Current Events > Should these MtF trans women be legally required to use the male restroom?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Shadowplay posted...

The Admiral posted...

If you're trans and you can pass as a woman, use the women's room. If you can't, use the men's room.

This. People try to act as if how the person feels is all that matters, but how others perceive them is just as important.

To be fair, gender segregated bathrooms are pretty pointless. They were created during the Victorian era because it was "improper" to be near a lady while you shit. The whole "protect women from predators" thing is just a modern talking point used to justify the status quo. If someone wants to rape someone, a sign on a bathroom door wont deter them. I know it will never happen, but from a logical perspective, all bathrooms should be unisex.

Victorian-era Americans were segregated by gender in many spaces, Molotch said. There were ladies-only waiting rooms in train stations, and female-only reading rooms in libraries. As sex segregation has fallen to the wayside in other public spaces, bathrooms remain the last holdout.

https://www.livescience.com/54692-why-bathrooms-are-gender-segregated.html

Sayoria posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Yes, if these guys went into the female restroom, changing room or gym while my girl is in there I'd be angry.

Why? What do you think would happen to her if they were in there with her?

Considering how crazy people already are, I mean Americans elected Trump after all, that's all the evidence I need people are as dumb as a brick. I don't want to know what people would get up to when they have a method to break the rules.

Regardless of what gender transformation is available, it doesn't change the fact the male is inherently created different than the female body, especially when it comes to muscle and testosterone.
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OEIO999 posted...

Sayoria posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Yes, if these guys went into the female restroom, changing room or gym while my girl is in there I'd be angry.

Why? What do you think would happen to her if they were in there with her?

Considering how crazy people already are, I mean Americans elected Trump after all, that's all the evidence I need people are as dumb as a brick. I don't want to know what people would get up to when they have a method to break the rules.

Well, as a transgender woman who uses the women's rest room, I can assure you I am more worried for myself than anyone should be of me. Of men exploiting it calling themselves trans women? Sure. If they are actually trans women and put effort to look the part, then I really don't see a problem. are actually trans women and put effort to look the part, then I really don't see a problem.
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But that's the thing, how do you verify if they are post op or not, without literally pulling down their pants and how do you verify what intention they had for going through the change?

A basic scenario, guy dresses up as a girl, to do whatever ill intention they have.

People are crazy enough as they are, I don't need people to have me access to break the rules
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And this is why everyone hates you progressives/liberals/sjws and conservatives/alt right movement gain power. Cause of people like you.
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Typical sjw cretin, literally the scum of humanity. I don't want a sjw to even know the existence of my country, the very thought of people like you infesting my country is disgusting and would honestly turn me alt-right. I never said the developed world isn't LGBT accepting. But that doesn't mean everyone needs to have an iron clad mentality of the sjws. I know logic doesn't really apply to rambling nut jobs like you, so what's the point in trying to educate you. You're a lost cause.

You know the cretin is desperate when he calls me American. Probably thinks America is at the centre of the galaxy.

'Murrica!
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OEIO999 posted...

But that's the thing, how do you verify if they are post op or not, without literally pulling down their pants and how do you verify what intention they had for going through the change?

A basic scenario, guy dresses up as a girl, to do whatever ill intention they have.

People are crazy enough as they are, I don't need people to have me access to break the rules

I am pre-op. I still don't do anything. I have never seen a woman naked in a bathroom, nor have they seen me naked. I will however, be getting a sex change in May, so that will be taken care of soon.

The thing is, how many times can you say that a transgender woman or someone claiming to be, has assaulted someone in the women's restroom? Assaults happen regardless of law. Men have in the past, entered women's rooms to sexually assault women. I have yet to hear of an actual assault performed by a person claiming to be transsexual. Even if there is one, there's far less than anything worth worrying about.
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OEIO999 posted...

Typical sjw cretin, literally the scum of humanity. I don't want a sjw to even know the existence of my country, the very thought of people like you infesting my country is disgusting and would honestly turn me alt-right. I never said the developed world isn't LGBT accepting. But that doesn't mean everyone needs to have an iron clad mentality of the sjws. I know logic doesn't really apply to rambling nut jobs like you, so what's the point in trying to educate you. You're a lost cause.

You know the cretin is desperate when he calls me American. Probably thinks America is at the centre of the galaxy.

