Current Events > AR15s are a problem

(+) Yeah! (+)

D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

I'll say it to each of their faces no problem.

Well then you're a fucking psychopath and the last person who should own firearms, by your own definition.

D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

Got a source on that? Or are you talking out of your ass yet again?

Dude, you'd be hard pressed to find the opposite. I'm not saying these people aren't unstable but they're not diagnosed so it's a completely moot point.

The Vegas shooter had no diagnosed mental illnesses and trust me, the media tried to find them. All they could find was that he had was a prescription for fucking diazepam lol. Also, this Florida kid had nothing diagnosed. You know what he did have though?

On an Instagram page identified by friends as Cruz's and which has since been taken down, his love of weapons was obvious.

Huh, would you look at that.
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4%. thats the number of gun deaths the AR15 has on its hands per year. thats on par with other rifles and shotguns. handguns take up 80%. the AR15 is the most widely owned single type of rifle in the country. its in literally millions of citizens hands so yes unfortunately its going to show up in some bad ways. the AR15 is not that unique. there are dozens of similar types of weapons that are just as available and yet everyone wants to single out the AR as if getting rid of it will solve anything in anyway when you can just as easily move over to an FNH, PTR, AK, Mini14, HK ect.

this is the core problem with the gun control debate and why nothing happens. gun controllers act almost all on their emotions and try to pass laws on items and a system they know absolutely nothing about.
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AR-15 is not military grade. It is a civilian version of the military M16.
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Link HT posted...

Well then you're a fucking psychopath

I wouldn't trust your definition of that tbqh
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Link HT posted...

Dude, you'd be hard pressed to find the opposite. I'm not saying these people aren't unstable but they're not diagnosed so it's a completely moot point.

Moving the goalpost, how quaint.

It's also incorrect, I should mention.

https://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

AR-15 is not military grade. It is a civilian version of the military M16.

The only difference between those 2 guns is one is automatic and the other is semi-automatic.

iT's nOt MiLiTarY GrADe tHouGh!!1!1
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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

Moving the goalpost, how quaint.

It's also incorrect, I should mention.

https://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html

wait wait wait, are you seriously posting an article from AMMOLAND.com whose credible source is: The list was compiled and published to Facebook by John Noveske, founder and owner of Noveske Rifleworks?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
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Link HT posted...

D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

Moving the goalpost, how quaint.

It's also incorrect, I should mention.

https://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html

wait wait wait, are you seriously posting an article from AMMOLAND.com whose credible source is: The list was compiled and published to Facebook by John Noveske, founder and owner of Noveske Rifleworks?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

So give me your source for all the stuff you pull out of your ass that disproves it.

I'll wait
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Don't even bother, he's going to keep moving the goalpost or just disregarding any facts he doesn't like.

I mean look at his whole stance, it's the easiest no thought stance there is: "let's just ban a gun"

Unsugarized_Foo posted...

100% of all shootings are with guns

THIS
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why do you need 30 round magazines for self-defence

who have you angered for this to be necessary
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Link HT posted...

wait wait wait, are you seriously posting an article from AMMOLAND.com whose credible source is: The list was compiled and published to Facebook by John Noveske, founder and owner of Noveske Rifleworks?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

So....what? You're saying he just made it all up?

I really doubt that tbqh.
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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

So give me your source for all the stuff you pull out of your ass that disproves it.

I'll wait

You're the one who claims every shooter is mentally unstable, burden of proof is on you buddy. It's easy to say someone is unhinged after they murder people but if your masterplan is to "keep guns our of the mentally unstable" then it only makes sense to prove every gunman is diagnosed with a mental illness. Otherwise what's the fucking point of that rule if it's unenforceable? If you can only prove someone is unstable AFTER they commit mass murder then you're stopping exactly ZERO shootings.
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I don't know why people are acting that most mass shooters haven't been diagnosed with mental disorders...

That's just patently untrue. Unless you don't need to be diagnosed to be given anti-depressants, but if that's the case I think we've got a real case of it's a problem with the healthcare industry not treating mental health properly at play.
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Link HT posted...

Youngster_Joey_ posted...

it just lead to people using bombs

can you buy bombs? Wait can you buy like grenades in the US?

