Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 428: 25 Years of RAW, Unmitigated Malfeasance

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davidponte posted...

Based on my pre-approved list, I'm the best wrestler in the world.

If you're pre approved list isn't WWE, NWA/WCW, AWA, and situationally ECW and TNA/Impact Wrestling you need a more correct Pre approved list
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I know jakyl at least knows daizee and portia's work.

Pepsi I guess is limited to people who did pwg and roh.

I guess that makes timjab the default resident women's wrestling expert.
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I thought I remembered Pepsi being a fairly regular SHIMMER viewer.

Speaking of Daizee, didn't she recently come out of retirement or did I make that up?
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natsuki taiyo
kairi hojo
io shirai
mayu iwatani
yoshiko

who's a fanboy not me
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StealThisSheen posted...

del Rey should totally count

And if we're counting having been in TNA, Cheerleader Melissa

Man, that was super easy, even with the dumb restrictions.

Absolutely not counting CM.....

The only reason debating Kong is because when she was doing it in TNA they were outdrawing the main event. The only other people who were famous for TNA not WWE allowed would be the Beautiful People... who also outdrew the MEs. I look forward to you trying to explain Velvet being a better wrestler than Sasha...
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Tom thosr will never be your waifus.

All are lesbians or fucking NOSAWA.
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EmDubyaSee posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

del Rey should totally count

And if we're counting having been in TNA, Cheerleader Melissa

Man, that was super easy, even with the dumb restrictions.

Absolutely not counting CM.....

The only reason debating Kong is because when she was doing it in TNA they were outdrawing the main event. The only other people who were famous for TNA not WWE allowed would be the Beautiful People... who also outdrew the MEs. I look forward to you trying to explain Velvet being a better wrestler than Sasha...

So, basically, Sasha says she's the best in the world

And you say she's top 5 in America

But you keep coming up with reasons to exclude people

lol

You lost, bud. Sorry.
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This is actually an interesting exercise so let's ignore MWC for now and see if we can't come up with a legitimate top 5 American born women's wrestlers.

SDR and Melissa obviously have to be in there. Where do we go after that?

Daizee Haze
MsChif
Mercedes Martinez
Kimber Lee depending on where you come out on her

I'm missing plenty of obvious ones off the top of my head, I'm sure.

Edit: Portia is Canadian, I forgot.
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voltch posted...

Tom thosr will never be your waifus.

they are closer than a buncha anime girls!!
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isn't marrying anime girls a thing now?
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Kayfabe better than Sasha, current WWE only:

Asuka
Charlotte
Alexa Bliss
Mickie (jobber status now but accomplishments are superior)
Natalya (same)

Actually better than Sasha, current WWE only:

Asuka
Mickie
Becky Lynch
Natalya
Bayley

Very easy to name 5 I didn't need legends, Indies, TNA, Japan, or anything else.
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Lopen posted...

Kayfabe better than Sasha, current WWE only:

Asuka
Charlotte
Alexa Bliss
Mickie (jobber status now but accomplishments are superior)
Natalya (same)

Actually better than Sasha, current WWE only:

Asuka
Mickie
Becky Lynch
Natalya
Bayley

Very easy to name 5 I didn't need legends, Indies, TNA, Japan, or anything else.

It ain't 2009....

Sasha is far better than both Natalya and Mickie substantially comparing today to today.

ChampionCloud posted...

Lopen posted...

Kayfabe better than Sasha, current WWE only:

Asuka
Charlotte
Alexa Bliss
Mickie (jobber status now but accomplishments are superior)
Natalya (same)

Actually better than Sasha, current WWE only:

Asuka
Mickie
Becky Lynch
Natalya
Bayley

Very easy to name 5 I didn't need legends, Indies, TNA, Japan, or anything else.

It ain't 2009....

Sasha is far better than both Natalya and Mickie substantially comparing today to today.

While I definitely disagree, it doesn't matter. You said "in American history."
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If we're talking about purely skill in-ring (which is admittedly subjective, despite what MWC will say), I think you can make a strong case for the following:

Asuka
Kairi
Mickie
Natalya
Charlotte
Nikki Cross
Becky
Candace Wrestling
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StealThisSheen posted...

While I definitely disagree, it doesn't matter. You said "in American history."