'Murrica!

lol u mad

Wherethisfeom posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Typical sjw cretin, literally the scum of humanity. I don't want a sjw to even know the existence of my country, the very thought of people like you infesting my country is disgusting and would honestly turn me alt-right. I never said the developed world isn't LGBT accepting. But that doesn't mean everyone needs to have an iron clad mentality of the sjws. I know logic doesn't really apply to rambling nut jobs like you, so what's the point in trying to educate you. You're a lost cause.

You know the cretin is desperate when he calls me American. Probably thinks America is at the centre of the galaxy.

'Murrica!

lol then I was right, if your country isn't very recognizable then you do live in an undeveloped backwoods country. I mean, if you're any indication it must be an uneducated uncivilized trash country. For the record, I live in Canada aka the currently most reputable country in the world. You certainly sound like an American though, which would make sense because you are the type of person who's constantly attacking the type of person he is himself.

Well, we Americans are practically middle-age neanderthals now. Hopefully in the future, we will get the freedom you people in Canada have and we will evolve into something that isn't so thick-skulled.
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Sayoria posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Yes, if these guys went into the female restroom, changing room or gym while my girl is in there I'd be angry.

Why? What do you think would happen to her if they were in there with her?

I remember some time ago when the "bathroom bills" were being discussed I made a topic about the creeps that would probably try to take advantage of all this to get into female bathrooms to try and assault females and actual transgenders - I was basically shouted out of my own topic with some very...VERY stupid logic: "they put laws in place to prevent these things - people wouldn't suddenly break those laws just because transgenders are allowed in bathrooms."

My point of view was that laws are broken ALL the time, that wouldn't suddenly change with this. If a man decides to try and exploit the new transgender policies to get to women/kids laws won't stop them. What's more if they actually commit the crime and are caught afterwards, do you think a parent or female victim will suddenly not feel damaged by this because "oh well they were caught breaking the law so the creep that did bad things to me will go to jail and all will be forgiven?"

I'm kinda at an impasse on all this; I do in fact think transgender individuals should have the freedom to go to the restroom without being harassed or ridiculed for it, I'm also a parent of two very young girls though and I don't even trust random strangers as it is around them - it's really tough for someone without children to understand what that feels like. I'm not gonna suddenly just change that view because an angry mob demands that I be 100% OK with the new policies, but at the same time I do think transgenders should not be isolated from the rest of the world as it's not fair to them.
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If they actually look like women and have undergone hormone therapy then they can use any bathroom they want.
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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

If they actually look like women and have undergone hormone therapy then they can use any bathroom they want.

I do agree with this.
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I don't want the government involved in bathroom rights period. Gender-segregated bathrooms probably shouldn't be a thing. Is there any compelling reason not to have unisex restroom facilities? I mean, plenty of college campuses have co-ed showers.

I say just keep the government out of it. If you insist on having gender-segregated facilities in your business or place of work, then it's on you to enforce those policies. Don't waste my tax dollars dragging law enforcement into it.

StridentArremer posted...

Don't waste my tax dollars dragging law enforcement into it.

Man your tax dollars are wasted on much worse and you don't say shit about it. That's real talk.
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If you have a vagina den go into da woman's, but if you have a penis den go into da mens, mens bathrooms are faster tbh
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

Man your tax dollars are wasted on much worse and you don't say shit about it.

Yes I do.

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Yes, if these guys went into the female restroom, changing room or gym while my girl is in there I'd be angry.

Why? What do you think would happen to her if they were in there with her?

I remember some time ago when the "bathroom bills" were being discussed I made a topic about the creeps that would probably try to take advantage of all this to get into female bathrooms to try and assault females and actual transgenders - I was basically shouted out of my own topic with some very...VERY stupid logic: "they put laws in place to prevent these things - people wouldn't suddenly break those laws just because transgenders are allowed in bathrooms."

My point of view was that laws are broken ALL the time, that wouldn't suddenly change with this. If a man decides to try and exploit the new transgender policies to get to women/kids laws won't stop them. What's more if they actually commit the crime and are caught afterwards, do you think a parent or female victim will suddenly not feel damaged by this because "oh well they were caught breaking the law so the creep that did bad things to me will go to jail and all will be forgiven?"

