Current Events > "It's not guns! It's a mental health problem!"

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you take this argument and then proceed to debate the merits of mental health issues and/or video game contributions to those mental health issues, you've effectively taken the real argument (It's not guns) as accepted fact without any actual argument.

If you say it's not guns, you have to prove that it's not guns. Just because mental health problems exist doesn't mean it's not actually guns or that guns aren't at least partially to blame.

Can anyone prove that? That it's just not guns? Why all of the places with the lowest amount of shooting incidents all have incredibly restrictive gun laws?
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https://politics.theonion.com/this-shooting-isn-t-about-gun-control-we-refuse-to-pass-1819585076
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Except it's demonstrably not guns. There are hundreds of millions of guns and tens of millions of citizens who have a gun. 99.9% of these people never use their guns to go on shooting sprees.

Basic math shows you that it's not the guns. Did you even pause to think about what you're posting before you posted it?

And have you looked at the gun crime in places like Chicago?

It's remarkable how mental health problems exist everywhere in the world yet gun violence is heavily concentrated in countries with easy gun availability!

silentwing26x posted...

Except it's demonstrably not guns. There are hundreds of millions of guns and tens of millions of citizens who have a gun. 99.9% of these people never use their guns to go on shooting sprees.

Basic math shows you that it's not the guns. Did you even pause to think about what you're posting before you posted it?

"Behold" is not a valid proof of anything
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Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Except it's demonstrably not guns. There are hundreds of millions of guns and tens of millions of citizens who have a gun. 99.9% of these people never use their guns to go on shooting sprees.

Basic math shows you that it's not the guns. Did you even pause to think about what you're posting before you posted it?

"Behold" is not a valid proof of anything

What are you talking about? The numbers of guns and gun owners in America are both huge. 99.99% of these people never go on shooting sprees. It's basic math to show that guns are not themselves the issue.

Okay I'll prove its not guns:

Lots of people with guns never go on shooting sprees.

Now that we've gotten your semantic bullshit out of the way, let's get to the real argument.

silentwing26x posted...

What are you talking about? The numbers of guns and gun owners in America are both huge. 99.99% of these people never go on shooting sprees. It's basic math to show that guns are not themselves the issue.

Basic math? What basic math are you talking about? Because it looks more like you're talking about Bayesian probability which isn't fucking basic at all.
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RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Lots of people with guns never go on shooting sprees.

How many people without guns never go on shooting sprees? (hint: the answer is all of them)
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Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

What are you talking about? The numbers of guns and gun owners in America are both huge. 99.99% of these people never go on shooting sprees. It's basic math to show that guns are not themselves the issue.

Basic math? What basic math are you talking about? Because it looks more like you're talking about Bayesian probability which isn't fucking basic at all.

Are you a troll account? How many times do I have to repeat myself? This is incredibly basic. Let's try one more time.

There are hundreds of millions of guns in America. There are tens of millions of Americans who have guns. 99.99% of these Americans will never go on a shooting spree or murderous rampage. Therefore the guns are not the problem.

Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Except it's demonstrably not guns. There are hundreds of millions of guns and tens of millions of citizens who have a gun. 99.9% of these people never use their guns to go on shooting sprees.

Basic math shows you that it's not the guns. Did you even pause to think about what you're posting before you posted it?

"Behold" is not a valid proof of anything

Of all the mass gun shootings done in the past ten, twenty years, what was the main factor of all the suspects? They all had some sort of mental illness.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Lots of people with guns never go on shooting sprees.

How many people without guns never go on shooting sprees? (hint: the answer is all of them)

They seek out guns or make pipe bombs or steal semi trucks and then plow them into crowds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

DirkDiggles posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Except it's demonstrably not guns. There are hundreds of millions of guns and tens of millions of citizens who have a gun. 99.9% of these people never use their guns to go on shooting sprees.

Basic math shows you that it's not the guns. Did you even pause to think about what you're posting before you posted it?

"Behold" is not a valid proof of anything

Of all the mass gun shootings done in the past ten, twenty years, what was the main factor of all the suspects? They all had some sort of mental illness.

Not to mention that gun culture has been this way in America since basically its inception. Yet these types of shootings are a recent phenomenon.

silentwing26x posted...

Except it's demonstrably not guns. There are hundreds of millions of guns and tens of millions of citizens who have a gun. 99.9% of these people never use their guns to go on shooting sprees.

Basic math shows you that it's not the guns. Did you even pause to think about what you're posting before you posted it?