Yeah homie they sell 12 packs in oversized egg cartons at WalMart in the sporting goods section
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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

Don't even bother, he's going to keep moving the goalpost or just disregarding any facts he doesn't like.

I mean look at his whole stance, it's the easiest no thought stance there is: "let's just ban a gun"

I never said that but okay. All I said was that certain guns should be banned from the general public. I'm not sure where the line between what guns are okay and what aren't is, I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm pretty sure this gun in particular should definitely belong on the banned side. It's not a difficult concept but you guys are having trouble keeping up si I explained it again.
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Link HT posted...

D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

So give me your source for all the stuff you pull out of your ass that disproves it.

I'll wait

You're the one who claims every shooter is mentally unstable, burden of proof is on you buddy. It's easy to say someone is unhinged after they murder people but if your masterplan is to "keep guns our of the mentally unstable" then it only makes sense to prove every gunman is diagnosed with a mental illness. Otherwise what's the fucking point of that rule if it's unenforceable? If you can only prove someone is unstable AFTER they commit mass murder then you're stopping exactly ZERO shootings.

I provided it, it's your burden to disprove it.

It's really easy to just go "hahaha, it's from a gun website so I'm not even going to read it."
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AlecSkorpio posted...

I don't know why people are acting that most mass shooters haven't been diagnosed with mental disorders...

That's just patently untrue. Unless you don't need to be diagnosed to be given anti-depressants, but if that's the case I think we've got a real case of it's a problem with the healthcare industry not treating mental health properly at play.

13% of americans take anti-depressants and the majority don't commit mass murder. If that's all you're going by to attempt and diagnose what makes someone a mass shooter then that's a really poor definition.
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Link HT posted...

I'm not an expert by any means,

That's pretty clear since you seem to think we can buy grenades from walmart...

Do you even live in the US? Why are we even taking this guy seriously?

D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

It's really easy to just go "hahaha, it's from a gun website so I'm not even going to read it."

I'm sorry, did you not read that the source was a LITERAL facebook post from an owner of a gun company?

Because if you want I can make my own facebook post and just use that as proof, it's just as credible.
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Link HT posted...

Because if you want I can make my own facebook post and just use that as proof, it's just as credible.

You've been doing that this whole topic so please, be my guest. I'm sure people with more time than me will tear your shit apart.
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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

Link HT posted...

I'm not an expert by any means,

That's pretty clear since you seem to think we can buy grenades from walmart...

Do you even live in the US? Why are we even taking this guy seriously?

Never said that though. You can buy tear-gas grenades, the Colorado batman shooter had them along with body armor and assault rifles.

It would be pretty funny if you now told me all those are okay but regular explosive grenades aren't.
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Link HT posted...

13% of americans take anti-depressants and the majority don't commit mass murder. If that's all you're going by to attempt and diagnose what makes someone a mass shooter then that's a really poor definition.

Quick question

Do you take anti-depressants?

Because you seem to really be upset that anyone would even dare to accuse anti-depressant use having a hand in these tragedies.

Probably the same way that the majority of gun owners who don't go on spree killings don't really like everyone acting like it's the guns fault or something.

D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

Link HT posted...

Because if you want I can make my own facebook post and just use that as proof, it's just as credible.

You've been doing that this whole topic so please, be my guest. I'm sure people with more time than me will tear your shit apart.

would be a nice change of pace after ripping you a new one ITT.
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Link HT posted...

You can buy tear-gas grenades,

Moving the goal post. You also can't buy them at walmart lol

Youngster_Joey_ posted...

Link HT posted...

13% of americans take anti-depressants and the majority don't commit mass murder. If that's all you're going by to attempt and diagnose what makes someone a mass shooter then that's a really poor definition.

Quick question

Do you take anti-depressants?

Because you seem to really be upset that anyone would even dare to accuse anti-depressant use having a hand in these tragedies.

Probably the same way that the majority of gun owners who don't go on spree killings don't really like everyone acting like it's the guns fault or something.

Nope.

You're right though and if you notice I never suggested a ban on guns ITT. Responsible gun owners are fine in my book. All I said was that regular civilians shouldn't have access to some types of guns and you guys lost your shit immediately.
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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

Link HT posted...

