academics are overwhelmingly liberal because the nature of the job, seeking information for the good of humanity, self selects liberals--COVxy <cite>Callixtus posted [p:886888501] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>I, too, can capitalize things in a distorted relay of information</quote> Nothing was distorted</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Im_JustMe0129 09/19/17 12:05:19 PM #7:	Horrible. Absolutely horrible. Sounds like a suicide by police type of thing. <cite>Im_JustMe0129 posted [p:886888514] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Horrible. Absolutely horrible. Sounds like a suicide by police type of thing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mistere Man 09/19/17 12:05:28 PM #8:	Sounds like they wanted suicide by cop. --- Water+Fall=Radiation. <cite>Mistere Man posted [p:886888521] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Sounds like they wanted suicide by cop.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cj_WlLL_VVlN 09/19/17 12:06:16 PM #9:	Within 21 feet an assailant will close the distance and slice you up before you can draw and fire. A knife if a lethal weapon. This is the fairest of next. --- The gamefaqs moderation team knows dogs capable of being offended, cant laugh at a joke, and like to punish jokes that are acceptable on prime time TV pg shows. <cite>Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted [p:886888565] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Within 21 feet an assailant will close the distance and slice you up before you can draw and fire. A knife if a lethal weapon. This is the fairest of next.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HypnoCoosh 09/19/17 12:07:11 PM #10:	Fair next. --- We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. - C.S. Lewis <cite>HypnoCoosh posted [p:886888609] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Fair next.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
John_Galt 09/19/17 12:07:33 PM #11:	Fair, next --- Who is John Galt? <cite>John_Galt posted [p:886888630] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Fair, next</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DreadedWave 09/19/17 12:08:00 PM #12:	Im_JustMe0129 posted... Horrible. Absolutely horrible. Sounds like a suicide by police type of thing. They'd written suicide notes, it literally was this. Still sad. --- https://i.imgur.com/E6BqEBZ.jpg <cite>DreadedWave posted [p:886888650] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Im_JustMe0129 posted...</cite> <quote>Horrible. Absolutely horrible. Sounds like a suicide by police type of thing.</quote> They'd written suicide notes, it literally was this. Still sad.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
eston 09/19/17 12:10:08 PM #13:	I didn't watch the video so I don't know how actually aggressive the student was being or how much imminent danger was being presented, but in general I feel like in situations where it's obvious the person is trying to get the cops to kill them, they should work a little harder to de-escalate if at all possible. I'm not gonna say the police were completely wrong here, but I wonder if they could have done better. Also, fuck those people who set a police car on fire, that type of stuff doesn't help --- http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/estonc/grizzly_bear_chairs_2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8kjZU.jpg <cite>eston posted [p:886888769] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>I didn't watch the video so I don't know how actually aggressive the student was being or how much imminent danger was being presented, but in general I feel like in situations where it's obvious the person is trying to get the cops to kill them, they should work a little harder to de-escalate if at all possible. I'm not gonna say the police were completely wrong here, but I wonder if they could have done better. Also, fuck those people who set a police car on fire, that type of stuff doesn't help</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Raikuro 09/19/17 12:10:16 PM #14:	Callixtus posted... holding a knife, yelling “shoot me” Squidkids posted... fair Fam_Fam posted... fair, next Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted... This is the fairest of next. HypnoCoosh posted... Fair next. So if someone is standing on the ledge of a tall building, police would be obligated to go up there and push them off? <cite>Raikuro posted [p:886888773] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>holding a knife, yelling “shoot me”</quote> <cite>Squidkids posted...</cite> <quote>fair</quote> <cite>Fam_Fam posted...</cite> <quote>fair, next</quote> <cite>Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...</cite> <quote>This is the fairest of next.</quote> <cite>HypnoCoosh posted...</cite> <quote>Fair next.</quote> So if someone is standing on the ledge of a tall building, police would be obligated to go up there and push them off?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dustin1280 09/19/17 12:11:28 PM #15:	already posted and here was my response: Dustin1280 posted... Sure the cop could have ATTEMPTED to non-lethally detain this person, but that is by no means what they should have done. A crazy person brandishing a knife was ignoring warnings and continuing to approach them all the while yelling SHOOT ME. The cops handled it exactly as they SHOULD HAVE. Would it have been nice if they attempted non-lethal means, sure, but I definitely don't blame them for resolving the threatening situation the way they did... --- Smash DS Code: 4554-0120-5368 SB4 Name: Roz RIP: Orlando of the Axe Karma: 1642 --he delivered! <cite>Dustin1280 posted [p:886888835] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>already posted and here was my response: <cite>Dustin1280 posted...