Current Events > I thought mass shootings were impossible in a state like Texas

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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:20:26 PM
#52:


Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
A_Good_Boy posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
BLAKUboy posted...
B0bSaget posted...
More stringent gun control certainly wouldnt be a bad thing, but does anyone really think that would stop shootings?

Are you okay with at least one mass shooting a month? Because that is the country we live in right now, and that is unacceptable. A solution doesn't have to stop something entirely to be considered effective.

More people died of the flu during the Vegas shooting, than died in the Vegas shooting. More people died in car accidents in the state of Nevada, in the same time period, than did in the shooting. You are worried about such a small aspect of the world you cant see the bigger picture

You have the numbers for that, cause that's just crazy.


It's just a deflection away from the issue of guns and shootings. And car accident deaths being higher than shootings really shouldn't be surprising due to sheer volume of cars on the road vs the number of shootings.

There are FAR more guns, bullets, and gun owners in the US than cars. Try again


Guns can't kill people unless they are being used. It doesn't matter if there are more guns than cars, because there will always be more cars being driven than guns being fired. Which is why statistically it's not surprising there are more car accidents, because there are more times a car is being used to cause one than guns.

You just want to deflect away from the issue of gun shootings.

And there are more people with the flu at any given time than own firearms. You post not only offers nothing, but is dumb **the censored version of what I was going to say**

The fact of the matter is you dont have a leg to stand on and the majority of America agrees with that statement. Stop listening to the Brady Campaign
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:21:30 PM
#53:


DirkDiggles posted...
I said this every time a mass shooting occurs. We don't have a gun control problem. We have a people control problem, but I get shit on when I suggest a mandatory psych evaluation and gun licensing in order to get a gun.

Im 100% on board. Is the ATF going to pay for that? Because if the answer is no, you just denied the poor and indigent a Constitutional right
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Funbazooka
11/05/17 6:21:36 PM
#54:


Turtlemayor333 posted...
"Good guys with guns" needs to stop being a thing that gets said like we live in a comic book world.

Are you suggesting that everyone who legally owns a gun is bad?
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Axiom
11/05/17 6:23:45 PM
#55:


BuzzyTheCat posted...
And there are more people with the flu at any given time than own firearms. You post not only offers nothing, but is dumb **the censored version of what I was going to say**

And again that's a non sequitur. Gun deaths aren't any less relevant because more people die from the flu

The only one whose post is offering nothing is you. You think that for some reason because there are already laws and regulations that they shouldn't be revised which is honestly some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen on here
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Tmaster148
11/05/17 6:24:04 PM
#56:


BuzzyTheCat posted...
And there are more people with the flu at any given time than own firearms. You post not only offers nothing, but is dumb **the censored version of what I was going to say**

The fact of the matter is you dont have a leg to stand on and the majority of America agrees with that statement. Stop listening to the Brady Campaign


Because a cold is on the same level as people owning firearms. You are just bring up irrelevant shit thinking you have a good point when you have nothing but deflections.

Besides I have no clue what this Brady Campaign is, but I do know I would like to live in an America where gun shootings aren't expected to happen once a month.
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Turtlemayor333
11/05/17 6:24:17 PM
#57:


Funbazooka posted...
Turtlemayor333 posted...
"Good guys with guns" needs to stop being a thing that gets said like we live in a comic book world.

Are you suggesting that everyone who legally owns a gun is bad?

No, and you would know that if you read my entire post which was not very long to begin with.

