Poll of the Day > How do you feel about SELF-DRIVING CARS?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm all for them becoming standard but I don't think driving by your own self should be made illegal.

Trancer Hunter posted...

I'm all for them becoming standard but I don't think driving by your own self should be made illegal.

It probably will eventually, but it's still a long ways off.
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dragon504 posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Take away people's cars or give them more trains, I wonder which is better for the people...

Build massive amounts of new infrastructure or upgrade an existing technology, hmm...

You don't drop AI in people's cars, you also don't get a self-driving car only society without taking their existing cars away, this isn't cheap or popular.

Infrastructure is a good thing, what do you have against expansion?

OhhhJa posted...

This is not true. What your saying isn't false but lots of traffic could be prevented if you take human error out of the equation

Some. Traffic.

Bad driving rarely causes traffic but when it does it is very visible, and you know what would help avoid that? Quality traffic reports, no advanced computing required.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

You don't drop AI in people's cars, you also don't get a self-driving car only society without taking their existing cars away, this isn't cheap or popular.

Infrastructure is a good thing, what do you have against expansion?

You're under some weird misconception that this will happen overnight, when it's going to take decades and be eased in. It already started years ago, with driverless parallel parking and has been gradually entering the car market ever since. Things like lane adjusting, braking assists, and monitoring sensors are the latest wave of additions and the market will expand from there.

Manually driving will eventually likely be reduced to a hobbyist activity imo and not completely gone, just not on the main roads. It might not be completely abolished either, just requiring a more rigorous process to get a manual driver's license.
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I fully support self-driving cars and fully support not having to be licensed to drive.

But I don't understand why GM is making a self-driving car with no steering wheel. Even the cars in Demolition Man had a manual override in case of emergencies.
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I'd rather have more walkable cities and better public transpiration instead of a solution (that I remain skeptical of) just so we can continue making god awful suburban sprawl.

As I said earlier, I support it as long as it's not mandatory. That's really the only thing.
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I want everyone to have one. We have horrible traffic here because no one seems to know how to drive without slamming into other people. If every car was self driving that would happen a LOT less.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Broken_Zeus posted...

I love them. I hope that society will move to them, considering that they're far safer and more convenient. That said, I'm concerned about the ability to have them hacked, etc, to kill people (or have the vehicle stolen, although they can be stolen now as well)

Why don't you fucking commies just get a season train pass and stop trying to ruin our fun?

...still gotta drive to get the train which, by the way, usually doesn't take you out anywhere close to your destination so you're driving again.

Krow_Incarnate posted...

One of these numbers is the yearly death rate from car crashes. The other is the amount of people in the world.

...you're aware that the global number includes a lot of countries where car ownership is either rare or unheard of, right? >_>

More importantly, that's STILL a significant number. It's four times the global murder rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Kyuubi4269 posted...

OhhhJa posted...

Probably no more traffic either... or at least heavily reduced traffic

Traffic isn't caused by bad driving, it's caused by bad infrastructure relative to traffic flow. No matter how automated you make driving, nobody would be willing to take a 30 minute detour because the main road is full of cars.

...he says while ignoring how many major traffic jams result from accidents.
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See also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHzzSao6ypE

dragon504 posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

SinisterSlay posted...

I want one.
Imagine having a single car for your household. You wake up, drive to work, send the car home, it grabs the kids, takes them to school, goes to the grocery store and picks up your groceries you ordered online and takes them home, your spouse empties the car, and then just before your work is done, it drives back to you and picks you up.

Or simpler example, your going to a football game, there is no parking anywhere near you. So you get dropped off at the door, and the car goes off to find parking on its own. When the game is done, you call the car back.

And let's not forget road trips. It would be really nice when driving down a long straight road for hours, to go take a nap in the backseat or watch a movie.

Driving is one of my favorite activities. Turning a wrench for 8 hours over a case of beer with friends (and my wife before she passed), and then testing it the next day to see what I shaved on my 1/4 mile time. And just driving in general. Feeling the g-forces, the clutch engaging and your right foot opening up the car into the power band. It's always been my #3 hobby in life after boxing and guns. Ever since I was a kid. There's just something about this visceral connection between man and machine as your car becomes an extension of your hand, knowing each engine rotation sound and feel in each gear. Especially high performance driving at a track (either drag strip or an actual circular track.)

How do I get something I love so much with what you're describing?

There will still be enthusiasts and places for drivers to go. Maybe auto cross will become more popular in the future.

I'm not saying you wouldn't still drive when able. But the drive to work every day is boring. Better to get a nap
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SinisterSlay posted...

dragon504 posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

SinisterSlay posted...

