Current Events > How are unpaid internships not illegal?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Literally free labor.

"Oh but the WORK EXPERIENCE!"

Bullshit, every job is an opportunity for experience. That includes jobs that actually pay you.
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Cause people can choose to do something if they wish
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People like to know you've worked for free because it shows that you're work minded instead of money driven. Employers like to forget that the employee still has the end goal on their mind.

So, yeah. Whether an internship or a certain amount of volunteer work, employers like to know that you aren't counting your dimes by the minute.

Skye Reynolds posted...

People like to know you've worked for free because it shows that you're work minded instead of money driven. Employers like to forget that the employee still has the end goal on their mind.

So, yeah. Whether an internship or a certain amount of volunteer work, employers like to know that you aren't counting your dimes by the minute.

Then it should be on the employer to find people who have genuine passion for the position, then.

I mean, working and not making a cent to even buy yourself food to eat is ridiculous.
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What is your view on volunteering?
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Unpaid internships are another way to beat students down and set them further back in life, nothing more.

Its slave labor, it should be illegal.

The logic of 'oh well, employers want to know you're work driven, they don't want to hire someone counting their dollars by the minute!' Is bullshit. My boss literally said to us at our last staff meeting, "well folks, I'm here to make a shitload of money. Is anyone here not here to make a shitload of money?".

Its literally about keeping people on student lines of credit and broke for another year or 2. That's it. Its about slave labor.
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MonkeyBones23 posted...

What is your view on volunteering?

Something that usually applies to nonprofit organizations that exist solely to benefit their community, and not to maximize profit while cutting costs.
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Without them, companies would hire much fewer interns and students would lose in the end
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Without them, companies would hire much fewer interns and students would lose in the end

Not getting hired and finding a different job is somehow worse than slave labor.

This is why I took a trade
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Technically the people working them are doing so voluntarily...But i agree with you with regard to the moral implications i guess...most employers take advantage of the fact that a bunch of naive soon to be graduates will be willing to do that for a few months to "get experience"....the pool of those are never ending so they can easily just replace them when it comes time to have to offer them an actual job. Its shitty...
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Without them, companies would hire much fewer interns and students would lose in the end

So it's okay that people are working and aren't even paid enough money to cover the gas to get to their job?
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Depends on the situation I had two internships that were awesome. Really cool bosses, who let me be hands on with what I wanted to.

Learned a lot, did get a job offer. Also, my bosses were cool, bought me lunch from time to time. No restrictions on when I could leave, what time I should show up etc. It was up to me how much I wanted to put in or not, and it ended up being super cool.

I had another that sucked and was trying to treat me like a full employee without pay and I quit it after a couple days. No big deal

People should be able to offer their labor for whatever pay they feel is appropriate, even if that pay is nothing but experience. Stop trying to outlaw people's ability to negotiate. If you make those internships illegal, do you think suddenly they're going to get paid? No, they just won't offer them anymore. Stop meddling in people's business and let people do what they think is worth it for them. Seriously fuck off.
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On_The_Edge posted...

No, they just won't offer them anymore.

Somehow, I doubt that the sole incentive for companies to offer internships is because they want to "help poor ol' college students get valuable work experience".
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It's not like paid internships are uncommon, and it's common knowledge that unpaid internships are a bad deal. So if you don't want to do them, then don't.

But without them there would be more people trying to get fewer internships.
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On_The_Edge posted...

People should be able to offer their labor for whatever pay they feel is appropriate, even if that pay is nothing but experience. Stop trying to outlaw people's ability to negotiate. If you make those internships illegal, do you think suddenly they're going to get paid? No, they just won't offer them anymore. Stop meddling in people's business and let people do what they think is worth it for them. Seriously fuck off.

this post could not be more wrong if it tried
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Literally free labor.

unpaid interns are literally not allowed to do any work that generates money.

the joke about interns fetching coffee comes from the fact that it's like one of the few things an unpaid intern is allowed to do besides watch people work.

if you know someone who is working unpaid interns, that is a serious violation of law and you can report it.
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If youre putting in a full work day and not getting paid youre a cuck.

Idk, I'm glad they're not, though.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Literally free labor.

unpaid interns are literally not allowed to do any work that generates money.

the joke about interns fetching coffee comes from the fact that it's like one of the few things an unpaid intern is allowed to do besides watch people work.

if you know someone who is working unpaid interns, that is a serious violation of law and you can report it.

Is this true? If so what kind of stuff are they allowed to do then?
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Lol voluntarily. Sure, if "you don't get your degree if you don't do this slave work for us" counts as voluntarily.

