Current Events > Incredibly ignorant FB post triggered the fuck out of me. *pic*

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://imgur.com/a/boagO

Showed it to my gf, and she replies with "I get the point. I don't agree with the message, but I get the point."

I explain to her that broad sweeping statements against any group of people, can be toxic and divisive.

She says "Like for example if someone said "Women are over dramatic" (I know that's not as severe of a phrase but that's all I could think of so bear with me) yes it's a common trait associated with women, but if you know you're not like that then you don't need to take it personally"

This is no different than saying(these are not my views, just examples of similar statements.):
Blacks are thieves.
Mexicans are lazy.
Women are whores.
Muslims are terrorists.
Men are trash.

So if a black person has never stolen anything, they shouldn't take offense to that statement? That's the logic that's being used, and that's just fucked.

I'm sick of being "guilty" of something, just for being male.
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Difference is these

Blacks are thieves.
Mexicans are lazy.
Women are whores.
Muslims are terrorists.

Are actual stereotypes that those groups of people have had to deal with for decades if not centuries. Whereas this

Men are trash.

Doesn't really affect the way men are perceived in the real world.

ThanksUglyGod posted...

Difference is these

Blacks are thieves.
Mexicans are lazy.
Women are whores.
Muslims are terrorists.

Are actual stereotypes that those groups of people have had to deal with for decades if not centuries. Whereas this

Men are trash.

Doesn't really affect the way men are perceived in the real world.

what you mean? they'd be perceived like trash, no?

Its only ok to make broad generalizations if its against white people or men, get with the times TC
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Sick of it
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Have you ever said "women are crazy" before, TC?
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Fam_Fam posted...

ThanksUglyGod posted...

Difference is these

Blacks are thieves.
Mexicans are lazy.
Women are whores.
Muslims are terrorists.

Are actual stereotypes that those groups of people have had to deal with for decades if not centuries. Whereas this

Men are trash.

Doesn't really affect the way men are perceived in the real world.

what you mean? they'd be perceived like trash, no?

I mean not really. What does that really mean? It's not like the majority of people who say this are actually going to treat men like trash. It's just them venting about the stupid stuff men do.

Boohoo
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Schwarber posted...

Boohoo

So you're okay with the other examples too?
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Why would this trigger you? You're gf is right.
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lww99 posted...

Schwarber posted...

Boohoo

So you're okay with the other examples too?

Nobody's saying this dude. It's just that women aren't making a generalisation about men when they say "men are trash", because there's a well understood implication in that statement that what they're talking about is "the apparently normal behaviour I have to deal with from men constantly is trash".

That implication is not there when you say "mexicans are lazy", because people really do feel that way when they say that.

I'd say I'd feel bad about being generalised if I thought I was being generalised, but I know I'm not, so I don't.
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pinky0926 posted...

I'd say I'd feel bad about being generalised if I thought I was being generalised, but I know I'm not, so I don't.

This. I look at the way guys often act (especially here) and think "this is what women are talking about when they say men are trash. I'm glad I'm not like them most of the time."
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men are fucking trash. can't commit nearly 100% of violent crime in the world and expect women to just accept the gender

if you're offended, its probably because you're trash. work on not being trash then it won't be targeted at you
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I don't follow.
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I mean, if you're a guy and you're genuinely confident that you aren't trash, then you don't need to tell the world you aren't trash by tipping your fedora and writing #NotAllMen whenever any anti-man movement arises.

Her point is, a guy is probably trash if he has to try and convince the world he isn't trash.
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lol really TC?
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Whenever I see stuff like this I feel like it's in part retaliation against all of the sweeping generalizations made against women that are so embedded in society that people often take it as a fact like
pinky0926 posted...

Have you ever said "women are crazy" before, TC?

So I get it but it doesn't really do anything but make it harder for each side to empathize with the other.
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lww99 posted...

I don't follow.

When people say "mexicans are lazy" they're just voicing their racist views about how they feel about mexicans as a whole. The same can be said for the other counter examples you used.

When women are saying "men are trash" they're just tagging onto a meme that actually means "I have to deal with this problem all the time because of things some men do constantly, but yes not all men are like this".

I actually agree it's a misleading thing to say and I'm not surprised that people take offense to it, but it's also good to know that women aren't making a statement about all or most men. They're making a statement about sexism in general and how they live in a world where they have to deal with the problem men more than they find acceptable.
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Schwarber posted...

Boohoo

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You guys need to STOP technically taking everything face value.
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pinky0926 posted...

lww99 posted...

Schwarber posted...

Boohoo

So you're okay with the other examples too?

Nobody's saying this dude. It's just that women aren't making a generalisation about men when they say "men are trash", because there's a well understood implication in that statement that what they're talking about is "the apparently normal behaviour I have to deal with from men constantly is trash".

That implication is not there when you say "mexicans are lazy", because people really do feel that way when they say that.

I'd say I'd feel bad about being generalised if I thought I was being generalised, but I know I'm not, so I don't.

