Board 8 > Star Wars The Last Jedi discussion (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah, I agree that Luke's definitely coming back, although only Rey will be able to see him as a Force Ghost (unless I'm really misunderstanding how Force Ghosts work). Given what Force Ghosts are now seemingly able to accomplish, I'm not even sure about the significance of killing him off at the end of the movie, apart from demonstrating how taxing his final Force feat was.
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I think the significance of it is what Rey stated at the end. Luke was finally at peace and died after finding a reason to fight again. Like Obi-Wan and Yoda, his body completely disappeared as opposed to just dying. I don't think he'll be pulling off crazy stunts in Episode IX though.
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GANON1025 posted...

While we don't know much about Snoke's backstory, we didn't know anything about the Emperor's backstory either in the OT.

Yeah, but he didn't have previous material he was inexplicably absent from either.
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LeonhartFour posted...

The TIE Fighters aren't strong enough to breach the shields on their own.

they were strong enough when it came time to kill most of the resistance leadership

anyway the reason given was actually 'we can't support you at that distance' which I'm not sure means what exactly
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did Palpatine even get mentioned in New Hope? I don't think he had much of a presence, if any, in Empire either - basically equivalent to Snoke in Force Awakens at best. it wasn't until Jedi (argh) that Palpatine got some significant screentime.

I feel like Snoke got that in a compressed setting and just bit the bullet early. the downside is that Snoke seemed like he was the most powerful character that we'd seen to date and then just took all that with him, who he was, where he came from, etc. maybe that gets fleshed out in one of these inbetween movies that we seem to be getting. I think I'm okay with Snoke going down like he did because it was such a strong scene for Kylo who badly needed a show of power that wasn't so sniveling.

and yeah, I agree that the light saber dance afterwards wasn't impactful. I think I said earlier that i was surprised that there basically wasn't a light saber battle in this Jedi. there were three kinda sorta battles involving jedi/sith characters and none of them really counted.
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Nah, Palpatine isn't in ANH at all. He speaks to Vader once in Empire.

also you can say "Return" instead of "Jedi" (although I guess "Last" is weird but people will still understand)
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I feel like it's "Jedi" and "Last Jedi". Jedi is the progenitor and doesn't need to qualify itself.
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(it's like when a kid is named after the dad and the dad retains his name and the kid is called George Foreman II or something. Jedi II it is)
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I don't know if George Foreman is the one you want to take inspiration from on this one or we'll end up with Jedi III and Jedi IV and Jedi V and Jedi VI and maybe a Jediette
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I went there because I don't trust Disney to stop making things named Jedi
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Jedi Jr
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Episode IX: The Last Jedi: Part Two
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Palps was mentioned briefly in ANH when Tarkin enters the board room (The Imperial Senate is no longer of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently).
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I'm just arguing against this point:

Like Palpatine, he was killed by his own arrogance, but the Snoke/Ren/Rey story wasn't built up nearly as much as Palpatine/Vader/Luke, so it wasn't nearly as powerful a moment.

the buildup was basically one movie. slightly more than Snoke, but only because he bit it in the middle of the movie. that might be the most shocking thing in a Star Wars movie to date.
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The emperor absolutely gets brought up in ANH. It's when Tarkin talks about how he disbanded the Senate.

I don't think any OT movie actually says his name, though.

Edit: Slow phone paying is slow.
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Okay, yeah, he's very briefly mentioned in passing in ANH, but you'd never think anything of it if you were watching Star Wars for the first time.
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JonThePenguin posted...

Palps was mentioned briefly in ANH when Tarkin enters the board room (The Imperial Senate is no longer of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently).

Grand Moff Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
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General Tagge: That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?
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Killing Snoke midway was brilliant in the sense of how it leaves Kylo with no damn purpose at all except to murder every bit of "FULFILL YOUR DESTINY" bullshit he can find. I kind of expect him to pull a Darth Nihilus and try to kill the Force in general. Seems like the logical step
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Finally saw it. One thing that really REALLY annoyed me was them offing Ackbar so casually. Like, I wasn't this pissed about Han dying.
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I was all for Kylo offing Snoke. Thought it would have been great to do after TFA to establish him as a character. Better if they somehow make him morally grey and not full edgelord in Episode IX, but that might be a stretch.

Phasma getting unceremoniously dumpstered was high unintentional comedy.
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Wedge Antilles posted...

Finally saw it. One thing that really REALLY annoyed me was them offing Ackbar so casually. Like, I wasn't this pissed about Han dying.

