Current Events > Trump imposes 30% tariffs on solar panels.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mal_Fet posted...

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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It's consistent with what he said about keeping businesses in America
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Gotta keep up that Captain Planet Villain level of bullshit.
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WaffIeElite posted...

Gotta keep up that Captain Planet Villain level of bullshit.

Well he already was a TMNT villain

http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Donald_J._Lofty
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The solar petition was filed by Suniva Inc. and SolarWorld Americas Inc., two embattled solar panel makers with operations in the U.S. that have filed for bankruptcy protection.

The actions drew criticism from free-market economists warning of new costs to consumers and the dangers of trade wars. But it drew praise from some Democrats normally critical of the president, showing the potential of the new Trump trade policy to scramble the political landscape this year.

I applaud the administration for this strong relief, said Ohio Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown, who faces a tough re-election fight in a hard-hit manufacturing state that Mr. Trump carried in the 2016 election.

Some of Mr. Trumps fellow Republicans werent as sanguine. Heres something Republicans used to understand: Tariffs are taxes on families, Nebraska GOP Sen. Ben Sasse said in a statement.
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Maybe its a favor to Elon?
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Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

hypocritical fucks

several of you have said we should tax shit produced abroad and sold here

and you've said solar is the future and is incredibly important

i actually don't care about this at all because solar is such a tiny fraction of our energy grid

and i still maintain that solar is a huge part of the future and incredibly important. tariffs on imports won't change that. if anything it will give domestic solar a chance against cheap imports.

solar is growing at a rapid pace globally, and in america. a tiny fraction of the huge grid we have, but poised to skyrocket
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If we're going to invest in domestic solar energy companies like Solyndra, it wouldn't make sense to promote free trade for solar panels.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVYUPmjJ9bU
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

tariffs on imports won't change that. if anything it will give domestic solar a chance against cheap imports.

you do realize that domestic solar is heavily reliant on component imports and was against this, right?

or that the majority of solar jobs in the US relate to installation, and not component production? they're mostly installing canadian solar panels, which are made in china. so this directly jacks up the cost of most US-based solar companies because they're installing product not made here.

i did a lot of research on solar before going with SPWR for my system. before MD's SREC program took a dump I concluded it would surpass CS in value after 7 years. with the dump taken, it will never surpass it, but I am hopeful MD will revitalize the program at some point; it's not like solar is a big part of our grid yet.
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frozenshock posted...

And people say republicans are capitalists? That's not capitalism at all

This.

On the upside, maybe they'll get manufactured in America now. I doubt it, though, cuz nobody would buy a solar panel that expensive.
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US manufactured panels already have a market. But it's not an exceptionally healthy one. SPWR has not performed well over time

when i bought, i could get CS installed for 3.25/W or SPWR installed for 3.75/W. As most of the install cost is actually not related to the panel, this would bring the two closer to parity, although not quite even.

But my install was 2.5 years ago and things are a bit cheaper now. Not a ton cheaper, mind you.
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This topic is pretty embarrassing

tariffs on imported solar panels

TC forgot to leave this part out of the topic title. Pretty disingenuous at best.

Flopic
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Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

hypocritical fucks

several of you have said we should tax shit produced abroad and sold here

and you've said solar is the future and is incredibly important

i actually don't care about this at all because solar is such a tiny fraction of our energy grid

I've never seen anyone on ce support tariffs anyway
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HypnoCoosh posted...

tariffs on imported solar panels

TC forgot to leave this part out of the topic title. Pretty disingenuous at best.

Flopic

Where else would tariffs be?
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Blah blah blah antidumping penalties blah. As someone who used to work for one of the manufacturers of the crystalline silicon used in the panels, I can tell you China is cheating. They are making those panels so cheaply by destroying their environment in the process. We shouldnt be allowing them to destroy their environment by exploiting our marketplace. I dont usually favor domestic protectionism, but as a lead process engineer, I had very intricate details of exactly what chemicals were involved in the Si manufacturing. I fear for the future health of those living near the plants.
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You can have a tariff on exports, I'm just not sure I've seen one except maybe as part of a multilateral trade agreement? They're much less common for obvious reasons
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shockthemonkey posted...