I want one.
Imagine having a single car for your household. You wake up, drive to work, send the car home, it grabs the kids, takes them to school, goes to the grocery store and picks up your groceries you ordered online and takes them home, your spouse empties the car, and then just before your work is done, it drives back to you and picks you up.

Or simpler example, your going to a football game, there is no parking anywhere near you. So you get dropped off at the door, and the car goes off to find parking on its own. When the game is done, you call the car back.

And let's not forget road trips. It would be really nice when driving down a long straight road for hours, to go take a nap in the backseat or watch a movie.

Driving is one of my favorite activities. Turning a wrench for 8 hours over a case of beer with friends (and my wife before she passed), and then testing it the next day to see what I shaved on my 1/4 mile time. And just driving in general. Feeling the g-forces, the clutch engaging and your right foot opening up the car into the power band. It's always been my #3 hobby in life after boxing and guns. Ever since I was a kid. There's just something about this visceral connection between man and machine as your car becomes an extension of your hand, knowing each engine rotation sound and feel in each gear. Especially high performance driving at a track (either drag strip or an actual circular track.)

How do I get something I love so much with what you're describing?

There will still be enthusiasts and places for drivers to go. Maybe auto cross will become more popular in the future.

I'm not saying you wouldn't still drive when able. But the drive to work every day is boring. Better to get a nap

For some people. My drive to work is like 10 minutes when I drive. No time for a nap. Though, that time would probably be longer with a self driving car...
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They're no Skynet, but I'll take them.
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When I first heard they were real, I immediately thought of Astro Boy. I knew a Tobio wouldn't be too far off, and I was right.
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It's funny when people try to claim that 1.3 million deaths a year is not enough go ask someone that lost a close relative to a car crash about "insignificant figures" in comparison to the total number of people. If we have the technology to make that number nearly 0 isn't that worth it?

This is like someone claiming that we should never invent the internet because it will take away their enjoyment of going to the library. Except in this case we are talking about saving people's lives vs. having a lot of fun driving a car (which is only for a limited group of people) TONS of people don't like driving and do the task out of necessity to get around.
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Monopoman posted...

It's funny when people try to claim that 1.3 million is not enough go ask someone that lost a close relative to a car crash about "insignificant figures" in comparison to the total number of people. If we have the technology to make that number nearly 0 isn't that worth it?

This is like someone claiming that we should never invent the internet because it will take away their enjoyment of going to the library.

It also fails to acknowledge how much of the worlds population lives in areas where people rarely drive or dont drive at all.

In the US people drive in their daily lives and car accidents are on of the leading causes of fatalities.
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I would say that bad drivers, drunk drivers, and tires drivers should use it. And everyone could drive normally. But I feel that they wouldn't admit to it.

Edit: Or if anybody just wants a self-driving car, they can also use it.

Either way, it wouldn't be as effective if everyone wasn't using it. So, whatever. Couldn't this cause other problems, like hacking? Or better sabotage...?
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LinkPizza posted...

I would say that bad drivers, drunk drivers, and tires drivers should use it. And everyone could drive normally. But I feel that they wouldn't admit to it.

Well already if you are caught drunk driving just one time the penalty is pretty damn severe. As time has gone on the government has recognized the threat a drunk driver can possess and has tried to limit their ability to drive as much as possible especially for repeat offenders.
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Monopoman posted...

LinkPizza posted...

I would say that bad drivers, drunk drivers, and tires drivers should use it. And everyone could drive normally. But I feel that they wouldn't admit to it.

Well already if you are caught drunk driving just one time the penalty is pretty damn severe. As time has gone on the government has recognized the threat a drunk driver can possess and has tried to limit their ability to drive as much as possible especially for repeat offenders.

Yeah. Except I've seen many repeat offenders that, while punished, still end up driving a good amount afterwards. Either way, even if we punish them by making them drive self driving cars, you wouldn't be able to tell at a glance if you're a cop on the roads. So, yeah...
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MannerSaurus posted...

99.9% of all accidents are caused by human error

In the future, the people that don't use self-driving cars will be seen as archaic stupid and reckless.

The media will either demonize them or praise them, depending on what makes them more money.

Mark my words.
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Yellow posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

99.9% of all accidents are caused by human error

In the future, the people that don't use self-driving cars will be seen as archaic stupid and reckless.

The media will either demonize them or praise them, depending on what makes them more money.

Mark my words.

By the time self-driving cars become the norm, they problem won't make manual cars anymore. Except for maybe racing. But not for regular sell. That also takes away lots of jobs, though.
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LinkPizza posted...