Fiance literally forfeits 4 years of university if she won't do nearly 2 years of unpaid practicums, 35+ hours a week.

That's. Fucking. Ridiculous.
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Tupacrulez posted...

Lol voluntarily. Sure, if "you don't get your degree if you don't do this slave work for us" counts as voluntarily.

Fiance literally forfeits 4 years of university if she won't do nearly 2 years of unpaid practicums, 35+ hours a week.

That's. Fucking. Ridiculous.

Not to mention the barrier most jobs put around their entry level positions that almost require you to get an internship since that's the only position people with no work experience can get that isn't retail or fast food.
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It is fucked up especially because it's basically expected that you intern for most careers. In general, the American worker has been increasingly fucked over as various burdens were shifted onto them -- originally you'd start working at a company, they'd train you, and you'd climb the ladder. Now you're expected to pay for your own training through college, work for free for additional training, and companies are more likely to undercompensate you at every step.

TheVipaGTS posted...

Technically the people working them are doing so voluntarily..

It's not in the most traditional sense of the term "voluntary" given that it's basically an employment pre-req now for your first out-of-college job. It would be like people "volunteering" to work for less than minimum wage because companies have banded together and found a way to exploit a way around minimum age... actually, wait, it's exactly that. And, to make matters worse, the use of free labor helps companies depress employee wages and cut down on the headcount needs.
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Prestoff posted...

Is this true? If so what kind of stuff are they allowed to do then?

besides generic domestic tasks, I believe you can ask them to do things like shred documents, or ask them to do small things that you yourself have already done as a proof that they're actually learning, for example, in electronics, I might say "Please fetch me a 2kOhm resistor" to know that they understand how to figure out which resistor is 2kOhms. I would not be able to ask them to assemble a circuit board if the circuit board was intended to be sold. I could ask them to assemble a circuit board that was explicitly for internal training purposes.
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Zeus posted...

It is fucked up especially because it's basically expected that you intern for most careers. In general, the American worker has been increasingly fucked over as various burdens were shifted onto them -- originally you'd start working at a company, they'd train you, and you'd climb the ladder. Now you're expected to pay for your own training through college, work for free for additional training, and companies are more likely to undercompensate you at every step.

And the internship companies sometimes don't even have the decency to hire you once you graduate.
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Why does she have to do unpaid internships?
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Why does she have to do unpaid internships?

It's part of the curriculum at most schools.

That or it's heavily encouraged that you do them, otherwise you might as well throw your degree in the trash once you graduate.
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But why do they have to be unpaid?

From my experience most internships are paid.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

From my experience most internships are paid.

Uh, no they aren't lol.
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By making it illegal to work as an unpaid intern, you are reducing the number of total internships available.

Despite what a lot of millennials think, interns don't actually get very much work done for their employers in most cases. By making it illegal to do unpaid internships, you're basically limiting people to official internship programs (usually w/ bigger companies). You prevent them from networking their way into unpaid internships on their own in order to get their foot in the door.

It's one less way for young people to get experience on their resume. Internships don't just magically exist because you want them to.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

It's one less way for young people to get experience on their resume. Internships don't just magically exist because you want them to.

No, they exist because companies get something out of them.

They aren't out here offering internships to college kids out of the kindness of their hearts.

Let's be honest: it's their way of training "future employees" without a) having to pay for said training and b) having to commit to that "employee".
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Damn_Underscore posted...

From my experience most internships are paid.

what experience is that, exactly?
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ChromaticAngel posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Literally free labor.

unpaid interns are literally not allowed to do any work that generates money.

Seems strictly untrue for a number of professions, including newspaper interns who are often uncredited for writing stories. And some of the Daily Show's interns were noted as putting together graphics for the show.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Why does she have to do unpaid internships? Sounds like she went to the wrong university or chose the wrong major.

No, we don't live in the states.

Here, a practicum is essentially 'on the job training'. She works, and reports weekly on what she learns/practices at work. If she isn't being given appropriate work, her employer must adjust it for her.

She's majored in Social work, with a focus on the mental health field. She's likely going to do her practicums and her first 5 years of work at the Mental Health ward at the hospital here. After 5 years she can enter the Masters program. With a Masters degree, she can enter into her ACTUAL desired field, trauma counselling.

I mean, straight out of school she'll pull 42-48$/gr, and with a masters, can bill out for counselling above 90/hr. And she will get to actually help people.

But the unpaid practicums are bullshit. I'm just happy the Social Work faculty reduced some of their requirements otherwise. They used to require over 3,000 volunteer hours as well.

That's fucking ludicrous.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

It's one less way for young people to get experience on their resume. Internships don't just magically exist because you want them to.