</cite> <quote>Sure the cop could have ATTEMPTED to non-lethally detain this person, but that is by no means what they should have done. A crazy person brandishing a knife was ignoring warnings and continuing to approach them all the while yelling SHOOT ME. The cops handled it exactly as they SHOULD HAVE. Would it have been nice if they attempted non-lethal means, sure, but I definitely don't blame them for resolving the threatening situation the way they did...</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DreadedWave 09/19/17 12:12:14 PM #16:	Raikuro posted... So if someone is standing on the ledge of a tall building, police would be obligated to go up there and push them off? That's not the same situation at all... Are they gonna Judo flip the cops off the ledge or something? --- https://i.imgur.com/E6BqEBZ.jpg <cite>DreadedWave posted [p:886888870] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Raikuro posted...</cite> <quote>So if someone is standing on the ledge of a tall building, police would be obligated to go up there and push them off?</quote> That's not the same situation at all... Are they gonna Judo flip the cops off the ledge or something?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pinky0926 09/19/17 12:13:49 PM #17:	CommonStar posted... If s/he was holding a knife or something resembling a knife and then approaching the officer taunting him to shoot, then she's a idiot. It doesn't matter if she's LGBT or not, that's just a dumbass move. It was suicide by cop. This person wanted to get killed, I think. --- CE's Resident Scotsman. http://i.imgur.com/ILz2ZbV.jpg <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:886888938] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>CommonStar posted...</cite> <quote>If s/he was holding a knife or something resembling a knife and then approaching the officer taunting him to shoot, then she's a idiot. It doesn't matter if she's LGBT or not, that's just a dumbass move.</quote> It was suicide by cop. This person wanted to get killed, I think.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SageHarpuia 09/19/17 12:14:06 PM #18:	Fair; next. --- My name is Harpuia, one of the four Guardians of Master X and General of the Strong Air Battalion, The Rekku Army. <cite>SageHarpuia posted [p:886888959] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Fair; next.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LightHawKnight 09/19/17 12:14:57 PM #19:	Raikuro posted... Callixtus posted... holding a knife, yelling “shoot me” Squidkids posted... fair Fam_Fam posted... fair, next Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted... This is the fairest of next. HypnoCoosh posted... Fair next. So if someone is standing on the ledge of a tall building, police would be obligated to go up there and push them off? Clearly the same situation. Cause you know a person on the ledge has a weapon and is within attacking range. --- The Official Odin of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board. "You know how confusing the whole good-evil concept is for me." <cite>LightHawKnight posted [p:886889002] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Raikuro posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>holding a knife, yelling “shoot me”</quote> <cite>Squidkids posted...</cite> <quote>fair</quote> <cite>Fam_Fam posted...</cite> <quote>fair, next</quote> <cite>Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...</cite> <quote>This is the fairest of next.</quote> <cite>HypnoCoosh posted...</cite> <quote>Fair next.</quote> So if someone is standing on the ledge of a tall building, police would be obligated to go up there and push them off?</quote> Clearly the same situation. Cause you know a person on the ledge has a weapon and is within attacking range.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pinky0926 09/19/17 12:16:06 PM #20:	eston posted... I didn't watch the video so I don't know how actually aggressive the student was being or how much imminent danger was being presented, but in general I feel like in situations where it's obvious the person is trying to get the cops to kill them, they should work a little harder to de-escalate if at all possible. I'm not gonna say the police were completely wrong here, but I wonder if they could have done better. Also, fuck those people who set a police car on fire, that type of stuff doesn't help I watched it. The person was clearly not "all there", and within about 15-20 feet of the cop. The person ignored several warnings to not move and drop the knife, instead approaching several of the officers a good half a dozen times. I'm no expert but I think if someone who's not all there is that close to you with a knife and trying to move closer, you have a good reason to fear for your life. I'd say it's really unfortunate it ended this way, but I don't blame the cops. --- CE's Resident Scotsman. http://i.imgur.com/ILz2ZbV.jpg <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:886889066] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>eston posted...