I'm kinda at an impasse on all this; I do in fact think transgender individuals should have the freedom to go to the restroom without being harassed or ridiculed for it, I'm also a parent of two very young girls though and I don't even trust random strangers as it is around them - it's really tough for someone without children to understand what that feels like. I'm not gonna suddenly just change that view because an angry mob demands that I be 100% OK with the new policies, but at the same time I do think transgenders should not be isolated from the rest of the world as it's not fair to them.

While I am not a parent, I understand your concern. However, take the following into consideration:

- Transgender people aren't really even a fraction of society. We hardly make any indentation. The odds of your daughters sharing a bathroom with one of us would probably be once in every X amount of years, given there's no trans person in their school. Trans women have been around for hundreds of years. It is only now an issue honestly.

- Assaults and attacks are still against the law. All we seek in collaboration is to not face the law just to use the bathroom. If a person claiming to be trans goes into the bathroom and were to assault a young girl, the law would make haste on punishing this person for still violating law. Same goes if someone like Serena Williams came in there, pinned a child down and had her way with her. Being transgender is not a free pass and most in opposition think it is.

- Young(er) girls are usually accompanied by their mothers in the bathroom. Those over that age are capable and knowledgeable enough to yell for help if anything bad were to happen. If she is within a 12 years or younger bracket, most places she goes out to, she's most likely to have an adult with her also, waiting outside for her to come out or whatever.

- Trans women see no parts of women in the bathrooms. Women see no parts of trans women in bathrooms. If this was a locker room, I could see this concern justified. I always use the bathroom and never once saw breasts or a vagina exposed. This is a concern that has been blown out of proportion for a while now, however how many cases have been reported in accommodating states that you know of?

It's really not as bad as people opposing make it out to be. We are generally speaking, modest and don't want to even be "caught".... we just want to get in and out as fast as we can.
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We need to actually treat these people instead of normalizing this mental disorder.
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Sayoria posted...

It's really not as bad as people opposing make it out to be.

See, here's the issue:

I'm not asking to be reassured that Transgender individuals will stay on their best behavior - I expect that aspect of it not to change.

I also pointed out that I DO feel that there shouldn't be laws put into place that prohibits transgender individuals from using the bathroom of which they identify with.

It seems every time I bring up my concerns it is met with reasoning as to why I shouldn't be concerned; and without fail it's from folks that don't have kids and don't understand that often times with parents that concern can be built-in; it's not like I'm saying I wouldn't let my girls share a bathroom with a transgender person, that's not the case at all.

I also thought I was clear that my issue isn't even with transgenders, but with the assholes that would try to exploit the opportunity and take advantage...if an actual transgender person were to commit a crime like that I imagine that would open up a whole new can of worms.

I just find it odd that I'm being shouted down (not by you) by folks that don't understand that in the grand scheme I don't have a problem with that level of equality; that said I'm allowed to have concerns about it warranted or not.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

It's really not as bad as people opposing make it out to be.

See, here's the issue:

I'm not asking to be reassured that Transgender individuals will stay on their best behavior - I expect that aspect of it not to change.

I also pointed out that I DO feel that there shouldn't be laws put into place that prohibits transgender individuals from using the bathroom of which they identify with.

It seems every time I bring up my concerns it is met with reasoning as to why I shouldn't be concerned; and without fail it's from folks that don't have kids and don't understand that often times with parents that concern can be built-in; it's not like I'm saying I wouldn't let my girls share a bathroom with a transgender person, that's not the case at all.

I also thought I was clear that my issue isn't even with transgenders, but with the assholes that would try to exploit the opportunity and take advantage...if an actual transgender person were to commit a crime like that I imagine that would open up a whole new can of worms.

I just find it odd that I'm being shouted down (not by you) by folks that don't understand that in the grand scheme I don't have a problem with that level of equality; that said I'm allowed to have concerns about it warranted or not.

I understand it from your view. It's why I am a moderate. I try to take the view from both sides of the fence. That's why like I am with many trans people on here, I will side against people when I feel they are a little ridiculous. I never 100% take a side. I think the best course of action is to always hear out concerns, then pincer the problem together.
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Sayoria posted...

It's really not as bad as people opposing make it out to be.

I generally agree with your post, but to add a point of my own, I'm actually a bit offended that there's an underlying assumption that - just because I'm a male - I can't be anywhere near a room full of women due to some perceived propensity to commit rape.

