Current Events > Democrats need more votes from white working class people to win elections

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/1/29/16945106/democrats-white-working-class-demographics-alabama-clinton-obama-base

The exit polls claimed there were more white college voters (37 percent) than white non-college voters (34 percent). But in a report for the Center for American Progress synthesizing available public survey data, census data, and actual election returns, Robert Griffin, John Halpin, and I found that 2016 voters were 44 percent white non-college and just 30 percent white college-educated. (The balance were black, Latino, Asian, or other.)...

Simulations we conducted indicated that Hillary Clinton would have won the 2016 election if she had held Obamas modest support among white non-college voters from 2012

In 2012, Obama lost whites without a college degree nationally by 25 points. Four years later, Clinton did 6 points worse, losing these voters by 31 points, with shifts against her in Rust Belt states generally double or more the national average.

Had Clinton hit the thresholds of support within this group that Obama did, she would have carried, with robust margins, the states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Iowa, as well as (with narrower margins) Florida and Ohio. In fact, if Clinton could simply have reduced the shift toward Donald Trump among these voters by one-quarter, she would have won.

To put this into fuller context: If Clinton had replicated the black turnout levels enjoyed by Obama in 2012, she still would have lost the 2016 election, because the other shifts against her were so powerful.
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So if she had the same support as a candidate who won the election, she would have won the election?
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bobtuse posted...

So if she had the same support as a candidate who won the election, she would have won the election?

or if she had even managed to stop one quarter of the shift in this key demographic of uneducated white people towards her opponent!
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Good luck when the headline from the media that aligned with Democrats said white people are bad because they elected Trump.
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Too bad liberal identity politics and economic policy put this target group at the very end of the line.
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Balrog0 posted...

uneducated white people

Also, calling them uneducated. Maybe it has meaning in a university setting to call them this because the lack the product the university is selling; but in a campaign, calling them this makes them hate you.

I have a degree btw. Just saiyan.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Also, calling them uneducated. Maybe it has meaning in a university setting to call them this because the lack the product the university is selling, but in a campaign, calling them this makes them hate you.

that isn't what they are referred to during campaigns

I am not campaigning
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Where do you see the baseline of wwc support for the Democrat Party being? Did Obama outperform or Hillary underperform (or both)?

darkphoenix181 posted...

Also, calling them uneducated. Maybe it has meaning in a university setting to call them this because the lack the product the university is selling, but in a campaign, calling them this makes them hate you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpdt7omPoa0
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Balrog0 posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

Also, calling them uneducated. Maybe it has meaning in a university setting to call them this because the lack the product the university is selling, but in a campaign, calling them this makes them hate you.

that isn't what they are referred to during campaigns

I am not campaigning

Except during the campaign it was said that the Trump supporters were uneducated rednecks.
Great way to persuade them to vote for you.
Maybe Hillary herself didn't mouth these words, though she might have idk, but a lot of her big supporters across the media did.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Except during the campaign it was said that the Trump supporters were uneducated rednecks.

do you mean by random people or the people who are trying to win votes?

I don't understand your point.

I am not a democrat BTW
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When liberals and democrats stop shaming and being racist against white people they might be worth looking at.

Hilary was a terrible candidate, Obama had a lot more support as he was a good candidate with decent values.
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Democrats really need to give up on gun control. It's gotta be hurting the number of votes they get.
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This just in: white still largest race in US.
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Offworlder1 posted...

When liberals and democrats stop shaming and being racist against white people they might be worth looking at.

Hilary was a terrible candidate, Obama had a lot more support as he was a good candidate with decent values.

nah Obama was a garbage empty suit but he did have a basic level of charisma that Hilary lacked, plus a much more inspiring background
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Anteaterking posted...

Where do you see the baseline of wwc support for the Democrat Party being? Did Obama outperform or Hillary underperform (or both)?

darkphoenix181 posted...

Also, calling them uneducated. Maybe it has meaning in a university setting to call them this because the lack the product the university is selling, but in a campaign, calling them this makes them hate you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpdt7omPoa0

Ever consider why he said this?
Was it because he wanted to bash his base? Or was it because they were constantly called uneducated by his opponents?



From what I understand, this quote came during his victory. At the time articles were citing the uneducated as a big factor of his win.



Not sure which came first though, but would you argue that during his campaign, the trump supporters weren't called uneducated?
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Offworlder1 posted...

When liberals and democrats stop shaming and being racist against white people they might be worth looking at.

Hilary was a terrible candidate, Obama had a lot more support as he at least had a personality and could deliver a speech

ftfy
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Balrog0 posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

Except during the campaign it was said that the Trump supporters were uneducated rednecks.

do you mean by random people or the people who are trying to win votes?

I don't understand your point.

I am not a democrat BTW

My point is, during the campaign when his base went to rallies, what did the vocal media such as CNN refer to them as?
I mean, it is a big thing during campaigns to identify just who is going to these rallies. Did they say they were smart white people? Doubt it.