I'm saying that almost no legal gun owners have training for reacting in mass shooting scenarios. It must be less than 1 percent.
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DirkDiggles
11/05/17 6:24:45 PM
#58:


BuzzyTheCat posted...
Because if the answer is no, you just denied the poor and indigent a Constitutional right


If you are poor and struggling financially, buying a gun should be pretty low on your priority list.
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Drasilor
11/05/17 6:26:21 PM
#59:


FLUFFYGERM posted...
Imagine being despicable enough to make this topic btw

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#60
Post #60 was unavailable or deleted.
BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:27:51 PM
#61:


Axiom posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
And there are more people with the flu at any given time than own firearms. You post not only offers nothing, but is dumb **the censored version of what I was going to say**

And again that's a non sequitur. Gun deaths aren't any less irrelevant because more people die from the flu

The only one whose post is offering nothing is you. You think that for some reason because there are already laws and regulations that they shouldn't be revised which is honestly some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen on here

Its a point to the fact you are arguing against peoples Constitutional rights because of a statistically infinitesimally small problem. Your post belongs on 3am TV between the St Judes broadcast and the "send a dollar to children in Africa" infomercial. SCOTUS has ruled, and already side to stop your crap. Do you really want to push it further and be ruled against AGAIN? I dont think you do
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:29:51 PM
#62:


DirkDiggles posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Because if the answer is no, you just denied the poor and indigent a Constitutional right


If you are poor and struggling financially, buying a gun should be pretty low on your priority list.

That proves you dont live in the real world. The poor are far more likely to be victims of crime than any other class in America.
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A_Good_Boy
11/05/17 6:30:26 PM
#63:


GregShmedley posted...
DirkDiggles posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Because if the answer is no, you just denied the poor and indigent a Constitutional right


If you are poor and struggling financially, buying a gun should be pretty low on your priority list.


Why should owning some sort of protection be low on their priority list? If they are poor and struggling, they likely live in a poor area where crime is more likely to negatively affect them. A gun would be cheaper than say an alarm system or a dog.

Remember, owning a firearm is a right.

I'd love to see an America that scrapped public assistance but decided to just give the poor and needy guns instead.
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:32:03 PM
#64:


Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
And there are more people with the flu at any given time than own firearms. You post not only offers nothing, but is dumb **the censored version of what I was going to say**

The fact of the matter is you dont have a leg to stand on and the majority of America agrees with that statement. Stop listening to the Brady Campaign


Because a cold is on the same level as people owning firearms. You are just bring up irrelevant shit thinking you have a good point when you have nothing but deflections.

Besides I have no clue what this Brady Campaign is, but I do know I would like to live in an America where gun shootings aren't expected to happen once a month.

Considering the population of the US, mass shootings arent all that common. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a place like Belgium where they are rare, because the entire country has a population the size of a single US city?
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Prestoff
11/05/17 6:32:43 PM
#65:


Yes, I used to live in the South myself and people do in fact bring guns to churches (it was a Southern Baptist church though, don't know about other denominations). But a topic like this is pretty damn despicable.
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Funbazooka
11/05/17 6:32:58 PM
#66:


Turtlemayor333 posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Turtlemayor333 posted...
"Good guys with guns" needs to stop being a thing that gets said like we live in a comic book world.

Are you suggesting that everyone who legally owns a gun is bad?

No, and you would know that if you read my entire post which was not very long to begin with.

I'm saying that almost no legal gun owners have training for reacting in mass shooting scenarios. It must be less than 1 percent.

Oh ok. Sounds like an argument to encourage people to sign up for self-defense classes concerning mass shootings, not an argument for more gun control. People can and do use firearms successfully in self-defense situations.
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Axiom
11/05/17 6:33:04 PM
#67:


BuzzyTheCat posted...
Its a point to the fact you are arguing against peoples Constitutional rights

Arguing for stricter gun laws isn't arguing against the constitution. The only thing in the constitution is the right to bear arms which means no outright banning

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about like all your previous posts have already shown
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#68
Post #68 was unavailable or deleted.
A_Good_Boy
11/05/17 6:34:22 PM
#69:


Funbazooka posted...
Turtlemayor333 posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Turtlemayor333 posted...
"Good guys with guns" needs to stop being a thing that gets said like we live in a comic book world.

Are you suggesting that everyone who legally owns a gun is bad?

No, and you would know that if you read my entire post which was not very long to begin with.