Yellow posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

99.9% of all accidents are caused by human error

In the future, the people that don't use self-driving cars will be seen as archaic stupid and reckless.

The media will either demonize them or praise them, depending on what makes them more money.

Mark my words.

By the time self-driving cars become the norm, they problem won't make manual cars anymore. Except for maybe racing. But not for regular sell. That also takes away lots of jobs, though.

Takes away a lot of jobs? People will still buy cars, just because cars are self driving doesn't take away the reason why someone would buy a car.
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The fact that there's so much money in self-driving cars is probably going to tell us how this will go down. Less jobs, more car sales, more money for corporations all around.

So who isn't making as much money? Those guys will be the "manual driving freedom" guys. Maybe people that make money off car crashes. The media will absolutely smear manual drivers, though.

Monopoman posted...

Takes away a lot of jobs? People will still buy cars, just because cars are self driving doesn't take away the reason why someone would buy a car.

Truckers, cabs, Uber, whoever else drives for a living.
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Monopoman posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Yellow posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

99.9% of all accidents are caused by human error

In the future, the people that don't use self-driving cars will be seen as archaic stupid and reckless.

The media will either demonize them or praise them, depending on what makes them more money.

Mark my words.

By the time self-driving cars become the norm, they problem won't make manual cars anymore. Except for maybe racing. But not for regular sell. That also takes away lots of jobs, though.

Takes away a lot of jobs? People will still buy cars, just because cars are self driving doesn't take away the reason why someone would buy a car.

Once they become the norm, they'll probably start using self-driving cars for certain jobs. Jobs that involve driving. Like driving school buses, regular bus, para-transit buses, cab, trucks, food delivery, regular delivery, etc... Basically, most driving jobs can be done by the car alone. And someone to watch over the cars to make sure things run smoothly. Possibly. Not a 100% certainty, though. Maybe some of those will have a person to help. Like buses when they pick up a wheelchair bound person. But that may be it. Just saying. Some jobs may be lost...

Also, some farming has people that just drive different vehicles, some construction crews have some who just drives a lot, street cleaners, & snow plow drivers.

Even on base, I drove the forklift and crane a lot because I was one of the few who could. It can also make it so that it's harder for people to stay up to date on training. For things like forklift and crane...
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J_Dawg983 posted...

Ive been dissapointed with technology waaay too much to be in a high speed vehicle that used ai to control it.

Ever been in a plane?

You know the pilot flying the plane is pretty handsoff compared to early days.

Also tons of government stuff flies completely unmanned

Yellow posted...

Less jobs,

Yellow posted...

Truckers, cabs, Uber, whoever else drives for a living.

Truckers would probably still have jobs since companies would need somebody to keep the cargo secure and to oversee the loading and offloading processes. The job may change, but it's unlikely to vanish.
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OmegaTomHank posted...

J_Dawg983 posted...

Ive been dissapointed with technology waaay too much to be in a high speed vehicle that used ai to control it.

Ever been in a plane?

You know the pilot flying the plane is pretty handsoff compared to early days.

Also tons of government stuff flies completely unmanned

Yeah. But he's saying being in one. Planes are handoffs, with a pilot in case stuff happens, still. And the unmanned stuff would be unmanned, meaning he wouldn't be in it. Also, I think they still control those from base. So, it's still controlled by man. I'm saying this because he's saying he wouldn't want to be in a vehicle controlled by AI. That's all.
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Im pretty sure all self driving cars currently in production have some sort of manual override system

I like the idea of them, especially if most of society adopts them, but I'd be concerned about what companies control the knowledge of where I am or if there's not a mandatory override in all vehicles.

I don't trust the current self-driving cars but I'm willing to bet in 10-20 years they'll be a lot more common and more well done.
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It hasn't proven itself over the time it's had. Until it does, I don't trust it.

I'm all for it. I wouldn't mind at all going on a road trip and dozing when whenever I start getting tired.

MannerSaurus posted...

but there are certain situations where computer failure would lead to extremely deadly accidents. A human knows not to drive a car off of a bridge, or not to change lanes if you can physically see another car (provided they aren't in a blind spot). But what if the sensors fail, and give bad feedback?

But would a human that fell asleep or is completely plastered know not to drive off a bridge? As for the rest of those issues, if the sensor on one car fails, the sensors on all the surroundings cars that have not failed would sense the bad car and would react appropriately.