What's even more interesting is how this logic isn't applied to gay men who share restrooms, lockers and showering facilities with other guys. If trans people are going to be singled out, why not gay men as well? Should we establish special facilities exclusively for gay dudes so there's no risk of male-on-male rape?

Sayoria posted...

Japanese Crack: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5pzggr

Why would you do this to me...
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StridentArremer posted...

Sayoria posted...

It's really not as bad as people opposing make it out to be.

I generally agree with your post, but to add a point of my own, I'm actually a bit offended that there's an underlying assumption that - just because I'm a male - I can't be anywhere near a room full of women due to some perceived propensity to commit rape.

What's even more interesting is how this logic isn't applied to gay men who share restrooms, lockers and showering facilities with other guys. If trans people are going to be singled out, why not gay men as well? Should we establish special facilities exclusively for gay dudes so there's no risk of male-on-male rape?

Even if you segregated gay men into gay bathrooms, there's still sex chance.
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In government facilities, they should b able use the bathroom they want.

In businesses, the business owner should be able to decide who uses what bathroom ( or forbid people from using the bathrooms entirely).
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

Japanese Crack: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5pzggr

Why would you do this to me...

Because I shouldn't be the only one to suffer.
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Sayoria posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

Japanese Crack: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5pzggr

Why would you do this to me...

Because I shouldn't be the only one to suffer.

Dis isn't right...
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

Japanese Crack: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5pzggr

Why would you do this to me...

Because I shouldn't be the only one to suffer.

Dis isn't right...

I can make it better. There's 6 versions of that video!

V1 - Just Jonte dancing - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5hmgqg
V2 - In my sig.
V3 - All boys singing along - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5qvw1r (This one is dead now though)
V4 - All girls singing along - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5qvwgs
V5 - 100% sung by the kids with a few change ups- http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5rqosu
V6 - Parapara - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5rvjqz
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Sayoria posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

Japanese Crack: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5pzggr

Why would you do this to me...

Because I shouldn't be the only one to suffer.

Dis isn't right...

I can make it better. There's 6 versions of that video!

V1 - Just Jonte dancing - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5hmgqg
V2 - In my sig.
V3 - All boys singing along - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5qvw1r (This one is dead now though)
V4 - All girls singing along - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5qvwgs
V5 - 100% sung by the kids with a few change ups- http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5rqosu
V6 - Parapara - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5rvjqz

I will do everything within my power to have you banned.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Sayoria posted...

Japanese Crack: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5pzggr

Why would you do this to me...

Because I shouldn't be the only one to suffer.

Dis isn't right...

I can make it better. There's 6 versions of that video!

V1 - Just Jonte dancing - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5hmgqg
V2 - In my sig.
V3 - All boys singing along - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5qvw1r (This one is dead now though)
V4 - All girls singing along - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5qvwgs
V5 - 100% sung by the kids with a few change ups- http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5rqosu
V6 - Parapara - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5rvjqz

I will do everything within my power to have you banned.

You can try. Everyone does. :P
---

Deadpool_18 posted...

We need to actually treat these people instead of normalizing this mental disorder.

Qft. Sooner or later people will normalise skin color change through surgery or treat people adding wings to their back to act like birds, normal, instead of the mental disorder they are.

If someone came to me asking me to treat them like a giraffe, I'd amuse them first, but if they keep at it, I would recommend they seek help, cause clearly something got fucked up.

Same thing with transgenders, you are born to accept and love who you are, not change completely to become something you're not.

Even worse since they try to integrate and hide behind the LGB community, who are accepting who they are, not running away from it or changing for some ill intent.
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Shadowplay posted...

The Admiral posted...

If you're trans and you can pass as a woman, use the women's room. If you can't, use the men's room.

This. People try to act as if how the person feels is all that matters, but how others perceive them is just as important.

This...

jesus fucking christ you goddamned SJWs need to... nevermind,

Lugenpresse posted...

Shadowplay posted...

The Admiral posted...

If you're trans and you can pass as a woman, use the women's room. If you can't, use the men's room.

This. People try to act as if how the person feels is all that matters, but how others perceive them is just as important.

This...

jesus fucking christ you goddamned SJWs need to... nevermind,

You realize you cant have a law that says "if you look female, you can use the female restroom", right? That is too subjective. It is an all-or-nothing issue.

CiIantro posted...

Lugenpresse posted...

Shadowplay posted...

The Admiral posted...