</cite> <quote>I didn't watch the video so I don't know how actually aggressive the student was being or how much imminent danger was being presented, but in general I feel like in situations where it's obvious the person is trying to get the cops to kill them, they should work a little harder to de-escalate if at all possible. I'm not gonna say the police were completely wrong here, but I wonder if they could have done better. Also, fuck those people who set a police car on fire, that type of stuff doesn't help</quote> I watched it. The person was clearly not "all there", and within about 15-20 feet of the cop. The person ignored several warnings to not move and drop the knife, instead approaching several of the officers a good half a dozen times. I'm no expert but I think if someone who's not all there is that close to you with a knife and trying to move closer, you have a good reason to fear for your life. I'd say it's really unfortunate it ended this way, but I don't blame the cops.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Raikuro 09/19/17 12:22:21 PM #21:	LightHawKnight posted... Cause you know a person on the ledge has a weapon and is within attacking range. Their body can be a danger to people on the ground. Not saying the cops are entirely in the wrong, but this sounds like a situation tasers are made for, yet none were even used. <cite>Raikuro posted [p:886889357] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>LightHawKnight posted...</cite> <quote>Cause you know a person on the ledge has a weapon and is within attacking range.</quote> Their body can be a danger to people on the ground. Not saying the cops are entirely in the wrong, but this sounds like a situation tasers are made for, yet none were even used.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
eston 09/19/17 12:22:43 PM #22:	pinky0926 posted... eston posted... I didn't watch the video so I don't know how actually aggressive the student was being or how much imminent danger was being presented, but in general I feel like in situations where it's obvious the person is trying to get the cops to kill them, they should work a little harder to de-escalate if at all possible. I'm not gonna say the police were completely wrong here, but I wonder if they could have done better. Also, fuck those people who set a police car on fire, that type of stuff doesn't help I watched it. The person was clearly not "all there", and within about 15-20 feet of the cop. The person ignored several warnings to not move and drop the knife, instead approaching several of the officers a good half a dozen times. I'm no expert but I think if someone who's not all there is that close to you with a knife and trying to move closer, you have a good reason to fear for your life. I'd say it's really unfortunate it ended this way, but I don't blame the cops. I'm not blaming them either, I just wonder if there was another way. Someone who chooses to commit suicide this way is putting themselves in a position to be talked down. Maybe he/she was a legit threat, maybe not. There's no way of knowing, especially in the heat of the moment like that. --- http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/estonc/grizzly_bear_chairs_2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8kjZU.jpg <cite>eston posted [p:886889377] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>pinky0926 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>eston posted...</cite> <quote>I didn't watch the video so I don't know how actually aggressive the student was being or how much imminent danger was being presented, but in general I feel like in situations where it's obvious the person is trying to get the cops to kill them, they should work a little harder to de-escalate if at all possible. I'm not gonna say the police were completely wrong here, but I wonder if they could have done better. Also, fuck those people who set a police car on fire, that type of stuff doesn't help</quote> I watched it. The person was clearly not "all there", and within about 15-20 feet of the cop. The person ignored several warnings to not move and drop the knife, instead approaching several of the officers a good half a dozen times. I'm no expert but I think if someone who's not all there is that close to you with a knife and trying to move closer, you have a good reason to fear for your life. I'd say it's really unfortunate it ended this way, but I don't blame the cops.</quote> I'm not blaming them either, I just wonder if there was another way. Someone who chooses to commit suicide this way is putting themselves in a position to be talked down. Maybe he/she was a legit threat, maybe not. There's no way of knowing, especially in the heat of the moment like that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suchomimus 09/19/17 12:23:19 PM #23:	Fair, next. --- I'm a peasant. <cite>Suchomimus posted [p:886889400] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Fair, next.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BuckVanHammer 09/19/17 12:23:41 PM #24:	Ya she was being a dummy, but shot in the heart wasn't needed. Lack of training is to blame. --- I bet Ronald McDonald is real tired of kickin it with dying brats... <cite>BuckVanHammer posted [p:886889414] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Ya she was being a dummy, but shot in the heart wasn't needed. Lack of training is to blame.