I'd agree with you but who are you again

I know the Emperor's backstory is never touched on in the OT, but you don't really need to because it's the starting point of the Star Wars story. Going into the whole backstory of the Empire/Emperor wasn't as necessary back then because there was no continuity to worry about. Now there is.

This Disney trilogy isn't a part of a reset universe, and it isn't taking place in an alternate timeline. It's taking place ~30 years after the Rebels killed Palpatine, blew up the second Death Star, and ostensibly destroyed the Empire, and fans are all aware of that. To never touch on the rise of the First Order/Snoke during those 30 years is, at the very least, lazy storytelling.
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I mean, there's still plenty of time to give Snoke and his kind a backstory, but just getting him out of the way is for the best one way or the other.
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Maybe getting killed was part of Snoke's plan all along

maybe he'll be an EVIL force ghost
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oh man Luke vs. Snoke Force Ghost Duel

book it
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Force ghost is a light side ability, isn't it? At least, I think it was. I do wonder if Snoke really is dead for good. Most people seem to be of the opinion that he is.
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Snoke is playing the long game
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he played long enough to forget he was still playing
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Am I the only one who would've rather had Luke just go full Obi-Wan callback than give him the big cool moment and...have him die afterwards anyway?
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Is SNOKE actually QUI GON JINN?

Snoke, to Kylo Ren after his return: "There's always a bigger fish"
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Tom Bombadil posted...

Am I the only one who would've rather had Luke just go full Obi-Wan callback than give him the big cool moment and...have him die afterwards anyway?

Luke dying is still the stupidest thing in the movie to me

Even with all the plotholes and stuff people pointed out (which are legitimate), nothing beats how dumb and random that was.

Nah, swerving it to play into Kylo Ren's inner guilt (because no matter how much he claims he wants to kill his past, he'll never be able to) was great. Kylo Ren needed to be punked super hard. I would've been incredibly disappointed if he just got to kill Luke, and it would've served no purpose anyway. Obi-Wan let himself be killed so he could be a greater help to Luke. There's no reason for Luke to let Kylo kill him, especially since Rey's not even there to witness it.
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There are rumors that not even Mark Hamill knew that Luke would die since the effects were added in post and he only found out at the premier.
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Grand Kirby posted...

There are rumors that not even Mark Hamill knew that Luke would die since the effects were added in post and he only found out at the premier.

That would be a nice callback to ESB since David Prowse didn't know Vader was Luke's father because he was given different dialogue in that scene than what James Earl Jones had.
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I certainly hope that isn't true. I feel like it would be pretty disrespectful to hide the fact that they killed off his character from him.
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I don't really get what Luke's Force Projection tangibly accomplished. I understand that Luke will now serve as an inspiration for the Resistance... but was that his goal? What was he trying to do? Give the Resistance time to escape? It seemed like everyone there - good guys and bad - were too busy watching Luke to bother escaping. Was he trying to troll Kylo? Mission accomplished (got em good!), but how does that really affect Kylo long-term?

And yeah, the death was stupid. I'm really surprised Rian Johnson stuck with it because it could have easily been changed after Carrie Fisher's death.
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Give the Resistance time to escape? It seemed like everyone there - good guys and bad - were too busy watching Luke to bother escaping.

Well, until they actually started escaping when Poe said "hey he's giving us time to escape let's escape"

But Luke was essentially trying to give them a new new hope by standing up to Kylo and the First Order
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Why did he die anyway
Used too much energy?
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also Kylo is incredibly emotionally sensitive so I'm pretty sure the fact that Luke got him good actually will stick with him
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Does anyone else think that Episode 9 will have a big time skip to give the Resistance time to rebuild and for Rey to build up some Jedi Knights to combat the Knights of Ren?
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I think everyone is expecting that especially with Leia being gone
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big time skip is the easiest way to give Leia a write-off that doesn't seem silly
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Hell, make it a four year time skip
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By the way, what's the general consensus with TLJ's chronology - did it start immediately after TFA (Rey/Luke's first interaction suggested this), or was there some time between the two films (which is suggested by the main space battle story at the start)?
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I have no idea how far Luke was actually supposed to be projecting to do that from Ahch-To to Crait, but it had to have been fairly ridiculous
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I think the Rey/Luke stuff isn't all happening concurrently with the rest of the stuff. The space battle takes place over the course of a single day, so it'd be hard to fit it in there with all of that.
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this move rocks
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