Current Events > Apparently the kick starter Project Phoenix is a huge scam

(+) Yeah! (+)

I just saw this on their FB page which was deleted twice. Not sure if it is still there. Took screenshots quickly before it went. Very worrying for both the backers and the industry.

https://imgur.com/gallery/hW83p






---

Have any Japanese kickstarters delivered a (good) product yet?
---

This is why I don't donate

Apparently the same news is popping up on some Facebook groups.
---

That's really the risk with kickstarter projects.
---

I have backed over 5 games and havent regretted them all.

All of my backed games have constant, consistent update. I guess i am a good judge of these things lol

Some of them have discord channel with room exclusive for backers, and i am happy how transparent they are with the updates.
---

Ushiromiya posted...

Have any Japanese kickstarters delivered a (good) product yet?

Shenmue 3
---

Kelystic posted...

Ushiromiya posted...

Have any Japanese kickstarters delivered a (good) product yet?

Shenmue 3

Not even released yet.
---

Dont give to Kickstarters. At all. If a company has a good product, they should be able to get traditional investments on their own merits and deliver on their promises. When you ask for funds in traditional avenues, their is enormous amounts of scrutiny so investors can make sure you know what you're doing. With Kickstarter, there's none whatsoever and it's easy no strings attached money.
---

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1300298569/project-phoenix-japans-indie-rpg-feat-aaa-talent/comments

Backers are commenting on it now. Feel kinda bad for them.
---

Every since FF15, I no longer trust Japanese video game developers.
---

Bump
---

KINDERFELD posted...

Every since FF15, I no longer trust Japanese video game developers.

Nihon falcom bro
---

apolloooo posted...

KINDERFELD posted...

Every since FF15, I no longer trust Japanese video game developers.

Nihon falcom bro

Thanks for proving my point.
Ys 8 is PS3 graphics sold on PS4 for $60.
---

KINDERFELD posted...

apolloooo posted...

KINDERFELD posted...

Every since FF15, I no longer trust Japanese video game developers.

Nihon falcom bro

Thanks for proving my point.
Ys 8 is PS3 graphics sold on PS4 for $60.

Graphics are overrated. Gameolay are still quality and trails series is probably still the best writing in all of jrpg.
---

Something like this happened before as well. I think it was with some kickstarter thing that namedropped someone who worked on...Final Fantasy I think. Like they were going to make a single player spiritual successor to a FF game, and basically just BS'd through and ended up trying to make a really shitty multiplayer game instead...and then that fell through and then some DIFFERENT company picked up the project to try and finish it. Or something.
---

I dont understand what happened
---

apolloooo posted...

KINDERFELD posted...

apolloooo posted...

KINDERFELD posted...

Every since FF15, I no longer trust Japanese video game developers.

Nihon falcom bro

Thanks for proving my point.
Ys 8 is PS3 graphics sold on PS4 for $60.

Graphics are overrated. Gameolay are still quality and trails series is probably still the best writing in all of jrpg.

what about the unplayable translation
---

Kelystic posted...

Ushiromiya posted...

Have any Japanese kickstarters delivered a (good) product yet?

Shenmue 3

You are part of the problem. Literally isn't out yet and you haven't played it, but claim it a "good product".

Ahmed would not approve.
---

apolloooo posted...

KINDERFELD posted...

apolloooo posted...

KINDERFELD posted...

Every since FF15, I no longer trust Japanese video game developers.

Nihon falcom bro

Thanks for proving my point.
Ys 8 is PS3 graphics sold on PS4 for $60.

Graphics are overrated. Gameolay are still quality and trails series is probably still the best writing in all of jrpg.

I wonder why the PS4 Pro exceeded Sony's expectations in terms of sales?
---

Nightmare_Luna posted...

apolloooo posted...

KINDERFELD posted...

apolloooo posted...

KINDERFELD posted...

Every since FF15, I no longer trust Japanese video game developers.

Nihon falcom bro

Thanks for proving my point.
Ys 8 is PS3 graphics sold on PS4 for $60.

Graphics are overrated. Gameolay are still quality and trails series is probably still the best writing in all of jrpg.

what about the unplayable translation

Falcom had nothing to do with the translation, that's on NiSA being garbage. XSEED did a great job on the Trails series localizations

I think Kickstarter games were a fad that has ultimately died off unless you're someone like Obsidian. Too many hacks were taking advantage.

It's a shame because we'll never see a story like Shovel Knight again.
---

lmao at the imgur comment

josifrees posted...

I dont understand what happened

Fraud and/or embezzlement
---

I backed this one.

Eh, it happens. It sucks, but you know you are taking risks by backing. Including falling into a scam.
---

KINDERFELD posted...

Every since FF15, I no longer trust Japanese video game developers.

Let enlightenment into your heart.
Let Lan Di into your heart.
---

Darmik posted...

I think Kickstarter games were a fad that has ultimately died off unless you're someone like Obsidian. Too many hacks were taking advantage.

It's a shame because we'll never see a story like Shovel Knight again.

divinity original sin 2 came out last month and it's honestly one of the best rpgs i've played
---

I'm glad i didn't back that up. That's really old project though. I think its since 2012 or 2013.