So going by your logic, its ok to say all women are crazy because its well understood the apparent normal behavior I have to deal with from women constantly is crazy?
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That's twitter not facebook.
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Kazi1212 posted...

So going by your logic, its ok to say all women are crazy because its well understood the apparent normal behavior I have to deal with from women constantly is crazy?

If you said "women are crazy" in reference to how you have to deal with a few women in your life who go crazy on you and it's a constant problem you can't escape then yeah, I could see that not really being much of an issue.

If you said "all women are crazy" obviously the nature of that statement is different.

Again I'll say it's a just a meme and probably unfairly misleading to say. But I also think that guys are getting outraged more at the perceived unfairness of women being "allowed" to say this rather than any actual offense felt.
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if that triggers you then frankly you're a cuck
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The tweet was shared via Facebook post, by someone on my friends list.
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But that's twitter.
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It's like saying all lives matter to BLM people, they like the comeback with "that's not the point!" Oh well, ain't no use arguing with stupidity. The internet has bred some real morons.
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KillerKhan420 posted...

It's like saying all lives matter to BLM people, they like the comeback with "that's not the point!" Oh well, ain't no use arguing with stupidity. The internet has bred some real morons.

Because when you say "all lives matter" you're dismissing their movement completely in the most lazy way.

For example, if a woman said

"I have been sexually harrassed many times throughout my life" and your response to that was "yeah I had it happen to me too so what", it's not helpful at all to her situation. She came forward to you as a victim and you shot it down without even trying to take her seriously.

I don't even agree with half the shit BLM does but "all lives matter" is a dumb comeback that's a cheap attempt to trivialise the problem.
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"Reginald Fleming 'R.J.' Johnston: Words are important.

Pu Yi, at 15: Why are words important?

Reginald Fleming 'R.J.' Johnston: If you cannot say what you mean, your majesty, you will never mean what you say and a gentleman should always mean what he says."

Relevant.
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pinky0926 posted...

When people say "mexicans are lazy" they're just voicing their racist views about how they feel about mexicans as a whole. The same can be said for the other counter examples you used.

When women are saying "men are trash" they're just tagging onto a meme that actually means "I have to deal with this problem all the time because of things some men do constantly, but yes not all men are like this".

This logic doesn't make any sense. People could very well be saying "Mexicans are lazy" from experience where they observe this behavior all the time the same way in how you deem it acceptable for women to say "all men are trash".

hortanz posted...

So I get it but it doesn't really do anything but make it harder for each side to empathize with the other.

And this is the biggest issue I have with making that statement. I should be okay with people saying these things about whatever I identify with because I'm "different" from the rest? I don't understand why it's acceptable to make these statements.
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pinky0926 posted...

But I also think that guys are getting outraged more at the perceived unfairness of women being "allowed" to say this rather than any actual offense felt.

You see a similar thing about BET. "Why do they get to have a BET? If there was a WET there, would be outrage!"
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This kind of behavior is annoying to me. Because the person saying the statement is pretty much wasting their time making the rest of their point, because of divisive rhetoric.

I was at an LGBTQ meeting in college for example (I'm gay btw), and a women made a point by saying, "We all know that straight people f*****g suck, right?..." and then proceeded to make some point about wanting to be an ally ( the woman saying this was straight).

Like I tried to see her point, that maybe the straight people who are anti-LGBT suck, but I felt that phrasing it in a manner like that alienates your allies. And why bother speaking divisive if your goal is to build bridges and understanding.

And they're voiding any responsibility to the power of their words, and placing the burden of understanding on the listener, like it's their problem if they are misinterpreting broad generalizing statements.

Sad_Face posted...

This logic doesn't make any sense. People could very well be saying "Mexicans are lazy" from experience where they observe this behavior all the time the same way in how you deem it acceptable for women to say "all men are trash".

I'm not actually saying it's acceptable for women to say "men are trash". (and stop adding in "all", that's not part of the phrase). I'm saying the intent of the phrase has a contextual significance that's fundamentally different from "mexicans are lazy". Women aren't saying you're trash because you're men. They're calling out trash men. That's the point of the meme. This discussion is about that meme which is currently trending, not any time a woman in history has said the words.

Basically, I'm not personally offended by "men are trash" because I know what women mean when they say it. It might however still be a stupid thing to say.
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BigSLM1993 posted...

This kind of behavior is annoying to me. Because the person saying the statement is pretty much wasting their time making the rest of their point, because of divisive rhetoric.

I was at an LGBTQ meeting in college for example (I'm gay btw), and a women made a point by saying, "We all know that straight people f*****g suck, right?..." and then proceeded to make some point about wanting to be an ally ( the woman saying this was straight).

Like I tried to see her point, that maybe the straight people who are anti-LGBT suck, but I felt that phrasing it in a manner like that alienates your allies. And why bother speaking divisive if your goal is to build bridges and understanding.

And they're voiding any responsibility to the power of their words, and placing the burden of understanding on the listener, like it's their problem if they are misinterpreting broad generalizing statements.