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dustin1280 09/19/17 12:24:23 PM #25:	Raikuro posted... LightHawKnight posted... Cause you know a person on the ledge has a weapon and is within attacking range. Their body can be a danger to people on the ground. Not saying the cops are entirely in the wrong, but this sounds like a situation tasers are made for, yet none were even used. Taser's can misfire and taser's don't always stop the assailant. The assailant who was clearly deranged and posed an imminent threat to the officers. Do I WISH it could have ended differently, sure. But I still thing the cops made the right choice. --- Smash DS Code: 4554-0120-5368 SB4 Name: Roz RIP: Orlando of the Axe Karma: 1642 --he delivered! <cite>Dustin1280 posted [p:886889447] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Raikuro posted...</cite> <quote><cite>LightHawKnight posted...</cite> <quote>Cause you know a person on the ledge has a weapon and is within attacking range.</quote> Their body can be a danger to people on the ground. Not saying the cops are entirely in the wrong, but this sounds like a situation tasers are made for, yet none were even used.</quote> Taser's can misfire and taser's don't always stop the assailant. The assailant who was clearly deranged and posed an imminent threat to the officers. Do I WISH it could have ended differently, sure. But I still thing the cops made the right choice.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TrollSlayer11 09/19/17 12:25:04 PM #26:	Suicide by cop by someone who was mentally deranged. The fairest of nexts. --- Sunglasses and advil <cite>TrollSlayer11 posted [p:886889486] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Suicide by cop by someone who was mentally deranged. The fairest of nexts.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KrustyTheClown 09/19/17 12:36:44 PM #28:	Cops in so many other countries can handle situations like this without immediately resorting to killing the person. American police are garbage. --- 1, 2, 3, and to the 4. <cite>KrustyTheClown posted [p:886890136] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Cops in so many other countries can handle situations like this without immediately resorting to killing the person. American police are garbage.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pinky0926 09/19/17 12:36:50 PM #29:	eston posted... I'm not blaming them either, I just wonder if there was another way. Someone who chooses to commit suicide this way is putting themselves in a position to be talked down. Maybe he/she was a legit threat, maybe not. There's no way of knowing, especially in the heat of the moment like that. I do have to wonder what British police typically do in this scenario. They obviously get by just fine without going for the gun. I suppose nobody would bother trying death by cop in the UK unless they wanted to be slowly clobbered to death. --- CE's Resident Scotsman. http://i.imgur.com/ILz2ZbV.jpg <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:886890145] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>eston posted...</cite> <quote>I'm not blaming them either, I just wonder if there was another way. Someone who chooses to commit suicide this way is putting themselves in a position to be talked down. Maybe he/she was a legit threat, maybe not. There's no way of knowing, especially in the heat of the moment like that.</quote> I do have to wonder what British police typically do in this scenario. They obviously get by just fine without going for the gun. I suppose nobody would bother trying death by cop in the UK unless they wanted to be slowly clobbered to death.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LightHawKnight 09/19/17 12:42:36 PM #30:	Raikuro posted... LightHawKnight posted... Cause you know a person on the ledge has a weapon and is within attacking range. Their body can be a danger to people on the ground. Not saying the cops are entirely in the wrong, but this sounds like a situation tasers are made for, yet none were even used. Tasers can kill, are inaccurate, don't always work, and only get one shot off before you need to take a long time to reload. Which is why a lot of places don't use them. --- The Official Odin of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board. "You know how confusing the whole good-evil concept is for me." <cite>LightHawKnight posted [p:886890456] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Raikuro posted...</cite> <quote><cite>LightHawKnight posted...</cite> <quote>Cause you know a person on the ledge has a weapon and is within attacking range.</quote> Their body can be a danger to people on the ground. Not saying the cops are entirely in the wrong, but this sounds like a situation tasers are made for, yet none were even used.</quote> Tasers can kill, are inaccurate, don't always work, and only get one shot off before you need to take a long time to reload. Which is why a lot of places don't use them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nomadic View 09/19/17 12:48:54 PM #31:	I haven't read the article, but from what I heard about it (1)he called the police, (2)gave the police a description of himself, (3)told the police that the offender had a knife and a gun, (3) when police arrived he was combative and uncooperative, (4) he held an unidentifiable object in his hand, and (5) he has a history of attempted suicide --- {}\\{}(o){}\\//{}//=\\{})){}(< \\//{}{{-{}//\\{} {}xxxxxxxx{};;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;> <cite>Nomadic View posted [p:886890796] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>I haven't read the article, but from what I heard about it (1)he called the police, (2)gave the police a description of himself, (3)told the police that the offender had a knife and a gun, (3) when police arrived he was combative and uncooperative, (4) he held an unidentifiable object in his hand, and (5) he has a history of attempted suicide</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Santorin 09/19/17 12:50:01 PM #32:	Fair, next. --- I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided; and that is the lamp of experience. Patrick Henry <cite>Santorin posted [p:886890865] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Fair, next.