And have you looked at the gun crime in places like Chicago?

99.9% is really lowballing it.
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"Mental health mental health mental health!"

*makes healthcare more expensive and harder to get*

That's why it's obvious certain politicians and their supporters are full of shit when they say that.
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silentwing26x posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

What are you talking about? The numbers of guns and gun owners in America are both huge. 99.99% of these people never go on shooting sprees. It's basic math to show that guns are not themselves the issue.

Basic math? What basic math are you talking about? Because it looks more like you're talking about Bayesian probability which isn't fucking basic at all.

Are you a troll account? How many times do I have to repeat myself? This is incredibly basic. Let's try one more time.

There are hundreds of millions of guns in America. There are tens of millions of Americans who have guns. 99.99% of these Americans will never go on a shooting spree or murderous rampage. Therefore the guns are not the problem.

Wait, so, like, is this kind of how there are over a billion muslims and 99.99% of them will never suicide bomb people so we should be happy to accept refugees?
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Its both. That and your society as a whole that is the problem.
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Steve Nick posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Except it's demonstrably not guns. There are hundreds of millions of guns and tens of millions of citizens who have a gun. 99.9% of these people never use their guns to go on shooting sprees.

Basic math shows you that it's not the guns. Did you even pause to think about what you're posting before you posted it?

And have you looked at the gun crime in places like Chicago?

99.9% is really lowballing it.

Yeah it's more like 99.9999999%.

Southernfatman posted...

"Mental health mental health mental health!"

*makes healthcare more expensive and harder to get*

Obama made healthcare more expensive and harder to get.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/business/2016/07/14/health-insurance-bigger-mortgage-somethings-wrong

Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

What are you talking about? The numbers of guns and gun owners in America are both huge. 99.99% of these people never go on shooting sprees. It's basic math to show that guns are not themselves the issue.

Basic math? What basic math are you talking about? Because it looks more like you're talking about Bayesian probability which isn't fucking basic at all.

Are you a troll account? How many times do I have to repeat myself? This is incredibly basic. Let's try one more time.

There are hundreds of millions of guns in America. There are tens of millions of Americans who have guns. 99.99% of these Americans will never go on a shooting spree or murderous rampage. Therefore the guns are not the problem.

Wait, so, like, is this kind of how there are over a billion muslims and 99.99% of them will never suicide bomb people so we should be happy to accept refugees?

By trying to change the topic, are you conceding that your argument was unbelievably garbage and that you lost the first exchange?

DirkDiggles posted...

They all had some sort of mental illness.

Did they really? Are you sure? What study are you basing that off of?
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It's real easy. If this was a gun problem you wouldn't need these outliers. There'd be 5 mass shootings a day. How about doubling down with the skyrocketing crime in areas that do enact strict gun control vs not? You want to apply to receive a kitchen knife? Put your name on a registry because you needed something to cut your food with?
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silentwing26x posted...

By trying to change the topic, are you conceding that your argument was unbelievably garbage and that you lost the first exchange?

No I'm asking if the "basic math" applies to both subjects. If not, I'll need you to further elaborate on your "basic math" so I can understand why it's not valid when applied to muslim refugees.
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Darksaber310 posted...

It's real easy. If this was a gun problem you wouldn't need these outliers. There'd be 5 mass shootings a day. How about doubling down with the skyrocketing crime in areas that do enact strict gun control vs not? You want to apply to receive a kitchen knife? Put your name on a registry because you needed something to cut your food with?

Yeah it's obvious that TC is just a troll or some uninformed 12 year old. I mean has he never heard of Chicago? Has he never heard how many guns and gun owners there are in America? It's like he just crawled out from under a rock or something.

Required mental tests before you are allowed to buy guns?
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Darksaber310 posted...

It's real easy. If this was a gun problem you wouldn't need these outliers. There'd be 5 mass shootings a day. How about doubling down with the skyrocketing crime in areas that do enact strict gun control vs not? You want to apply to receive a kitchen knife? Put your name on a registry because you needed something to cut your food with?

How about you can prove that it's not guns instead of crime (most of which is committed without guns anyway)
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silentwing26x posted...

Darksaber310 posted...

It's real easy. If this was a gun problem you wouldn't need these outliers. There'd be 5 mass shootings a day. How about doubling down with the skyrocketing crime in areas that do enact strict gun control vs not? You want to apply to receive a kitchen knife? Put your name on a registry because you needed something to cut your food with?

