Current Events > Maybe ya'll should stop voting Republican or Democrat for everything

(+) Yeah! (+)

Start getting some independent candidates in there.
---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAT_BuJAI70
---

Itd be nice. The two-party system and the us-vs.-them mentality that it fosters is toxic, and extreme partisanship looks like its only going to get worse
---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01A6-qQjqI8

But seriously a lot of our issues would be solved if we even elected some of the shittiest candidates as long as they were independent. It would get other candidates involved and it would highlight the fragility of the monopoly Democrats and Republicans have on the political economy.
---

The way the government is set up is that it's a two party system and no one else will ever get any real power without a revolution. So until that happens I will continue to vote straight Democrat because I refuse to throw away my vote on a third party with 0 chance of winning.
---

Genocet_10-325 posted...

The way the government is set up is that it's a two party system and no one else will ever get any real power without a revolution. So until that happens I will continue to vote straight Democrat because I refuse to throw away my vote on a third party with 0 chance of winning.

No but this is wrong man, so wrong. Get your friends and family to vote for an independent candidate. Get your community to vote. Don't wait until the election cycle's started and they've already started campaigning. Start getting people interested in this prospect today
---

b-but if we all vote for a third party it's a wasted vote!
---

Fishy posted...

b-but if we all vote for a third party it's a wasted vote!

that sounds unamerican af
---

Genocet_10-325 posted...

The way the government is set up is that it's a two party system and no one else will ever get any real power without a revolution. So until that happens I will continue to vote straight Democrat because I refuse to throw away my vote on a third party with 0 chance of winning.

-_________-

The problem is that each party caters to their respective fringes, forcing people to settle for the least hate-able candidate.

If I actually thought a third-party candidate stood a chance, I never would have voted for that idiot, Trump...
---

It's supposed to be a government of the people for the people but it's just a government of two political parties that are driven by money, not the welfare of the country.

It's sad that people buy into this "I have to vote red or blue this year" mentality. That is not what the system should be about and we have a pretty easy way to right that wrong.
---

0TiamaT0 posted...

The problem is that each party caters to their respective fringes, forcing people to settle for the least hate-able candidate.

If I actually thought a third-party candidate stood a chance, I never would have voted for that idiot, Trump...

So next time vote for the fringe candidate whose sole platform is establishing free healthcare for our pets. Get your friends and family to do it, too.
---

As soon as the other parties start fielding serious candidates. Jill "anti-vaxxer" Stein and Gary "I'm a living meme" Johnson did not present me with a viable alternative to the other parties' candidates.
---

What do you think Trump and Bernie were?
---

s0nicfan posted...

As soon as the other parties start fielding serious candidates. Jill "anti-vaxxer" Stein and Gary "I'm a living meme" Johnson did not present me with a viable alternative to the other parties' candidates.

Trump and Clinton were not viable candidates, either. They were heavily marketed to you like the "Chevy: Real People" advertisements and you bought it all up. It didn't matter if you voted for Trump or Clinton, you were buyin' a Chevy regardless, even if you thought you were buying a Porsche.
---

Hexenherz posted...

s0nicfan posted...

As soon as the other parties start fielding serious candidates. Jill "anti-vaxxer" Stein and Gary "I'm a living meme" Johnson did not present me with a viable alternative to the other parties' candidates.

Trump and Clinton were not viable candidates, either. They were heavily marketed to you like the "Chevy: Real People" advertisements and you bought it all up. It didn't matter if you voted for Trump or Clinton, you were buyin' a Chevy regardless, even if you thought you were buying a Porsche.

You know what you're getting with a Chevy, though. Last election was 2 Chevys versus 2 home-built cars that aren't street legal and you're not allowed to see the engine before the purchase, but they both make a funny sound and you're pretty sure something is fundamentally wrong with them.
---

Google "First Past the Post". You can't fight human nature.
---

On_The_Edge posted...

What do you think Trump and Bernie were?

Sanders shot himself in the foot by trying to run on the Democratic ticket.

The fact that the Republican party entertained the concept of Trump running as their representative and then apparently lost all control and are stuck with him just goes serve as further proof at how inept this party is.
---

s0nicfan posted...