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KrustyTheClown 09/19/17 12:54:08 PM #33:	Nomadic View posted... I haven't read the article, but from what I heard about it (1)he called the police, (2)gave the police a description of himself, (3)told the police that the offender had a knife and a gun, (3) when police arrived he was combative and uncooperative, (4) he held an unidentifiable object in his hand, and (5) he has a history of attempted suicide Kinda sad that mentally ill people are capable of exploiting our poorly trained police like that. Something has to change. --- 1, 2, 3, and to the 4. <cite>KrustyTheClown posted [p:886891095] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Nomadic View posted...</cite> <quote>I haven't read the article, but from what I heard about it (1)he called the police, (2)gave the police a description of himself, (3)told the police that the offender had a knife and a gun, (3) when police arrived he was combative and uncooperative, (4) he held an unidentifiable object in his hand, and (5) he has a history of attempted suicide</quote> Kinda sad that mentally ill people are capable of exploiting our poorly trained police like that. Something has to change.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DiegoSanchez206 09/19/17 12:55:58 PM #34:	KrustyTheClown posted... Nomadic View posted... I haven't read the article, but from what I heard about it (1)he called the police, (2)gave the police a description of himself, (3)told the police that the offender had a knife and a gun, (3) when police arrived he was combative and uncooperative, (4) he held an unidentifiable object in his hand, and (5) he has a history of attempted suicide Kinda sad that mentally ill people are capable of exploiting our poorly trained police like that. Something has to change. So sad that liberals think the are super human and think they can live through a knife attack to the neck. --- Down goes Ohio State! https://youtu.be/IRqr8X6w6bo <cite>DiegoSanchez206 posted [p:886891208] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>KrustyTheClown posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Nomadic View posted...</cite> <quote>I haven't read the article, but from what I heard about it (1)he called the police, (2)gave the police a description of himself, (3)told the police that the offender had a knife and a gun, (3) when police arrived he was combative and uncooperative, (4) he held an unidentifiable object in his hand, and (5) he has a history of attempted suicide</quote> Kinda sad that mentally ill people are capable of exploiting our poorly trained police like that. Something has to change.</quote> So sad that liberals think the are super human and think they can live through a knife attack to the neck.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DiegoSanchez206 09/19/17 12:58:30 PM #35:	Raikuro posted... Callixtus posted... holding a knife, yelling “shoot me” Squidkids posted... fair Fam_Fam posted... fair, next Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted... This is the fairest of next. HypnoCoosh posted... Fair next. So if someone is standing on the ledge of a tall building, police would be obligated to go up there and push them off? Swing and a miss! Good try, slugger! --- Down goes Ohio State! https://youtu.be/IRqr8X6w6bo <cite>DiegoSanchez206 posted [p:886891338] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Raikuro posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>holding a knife, yelling “shoot me”</quote> <cite>Squidkids posted...</cite> <quote>fair</quote> <cite>Fam_Fam posted...</cite> <quote>fair, next</quote> <cite>Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...</cite> <quote>This is the fairest of next.</quote> <cite>HypnoCoosh posted...</cite> <quote>Fair next.</quote> So if someone is standing on the ledge of a tall building, police would be obligated to go up there and push them off?</quote> Swing and a miss! Good try, slugger!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KrustyTheClown 09/19/17 12:58:51 PM #36:	DiegoSanchez206 posted... KrustyTheClown posted... Nomadic View posted... I haven't read the article, but from what I heard about it (1)he called the police, (2)gave the police a description of himself, (3)told the police that the offender had a knife and a gun, (3) when police arrived he was combative and uncooperative, (4) he held an unidentifiable object in his hand, and (5) he has a history of attempted suicide Kinda sad that mentally ill people are capable of exploiting our poorly trained police like that. Something has to change. So sad that liberals think the are super human and think they can live through a knife attack to the neck. They wouldn't need to be super human because it likely wouldn't get to that point if they adopted proper training methods like other police forces around the world instead of just rooty tooty point and shooty for every problem. --- 1, 2, 3, and to the 4. <cite>KrustyTheClown posted [p:886891359] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>DiegoSanchez206 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>KrustyTheClown posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Nomadic View posted...