I hope that fucker goes to prison.
---

Lol a lot of reddit posts of the past supposedly downvoted naysayers to hell because Nobuo Uematsu composed for it.

They probably threw some cash his way, he crunched up some bs C-game that he usually brings to non-FFs. The concept artist seems like he got a lot of cash
---

prince_leo posted...

Darmik posted...

I think Kickstarter games were a fad that has ultimately died off unless you're someone like Obsidian. Too many hacks were taking advantage.

It's a shame because we'll never see a story like Shovel Knight again.

divinity original sin 2 came out last month and it's honestly one of the best rpgs i've played

Plus that Kickstarter game from the creator of Castlevania is coming out soon as well
---

Is that technically illegal? I mean, it's horrible and immoral, but what law does it break, since the people sending you money are donating, not investing.

Tmaster148 posted...

That's really the risk with kickstarter projects.

And why I ironically only donate to AAA teams that are going through Kickstarter to get the more niche titles produced.
---

Dash_Harber posted...

Is that technically illegal? I mean, it's horrible and immoral, but what law does it break, since the people sending you money are donating, not investing.

More like it's flat out illegal lol. He got money for a large scale JRPG, used it to fund a cheap-ass game instead. Probably gonna earn back way more than a million too
---

DemonsHoles posted...

Plus that Kickstarter game from the creator of Castlevania is coming out soon as well

oh shit, i'm looking that up right now and can't believe I hadn't heard of it
---

Dash_Harber posted...

Is that technically illegal? I mean, it's horrible and immoral, but what law does it break, since the people sending you money are donating, not investing.

It would be fraud. Lying for monetary gain is fraud, regardless of why people give you the money.

JE19426 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Is that technically illegal? I mean, it's horrible and immoral, but what law does it break, since the people sending you money are donating, not investing.

It would be fraud. Lying for monetary gain is fraud, regardless of why people give you the money.

But by that logic, if I'm homeless and I say "I need money for food," when I just turn around and use that money on drugs, does that make begging illegal?

That said, I feel no sympathy for those who got scammed. It's like pre-preordering a game. Call yourself an investor if you want, but when the potential ROI is, at best, a chance to spend another $60, then you're not exactly a savvy investor.
---

I'm curious to see how these accusations pan out as the guy who made them would probably get in massive legal trouble for any sort of NDA he signed.
---

Muffinz0rz posted...

But by that logic, if I'm homeless and I say "I need money for food," when I just turn around and use that money on drugs, does that make begging illegal?

If they don't need food, and say they do then yes it would be fraud.

JE19426 posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

But by that logic, if I'm homeless and I say "I need money for food," when I just turn around and use that money on drugs, does that make begging illegal?

If they don't need food, and say they do then yes it would be fraud.

So why don't more homeless people do that then? Then they can just get arrested and get 3 meals a day in prison.
---

Muffinz0rz posted...

So why don't more homeless people do that then? Then they can just get arrested and get 3 meals a day in prison.

The police often can't be bothered to investigate it, and the victims rarely what to assist due to low monetary losses.

Kickstarter has gotten a bit better in the last four years when it comes to fraud projects. I don't know enough about this project to make any claims about it. Note that a project failing is different than fraud.

I've never had a problem with anything I've kickstarted.
---

Damn. I think the word should be spread so that nobody buys Tiny Metal.
---

legendarylemur posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Is that technically illegal? I mean, it's horrible and immoral, but what law does it break, since the people sending you money are donating, not investing.

More like it's flat out illegal lol. He got money for a large scale JRPG, used it to fund a cheap-ass game instead. Probably gonna earn back way more than a million too

But what law is it breaking, specifically. It doesn't run on the same rules as investing, since there is no contractual obligation to deliver, and it's not like a charity, since the purpose is not charitable and the money is not a tax write off.

Again, I'm not defending it. It's scummy regardless. I'm curious how this sort of business practice can slip through the cracks and why there isn't more protection against stuff like this.

I imagine the fact that much of this is done internationally probably protects the project designers even more.

Dash_Harber posted...

But what law is it breaking, specifically.

It would be fraud. As I already pointed out.

JE19426 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

But what law is it breaking, specifically.

It would be fraud. As I already pointed out.

But doesn't fraud carry some sort of implication of an investment or a benefit to the person giving the money? Like I said, they are not investors. IIRC, the official term would be donator.

I mean, we've seen situations where a product simply ran out of money and could not be made, and that is generally not considered fraud. Where is the line between mismanagement and outright deception, from a legal standpoint?

Dash_Harber posted...

But doesn't fraud carry some sort of implication of an investment or a benefit to the person giving the money?

No. It requires you lie for personal benefit.

I just wanted to say this is extremely old news. This is the first major kickstarter that turned vapor.

There were a ton of red flags I got reading that project's campaign page and even as a guy who throws money at everything on Kickstarter I refused to pledge to this one.
---

josifrees posted...

I dont understand what happened

Basically:
-They put together a fake company and run the kickstarter
-Take all the money from the kickstarter and put it in another company to make a game called Tiny Metal.
-All the while putting out fake updates on Project Phoenix
---