I'm saying that almost no legal gun owners have training for reacting in mass shooting scenarios. It must be less than 1 percent.

Oh ok. Sounds like an argument to encourage people to sign up for self-defense classes concerning mass shootings, not an argument for more gun control. People can and do use firearms successfully in self-defense situations.

What are the stats on that? We have plenty of stats detailing all sorts of gun usage, but what out there shows they're being used in self defense nearly as much as they aren't?
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Tropicalwood
11/05/17 6:34:32 PM
#70:


Axiom posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Its a point to the fact you are arguing against peoples Constitutional rights

Arguing for stricter gun laws isn't arguing against the constitution. The only thing in the constitution is the right to bear arms which means no outright banning

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about like all your previous posts have already shown

Shall not infringe, imagine if the government banned all nouns.
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Tmaster148
11/05/17 6:34:40 PM
#71:


BuzzyTheCat posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
And there are more people with the flu at any given time than own firearms. You post not only offers nothing, but is dumb **the censored version of what I was going to say**

The fact of the matter is you dont have a leg to stand on and the majority of America agrees with that statement. Stop listening to the Brady Campaign


Because a cold is on the same level as people owning firearms. You are just bring up irrelevant shit thinking you have a good point when you have nothing but deflections.

Besides I have no clue what this Brady Campaign is, but I do know I would like to live in an America where gun shootings aren't expected to happen once a month.

Considering the population of the US, mass shootings arent all that uncommon. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a place like Belgium where they are rare, because the entire country has a population the size of a single US city?


Which is irrelevant. I don't care if Belgium has low gun shootings, I care about the country I currently live in having too many and doing nothing about it.
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DirkDiggles
11/05/17 6:35:33 PM
#72:


GregShmedley posted...
Why should owning some sort of protection be low on their priority list? If they are poor and struggling, they likely live in a poor area where crime is more likely to negatively affect them. A gun would be cheaper than say an alarm system or a dog.

Remember, owning a firearm is a right.


"Should I pay rent, pay my utilities, and get food for my kids, or should I get this expensive gun?"
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:35:45 PM
#73:


Axiom posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Its a point to the fact you are arguing against peoples Constitutional rights

Arguing for stricter gun laws isn't arguing against the constitution. The only thing in the constitution is the right to bear arms which means no outright banning

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about like all your previous posts have already shown

1. The right to bare arms has been linked to the individual (dont try to bring your Militia argument into it)
2. You can not restrict access to firearms (as in safe laws or trigger locks)
3. The Constitution has volumes of material associated with it and show the clear intention of the Founders.
4. All of those things are taken into account in any court ruling. Society doesnt exist in a vacuum
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Prestoff
11/05/17 6:36:16 PM
#74:


I mean yes I do think we have to do something about this gun culture that we have in the states, but gun control isn't this magic thing that is going to stop mass shootings from happening anytime soon.
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Axiom
11/05/17 6:36:57 PM
#75:


Tropicalwood posted...
Axiom posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Its a point to the fact you are arguing against peoples Constitutional rights

Arguing for stricter gun laws isn't arguing against the constitution. The only thing in the constitution is the right to bear arms which means no outright banning

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about like all your previous posts have already shown

Shall not infringe, imagine if the government banned all nouns.

Oh please if that's the way it were interpreted then there wouldn't be any gun laws in the first place but then you're a dyed in the wool gun nut so I'm not surprised that's the way you would take that
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josifrees
11/05/17 6:37:08 PM
#76:


Guns and Christianity are completely and unambiguously mutually exclusive
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A_Good_Boy
11/05/17 6:37:12 PM
#77:


BuzzyTheCat posted...
2. You can not restrict access to firearms (as in safe laws or trigger locks)

Huh?
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:37:30 PM
#78:


Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
And there are more people with the flu at any given time than own firearms. You post not only offers nothing, but is dumb **the censored version of what I was going to say**

The fact of the matter is you dont have a leg to stand on and the majority of America agrees with that statement. Stop listening to the Brady Campaign


Because a cold is on the same level as people owning firearms. You are just bring up irrelevant shit thinking you have a good point when you have nothing but deflections.