</cite> <quote>I haven't read the article, but from what I heard about it (1)he called the police, (2)gave the police a description of himself, (3)told the police that the offender had a knife and a gun, (3) when police arrived he was combative and uncooperative, (4) he held an unidentifiable object in his hand, and (5) he has a history of attempted suicide</quote> Kinda sad that mentally ill people are capable of exploiting our poorly trained police like that. Something has to change.</quote> So sad that liberals think the are super human and think they can live through a knife attack to the neck.</quote> They wouldn't need to be super human because it likely wouldn't get to that point if they adopted proper training methods like other police forces around the world instead of just rooty tooty point and shooty for every problem.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scorpion41 09/19/17 12:59:14 PM #37:	This is fair. If you approach police with a deadly weapon and refuse to comply, then you're going to get shot. People crying about tasers and whatnot, if that piece of equipment fails in this situation then someone else gets seriously injured or dies. Police officers have a life to live too. --- PSN: scorpion_4160 Currently Playing: NCAA 14, Darksiders series(PS3) <cite>scorpion41 posted [p:886891383] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>This is fair. If you approach police with a deadly weapon and refuse to comply, then you're going to get shot. People crying about tasers and whatnot, if that piece of equipment fails in this situation then someone else gets seriously injured or dies. Police officers have a life to live too.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DKFjalfe 09/19/17 12:59:43 PM #38:	scorpion41 posted... This is fair. If you approach police with a deadly weapon and refuse to comply, then you're going to get shot. People crying about tasers and whatnot, if that piece of equipment fails in this situation then someone else gets seriously injured or dies. Police officers have a life to live too. This <cite>DKFjalfe posted [p:886891412] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>scorpion41 posted...</cite> <quote>This is fair. If you approach police with a deadly weapon and refuse to comply, then you're going to get shot. People crying about tasers and whatnot, if that piece of equipment fails in this situation then someone else gets seriously injured or dies. Police officers have a life to live too.</quote> This</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HypnoCoosh 09/19/17 1:03:08 PM #39:	scorpion41 posted... This is fair. If you approach police with a deadly weapon and refuse to comply, then you're going to get shot. People crying about tasers and whatnot, if that piece of equipment fails in this situation then someone else gets seriously injured or dies. Police officers have a life to live too. It's like people have a hard time realizing officers put their lives at risk DAILY. They cherry pick instances as a platform to drive some wacked out narrative never taking into account how much shit these officers deal with daily. --- We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. - C.S. Lewis <cite>HypnoCoosh posted [p:886891558] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>scorpion41 posted...</cite> <quote>This is fair. If you approach police with a deadly weapon and refuse to comply, then you're going to get shot. People crying about tasers and whatnot, if that piece of equipment fails in this situation then someone else gets seriously injured or dies. Police officers have a life to live too.</quote> It's like people have a hard time realizing officers put their lives at risk DAILY. They cherry pick instances as a platform to drive some wacked out narrative never taking into account how much shit these officers deal with daily.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BuckVanHammer 09/19/17 1:10:23 PM #40:	tote_all posted... BuckVanHammer posted... Lack of training is to blame. Are you implying there's training to "make non-lethal gunshot wounds"? Nope. I'm implying that there is such a thing as suicide by cop training... --- I bet Ronald McDonald is real tired of kickin it with dying brats... <cite>BuckVanHammer posted [p:886891972] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>tote_all posted...</cite> <quote><cite>BuckVanHammer posted...</cite> <quote>Lack of training is to blame.</quote> Are you implying there's training to "make non-lethal gunshot wounds"?</quote> Nope. I'm implying that there is such a thing as suicide by cop training...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MangaFan462 09/19/17 1:12:57 PM #41:	Wow that they thought it was smart to protest the police after this. --- Posted using GameFlux https://i.imgur.com/Il34cSX.jpg / https://i.redd.it/zwfbqetu2b8y.jpg <cite>MangaFan462 posted [p:886892122] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>Wow that they thought it was smart to protest the police after this.