Yeah, history is the kicker that MWC is denying. If you're talking peak skill in their own era, you could make the argument for everyone from Ivory to Becky and not necessarily be wrong.
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In fact, my subjective interpretation would personally be that Natalya is the best all-around wrestling talent on the roster.
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molly holly was better than sasha comparing peaks.

she was just in the wrong era
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StealThisSheen posted...

ChampionCloud posted...

Lopen posted...

Kayfabe better than Sasha, current WWE only:

Asuka
Charlotte
Alexa Bliss
Mickie (jobber status now but accomplishments are superior)
Natalya (same)

Actually better than Sasha, current WWE only:

Asuka
Mickie
Becky Lynch
Natalya
Bayley

Very easy to name 5 I didn't need legends, Indies, TNA, Japan, or anything else.

It ain't 2009....

Sasha is far better than both Natalya and Mickie substantially comparing today to today.

While I definitely disagree, it doesn't matter. You said "in American history."

I understand that. He's the one who said current WWE... not me.

FFDragon posted...

molly holly was better than sasha comparing peaks.

she was just in the wrong era

Molly is in fact one of the few I have above Sasha. She was amazing.

Mickie and Nattie are both still better than Sasha in the ring yeah. It's hard to realize as they don't often get time or relevancy but when they do they tend to have pretty great matches.
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Lopen posted...

Mickie and Nattie are both still better than Sasha in the ring yeah. It's hard to realize as they don't often get time or relevancy but when they do they tend to have pretty great matches.

Nattie was just given a 3 month run with the belt.... surely if she's so great must have had some outstanding matches as Champion... care to list them?
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Also, as we come to the 25th, can we all agree the end of Shelton vs Shawn in the Gold Rush tournament was the most astounding single moment of Raw?

(There have been better segments of course)
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I mean I can't name a great Sasha match in the entire past year so I'm not sure that's fair. The "women's revolution" is kinda over despite what WWE will tell you.

I know at least one of the Natalya/Charlotte matches was pretty good though. Lots of Naomi fights in that reign which is a lost cause unfortunately.
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Did the women's revolution ever really begin, though?
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I thought Sasha and Charlotte had some legitimately good matches the first year they were hyping that. They fought each other too much and too many title changes and killed it but some of the early ones were good. Also SD had a pretty competently booked women's division the first year of SD Live. Mickie had some good matches with Becky when she first arrived on the roster (and her match with Asuka on NXT before that was great too even though that doesn't quite count)

Since then they've murdered Bayley's and Mickie's characters (and Charlotte's and Becky's to lesser extents) and haven't written women's storylines that weren't "let's do a four way for a number one contendership" so it's dead, but there was a point where it felt like there was a bright future at least
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Lopen posted...

I thought Sasha and Charlotte had some legitimately good matches the first year they were hyping that. They fought each other too much and too many title changes and killed it but some of the early ones were good. Also SD had a pretty competently booked women's division the first year of SD Live. Mickie had some good matches with Becky when she first arrived on the roster (and her match with Asuka on NXT before that was great too even though that doesn't quite count)

Since then they've murdered Bayley's and Mickie's characters (and Charlotte's and Becky's to lesser extents) and haven't written women's storylines that weren't "let's do a four way for a number one contendership" so it's dead, but there was a point where it felt like there was a bright future at least

Since you're just touching on it but not outright saying it.... I will

Fuck Alexa. Fucking cancer.
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Alexa was only cancerous to Bayley. Don't really blame Alexa for it either. Becky wasn't killed by her feud with Alexa that's in fact the last compelling thing she did. Same with Mickie.
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bliss 4 life
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ninkendo posted...

bliss 4 life

I'd say she's never gonna sleep with you.....but realistically she is a whore... you got a shot. Just get some power in WWE and you should easily be able to close the deal.
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Now now the only WWE talent that deserves to be called a whore is Triple H
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I like Bliss since she makes MWC so irrationally angry

lol sasha isn't champ, cry some more
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Actually, I'm wondering if Asuka's undefeated streak will end in the MMC. Or if they'll acknowledge it if they do.
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Asuka carrying Miz to victory while Miz does basically nothing is kinda perfect for both of them so I doubt it
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StealThisSheen posted...

I like Bliss since she makes MWC so irrationally angry

lol sasha isn't champ, cry some more

I don't care that Sasha isn't Champ.