Besides I have no clue what this Brady Campaign is, but I do know I would like to live in an America where gun shootings aren't expected to happen once a month.

Considering the population of the US, mass shootings arent all that uncommon. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a place like Belgium where they are rare, because the entire country has a population the size of a single US city?


Which is irrelevant. I don't care if Belgium has low gun shootings, I care about the country I currently live in having too many and doing nothing about it.

Its not irrelevant, and if you cant see the population comparison you are too brain dead to continue responding to.
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DirkDiggles
11/05/17 6:37:44 PM
#79:


BuzzyTheCat posted...
That proves you dont live in the real world. The poor are far more likely to be victims of crime than any other class in America.


You are right. Fuck feeding my family. Fuck the lights. Fuck the water. I want my gun.
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:39:10 PM
#80:


Axiom posted...
Tropicalwood posted...
Axiom posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Its a point to the fact you are arguing against peoples Constitutional rights

Arguing for stricter gun laws isn't arguing against the constitution. The only thing in the constitution is the right to bear arms which means no outright banning

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about like all your previous posts have already shown

Shall not infringe, imagine if the government banned all nouns.

Oh please if that's the way it were interpreted then there wouldn't be any gun laws in the first place but then you're a dyed in the wool gun nut so I'm not surprised that's the way you would take that

Nearly every gun law brought before SCOTUS in the last 2 decades has been struck down as unconstitutional.
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#81
Post #81 was unavailable or deleted.
hockeybub89
11/05/17 6:39:50 PM
#82:


But it was a gun free zone, so how could there be guns?

Or is that suddenly insensitive?
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:40:04 PM
#83:


A_Good_Boy posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
2. You can not restrict access to firearms (as in safe laws or trigger locks)

Huh?

District of Columbia VS Heller
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#84
Post #84 was unavailable or deleted.
LinkAndEpona
11/05/17 6:40:55 PM
#85:


FLUFFYGERM posted...
BLAKUboy posted...
Conservatives: "Let's not politicize this! This isn't the time to talk about gun control!"

But if the shooter is any shade of brown you know they're immediately going to talk about immigration.


Liberals do the same thing when there's an Islamic terror attack.
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:41:02 PM
#86:


DirkDiggles posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
That proves you dont live in the real world. The poor are far more likely to be victims of crime than any other class in America.


You are right. Fuck feeding my family. Fuck the lights. Fuck the water. I want my gun.

Not much maters if your family is already dead. Your food means nothing if someone stole it already.
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Life Sympathy
11/05/17 6:41:06 PM
#87:


El Mexicano Texano posted...
Do you think people take guns to church?

Never been to Texas have you?
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Funbazooka
11/05/17 6:41:51 PM
#88:


A_Good_Boy posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Turtlemayor333 posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Turtlemayor333 posted...
"Good guys with guns" needs to stop being a thing that gets said like we live in a comic book world.

Are you suggesting that everyone who legally owns a gun is bad?

No, and you would know that if you read my entire post which was not very long to begin with.

I'm saying that almost no legal gun owners have training for reacting in mass shooting scenarios. It must be less than 1 percent.

Oh ok. Sounds like an argument to encourage people to sign up for self-defense classes concerning mass shootings, not an argument for more gun control. People can and do use firearms successfully in self-defense situations.

What are the stats on that? We have plenty of stats detailing all sorts of gun usage, but what out there shows they're being used in self defense nearly as much as they aren't?

I have no idea what the stats are. I don't think stats matter since people have a right to them in the first place. And they can either choose to practice their marksmanship and familiarity with the handling or simply hide it away for safekeeping. Or become a gun collector even. It's up them. Their money, their property.
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:42:08 PM
#89:


GregShmedley posted...
DirkDiggles posted...
GregShmedley posted...
Why should owning some sort of protection be low on their priority list? If they are poor and struggling, they likely live in a poor area where crime is more likely to negatively affect them. A gun would be cheaper than say an alarm system or a dog.