Yeah it's obvious that TC is just a troll or some uninformed 12 year old. I mean has he never heard of Chicago? Has he never heard how many guns and gun owners there are in America? It's like he just crawled out from under a rock or something.

Your argument this entire thread is CHICAGGOOOOOO when Chicago has a well documented uncontrolled gun problem.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

By trying to change the topic, are you conceding that your argument was unbelievably garbage and that you lost the first exchange?

No I'm asking if the "basic math" applies to both subjects. If not, I'll need you to further elaborate on your "basic math" so I can understand why it's not valid when applied to muslim refugees.

There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who believe that gays and apostates should be executed. We need to be careful not to import those people into our countries. We should definitely allow Muslims who are reformers so that they can thrive and reform the religion, but in the two populations (gun owners and Muslims) you're much more likely to encounter a Muslim who thinks you should be executed for not being a Muslim than a gun owner who is going to go on a shooting spree.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Darksaber310 posted...

It's real easy. If this was a gun problem you wouldn't need these outliers. There'd be 5 mass shootings a day. How about doubling down with the skyrocketing crime in areas that do enact strict gun control vs not? You want to apply to receive a kitchen knife? Put your name on a registry because you needed something to cut your food with?

How about you can prove that it's not guns instead of crime (most of which is committed without guns anyway)

You were given proof multiple times. Just accept you were wrong and move on.

Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Darksaber310 posted...

It's real easy. If this was a gun problem you wouldn't need these outliers. There'd be 5 mass shootings a day. How about doubling down with the skyrocketing crime in areas that do enact strict gun control vs not? You want to apply to receive a kitchen knife? Put your name on a registry because you needed something to cut your food with?

Yeah it's obvious that TC is just a troll or some uninformed 12 year old. I mean has he never heard of Chicago? Has he never heard how many guns and gun owners there are in America? It's like he just crawled out from under a rock or something.

Your argument this entire thread is CHICAGGOOOOOO when Chicago has a well documented uncontrolled gun problem.

No, my argument that I repeated more than once was:

There are hundreds of millions of guns in America. There are tens of millions of Americans who have guns. 99.99% of these Americans will never go on a shooting spree or murderous rampage. Therefore the guns are not the problem.

silentwing26x posted...

There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who believe that gays and apostates should be executed.

Christians, too. Not relevant.

silentwing26x posted...

We need to be careful not to import those people into our countries. We should definitely allow Muslims who are reformers so that they can thrive and reform the religion, but in the two populations (gun owners and Muslims) you're much more likely to encounter a Muslim who thinks you should be executed for not being a Muslim than a gun owner who is going to go on a shooting spree.

None of this is math at all, never mind "basic math"
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When I'm in public I'm extra cautious my Glock doesn't dislodge itself from my holster and start shooting. Its been depressed lately.

silentwing26x posted...

There are hundreds of millions of guns in America. There are tens of millions of Americans who have guns. 99.99% of these Americans will never go on a shooting spree or murderous rampage. Therefore the guns are not the problem.

You haven't explained why. "Guns are not the problem" does not logically follow "Most gun owners don't kill people"

Everyone already understands most gun owners don't kill people. Most people with mental health problems also don't kill people. Actually any given person killed by someone with mental health issues is most likely to be themselves. Violently ill people are an extremely rare exception even among crippling disorders.

So once again, I didn't ask for the likelihood of being killed by a mass shooter, I asked for a demonstration as to why guns aren't the problem.
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ArchiePeck posted...

It's remarkable how mental health problems exist everywhere in the world yet gun violence is heavily concentrated in countries with easy gun availability!

The problem is looking at gun violence as something unique.

It's not.

Murder is murder.

Thatuser posted...

When I'm in public I'm extra cautious my Glock doesn't dislodge itself from my holster and start shooting. Its been depressed lately.

My little Smith has been very quiet as of late. Should I take him to see someone?
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Christians, too. Not relevant.

Christianity does not allow executing gays/apostates. And that's a deflection. All you're doing in this topic is deflecting every time you're proven wrong.

Tyranthraxus posted...

None of this is math at all, never mind "basic math"

Yes it is. There are Pew polls that show how many Muslims believe you should be executed if you're gay/apostate/etc. Spoiler alert: There are hundreds of millions of them.

Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

There are hundreds of millions of guns in America. There are tens of millions of Americans who have guns. 99.99% of these Americans will never go on a shooting spree or murderous rampage. Therefore the guns are not the problem.