So my point is quite simple. Allies of Hillary and the DNC were trying to downplay his supporters in various ways and one way was to identify them as college degreeless by calling them uneducated.
And that would only serve to make them support Trump more.
For instance, did Fox News and Breitbart call them uneducated?
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For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin. - Chuck Schumer, 2016
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darkphoenix181 posted...

And that would only serve to make them support Trump more.

literally anything stated about a politician's supporters only serves to make them support the politician more

that is the nature of human psychology

when our decisions are praised we double down in confidence

when our decisions are shit on we double down in frustration
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Obamas attitude and how he treated people is why he was better, that charisma and how he approached things is the reason he was liked.

There is nothing likable about Hilary, she has a terrible attitude, she treats certain people like they are the enemy, and the only reason people supported her was she is a woman not her politics are good or she is so charismatic.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

My point is, during the campaign when his base went to rallies, what did the vocal media such as CNN refer to them as?
I mean, it is a big thing during campaigns to identify just who is going to these rallies. Did they say they were smart white people? Doubt it.

So my point is quite simple. Allies of Hillary and the DNC were trying to downplay his supporters in various ways and one way was to identify them as college degreeless by calling them uneducated.
And that would only serve to make them support Trump more.
For instance, did Fox News and Breitbart call them uneducated?

Did CNN ever call them uneducated? Aren't you already putting the cart before the horse, since you're the one conflating 'Trump supporter' with 'uneducated' which presumably means lacking a college degree? But many of those people voted for Obama, which is the problem.

What I'm saying is that I don't understand your point given those things.Yes, Trump voters were shamed but the way you're framing it is that the shame came after their support for Trump. So at that point does it matter? Do you think they would stop being mad at Democrats if CNN stopped calling them uneducated (I really don't think they used that term, and if they did, I'm not sure it was regularly, but prove me wrong!)
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darkphoenix181 posted...

From what I understand, this quote came during his victory.

It was from February 2016.

darkphoenix181 posted...

Not sure which came first though, but would you argue that during his campaign, the trump supporters weren't called uneducated?

You said "No one would vote for someone who called them uneducated/poorly educated". But in reality

Darkman124 posted...

literally anything stated about a politician's supporters only serves to make them support the politician more

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Why would a working class white person vote for the Democrats when the Democrats are more concerned with illegal aliens and suppressing wages?
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So they need the one group of people they dedicated themselves to demonizing

Top kek
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Democrats nominated a historically unpopular candidate and did so in a fashion that appeared to ram her through past opposition to the detriment of party unity and then proceeded to run a horrible campaign that essentially only pandered to people that were already going to vote Democrat and completely ignored major battleground states.

Democrats don't need anything except actual competence.
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Darkman124 posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

And that would only serve to make them support Trump more.

literally anything stated about a politician's supporters only serves to make them support the politician more

That statement is illogical.

And it downplays something like this as having no effect:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/us/politics/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables.html

Republicans from the presidential ticket on down pounced Saturday on Hillary Clintons remarks that half of Donald J. Trumps supporters fit into a basket of deplorables, saying it showed she was out of touch with an economically hard-hit electorate.

Mrs. Clintons comments Friday night, which were a variation of a sentiment she has expressed in other settings recently, came at a fund-raiser in Manhattan.

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trumps supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? she said to applause and laughter. The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.

The premise of this thread is Hillary failed to appease to a certain voter. That same voter would have viewed this comment as commenting on them.
But hey, it don't matter what you say?

I mean, imagine if instead of saying they were deplorable, she talked about how she understood their frustration. She recognized what was pulling people to Trump. And she then addressed that she would be their candidate and they should come to her.

Instead she says "yeah, if you like Trump, you are bad."

Trump did the same thing though when he said people crossing the border were bad hombres, but he still won. Don't think he said half of hillary supporters were such and such, but hey if he did I wouldn't be surprised.
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Duh.
Also good, it keeps them (or should) more moderate.
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Maybe don't demonize whites and trivialize their problems next election cycle, and the Dems will get these votes back.
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Liberals made us vote for Trump.
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The Admiral posted...

Maybe don't demonize whites and trivialize their problems next election cycle, and the Dems will get these votes back.

But that's their entire campaign platform at this point.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

That statement is illogical.

people are illogical.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Also good, it keeps them (or should) more moderate.

that's an odd perspective imo

in what sense is the white working class moderate?
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Good luck when the headline from the media that aligned with Democrats said white people are bad because they elected Trump.

darkjedilink posted...

Too bad liberal identity politics and economic policy put this target group at the very end of the line.

The Admiral posted...

Maybe don't demonize whites and trivialize their problems next election cycle, and the Dems will get these votes back.

Balrog0 posted...

Offworlder1 posted...

When liberals and democrats stop shaming and being racist against white people they might be worth looking at.