Remember, owning a firearm is a right.


"Should I pay rent, pay my utilities, and get food for my kids, or should I get this expensive gun?"


That isn't an acceptable response. In fact, it's nonsensical to suggest that one, all firearms are just crazy expensive and two, being poor automatically means purchasing a firearm will mean giving up a month's worth of food.

Maybe regroup and come back with a better retort instead of snide hyperbolic bullshit?

you can buy a firearm for less than $100 dollars brand new, and in some cases can buy one for less than $50 used
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Tmaster148
11/05/17 6:43:16 PM
#90:


BuzzyTheCat posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
And there are more people with the flu at any given time than own firearms. You post not only offers nothing, but is dumb **the censored version of what I was going to say**

The fact of the matter is you dont have a leg to stand on and the majority of America agrees with that statement. Stop listening to the Brady Campaign


Because a cold is on the same level as people owning firearms. You are just bring up irrelevant shit thinking you have a good point when you have nothing but deflections.

Besides I have no clue what this Brady Campaign is, but I do know I would like to live in an America where gun shootings aren't expected to happen once a month.

Considering the population of the US, mass shootings arent all that uncommon. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a place like Belgium where they are rare, because the entire country has a population the size of a single US city?


Which is irrelevant. I don't care if Belgium has low gun shootings, I care about the country I currently live in having too many and doing nothing about it.

Its not irrelevant, and if you cant see the population comparison you are too brain dead to continue responding to.


Because the issue isn't a population issue. Solving mass shootings does not suddenly mean gun violence and deaths will stop occuring which will still occur at a higher rate than countries with lower population.

There's no reason for the US to have such a high rate of planned mass killings. Whether the issue comes from inadequate gun regulations or poor mental healthcare.
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hockeybub89
11/05/17 6:43:39 PM
#91:


I'll be honest. I don't think access to guns should be an inalienable right. I don't want them banned, but owning one should be a privilege like driving a car. Hell, the latter is far more necessary in everyday life and people still need to earn it.
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divot1338
11/05/17 6:45:11 PM
#92:


One of the parishioners they interviewed right afterwards referred to the gun as a semiautomatic.

The news anchor and guests immediately started saying that the police havent released any details on the weapon. And that without seeing it that she couldnt know if it was semiautomatic.

The lady explained how everyone knew what a semiautomatic sounds like and proceeded to mimic exactly what the gunfire sounded like.

People here in Texas really like their guns.
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:45:13 PM
#93:


hockeybub89 posted...
I'll be honest. I don't think access to guns should be an inalienable right. I don't want them banned, but owning one should be a privilege like driving a car. Hell, the latter is far more necessary in everyday life and people still need to earn it.

Then you simply live in the wrong country
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GATTJT
11/05/17 6:46:29 PM
#94:


hockeybub89 posted...
I'll be honest. I don't think access to guns should be an inalienable right. I don't want them banned, but owning one should be a privilege like driving a car. Hell, the latter is far more necessary in everyday life and people still need to earn it.

Agreed, the 2nd amendment is outdated and needs to be amended or removed altogether.
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:46:47 PM
#95:


Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
And there are more people with the flu at any given time than own firearms. You post not only offers nothing, but is dumb **the censored version of what I was going to say**

The fact of the matter is you dont have a leg to stand on and the majority of America agrees with that statement. Stop listening to the Brady Campaign


Because a cold is on the same level as people owning firearms. You are just bring up irrelevant shit thinking you have a good point when you have nothing but deflections.

Besides I have no clue what this Brady Campaign is, but I do know I would like to live in an America where gun shootings aren't expected to happen once a month.

Considering the population of the US, mass shootings arent all that uncommon. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a place like Belgium where they are rare, because the entire country has a population the size of a single US city?


Which is irrelevant. I don't care if Belgium has low gun shootings, I care about the country I currently live in having too many and doing nothing about it.