Funkydog posted...

HypnoCoosh posted...

tariffs on imported solar panels

TC forgot to leave this part out of the topic title. Pretty disingenuous at best.

Flopic

Where else would tariffs be?

Its been really funny seeing which posters dont understand that tariffs are on imports.

Well, exports as well. But yeah, I think this tariff is pretty detrimental but many people do seem stuck on the basic principle of what a tariff actually is.
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shockthemonkey posted...

Funkydog posted...

HypnoCoosh posted...

tariffs on imported solar panels

TC forgot to leave this part out of the topic title. Pretty disingenuous at best.

Flopic

Where else would tariffs be?

Its been really funny seeing which posters dont understand that tariffs are on imports.

tariff
[terf]
NOUN
a tax or duty to be paid on a particular class of imports or exports.
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Mal_Fet posted...

You guys know solar panels generate more hazardous waste than nuclear does, right?

https://sciencing.com/toxic-chemicals-solar-panels-18393.html

Just go Mal. Away. Please.

Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

hypocritical fucks

several of you have said we should tax shit produced abroad and sold here

and you've said solar is the future and is incredibly important

i actually don't care about this at all because solar is such a tiny fraction of our energy grid

It's a large percent of new capacity built every year though. In 2016, 7.7 out of 27 gigawatts of new electrical power capacity added to the grid ( about 28.5%) was solar power. Wind was 8.7 gigawatts, so wind and solar combined made up close to 60% of new capacity.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=30112

So solar is becoming more and more important every year.
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total grid capacity: 1,064.1 Gigawatts(GW)

anyway i agree that this will rapidly tamp down the amount of solar rolled out

because almost all solar is made in china
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Darkman124 posted...

total grid capacity: 1,064.1 Gigawatts(GW)

anyway i agree that this will rapidly tamp down the amount of solar rolled out

because almost all solar is made in china

That's still significant though. 7.7 / 1,064.1 = ~0.7%

An increase in the amount of the grid that is solar by that figure is significant, especially since not that long ago the entirety of solar power on the grid was about 1%. Now we've added almost that much in a single year.
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lol Republicans
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The tariff is only on IMPORTED solar panels, meaning you should buy American. Trump wins again.
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Gentlemen, to evil!
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Kirby posted...

The tariff is only on IMPORTED solar panels, meaning you should buy American. Trump wins again.

American solar panels suck
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Kirby posted...

The tariff is only on IMPORTED solar panels

As oppose to those tariffs on domestic goods . . .
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youngfossil posted...

Kirby posted...

The tariff is only on IMPORTED solar panels, meaning you should buy American. Trump wins again.

American solar panels suck

they're actually significantly higher quality than chinese

so much so that they cost dramatically more

Sativa_Rose posted...

That's still significant though. 7.7 / 1,064.1 = ~0.7%

An increase in the amount of the grid that is solar by that figure is significant, especially since not that long ago the entirety of solar power on the grid was about 1%. Now we've added almost that much in a single year.

data seems fuzzy

i am gonna review this in kWh rather than GW production rate, which is a more meaningful variable. remember that solar wattage does not have a 1:1 ratio with actual energy production as it waxes/wanes throughout the day and drops to 0 at night

my rollout is a 8.28kW system and it produces about 10MWh/year
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youngfossil posted...

Kirby posted...

The tariff is only on IMPORTED solar panels, meaning you should buy American. Trump wins again.

American solar panels suck

Tesla sucks?
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Darkman124 posted...

data seems fuzzy

i am gonna review this in kWh rather than GW production rate, which is a more meaningful variable. remember that solar wattage does not have a 1:1 ratio with actual energy production as it waxes/wanes throughout the day and drops to 0 at night

my rollout is a 8.28kW system and it produces about 10MWh/year

Solar has something like a ~20% capacity factor, while that number gets closer to 90% for something like nuclear, if I remember correctly. So that 8.28kW system would be producing maybe 45 MWh/year if it had the capacity factor of nuclear. It would also be distributed more evenly while solar's daily energy production looks like a bell curve, starts and ends at zero but peaks midday.