The impression I get is that if it doesn't work 100% perfectly 100% of the time, it's not worth implementing. It also seems like the people who bring up the "Well, what if yours glitches?" ignore that all the other vehicles would adjust to yours, or that one vehicle's malfunction would somehow cause all the others around it to suddenly not work, too.
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Blaqthourne posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

but there are certain situations where computer failure would lead to extremely deadly accidents. A human knows not to drive a car off of a bridge, or not to change lanes if you can physically see another car (provided they aren't in a blind spot). But what if the sensors fail, and give bad feedback?

But would a human that fell asleep or is completely plastered know not to drive off a bridge? As for the rest of those issues, if the sensor on one car fails, the sensors on all the surroundings cars that have not failed would sense the bad car and would react appropriately.

The impression I get is that if it doesn't work 100% perfectly 100% of the time, it's not worth implementing. It also seems like the people who bring up the "Well, what if yours glitches?" ignore that all the other vehicles would adjust to yours, or that one vehicle's malfunction would somehow cause all the others around it to suddenly not work, too.

Absolutely. Once again, my only real concern is outside interference from hackers. In every other regard, it'll be superior to the system we have now whether it's safety, convenience, or even overall efficiency.
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Zeus posted...

Blaqthourne posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

but there are certain situations where computer failure would lead to extremely deadly accidents. A human knows not to drive a car off of a bridge, or not to change lanes if you can physically see another car (provided they aren't in a blind spot). But what if the sensors fail, and give bad feedback?

But would a human that fell asleep or is completely plastered know not to drive off a bridge? As for the rest of those issues, if the sensor on one car fails, the sensors on all the surroundings cars that have not failed would sense the bad car and would react appropriately.

The impression I get is that if it doesn't work 100% perfectly 100% of the time, it's not worth implementing. It also seems like the people who bring up the "Well, what if yours glitches?" ignore that all the other vehicles would adjust to yours, or that one vehicle's malfunction would somehow cause all the others around it to suddenly not work, too.

Absolutely. Once again, my only real concern is outside interference from hackers. In every other regard, it'll be superior to the system we have now whether it's safety, convenience, or even overall efficiency.

If people could hack the car, that would be pretty bad...
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JanwayDaahl posted...

I like the idea of them, especially if most of society adopts them, but I'd be concerned about what companies control the knowledge of where I am or if there's not a mandatory override in all vehicles.

I don't trust the current self-driving cars but I'm willing to bet in 10-20 years they'll be a lot more common and more well done.

If you look at the Youtube video I posted earlier in the thread, that car is pretty damn impressive it easily handles anything that a normal human would do in that circumstance and I think the only way it would "malfunction" is dealing with something out of nowhere like some guy swerves into it or something like that but these are the type of scenarios even a normal human has trouble reacting too in time.

Once the majority of vehicles on the road were self driving though the safety would go up a lot since the only problematic cars would be random ones with a driver in a bad situation, and malfunctioning self driving cars.
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You can already hack cars.

Remotely.
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Yellow posted...

You can already hack cars.

Remotely.

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Fantastic idea, one was featured in a sequel to one of my films, ok?
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Monopoman posted...

I think the only way it would "malfunction" is dealing with something out of nowhere like some guy swerves into it or something like that

But if all vehicles are autonomous, that scenario likely wouldn't even happen. If, say, a tire blows out, humans likely overreact causing them to swerve, while an autonomous vehicle wouldn't overreact.
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Mead posted...

Yellow posted...

You can already hack cars.

Remotely.

Yes just like that.

It's all a computer.
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Monopoman posted...

and I think the only way it would "malfunction" is dealing with something out of nowhere like some guy swerves into it or something like that but these are the type of scenarios even a normal human has trouble reacting too in time.

That is extremely short sighted and dangerous. You don't have to agree with me on the subject in general, but technology can, does, and will always fail. Computers crash. Sensors make errors. Cell phones drop calls. Airplanes lose GPS or have engines go out mid flight. Internet services crash. Cities get electric black outs. Guns jam. Software bugs. It's just a part of life. I imagine the failure rate will be extremely low, but technology DOES fail.
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Zeus posted...

...still gotta drive to get the train which, by the way, usually doesn't take you out anywhere close to your destination so you're driving again.

If you live in a city where you could reasonably afford an automated car, you also live within walking distance of a train station, in fact I travelled to work outside of London on foot and train with no issue. Your peasanty hick town needs more stations.

Zeus posted...

...he says while ignoring how many major traffic jams result from accidents.