I'll agree with this. It's incredibly smug and assumes the would-be ally already should understand their position rather than actually attempt to bridge the gap in viewpoints.
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pinky0926 posted...

Sad_Face posted...

This logic doesn't make any sense. People could very well be saying "Mexicans are lazy" from experience where they observe this behavior all the time the same way in how you deem it acceptable for women to say "all men are trash".

I'm not actually saying it's acceptable for women to say "men are trash". (and stop adding in "all", that's not part of the phrase). I'm saying the intent of the phrase has a contextual significance that's fundamentally different from "mexicans are lazy". Women aren't saying you're trash because you're men. They're calling out trash men. That's the point of the meme. This discussion is about that meme which is currently trending, not any time a woman in history has said the words.

Basically, I'm not personally offended by "men are trash" because I know what women mean when they say it. It might however still be a stupid thing to say.

Why are you making it so hard for these nerds to understand? I already told yall they don't technically mean all men when they use it in a general since. This is not hard, people. GOd damn I hate you nerds.
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Anyway I think this comic sums up where I'm coming from:

http://d1o2xrel38nv1n.cloudfront.net/files/2014/05/2014-04-10-pltm196-1.jpg
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For example, when I say "I hate you nerds" I don't mean ALL the nerds in the world. Just the nerds who don't understand these basic social skills.

@lww99
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Veggeta X posted...

Why are you making it so hard for these nerds to understand? I already told yall they don't technically mean all men when they use it in a general since. This is not hard, people. GOd damn I hate you nerds.

Wait, what are you mad about, that they don't get it or that I'm not doing a good job explaining it
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pinky0926 posted...

Sad_Face posted...

This logic doesn't make any sense. People could very well be saying "Mexicans are lazy" from experience where they observe this behavior all the time the same way in how you deem it acceptable for women to say "all men are trash".

I'm not actually saying it's acceptable for women to say "men are trash". (and stop adding in "all", that's not part of the phrase). I'm saying the intent of the phrase has a contextual significance that's fundamentally different from "mexicans are lazy". Women aren't saying you're trash because you're men. They're calling out trash men. That's the point of the meme. This discussion is about that meme which is currently trending, not any time a woman in history has said the words.

Basically, I'm not personally offended by "men are trash" because I know what women mean when they say it. It might however still be a stupid thing to say.

Sounds like someone can have the same intention when calling Mexicans lazy. They're not saying Mexicans are lazy, they're calling out lazy Mexicans. You can use that logic for all the stereotypes mentioned in the topic.
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pinky0926 posted...

Veggeta X posted...

Why are you making it so hard for these nerds to understand? I already told yall they don't technically mean all men when they use it in a general since. This is not hard, people. GOd damn I hate you nerds.

Wait, what are you mad about, that they don't get it or that I'm not doing a good job explaining it

More them than you.
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BigSLM1993 posted...

This kind of behavior is annoying to me. Because the person saying the statement is pretty much wasting their time making the rest of their point, because of divisive rhetoric.

I was at an LGBTQ meeting in college for example (I'm gay btw), and a women made a point by saying, "We all know that straight people f*****g suck, right?..." and then proceeded to make some point about wanting to be an ally ( the woman saying this was straight).

Like I tried to see her point, that maybe the straight people who are anti-LGBT suck, but I felt that phrasing it in a manner like that alienates your allies. And why bother speaking divisive if your goal is to build bridges and understanding.

And they're voiding any responsibility to the power of their words, and placing the burden of understanding on the listener, like it's their problem if they are misinterpreting broad generalizing statements.

Very well said.
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The phrase usually means struggle with the opposite sex. Not an absolute statement.
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Squall28 posted...

The phrase usually means struggle with the opposite sex. Not an absolute statement.

Say what you mean. Mean what you say.
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Sad_Face posted...

Sounds like someone can have the same intention when calling Mexicans lazy. They're not saying Mexicans are lazy, they're calling out lazy Mexicans. You can use that logic for all the stereotypes mentioned in the topic.

If there was a problem of women actively treating men poorly in society and justifying it with the "men are trash" phrase then I think we could equate them on that basis. The thing is that when women say this they're exclusively talking about something unpleasant that has happened to them.

I'm not saying the phrase is good, just pointing out the intent of it is fundamentally different than what TC implied in the original post. Women aren't calling all men trash. They're just having a good whine about something men do to them a lot.
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Is TC ignoring me or what?
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pinky0926 posted...

I'm not saying the phrase is good

you sure seem to be trying hard to justify it

Sorry I'm at work currently. I'll try to go back and respond to anything I may have missed.
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pls posted...

pinky0926 posted...

I'm not saying the phrase is good

you sure seem to be trying hard to justify it

Just because you understand something wrong doesn't mean they're wrong. You entitled nerds OMG.
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pls posted...

pinky0926 posted...

I'm not saying the phrase is good

you sure seem to be trying hard to justify it

Only to clarify the intent of it, not the phrase itself.
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Accurate speech is important, identical generalizing statements with the subject of generalization changed shouldn't have different, hidden rules of how it is to be understood based on the subject.
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