In terms of watt-hours, it looks like the overall annual numbers for 2016 for both wind and solar combined were about 7%. So there's still a lot of room to grow, but when you look at how old retiring plants are being replaced with a lot of wind/solar it seems more optimistic.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/337831-wind-solar-produce-10-percent-of-us-electricity-for-first-time

Due to the way geographic wind patterns affect the generation of electricity, the two sources typically combine for their best months in the spring and fall. Annually, wind and solar made up 7 percent of electric generation in 2016, EIA said.
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Kirby posted...

youngfossil posted...

Kirby posted...

The tariff is only on IMPORTED solar panels, meaning you should buy American. Trump wins again.

American solar panels suck

Tesla sucks?

they sold like 1500 model 3s last quarter

they aren't gonna last
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Y trump hate solar?

This is fucking stupid, just like everything Trump does. If you want to force people to buy American I can see the logic, however this measure does NOTHING to help American manufactures. As it's been pointed out, what few manufacturers of solar grids we have import almost everything. How does this help them?

On a side note, I did think it was funny how quick a few conservatrolls were so excited to explain the definition of a tariff when it was already clear people knew what the word was. lmao
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At first I was like what, but then I remembered the story where a city made a dude cut his tree down that was there for like 100 years because his neighbor got solar panels. The neighbor was the smuggest asshole ever about it.

Fuck solar energy
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Irony posted...

At first I was like what, but then I remembered the story where a city made a dude cut his tree down that was there for like 100 years because his neighbor got solar panels. The neighbor was the smuggest asshole ever about it.

Fuck solar energy

Okay this is a clear example of failing to separate solar power from some government policy that happens to suck.
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Kirby posted...

youngfossil posted...

Kirby posted...

The tariff is only on IMPORTED solar panels, meaning you should buy American. Trump wins again.

American solar panels suck

Tesla sucks?

Tesla is bleeding out, it's a meme company that lives off hopes, dreams, and the cash of dumb investors.
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TheBiggerWiggle posted...

If you want to force people to buy American I can see the logic, however this measure does NOTHING to help American manufactures.

This tariff petition was literally proposed by two American solar panel manufacturers.
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The only only way to fix this is to punish them all.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Kirby posted...

youngfossil posted...

Kirby posted...

The tariff is only on IMPORTED solar panels, meaning you should buy American. Trump wins again.

American solar panels suck

Tesla sucks?

Tesla is bleeding out, it's a meme company that lives off hopes, dreams, and the cash of dumb investors.

aren't electric cars in general just a meme?
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SK8T3R215 posted...

TheBiggerWiggle posted...

If you want to force people to buy American I can see the logic, however this measure does NOTHING to help American manufactures.

This tariff petition was literally proposed by two American solar panel manufacturers.

One of which is actually just a US subsidiary of a German company, SolarWorld.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

In terms of watt-hours, it looks like the overall annual numbers for 2016 for both wind and solar combined were about 7%. So there's still a lot of room to grow, but when you look at how old retiring plants are being replaced with a lot of wind/solar it seems more optimistic.

yes--combined with wind it's 7%, but without wind it's around 1%.

the point is that 0.7% growth of wattage becomes much less after you apply efficiency rating to it SPWR's best model is 22% efficient. canadian's is 18%.
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TheBiggerWiggle posted...

This is fucking stupid, just like everything Trump does. If you want to force people to buy American I can see the logic, however this measure does NOTHING to help American manufactures. As it's been pointed out, what few manufacturers of solar grids we have import almost everything. How does this help them?

On a side note, I did think it was funny how quick a few conservatrolls were so excited to explain the definition of a tariff when it was already clear people knew what the word was. lmao

Taxing the panels is the wrong strategy. Taxing Chinese raw materials is the correct one. You cannot allow China to destroy its environment by bastardizing the Siemens process. We should not keep the market open for this. German silicon is demonstrably better quality and more environmentally friendly.

Furthermore, the same company produces silicon here in America. Use them.
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ilovu posted...

aren't electric cars in general just a meme?

All electric yes but plug in hybrids are great.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

ilovu posted...

aren't electric cars in general just a meme?

All electric yes but plug in hybrids are great.

Nah, Tesla is pretty great if you can afford the entry fee.
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