Major traffic jams are a meager part of congestion, in fact the main road outside my house dropped from 30 to 20 a few years ago for "safety" and all its done is cause hours of heavy traffic every single day. In fact, the slower speed made people impatient and actually caused more crashes. Roads are overloaded with cars, people need to be shifted off the roads.
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Have you seen how terrible most drivers are? Or how road-raged people can get? Or how if you look at a car next to you while driving like 9 times out of 10 the driver will be fiddling with their cellphone? Also how many accidents and deaths are caused by drunk drivers?

As scary as it may seem, it is my opinion that self-driving cars would have to be an improvement.

Also, forgive me if these points were already made I dont have time to read through the whole thread right now.
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The sooner, the better. People suck fucking ass at driving.
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SSJCAT posted...

if you look at a car next to you while driving like 9 times out of 10 the driver will be fiddling with their cellphone?

Sounds like an America thing.

SSJCAT posted...

Also how many accidents and deaths are caused by drunk drivers?

If it's causing a major issue then I refer to my previous statement.

Encouraging conscientious behaviour is far preferrable to denying people's freedom.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Encouraging conscientious behaviour is far preferrable to denying people's freedom.

Yep. I hate to come off as an "internet tough guy" or "social media tough guy", but I will never be told it is illegal to drive my own cars in this country. I will shift, throttle, brake, and steer myself until God reunites me with my wife. I feel very strongly about this, like to the level of from my cold dead fingers, mother fucker.
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Please dont take this the wrong way because Im not trying to be a dick, but why are you so against a technology that will save lives and prevent tragic auto accidents when you yourself were a victim of one? I understand the whole my freedoms thing, but this is about the prevention of other people not having to go through what you are now dealing with. Im not saying youre a bad driver, but there are enough out there where we should and eventually will remove the human component from behind the steering wheel.

yes
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GameLord113 posted...

Please dont take this the wrong way because Im not trying to be a dick, but why are you so against a technology that will save lives and prevent tragic auto accidents when you yourself were a victim of one? I understand the whole my freedoms thing, but this is about the prevention of other people not having to go through what you are now dealing with. Im not saying youre a bad driver, but there are enough out there where we should and eventually will remove the human component from behind the steering wheel.

@GameLord113 I understand your point, but it is a pretty large intrusion on freedom. I definitely understand there are risks outside of your control (a tire could blow, or even just what literally happened to me and my wife: someone else lost control and hit us head on before we could do anything.) But driving has been a part of my life since I was a little boy. My father raced and worked on cars, and naturally me and my brother got into it. If my wife had been shot instead of us being in a car wreck, I would still carry a weapon and wouldn't want the banning of firearms. I might be looking up Level 3 armor prices, but I wouldn't want all guns banned or anything like that just because it hurt my wife. I know that what (hypothetically) happened was someone evil and lost got a hold of a weapon and took her life. It wasn't the gun that killed her. (Hypothetically.) I'm not against self-driving cars if they can save lives, as long as it isn't mandatory. I don't wish this absolute horror my soul is facing on anyone, and anything that can help save anyone else from suffering like I do... it could be a great thing. But we can't put the whole world in a bubble, or else what is the point of living? And of course, I'm still nervous about computer failures and things like that.

Thanks for your kind but thought provoking reply. I'm enjoying this discussion.
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MannerSaurus posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Encouraging conscientious behaviour is far preferrable to denying people's freedom.

Yep. I hate to come off as an "internet tough guy" or "social media tough guy", but I will never be told it is illegal to drive my own cars in this country. I will shift, throttle, brake, and steer myself until God reunites me with my wife. I feel very strongly about this, like to the level of from my cold dead fingers, mother fucker.

Manual transmission fanboy, huh?

Questionmarktarius posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Encouraging conscientious behaviour is far preferrable to denying people's freedom.

Yep. I hate to come off as an "internet tough guy" or "social media tough guy", but I will never be told it is illegal to drive my own cars in this country. I will shift, throttle, brake, and steer myself until God reunites me with my wife. I feel very strongly about this, like to the level of from my cold dead fingers, mother fucker.

Manual transmission fanboy, huh?

Yes sir, although I do own some automatic cars, too. Just not a fan of the computer controlling shifting because it doesn't always do what you want it to (such as dropping gear into a power band when you want to.) The stock factory tunes are always really conservative (for the sake of the average consumer), and that includes shift points in the transmission. Autos are really coming out on top in modern cars for drag racing, though. The advantages that manual had over auto in speed are disappearing as automatic transmissions become lighter, more aggressive gearing, and more accurate feedback for shift points etc.

Still, for the driving experience, I like to row my own gears. It's part of the the whole equation, I feel like.
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