Its not irrelevant, and if you cant see the population comparison you are too brain dead to continue responding to.


Because the issue isn't a population issue. Solving mass shootings does not suddenly mean gun violence and deaths will stop occuring which will still occur at a higher rate than countries with lower population.

There's no reason for the US to have such a high rate of planned mass killings. Whether the issue comes from inadequate gun regulations or poor mental healthcare.

Except gun violence doesnt occur in the US at a higher rate than other countries without cherry picking the data.
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nesplayer
11/05/17 6:47:00 PM
#96:


What we have is a media problem. The media glorifies said sickos in the world and just give them incentive to go out and do these acts.
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Tmaster148
11/05/17 6:47:56 PM
#97:


BuzzyTheCat posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
BuzzyTheCat posted...
And there are more people with the flu at any given time than own firearms. You post not only offers nothing, but is dumb **the censored version of what I was going to say**

The fact of the matter is you dont have a leg to stand on and the majority of America agrees with that statement. Stop listening to the Brady Campaign


Because a cold is on the same level as people owning firearms. You are just bring up irrelevant shit thinking you have a good point when you have nothing but deflections.

Besides I have no clue what this Brady Campaign is, but I do know I would like to live in an America where gun shootings aren't expected to happen once a month.

Considering the population of the US, mass shootings arent all that uncommon. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a place like Belgium where they are rare, because the entire country has a population the size of a single US city?


Which is irrelevant. I don't care if Belgium has low gun shootings, I care about the country I currently live in having too many and doing nothing about it.

Its not irrelevant, and if you cant see the population comparison you are too brain dead to continue responding to.


Because the issue isn't a population issue. Solving mass shootings does not suddenly mean gun violence and deaths will stop occuring which will still occur at a higher rate than countries with lower population.

There's no reason for the US to have such a high rate of planned mass killings. Whether the issue comes from inadequate gun regulations or poor mental healthcare.

Except gun violence doesnt occur in the US at a higher rate than other countries without cherry picking the data.


If that's true, then why were you defending mass shootings based on population. If we can have lower gun violence than other countries with higher population why can't we do the same with mass shootings.
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BuzzyTheCat
11/05/17 6:48:10 PM
#98:


GATTJT posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
I'll be honest. I don't think access to guns should be an inalienable right. I don't want them banned, but owning one should be a privilege like driving a car. Hell, the latter is far more necessary in everyday life and people still need to earn it.

Agreed, the 2nd amendment is outdated and needs to be amended or removed altogether.

Depending on what side you are on, the same could be said about all 10 of the Bill of Rights.
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DirkDiggles
11/05/17 6:48:46 PM
#99:


GregShmedley posted...

That isn't an acceptable response. In fact, it's nonsensical to suggest that one, all firearms are just crazy expensive and two, being poor automatically means purchasing a firearm will mean giving up a month's worth of food.

Maybe regroup and come back with a better retort instead of snide hyperbolic bullshit?


How many poor people do you know that have extra expendable money? $100 is a lot of money to quite a few poor people. Also, it may not mean giving up certain things but don't be so dense and miss the fucking point of my argument. Are you poor? Are you living paycheck to paycheck? If so, how do you prioritize your money? Do you buy what you want and skip out on the essentials or do you take care of the essentials first then buy what you want?
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GATTJT
11/05/17 6:51:50 PM
#100:


BuzzyTheCat posted...
GATTJT posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
I'll be honest. I don't think access to guns should be an inalienable right. I don't want them banned, but owning one should be a privilege like driving a car. Hell, the latter is far more necessary in everyday life and people still need to earn it.

Agreed, the 2nd amendment is outdated and needs to be amended or removed altogether.

Depending on what side you are on, the same could be said about all 10 of the Bill of Rights.

Hmmm, yes, the right to own a tool specifically designed to kill or injure is surely as important as the right to free speech and right against unreasonable search and seizure.
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