Board 8 > Why is ok to defend transgender but not ok to defend transrace?

(+) Yeah! (+)

wg64Z posted...

Solioxrz362 posted...

CherryCokes posted...

Okay, so, take this picture.

He is very clearly not white. His skin is black. Identifying as white is dumb here because he just isn't, and it doesn't really mean anything. Does that mean he's not the best with dealing with spices? Does that mean he no longer likes rap music as a black man and instead is going to listen to white people music? Does that mean he's going to oppress minorities? Is this the "white" of today or the "white" of the 1850s? Like, what exactly does he even mean by "I'm white now"?

See, trying to identify as a different race in that sense becomes stereotypical and borderline offensive. If you are identifying as a different "race" other than what race you were born for any reason other than you don't like the color of your skin, it's probably for a slightly offensive reason. He is saying "I'm going to act white" more than he's really saying "I'm white now". It's based on social construct and stereotype. And, even if it was because you wanted to be a different color, that wouldn't really change your heritage, which is another part of race.

That's why I don't think there's any real legitimacy to transracial. I believe transgender has something much more valid you can point to in order to explain it, and I would think it has something to do with biology, but to be honest, I don't know for sure. Either way, it still makes way more sense to me than transracial.

How is that any different from doing stereotypical Men and Women things for a trans person?

I've always been under the idea that most people who are trans have felt like they identified as the opposite gender for practically their entire life, as in the difference in identity began in the early stages of someone's life, in early psychological development. There is definitely a lot of social construct involved in transgender situations as well, but there may also be hormonal differences, and then many people who are trans go out of their way to push those hormonal differences further.

The reason transgender makes more sense than transracial is that if you decide to just change your race when you're in your 20s and be "transracial", I don't buy it. Not even all people of a certain race do things the same way, so changing your race literally means nothing. You can take part in a different culture and be a part of a group without having to tell people you changed your race and left your old race behind. Like, what? I just don't get that. And I think you can identify with a couple different races, or you could just consider race to be your biology if you don't think you have a culture that really corresponds to a group of people and their origin. I guess what I'm saying is the way we define race doesn't really allow for "transracial" to be a thing. You can change your personal culture all you want, and you can drop parts of your culture, but race? I don't think it works the same way.

This is just how I see it. If transracial really becomes a thing, I don't think I'll ever buy into it.

Talking about this more also has me questioning what exactly we're defining as race here. Like, if you went to the doctor and they asked for your race, they are going to most likely want your biological origin. However, if you were born in one place but really raised mostly in another and have lived there with that group for your whole life, you have your citizenship there, and all of that, and someone asked you on a non-medical survey what race you are, it makes sense to put the race you live in now as less of a biological race and more of an origin/cultural race. But culture is still different than race.
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Maybe there is no good definition to it, and maybe that's why I'm struggling to see legitimacy with transracial. I can see altering a culture and I can see belonging to a different ethnicity after spending decades in a different place. Race? Does it work like that? Are you able to drop one race for another? I don't think it's really established if it even can or can't work like that. Personally, I don't think it is, but that may even change depending on who you ask.

A google search gives this definition:
Race is a concept used in the categorization of humans into groups, called races or racial groups, based on combinations of shared physical traits, ancestry, genetics, and social or cultural traits.

So by that definition, it considers both biological and social factors. Does the presence of biological factors lock out the ability to be "trans" in that sense, or does the presence of social factors allow the ability to be "trans"?

I'm at the point where I believe I'm looking too much into it because there's no right or wrong answer here and I'm sticking to my original belief because it makes the most sense based on how I perceive race.
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Solioxrz362 posted...

Not even all people of a certain race do things the same way, so changing your race literally means nothing.

Are you implying that all people of a certain gender do things the same way? >_>
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I think the biggest problem is that we're not talking about race at all, we're talking about cultures that are stereotyped with a race (or vice-versa).

I look Hispanic. Does that mean I need to identify as such? Not really, but I could if I wanted to. Does that mean I need to get in touch with a culture that is foreign to me? No. Do I need to learn Spanish for the sake of it being something "my people" do? No.

That's why people call me transrace. I don't agree with it because to me none of this is about race. I was born and raised in Southern California, so I consider myself American culturally and I try to avoid racial labels in general. So why call myself white if asked? Because when I say I'm Hispanic or simply look Hispanic, people treat me as something other than American. I get ads in Spanish, I get comments about Mexico, and so on. It's just easier to say I'm white since that's true (even though many would not consider me to be) and that's why people have considered me transrace.
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MZero11 posted...