If you're trans and you can pass as a woman, use the women's room. If you can't, use the men's room.

This. People try to act as if how the person feels is all that matters, but how others perceive them is just as important.

This...

jesus fucking christ you goddamned SJWs need to... nevermind,

You realize you cant have a law that says "if you look female, you can use the female restroom", right? That is too subjective. It is an all-or-nothing issue.

Then no...

Lugenpresse posted...

CiIantro posted...

Lugenpresse posted...

Shadowplay posted...

The Admiral posted...

If you're trans and you can pass as a woman, use the women's room. If you can't, use the men's room.

This. People try to act as if how the person feels is all that matters, but how others perceive them is just as important.

This...

jesus fucking christ you goddamned SJWs need to... nevermind,

You realize you cant have a law that says "if you look female, you can use the female restroom", right? That is too subjective. It is an all-or-nothing issue.

Then no...

And that is where we disagree. I think segregated bathrooms are pointless to begin with. They were created during the Victorian era because it was considered improper for a woman to be near a man while he shits.

We should take the signs off restrooms.
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CiIantro posted...

Lugenpresse posted...

CiIantro posted...

Lugenpresse posted...

Shadowplay posted...

The Admiral posted...

If you're trans and you can pass as a woman, use the women's room. If you can't, use the men's room.

This. People try to act as if how the person feels is all that matters, but how others perceive them is just as important.

This...

jesus fucking christ you goddamned SJWs need to... nevermind,

You realize you cant have a law that says "if you look female, you can use the female restroom", right? That is too subjective. It is an all-or-nothing issue.

Then no...

And that is where we disagree. I think segregated bathrooms are pointless to begin with. They were created during the Victorian era because it was considered improper for a woman to be near a man while he shits.

And I think you're fucking insane.

Bathrooms were never legally enforced.
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weapon_d00d816 posted...

Bathrooms were never legally enforced.

Also this
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Lugenpresse posted...

CiIantro posted...

Lugenpresse posted...

CiIantro posted...

Lugenpresse posted...

Shadowplay posted...

The Admiral posted...

If you're trans and you can pass as a woman, use the women's room. If you can't, use the men's room.

This. People try to act as if how the person feels is all that matters, but how others perceive them is just as important.

This...

jesus fucking christ you goddamned SJWs need to... nevermind,

You realize you cant have a law that says "if you look female, you can use the female restroom", right? That is too subjective. It is an all-or-nothing issue.

Then no...

And that is where we disagree. I think segregated bathrooms are pointless to begin with. They were created during the Victorian era because it was considered improper for a woman to be near a man while he shits.

And I think you're fucking insane.

People resort to name-calling when they can't defend their position.

Lugenpresse posted...

CiIantro posted...

Lugenpresse posted...

CiIantro posted...

Lugenpresse posted...

Shadowplay posted...

The Admiral posted...

If you're trans and you can pass as a woman, use the women's room. If you can't, use the men's room.

This. People try to act as if how the person feels is all that matters, but how others perceive them is just as important.

This...

jesus fucking christ you goddamned SJWs need to... nevermind,

You realize you cant have a law that says "if you look female, you can use the female restroom", right? That is too subjective. It is an all-or-nothing issue.

Then no...

And that is where we disagree. I think segregated bathrooms are pointless to begin with. They were created during the Victorian era because it was considered improper for a woman to be near a man while he shits.

And I think you're fucking insane.

Why? Because he isn't thinking of the children? Do you worry about gay and lesbian predators? Do you worry that there are no locks and armed guards preventing anyone from going into any bathroom at any time? What are even the stats on bathroom sexual abuse and bathroom sexual abuse while posing as the opposite sex?
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hockeybub89 posted...

Why? Because he isn't thinking of the children? Do you worry about gay and lesbian predators? Do you worry that there are no locks and armed guards preventing anyone from going into any bathroom at any time? What are even the stats on bathroom sexual abuse and bathroom sexual abuse while posing as the opposite sex?

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Its up to the owner of the establishment. If its a restaurant, most owners wont care and may go all gender neutral. Just go one at a time and lock the door. If you own a gym and have locker rooms, things are more complex. Creeps can say, gender is on a spectrum guys! I know I have a beard but dont be a bigot. Im a girl today. Regressives cant argue with that.
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tennisdude818 posted...

Regressives cant argue with that.

lol your argument is invalidated the moment you start calling names.