Hilary was a terrible candidate, Obama had a lot more support as he was a good candidate with decent values.

nah Obama was a garbage empty suit but he did have a basic level of charisma that Hilary lacked, plus a much more inspiring background

Yeah they were pretty much similar candidates but Obama had charisma. Was funny to watch the same people hope and changing Obama attacking Hillary 8 years later without any reflection.

To conflate working class and non-college educated is an extremely poor oversight.
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It's amazing how Republicans have poor people brainwashed to vote against their own interests. And they'll defend it to the death too. Really, a master class in persuasion.
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Darkman124 posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

That statement is illogical.

people are illogical.

So you think there is basically nothing that could have been done? Wouldn't have mattered if Hillary said anything different and the media treated this voting base differently?
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COVxy posted...

To conflate working class and non-college educated is an extremely poor oversight.

You're not wrong!
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Antifar posted...

COVxy posted...

To conflate working class and non-college educated is an extremely poor oversight.

You're not wrong!

please, elaborate
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Balrog0 posted...

in what sense is the white working class moderate?

In the sense that they oppose the radical idiocy from the far left wing of the Dems.
Radical idiocy being stuff like open borders, literal communism, and such.

Not trying to turn whiteness into an ideology itself btw, just stating that the average* ideology for the white working class is moderate.
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nexigrams posted...

It's amazing how Republicans have poor people brainwashed to vote against their own interests. And they'll defend it to the death too. Really, a master class in persuasion.

The difference between poor Republicans and poor Democrats is that poor Republicans don't have a victim complex. Unlike the left, they find the notion of being a victim repulsive, so they're never going to vote for the side that spews that rhetoric.
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nexigrams posted...

It's amazing how Republicans have poor people brainwashed to vote against their own interests. And they'll defend it to the death too. Really, a master class in persuasion.

Please explain what part of higher wages, lower taxes and more jobs is "against the interests" of poor people? The Democrats want to put low wage employees out of work and bring in millions of illegals to take their jobs.
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@nexigrams posted...

It's amazing how Republicans have poor people brainwashed to vote against their own interests. And they'll defend it to the death too. Really, a master class in persuasion.

So you are more intelligent than these people and you are also immune from brainwashing yourself?
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DP, I'm just broadly not understanding the insinuation that insulting Trump supporters is the reason that they voted Trump, when they were already his supporters.

Like it's one thing if Hillary said "Louisiana is full of chuckle****s" and then she lost Louisiana for that reason.

But responding to "Some Trump supporters are deplorables" with "You know what? If she thinks I'm a deplorable, maybe I just WILL continue to support Trump", like the people who stuck with him through the entire primary season were just on the verge of switching if only someone didn't say something negative about their support.
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It's amazing how Republicans have poor people brainwashed to vote against their own interests. And they'll defend it to the death too. Really, a master class in persuasion.

It's largely the abortion thing. There's a whole lot you'll endure before you vote for the party that says literal murder is ok.
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The Admiral posted...

nexigrams posted...

It's amazing how Republicans have poor people brainwashed to vote against their own interests. And they'll defend it to the death too. Really, a master class in persuasion.

The difference between poor Republicans and poor Democrats is that poor Republicans don't have a victim complex. Unlike the left, they find the notion of being a victim repulsive, so they're never going to vote for the side that spews that rhetoric.

r4X0r posted...

nexigrams posted...

It's amazing how Republicans have poor people brainwashed to vote against their own interests. And they'll defend it to the death too. Really, a master class in persuasion.

Please explain what part of higher wages, lower taxes and more jobs is "against the interests" of poor people? The Democrats want to put low wage employees out of work and bring in millions of illegals to take their jobs.

darkphoenix181 posted...

@nexigrams posted...

It's amazing how Republicans have poor people brainwashed to vote against their own interests. And they'll defend it to the death too. Really, a master class in persuasion.

So you are more intelligent than these people and you are also immune from brainwashing yourself?

Just, a complete master class.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

In the sense that they oppose the radical idiocy from the far left wing of the Dems.
Radical idiocy being stuff like open borders, literal communism, and such.

Not trying to turn whiteness into an ideology itself btw, just stating that the average* ideology for the white working class is moderate.

I mean, I don't think the average person has an ideology which is moderate in a way I suppose

They oppose those things, but they support other asinine things we would consider radical, or at least asinine, as well
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How are people still Democrats in the year of our Lord 2018.

The Admiral posted...

poor Republicans don't have a victim complex

HAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHhahhahahhah ooohhh that's rich.
They're the victims of everything, "took ma jerbs, took mah guns, took muh alimony, took my religion in schools, took muh country!"

r4X0r posted...

Please explain what part of higher wages, lower taxes and more jobs

The question is one of sustainability, that's all theoretically great n all, until there's a collapse, until the debt skyrockets, etc etc etc
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