Solioxrz362 posted...

Not even all people of a certain race do things the same way, so changing your race literally means nothing.

Are you implying that all people of a certain gender do things the same way? >_>

No, I am not. I am saying that I believe changing race changes actually nothing, because if you were to want to change your race in the example I gave, you wouldn't actually be wanting to change your race, you'd simply be altering your personal culture.

However, since you bring that up, I think there are a lot of behavioral differences, at least when speaking about trends and tendencies across a population (because of course everyone is different), between men and women, and many of those differences can be linked to something biological (I don't know enough to say what the percentage is or anything. I just know that some are linked to biology).

And, even speaking about the social roles and social constructs, those behaviors seem much more tied to gender than any racial social constructs are actually tied to race. That is to say, the roles that we've created for genders are much more deep-set in society than racial constructs are. Maybe this is just because I'm American and this country doesn't really have a definite national racial identity, and I don't consider myself to belong to a specific "race" outside of what I was born as, but a lot of what we perceive to be things tied to race have always seemed more like personal traits rather than racial traits. Social gender traits are far more well defined from what I can tell. Although those aren't black and white either.
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Zachnorn posted...

I think the biggest problem is that we're not talking about race at all, we're talking about cultures that are stereotyped with a race (or vice-versa).

I look Hispanic. Does that mean I need to identify as such? Not really, but I could if I wanted to. Does that mean I need to get in touch with a culture that is foreign to me? No. Do I need to learn Spanish for the sake of it being something "my people" do? No.

That's why people call me transrace. I don't agree with it because to me none of this is about race. I was born and raised in Southern California, so I consider myself American culturally and I try to avoid racial labels in general. So why call myself white if asked? Because when I say I'm Hispanic or simply look Hispanic, people treat me as something other than American. I get ads in Spanish, I get comments about Mexico, and so on. It's just easier to say I'm white since that's true (even though many would not i consider me to be) and that's why people have considered me transrace.

I really like everything you said, actually. This almost seems closer to my own belief than what I'm saying lol
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@Solioxrz362 the post is too long to quote but the classic definition of transracial *literally* means someone adopted by people of a different ethnicity. So the example of a white person adopted by koreans is exactly that
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Well what's wrong with that? Nothing, and no one has an issue with that. Like, if you have an issue with people being adopted by other races then you're probably a racist. I honestly don't see how that's an issue.

I'm pretty sure we're not talking about situations like that, because there'd be no controversy there and no real conversation. Transracial seems to have taken on a different meaning in terms of this discussion. I assume we're all talking more along the lines of Rachel Dolezal, who identifies as black even though she is white in a white family.
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https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/39422/

It has begun
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How else do you report your race to a campus? It's not like they hire a PI to track you down and verify your race.

You check a box on a form
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DeepsPraw posted...

How else do you report your race to a campus? It's not like they hire a PI to track you down and verify your race.

You check a box on a form

Just ask Elizabeth Warren.
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Okay, so I read the article and its source, and this has nothing to do with transracialism at all. What was happening was that foreign PoC students and students of Asian descent weren't being tallied for multicultural programs and functions. The school only recognized blacks, latinos, and native americans and they're looking to change that.
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wow I can't believe that clearly neutral unbiased website thecollegefix.com would mislead people
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/39422/

It has begun

Very good news.
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http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/hypa.12327/full

In any case, it is not clear how one can affirm that it is possible to feel like a member of another sex but deny it is possible to feel like a member of another race.
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Kyle Bowen posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/39422/

It has begun

Very good news.

This has literally always been a thing, right?

Like in job applications you can identify as a race, or you can choose not to?

FAKE NEWS
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White people have been identifying as 1/16th whatever they want for decades
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I identify as 1/16th Spiderman
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You know with a fraction of power comes a fraction of responsibility
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foolm0r0n posted...

You know with a fraction of power comes a fraction of responsibility

Your friendly proportional Spider-Man.
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foolm0r0n posted...

White people have been identifying as 1/16th whatever they want for decades

But society needs to acknowledge the race they identify with.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

You know with a fraction of power comes a fraction of responsibility

Your friendly proportional Spider-Man.

He has 1/16th the proportional strength of a spider!

Which might translate to roughly 1.25x his own body weight, which is more than an untrained person but like a quarter of what a weightlifter could do.
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Kyle Bowen posted...

But society needs to acknowledge the race they identify with.

Or else?
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foolm0r0n posted...

Kyle Bowen posted...

But society needs to acknowledge the race they identify with.

Or else?

Or its discrimination.
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No such thing as transracial in this context.
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