Current Events > The problem with progessivism

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/7wdput/university_of_wisconsinmadison_to_offer_free/

This is the top story on reddit right now: University of Wisconsin-Madison to offer free tuition for families making less than $56K

But all of the top comments are something like "Yeah, well what about the families who make $57k?"

Nothing is ever good enough. When a step in the right direction is made, progressives are always looking at the next step.
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Yes reddit represents the collective identity of progressivism and not some hive mind of shitposting
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Reddit sucks
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The problem with that is that if you make 65k, you aren't eligible for the program but you're now at a disadvantage because the costs of the education put you well below the 56k the other family is making. So basically it's rewarding the people who make less money AND punishing the people who make slightly more. You'd have to be making something like 150k in order to not be disadvantaged by the fact that the low income families are being overwhelmingly advantaged with these programs. It's similar to how people on welfare have no real incentive to work harder to get out of welfare.

The best solution is to get government money out of universities and allow competition to drive down costs some more.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Nothing is ever good enough. When a step in the right direction is made, progressives are always looking at the next step.

This is a good thing being presented as a problem. Complacency and satisfaction lead to decline.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Nothing is ever good enough. When a step in the right direction is made, progressives are always looking at the next step.

Binary safety nets and social programs are fucking stupid. That's why you get shit where it's better to make less and be on food stamps than make an extra dollar an hour, that's a legitimate complaint.
Having massive changes because of over/under versus a gradient is absolutely shit policy
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I guess we also need to make tuition in general cheaper and/or provide every one with free undergrad education.
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The best solution is to get government money out of universities and allow competition to drive down costs some more.

Yes let the costs go down more in this idealistic bullshit utopia world this guy lives in where the costs are going down...
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hockeybub89 posted...

I guess we also need to make tuition in general cheaper and/or provide every one with free undergrad education.

You do the first by not doing the second. Doing the second also completely invalidates the value of the degree in the first place.
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hockeybub89 posted...

I guess we also need to make tuition in general cheaper and/or provide every one with free undergrad education.

The only way to make it cheaper is by allowing competition to do its thing. Tuition control, much like rent control, would be disastrous. As for free undergrad education...no such thing as free.
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The government to make the schools accountable for government student loans

Then colleges will stop building resorts and focus on educating people... and tuition costs will also stop rising perpetually
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I guess we also need to make tuition in general cheaper and/or provide every one with free undergrad education.

The only way to make it cheaper is by allowing competition to do its thing. Tuition control, much like rent control, would be disastrous. As for free undergrad education...no such thing as free.

Well no it wouldn't be free, but everyone would get it by virtue of paying the taxes necessary to keep a civilized nation operational. Healthcare too while we are at it.
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hockeybub89 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I guess we also need to make tuition in general cheaper and/or provide every one with free undergrad education.

The only way to make it cheaper is by allowing competition to do its thing. Tuition control, much like rent control, would be disastrous. As for free undergrad education...no such thing as free.

Well no it wouldn't be free, but everyone would get it by virtue of paying the taxes necessary to keep a civilized nation operational.

Nah, the nation is operating great, and was operating great, well before the government inflated the current costs of tuition in the first place. And considering people complain about employers requiring useless degrees for random jobs I laugh at how leftists STILL want to conflate education with getting a degree, and employability with doing an undergraduate program.
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seems the quick fix would be to have a sliding scale similar to how taxes work
that way people are getting free or reduced tuition and there's no times when it'd be better to cut your hours so you can afford tuition
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I guess we also need to make tuition in general cheaper and/or provide every one with free undergrad education.

The only way to make it cheaper is by allowing competition to do its thing. Tuition control, much like rent control, would be disastrous. As for free undergrad education...no such thing as free.

Well no it wouldn't be free, but everyone would get it by virtue of paying the taxes necessary to keep a civilized nation operational.

Nah, the nation is operating great, and was operating great, well before the government inflated the current costs of tuition in the first place. And considering people complain about employers requiring useless degrees for random jobs I laugh at how leftists STILL want to conflate education with getting a degree, and employability with doing an undergraduate program.

When did this nation not have taxes and government programs? Why are you ok with is being good enough? Where is that American work ethic?
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zH0mPfR posted...