As soon as the other parties start fielding serious candidates. Jill "anti-vaxxer" Stein and Gary "I'm a living meme" Johnson did not present me with a viable alternative to the other parties' candidates.

That's just as stupid as saying it's a wasted vote. You vote for the party, not necessarily for the candidate.

Johnson and Stein had no chance of winning the election, but Johnson at least had a chance to hit 5% of the popular vote, which would have given the Libertarian party $10 million for the 2020 campaign.

Hexenherz posted...

Sanders shot himself in the foot by trying to run on the Democratic ticket.

He would have gotten 0 traction as an independent candidate, I think.
---

Bernie would have had 0% can of winning if he actually ran as an independent though

Even if they allowed independent presidential candidates into the debates again, that wouldn't do anything because there are too many people who vote for Republican or Democrat no matter what
---

Godnorgosh posted...

Fishy posted...

b-but if we all vote for a third party it's a wasted vote!

Ah, the conventional "wisdom" of party-line voters. Right up there with, "If you don't vote for Clinton you're voting for Trump! (But not vice versa, somehow.)"

You show em man. Just point out all of those other 3rd party candidates that have run successful campaigns in various aspects of government and put those party line voters to shame for their misconception.
---

This topic isn't even good trolling.
---

Vertania posted...

s0nicfan posted...

As soon as the other parties start fielding serious candidates. Jill "anti-vaxxer" Stein and Gary "I'm a living meme" Johnson did not present me with a viable alternative to the other parties' candidates.

That's just as stupid as saying it's a wasted vote. You vote for the party, not necessarily for the candidate.

Johnson and Stein had no chance of winning the election, but Johnson at least had a chance to hit 5% of the popular vote, which would have given the Libertarian party $10 million for the 2020 campaign.

The libertarian party shouldn't be talking government money for a campaign anyway. That's like antithesis to their actual platform.
---

Hexenherz posted...

Genocet_10-325 posted...

The way the government is set up is that it's a two party system and no one else will ever get any real power without a revolution. So until that happens I will continue to vote straight Democrat because I refuse to throw away my vote on a third party with 0 chance of winning.

No but this is wrong man, so wrong. Get your friends and family to vote for an independent candidate. Get your community to vote. Don't wait until the election cycle's started and they've already started campaigning. Start getting people interested in this prospect today

let's start by getting conservatives to do that

(they won't)

s0nicfan posted...

As soon as the other parties start fielding serious candidates. Jill "anti-vaxxer" Stein and Gary "I'm a living meme" Johnson did not present me with a viable alternative to the other parties' candidates.

agreed.
---

Vertania posted...

s0nicfan posted...

As soon as the other parties start fielding serious candidates. Jill "anti-vaxxer" Stein and Gary "I'm a living meme" Johnson did not present me with a viable alternative to the other parties' candidates.

That's just as stupid as saying it's a wasted vote. You vote for the party, not necessarily for the candidate.

Johnson and Stein had no chance of winning the election, but Johnson at least had a chance to hit 5% of the popular vote, which would have given the Libertarian party $10 million for the 2020 campaign.

Voting for the party and not for the candidate is exactly why we are in this mess to begin with.
---

Jiek_Fafn posted...

Voting for the party and not for the candidate is exactly why we are in this mess to begin with.

I think it's perfectly reasonable when the candidate cannot win.
---

s0nicfan posted...

The libertarian party shouldn't be talking government money for a campaign anyway. That's like antithesis to their actual platform.

Not really. Their platform isn't "government should stop absolutely all spending," it's about reducing wasteful spending. Campaign funding is, unfortunately, a necessary part of running for office.

Vertania posted...

Campaign funding is, unfortunately, a necessary part of running for office.

perhaps it shouldn't be
---

Jiek_Fafn posted...

Voting for the party and not for the candidate is exactly why we are in this mess to begin with.

...because it's always the same two parties.

Darkman124 posted...

Vertania posted...

Campaign funding is, unfortunately, a necessary part of running for office.

perhaps it shouldn't be

Campaign staffers gotta eat.
---

My parents are still upset I voted 3rd party yet at the same time say we should have more candidates to vote for lol.
---

Darkman124 posted...

perhaps it shouldn't be

Yeah, good luck changing that. Especially when the two major parties are actively taking measures to keep it that way.