You can buy tear-gas grenades,

Moving the goal post. You also can't buy them at walmart lol

quote where I said you could, go on.
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Link HT posted...

quote where I said you could, go on.

My bad, I mis remembered that. You just said US.

Anyways, here's something I found

http://kellybroganmd.com/mass-shootings-the-new-manifestation-of-an-ancient-phenomenon-and-their-link-to-psychiatric-drugs/

It's the people of this day, and has nothing to do with guns.

Maybe cut out video game, movie, and tv violence, while giving shooters no media glory.
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https://www.cchrint.org/2017/10/10/another-mass-shooting-another-psychiatric-drug/

http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/psych-meds-linked-to-90-of-school-shootings/

http://behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/2014/09/22/mass-murderers-and-psychiatric-drugs/

it's almost like most school shooters are disturbed people, and that disturbed people would be taking medication for said disturbed nature

it's like saying inhalers cause asthma, because the majority of asthmatics use them
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why can't both guns and mental health be q problem
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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

Link HT posted...

quote where I said you could, go on.

My bad, I mis remembered that. You just said US.

Anyways, here's something I found

http://kellybroganmd.com/mass-shootings-the-new-manifestation-of-an-ancient-phenomenon-and-their-link-to-psychiatric-drugs/

long read, care to give me the main points?

You guys know every country have people with mental problems and on anti-depressants, right? Way less mass shooting though, so what's the deal? Are we back to the classic "No way to prevent this: says only country where this regularly happens"?
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The funny thing is, I'm for restrictions. I just want actual fucking discussion on the matter so that maybe the root cause can be found.

Just banning AR15's or "military weapons" won't do anything and wouldn't ever happen anyway, just like there will never be some sort of restriction on anti depresants because of the lobbyists.
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Neoconkers posted...

why do you need 30 round magazines for self-defence

who have you angered for this to be necessary

Why does anyone need more than a nine liter capacity fire extinguisher? If you can't handle a kitchen fire in three liters, you're a bad shot and deserve what you've got coming.

If you don't see the need for a thirty round rifle magazine, don't buy one. Problem solved.
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Open up your eyes... America is full of mental health patients

It's in no way the guns.

Also for asthma post.. inhalers do cause asthma because your lungs get used to having it, and actually contract when they want some spray.
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Dark_Spiret posted...

4%. thats the number of gun deaths the AR15 has on its hands per year. thats on par with other rifles and shotguns. handguns take up 80%. the AR15 is the most widely owned single type of rifle in the country. its in literally millions of citizens hands so yes unfortunately its going to show up in some bad ways. the AR15 is not that unique. there are dozens of similar types of weapons that are just as available and yet everyone wants to single out the AR as if getting rid of it will solve anything in anyway when you can just as easily move over to an FNH, PTR, AK, Mini14, HK ect.

this is the core problem with the gun control debate and why nothing happens. gun controllers act almost all on their emotions and try to pass laws on items and a system they know absolutely nothing about.

Is it actually 4%? I would have guessed much smaller. Where did that number come from?

But yeah you're right that one of the fundamental issues of the gun control movement is that it revolves around hysterical emotional reactions, usually to mass shootings, and it's not really a sound analysis of the issue. Even pro gun control types like Sam Harris have admitted this.
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GregShmedley posted...

Link HT posted...

AlecSkorpio posted...

I don't know why people are acting that most mass shooters haven't been diagnosed with mental disorders...

That's just patently untrue. Unless you don't need to be diagnosed to be given anti-depressants, but if that's the case I think we've got a real case of it's a problem with the healthcare industry not treating mental health properly at play.

13% of americans take anti-depressants and the majority don't commit mass murder. If that's all you're going by to attempt and diagnose what makes someone a mass shooter then that's a really poor definition.

30% of Americans own guns and the majority don't commit mass murder. A gun doesn't magically "make" someone a mass shooter; their mental state does. Why are we laughing off actually looking into if medication that drastically change our brain chemicals has a role here?

Because people on anti-depressants can't commit mass shootings without guns. FFS is it a massive coincidence they happen in the US where guns are easily available?

You'd think deranged people in other countries would find and buy illegal weapons and commit mass shootings everywhere but you simply don't see it.