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KrustyTheClown 09/19/17 1:14:59 PM #42:	scorpion41 posted... This is fair. If you approach police with a deadly weapon and refuse to comply, then you're going to get shot. People crying about tasers and whatnot, if that piece of equipment fails in this situation then someone else gets seriously injured or dies. Police officers have a life to live too. It's only fair if you accept that inadequate training is the only training and that shooting is the only option, which is to say it's not fair at all and fucking pathetic and infuriating that Americans love their wild west, shoot first, ask questions never bullshit police style so much they settle for mediocrity. --- 1, 2, 3, and to the 4. <cite>KrustyTheClown posted [p:886892243] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>scorpion41 posted...</cite> <quote>This is fair. If you approach police with a deadly weapon and refuse to comply, then you're going to get shot. People crying about tasers and whatnot, if that piece of equipment fails in this situation then someone else gets seriously injured or dies. Police officers have a life to live too.</quote> It's only fair if you accept that inadequate training is the only training and that shooting is the only option, which is to say it's not fair at all and fucking pathetic and infuriating that Americans love their wild west, shoot first, ask questions never bullshit police style so much they settle for mediocrity.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MangaFan462 09/19/17 1:17:50 PM #43:	tote_all posted... BuckVanHammer posted... Lack of training is to blame. Are you implying there's training to "make non-lethal gunshot wounds"? Yes, havent you ever played a game like RE4? Lol --- Posted using GameFlux https://i.imgur.com/Il34cSX.jpg / https://i.redd.it/zwfbqetu2b8y.jpg <cite>MangaFan462 posted [p:886892436] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>tote_all posted...</cite> <quote><cite>BuckVanHammer posted...</cite> <quote>Lack of training is to blame.</quote> Are you implying there's training to "make non-lethal gunshot wounds"?</quote> Yes, havent you ever played a game like RE4? Lol</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ThePrinceFish 09/19/17 1:22:13 PM #44:	One of the most justified police killings in recent memory. --- Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say, 'Golly gee, I can't do that." <cite>ThePrinceFish posted [p:886892710] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>One of the most justified police killings in recent memory.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HypnoCoosh 09/19/17 1:23:23 PM #45:	MangaFan462 posted... Wow that they thought it was smart to protest the police after this. They literally burned a cop car to the ground and stormed the police department injuring two officers over this shit. --- We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. - C.S. Lewis <cite>HypnoCoosh posted [p:886892784] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>MangaFan462 posted...</cite> <quote>Wow that they thought it was smart to protest the police after this.</quote> They literally burned a cop car to the ground and stormed the police department injuring two officers over this shit.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Chaosmaster00 09/19/17 1:27:29 PM #46:	I like how people think that police should have handled this differently, yet if they were in the same sort of life and death situation, where someone they don't know is coming at them with a knife or other such deadly weapon, repeatedly ignoring them telling them to stop and put the weapon down, they wouldn't try and stop them by the most effective means possible? Most forms of nonlethal force have a risk of failing, and if it does, and this guy is really trying to kill you, you're as good as dead. In the military, we were taught to only use deadly force if it meets the criteria of the "Deadly Force Triangle", in which deadly force is only authorized if the assailant has Capability, Opportunity, and Intent to cause life-threatening damage. In this scenario, they had all three: they had a a weapon (Capability), they were within charging distance to inflict bodily harm with the weapon (Opportunity), and they were not compliant with the officer's orders to halt and drop the weapon (Intent). The Deadly Force Triangle has been met, and deadly force was authorized and used appropriately. Sorry if you snowflakes hate to hear it, but this is the fairest of nexts. --- 3DS: 1590-4884-9269 \| Discord Chat for online gaming with Chaos! https://discord.gg/hDQ6rWb The more you learn, the less you know, maaan... <cite>Chaosmaster00 posted [p:886893042] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote>I like how people think that police should have handled this differently, yet if they were in the same sort of life and death situation, where someone they don't know is coming at them with a knife or other such deadly weapon, repeatedly ignoring them telling them to stop and put the weapon down, they wouldn't try and stop them by the most effective means possible? Most forms of nonlethal force have a risk of failing, and if it does, and this guy is really trying to kill you, you're as good as dead. In the military, we were taught to only use deadly force if it meets the criteria of the "Deadly Force Triangle", in which deadly force is only authorized if the assailant has Capability, Opportunity, and Intent to cause life-threatening damage. In this scenario, they had all three: they had a a weapon (Capability), they were within charging distance to inflict bodily harm with the weapon (Opportunity), and they were not compliant with the officer's orders to halt and drop the weapon (Intent). The Deadly Force Triangle has been met, and deadly force was authorized and used appropriately. Sorry if you snowflakes hate to hear it, but this is the fairest of nexts.