Darkman124 posted...

Vertania posted...

Campaign funding is, unfortunately, a necessary part of running for office.

perhaps it shouldn't be

That's the problem with campaign finance reform and first past the post.

We have to depend on the two parties dismantling their own power and funding.
---

Vertania posted...

Yeah, good luck changing that. Especially when the two major parties are actively taking measures to keep it that way.

Webmaster4531 posted...

We have to depend on the two parties dismantling their own power and funding.

direct democracy measures can be put in place to force the issue against their will

ofc, it sometimes results in this

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/02/politics/south-dakota-corruption-bill-republican-repeal/index.html

South Dakota Republicans on Thursday repealed a historic anti-corruption law approved by voters in a statewide referendum on Election Day.

The measure, which passed with more than 51% backing in November, would have created an independent ethics commission, limited lobbyist gifts to lawmakers, banned officials from joining lobbying firms for two years after leaving office and created so-called "Democracy vouchers" for registered voters to steer toward their preferred candidates.
But state GOP lawmakers said they didn't think voters knew what they were doing.
Gov. Dennis Daugaard, a Republican, signed the repeal bill on Thursday night. In a budget address delivered after the November referendum, he claimed the public had been "hoodwinked by scam artists who grossly misrepresented these proposed measures."
Republican legislators pushed the bill using an "emergency" clause that allows for the reversal to take effect immediately and now prevents voters from initiating a new referendum campaign in response.

---

Godnorgosh posted...

I'm guessing he means that campaigns shouldn't be funded by private entities such that obvious conflicts of interest come into play. In other words, what we call the political process should be made entirely public, relying on the commons for its maintenance.

that is definitely one solution. the counter-argument is that it's "not fair" to third parties, which I find hilarious given the existing structural biases against them.
---

BLAKUboy posted...

This topic isn't even good trolling.

It's not trolling and it is sad that you have such little faith in the idea that maybe we should stop "voting for the lesser of two evils" every time.
---

Hexenherz posted...

BLAKUboy posted...

This topic isn't even good trolling.

It's not trolling and it is sad that you have such little faith in the idea that maybe we should stop "voting for the lesser of two evils" every time.

It is trolling. I bet you know what "First Past the Post" is.
---

The party system as a whole needs to be done away with. Make your allies and bring people to your cause by debate and dealing, not by what letter goes after your name on TV.
---

Webmaster4531 posted...

Hexenherz posted...

BLAKUboy posted...

This topic isn't even good trolling.

It's not trolling and it is sad that you have such little faith in the idea that maybe we should stop "voting for the lesser of two evils" every time.

It is trolling. I bet you know what "First Past the Post" is.

Sorry but if a candidate gets enough votes it literally won't matter what sort of system is in place that you think is going to prevent that candidate from assuming office. And I'm not talking about just presidential candidates.
---

Hexenherz posted...

Webmaster4531 posted...

Hexenherz posted...

BLAKUboy posted...

This topic isn't even good trolling.

It's not trolling and it is sad that you have such little faith in the idea that maybe we should stop "voting for the lesser of two evils" every time.

It is trolling. I bet you know what "First Past the Post" is.

Sorry but if a candidate gets enough votes it literally won't matter what sort of system is in place that you think is going to prevent that candidate from assuming office. And I'm not talking about just presidential candidates.

It's been a two party race for 100+ years. How much proof do you need troll?
---

I'm not trolling rofl and as I've repeated already, it's a real shame you think that. You're literally brainwashed into thinking there are two choices and it's because of that mentality we are where we are. Maybe if you could just open your eyes a little bit we could break free but it's not gonna happen with a handful of people, it has to be a major national movement.
---

Hexenherz posted...

You're literally brainwashed

You are naive. It took an issue of slavery just to have the Whigs become Republicans.
---

Call me naive, call me an idealist, perhaps an optimist and someone who cares too much, but don't call me a troll.
---

Hexenherz posted...

perhaps an optimist

Why is that a step too far? You're advocating fighting human nature.
---