Is the argument that the average american is SEVERELY more mentally unstable and that's the cause for so many shootings?
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I guess my issue with banning guns is that it wouldn't fix the problem. You guys can act like it's worth trying all you want, but there are far more guns than people in this country. Almost everyone who owns a gun isn't going to give them up.

I'm willing to talk restrictions, licensing. I feel the solution is regulation more than outright bans so we can make it harder for people who shouldn't have these guns getting them.

And I feel that blowing off the anti depressant thing is dumb as fuck. We have a problem with that in the country in general, not just for mass shooters. They're both issues that are tied together but need to be handled for their own reasons.

It just feels like a ban is just an easy solution for people who don't want to be bothered to do any work. It's like cutting off your entire leg because you have an infection. Yeah, it will get rid of the infection but you probably could have just gotten rid of the infection and kept your leg if you put a little effort in.
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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

It's only because AR15's have become over produced in the USA.

If it wasn't an AR15 it'd be a Ruger or Surplus AK, I guarantee it.

Yeah didn't the Pulse shooter use a Ruger? I know it was reported as an AR15 but then they said that was false after
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4%? Let's look at the FBI data.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2011-2015.xls

2015 seems to be the latest year available, and there were 9,616 total gun homicides. 6,447 were committed with handguns and 252 were committed with rifles. That comes out to 0.0390879478827362. I call .039 close as makes no difference to 4%. So that checks out. Almost.

I said almost for a reason. That's rifles of ALL TYPES and makes and models, not just AR-15s. That's everything from a .22 range plinker to a .50 BMG Barret to Grandpa's bolt action deer rifle. To really find the number of homicides the AR-15 is used in, you'd have to know what percentage of rifles are AR-15s, and that's not data that's actually available. I can't find anything concrete on rifle ownership specifically. So all we can safely say is "less than four percent." But take into account there's only about seven million AR-15s in the country, out of 300,000,000 total firearms.
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thronedfire2 posted...

Yeah didn't the Pulse shooter use a Ruger? I know it was reported as an AR15 but then they said that was false after

its technically an AR just made by ruger (lots of manufacturers make AR's). ruger also makes the mini14 which tends to be left out of "assault rifle" discussions despite basically being the same thing only it tends to have wood accessory's making it look less "scary".
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r4X0r posted...

2015 seems to be the latest year available, and there were 9,616 total gun homicides. 6,447 were committed with handguns and 252 were committed with rifles. That comes out to 0.0390879478827362. I call .039 close as makes no difference to 4%. So that checks out. Almost.

I said almost for a reason. That's rifles of ALL TYPES and makes and models, not just AR-15s. That's everything from a .22 range plinker to a .50 BMG Barret to Grandpa's bolt action deer rifle. To really find the number of homicides the AR-15 is used in, you'd have to know what percentage of rifles are AR-15s, and that's not data that's actually available. I can't find anything concrete on rifle ownership specifically. So all we can safely say is "less than four percent." But take into account there's only about seven million AR-15s in the country, out of 300,000,000 total firearms.

Oh okay, that makes sense. So the number for AR-15s specifically is way less than 4% then.

There's probably some popular handgun model, a Glock or something, that is responsible for more deaths than any other type of gun, yet it's not getting any attention whatsoever in this current wave of those calling for gun control. At least on twitter, I've only seen "assault weapons" and AR-15s condemned.
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Handguns are the main problem, but of course the knee-jerk emotional left wants to ban something that won't be that effective just to appease people's feelings.
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pres_madagascar posted...

Youngster_Joey_ posted...

I know most of CE was born after like 1996, but like there was a period between 1994 and 2004 where AR15's pretty much were banned and it just lead to people using bombs and other guns instead.

Yep. I'm 30.

Bush lifted the ban on Assault style weapons. Here we are today.

At the request of the FBI because it had reduced crime by a whopping 0.9 percent over 10 years, at a cost of billions of dollars.
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pres_madagascar posted...

Youngster_Joey_ posted...

I know most of CE was born after like 1996, but like there was a period between 1994 and 2004 where AR15's pretty much were banned and it just lead to people using bombs and other guns instead.

Yep. I'm 30.

Bush lifted the ban on Assault style weapons. Here we are today.

No he didn't, the law was set to expire 10 years after it was passed.
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