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 09/19/17 1:28:17 PM #47:	CommonStar posted... If s/he was holding a knife or something resembling a knife and then approaching the officer taunting him to shoot, then she's a idiot. It doesn't matter if she's LGBT or not, that's just a dumbass move. The student chose the pronoun they. Didn't you read? --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:886893081] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>CommonStar posted...</cite> <quote>If s/he was holding a knife or something resembling a knife and then approaching the officer taunting him to shoot, then she's a idiot. It doesn't matter if she's LGBT or not, that's just a dumbass move.</quote> The student chose the pronoun they. Didn't you read?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkjedilink 09/19/17 1:30:38 PM #48:	Raikuro posted... Callixtus posted... holding a knife, yelling “shoot me” Squidkids posted... fair Fam_Fam posted... fair, next Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted... This is the fairest of next. HypnoCoosh posted... Fair next. So if someone is standing on the ledge of a tall building, police would be obligated to go up there and push them off? ITP - threatening a cop with a deadly weapon should be talked down. --- 'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen <cite>darkjedilink posted [p:886893226] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Raikuro posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>holding a knife, yelling “shoot me”</quote> <cite>Squidkids posted...</cite> <quote>fair</quote> <cite>Fam_Fam posted...</cite> <quote>fair, next</quote> <cite>Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...</cite> <quote>This is the fairest of next.</quote> <cite>HypnoCoosh posted...</cite> <quote>Fair next.</quote> So if someone is standing on the ledge of a tall building, police would be obligated to go up there and push them off?</quote> ITP - threatening a cop with a deadly weapon should be talked down.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KrustyTheClown 09/19/17 1:46:10 PM #49:	Chaosmaster00 posted... I like how people think that police should have handled this differently, yet if they were in the same sort of life and death situation, where someone they don't know is coming at them with a knife or other such deadly weapon, repeatedly ignoring them telling them to stop and put the weapon down, they wouldn't try and stop them by the most effective means possible? Most forms of nonlethal force have a risk of failing, and if it does, and this guy is really trying to kill you, you're as good as dead. If this dumb shit is true, explain the police officers around the world who deal with life threatening BS who decry US police methods and successfully employ better alternatives. Chaosmaster00 posted... In the military Police aren't military and the people they deal with aren't enemy combatants. Thanks for playing. --- 1, 2, 3, and to the 4. <cite>KrustyTheClown posted [p:886894093] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>Chaosmaster00 posted...</cite> <quote>I like how people think that police should have handled this differently, yet if they were in the same sort of life and death situation, where someone they don't know is coming at them with a knife or other such deadly weapon, repeatedly ignoring them telling them to stop and put the weapon down, they wouldn't try and stop them by the most effective means possible? Most forms of nonlethal force have a risk of failing, and if it does, and this guy is really trying to kill you, you're as good as dead. </quote> If this dumb shit is true, explain the police officers around the world who deal with life threatening BS who decry US police methods and successfully employ better alternatives. <cite>Chaosmaster00 posted...</cite> <quote>In the military</quote> Police aren't military and the people they deal with aren't enemy combatants. Thanks for playing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 09/19/17 1:48:16 PM #50:	KrustyTheClown posted... If this dumb shit is true, explain the police officers around the world who deal with life threatening BS who decry US police methods and successfully employ better alternatives. What do other police do when people rush them with knives Give them a spanking? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:886894217] in Georgia Te... [t:75791606]...</cite> <quote><cite>KrustyTheClown posted...</cite> <quote> If this dumb shit is true, explain the police officers around the world who deal with life threatening BS who decry US police methods and successfully employ better alternatives. </quote> What do other police do when people rush them with knives Give them a spanking?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Georgia Tech LGBT student leader KILLED; approached COP with KNIFE DRAWN (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Georgia Tech LGBT student leader KILLED; approached COP with KNIFE DRAWN