The ultimate shitpost
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prince_leo posted...

seems the quick fix would be to have a sliding scale similar to how taxes work
that way people are getting free or reduced tuition and there's no times when it'd be better to cut your hours so you can afford tuition

joestarrr posted...

prince_leo posted...

seems the quick fix would be to have a sliding scale similar to how taxes work
that way people are getting free or reduced tuition and there's no times when it'd be better to cut your hours so you can afford tuition

Protip: Any solution you can summarize in one sentence that you made up on the spot is likely not a good solution for a problem as complicated as education.
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It's not like families who make $57k will have to go into debt for life. They will still get a lot of free money through FAFSA. This is just something the school is doing, and it's a good start. They can't just make all tuition free, but obviously this $56k point fits under the budget
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That's kind of the point of progressivism. You are always trying to improve.
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zH0mPfR posted...

Hahahaha no. Those last three instantly disqualify him from being a progressive.
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hockeybub89 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I guess we also need to make tuition in general cheaper and/or provide every one with free undergrad education.

The only way to make it cheaper is by allowing competition to do its thing. Tuition control, much like rent control, would be disastrous. As for free undergrad education...no such thing as free.

Well no it wouldn't be free, but everyone would get it by virtue of paying the taxes necessary to keep a civilized nation operational.

Nah, the nation is operating great, and was operating great, well before the government inflated the current costs of tuition in the first place. And considering people complain about employers requiring useless degrees for random jobs I laugh at how leftists STILL want to conflate education with getting a degree, and employability with doing an undergraduate program.

When did this nation not have taxes and government programs? Why are you ok with is being good enough? Where is that American work ethic?

I'm talking about how we've operated up until now. We've done great and are doing well. If anything, the employment situation has gotten worse because of bleeding-heart liberals who wanted education to be "affordable" or "free" and thus inflated the costs (and the job requirements) by forcing more people into college programs.

It pains me that leftists STILL don't realize this.
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s0nicfan posted...

Protip: Any solution you can summarize in one sentence that you made up on the spot is likely not a good solution for a problem as complicated as education.

it's not really something that got made up on the spot. it's a common solution that has been presented for EBT / food stamps, just transferred to the education side of things

FLUFFYGERM posted...

I'm talking about how we've operated up until now. We've done great and are doing well. If anything, the employment situation has gotten worse because of bleeding-heart liberals who wanted education to be "affordable" or "free" and thus inflated the costs (and the job requirements) by forcing more people into college programs.

i'm interested in if there was a backlash about k-12 being free
not as a "gotcha!" to you, just curious if people were upset about public education for the same reasons you're giving
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For anyone who's actually interested in a solution for the current education situation, I'd highly recommend watching this interview by Mike Rowe who also did a TED talk on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0

Rowe recently sat down with Reason's Nick Gillespie to discuss his bad experience with a high school guidance counselor (3:20), why he provides scholarships based on work ethic (6:57), the problem with taxpayer-supported college loans (8:40), why America demonizes dirty jobs (11:32), the happiest day of his life (13:14), why following your passion is terrible advice (17:05), why it's so hard to hire good people (21:04), the hidden cost of regulatory compliance (23:16), the problem with Obama's promise to create shovel ready jobs (33:05), efficiency versus effectiveness (34:17), and life after Dirty Jobs (38:24).

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Tmaster148 posted...

That's kind of the point of progressivism. You are always trying to improve.

That's the fundamental problem with progessivism. Progressives always have to find something more to complain about.

Even if we live in a literal utopia, they would find something wrong and try to change it.
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Paper_Okami posted...

zH0mPfR posted...

The ultimate shitpost

And doubly funny coming from a guy who has literally advocated for forced sterilization of Mexicans
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

That's kind of the point of progressivism. You are always trying to improve.

That's the fundamental problem with progessivism. Progressives always have to find something more to complain about.

Even if we live in a literal utopia, they would find something wrong and try to change it.

Generally what happens is that one generation fights for x and once they get x they don't really care to fight further. Next generation comes along and fights for y. Etc.

Progression is a part of life.
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i don't like it because dudes holding hands is icky
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