No, they exist because companies get something out of them.

They aren't out here offering internships to college kids out of the kindness of their hearts.

There's a cost-benefit analysis, and by requiring them all to be paid, there are many internships that then cost too much relative to the benefit, thus making them nonexistent.
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Zeus posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Literally free labor.

unpaid interns are literally not allowed to do any work that generates money.

Seems strictly untrue for a number of professions, including newspaper interns who are often uncredited for writing stories. And some of the Daily Show's interns were noted as putting together graphics for the show.

I did not say it does not happen. I am just saying it's against the law.

edit: also, don't forget that paid interns also exist.
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Even if there are more internships that are unpaid than paid (which I don't think is true), there are more than enough paid internships available. Finding one should not be a problem.

Edit: this is to the TC
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Internships are very important and people should do them even if they are not paid. Most of these people will be hired anyways after 3-6 months and those who are not hired will get some experience for their next job.

You can succeed without trying. You might as well end in retail if you don't want to work hard.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

There's a cost-benefit analysis, and by requiring them all to be paid, there are many internships that then cost too much relative to the benefit, thus making them nonexistent.

The benefit is having a future employee on standby that you already know knows what they're doing, because you trained them yourself and will take considerably less time getting used to the work environment, because they've already been apart of it.

Which is less catastrophic than taking a risk on some numbskull who gave a glowing interview but might not be what you're looking for.

Internships are basically the company's way of sidestepping the cost of training their employees, with the added benefit of not having to commit to them. The student gets almost nothing out of it other than "work experience" that they could have gained anyway if companies weren't so hesitant to hire recent grads in the first place.
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Ontario sets out specific stipulations for how unpaid internships should work, but the reality is that you're going to end up doing the same work as a regular employee, driving down wages and not even being covered transportation costs for your effort. Unpaid internships as they currently exist are bullshit.

And lol at reporting them because good luck being known to all future employers as a dude who rats out his bosses.
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At LEAST cover transportation costs. The last internship I did at least compensated me for travel, which is fine.

I'm not saying internships should be paying regular employee wages, but I shouldn't be LOSING money for doing them.
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TheVipaGTS posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

From my experience most internships are paid.

what experience is that, exactly?

seeking internships.

In any case, essentially all major corporations offer paid internships, so look there first
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

At LEAST cover transportation costs. The last internship I did at least compensated me for travel, which is fine.

I'm not saying internships should be paying regular employee wages, but I shouldn't be LOSING money for doing them.

good companies do cover transportation

reddit actually posted openings for interns recently and they fucking pay for relocation.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

At LEAST cover transportation costs. The last internship I did at least compensated me for travel, which is fine.

I'm not saying internships should be paying regular employee wages, but I shouldn't be LOSING money for doing them.

A friend of mine had to commute to Toronto for an internship and the thank-you gift basket and card they gave her at the end didn't even cover the costs of taking the bus fare in the time she spent working for them.

of course canada is also the place where the previous governor of the Bank of Canada said "if you cant find a job then offer to work for free lol".
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

On_The_Edge posted...

No, they just won't offer them anymore.

Somehow, I doubt that the sole incentive for companies to offer internships is because they want to "help poor ol' college students get valuable work experience".

Of course not, nobody said that. They want free labor, the interns want experience. So they trade. How much exactly do you think those companies want the labor? 5 dollars an hour worth? That's illegal, because your shitty authoritarianism outlawed it. 10 dollars an hour worth? Nope, they don't want it that badly. Maybe they cant' afford it. So you just fucked someone out of the experience that they needed since you outlawed every other entry level job already, congrats.
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SGT_Conti posted...

of course canada is also the place where the previous governor of the Bank of Canada said "if you cant find a job then offer to work for free lol".

it's hilarious that these are the same people who complain that the lower class wants everything for free
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Agree. And I'm not agreeing because I've gone through this before.... OK maybe I did.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

People like to know you've worked for free because it shows that you're work minded instead of money driven. Employers like to forget that the employee still has the end goal on their mind.

So, yeah. Whether an internship or a certain amount of volunteer work, employers like to know that you aren't counting your dimes by the minute.

Then it should be on the employer to find people who have genuine passion for the position, then.

I mean, working and not making a cent to even buy yourself food to eat is ridiculous.

Then dont do it.
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I dunno how it works in the states, but over here internships are part of the education program you're at. Meaning that it's on the job training, and you already get subsidies to study. On such internships you as a worker aren't responsible for things that go wrong, etc, because you're not expected to be competent yet. So it makes sense for them to be unpaid.
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