I care that the whore is. There are plenty of other women besides Sasha that would deserve it before the useless untalented (in ring) bint....
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I don't keep up with WWE gossip because that's, like, third degree don't-give-a-damn territory for me; is there actual noise in regards to Bliss being a whore or is MWC just #MadOnTheInternet about it?
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Wwe killed bayley :( alexa was the only saving grace for the this is your life segment with the bull they were given
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mwc just mad
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NBIceman posted...

I don't keep up with WWE gossip because that's, like, third degree don't-give-a-damn territory for me; is there actual noise in regards to Bliss being a whore or is MWC just #MadOnTheInternet about it?

You know how MWC would make up stuff about Cena and LeBron James to say what "horrible people" they were

It's that

There's some kind of stupid feud between Sasha fans and Bliss fans on PWB, and since MWC is an insufferable manchild, he has meltdowns and tells people they should die over it alot and then makes stuff up.
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Can I just think that neither of them are anything special?
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TheRock1525 posted...

Can I just think that neither of them are anything special?

Yes, you could be more like me.

The best American female wrestler is Rosemary. Accept it!
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Best American female wrestler is Becky Lynch.
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And yes I realize the irony of that statement.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Can I just think that neither of them are anything special?

No because according to MWC either you love Sasha or hate womens wrestling

But seriously yes neither are that great
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Can I hate Sasha's forehead but be indifferent to Sasha?
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Rosemary's growth as a wrestler has been incredible to me. I remember seeing her on an indy show almost a decade ago wrestling as PJ Tyler. Bad worker, bad "rocker girl" gimmick, probably didn't weight 100lbs soaking wet. Then she put on a bunch of mass, became Courtney Rush, and started getting booked in promotions that people had actually heard of even though she still wasn't very good and had an even blander gimmick.

Now she's this crazy demon girl or whatever and all the Impact fans I talk to say she's the best thing in the company. I've managed to be right about the potential a lot of wrestlers have had before they ever made it big, but I would've never thought she was capable of what she's accomplished.
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Nia Jax probably had more entertaining matches than Sasha or Alexa the past year tbqh.

She's no good but the basic story of trying to chop down a monster is better than your bog standard WWE woman's match these days.

And if I actually watched Impact I'm sure I'd be in the Rosemary fanclub too.
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Honestly the only thing I like Bliss more than Sasha for is that she's a better talker. Neither of them make me want to tune in specifically for a match. I'm just more indifferent to Bliss whereas I'm just way over Sasha.
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NBIceman posted...

Rosemary's growth as a wrestler has been incredible to me. I remember seeing her on an indy show almost a decade ago wrestling as PJ Tyler. Bad worker, bad "rocker girl" gimmick, probably didn't weight 100lbs soaking wet. Then she put on a bunch of mass, became Courtney Rush, and started getting booked in promotions that people had actually heard of even though she still wasn't very good and had an even blander gimmick.

Now she's this crazy demon girl or whatever and all the Impact fans I talk to say she's the best thing in the company. I've managed to be right about the potential a lot of wrestlers have had before they ever made it big, but I would've never thought she was capable of what she's accomplished.

I think the Hardys really helped her develop her personality and gimmick well, and she's become a pretty damn talented wrestler.
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StealThisSheen posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Can I just think that neither of them are anything special?

No because according to MWC either you love Sasha or hate womens wrestling

But seriously yes neither are that great

And yet I got all this shit for saying Bliss wasn't any good before.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

NBIceman posted...

Rosemary's growth as a wrestler has been incredible to me. I remember seeing her on an indy show almost a decade ago wrestling as PJ Tyler. Bad worker, bad "rocker girl" gimmick, probably didn't weight 100lbs soaking wet. Then she put on a bunch of mass, became Courtney Rush, and started getting booked in promotions that people had actually heard of even though she still wasn't very good and had an even blander gimmick.

Now she's this crazy demon girl or whatever and all the Impact fans I talk to say she's the best thing in the company. I've managed to be right about the potential a lot of wrestlers have had before they ever made it big, but I would've never thought she was capable of what she's accomplished.

I think the Hardys really helped her develop her personality and gimmick well, and she's become a pretty damn talented wrestler.

Got any good match recs?
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