You haven't explained why. "Guns are not the problem" does not logically follow "Most gun owners don't kill people"

Everyone already understands most gun owners don't kill people. Most people with mental health problems also don't kill people. Actually any given person killed by someone with mental health issues is most likely to be themselves. Violently ill people are an extremely rare exception even among crippling disorders.

So once again, I didn't ask for the likelihood of being killed by a mass shooter, I asked for a demonstration as to why guns aren't the problem.

If guns were the problem, you'd expect the vast quantity of guns and gun owners to lend themselves to extremely frequent high casualty shootings each day. Instead we've seen an uptick in these large scale events only in the last 20 or so years, with them becoming more frequent in the last 10 years. It's not the guns.

If it was the guns, the likelihood of being killed by a mass shooter would be huge.

Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Except it's demonstrably not guns. There are hundreds of millions of guns and tens of millions of citizens who have a gun. 99.9% of these people never use their guns to go on shooting sprees.

Basic math shows you that it's not the guns. Did you even pause to think about what you're posting before you posted it?

"Behold" is not a valid proof of anything

But what about "gentlemen... BEHOLD!"
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its not guns its big pharma
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99.9 of gun owners never harm anyone, punishing the majority because of the 1% makes absolutely no sense.
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silentwing26x posted...

Christianity does not allow executing gays/apostates. And that's a deflection. All you're doing in this topic is deflecting every time you're proven wrong.

Incorrect on all counts

silentwing26x posted...

Yes it is. There are Pew polls that show how many Muslims believe you should be executed if you're gay/apostate/etc. Spoiler alert: There are hundreds of millions of them.

Correct but fact remains that 99.99% of them won't suicide bomb anything.
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Except it's demonstrably not guns. There are hundreds of millions of guns and tens of millions of citizens who have a gun. 99.9% of these people never use their guns to go on shooting sprees.

Basic math shows you that it's not the guns. Did you even pause to think about what you're posting before you posted it?

"Behold" is not a valid proof of anything

But what about "gentlemen... BEHOLD!"

Only if your name is Dr. Weird.
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Offworlder1 posted...

99.9 of gun owners never harm anyone, punishing the majority because of the 1% makes absolutely no sense.

I said nothing about punishment. You can acknowledge something is a problem without doing anything about the problem. We do it all the time when people vote in shit bag incumbents in congress.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Incorrect on all counts

No it's not. Christianity literally does not support executing gays/apostates. And you won't find any evidence of any substantial number of Christians supporting that.

The same is not true of Islam.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Correct but fact remains that 99.99% of them won't suicide bomb anything.

So you're fine with importing people who refuse to integrate and who believe gays and apostates should be executed by the state?

Someone "But Obama"d in this topic lol
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Tyranthraxus posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Except it's demonstrably not guns. There are hundreds of millions of guns and tens of millions of citizens who have a gun. 99.9% of these people never use their guns to go on shooting sprees.

Basic math shows you that it's not the guns. Did you even pause to think about what you're posting before you posted it?

"Behold" is not a valid proof of anything

But what about "gentlemen... BEHOLD!"

Only if your name is Dr. Weird.

If that would mean that I am valid proof of various things, then yes, yes I am.
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silentwing26x posted...

No it's not. Christianity literally does not support executing gays/apostates. And you won't find any evidence of any substantial number of Christians supporting that.

The same is not true of Islam.

weird thing is it used to be. christianity had its enlightenment whereas islam regressed.
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E32005 posted...

silentwing26x posted...

No it's not. Christianity literally does not support executing gays/apostates. And you won't find any evidence of any substantial number of Christians supporting that.

The same is not true of Islam.

weird thing is it used to be. christianity had its enlightenment whereas islam regressed.

Probably because the core doctrine in each holy book is wildly different. Christianity always prohibited those things if you look at the core teachings. Islam did not. That is the difference between the two.

No, you just remind everyone that it isn't guns and then wash your hands and declare a job well done.
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ToonLinkWithGun posted...

Thatuser posted...

When I'm in public I'm extra cautious my Glock doesn't dislodge itself from my holster and start shooting. Its been depressed lately.

My little Smith has been very quiet as of late. Should I take him to see someone?

My Mossberg has been aggressive since I brought it home the other day. Cops told me they can only act if, but let's be honest here, when it finally snaps.
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silentwing26x posted...

No it's not. Christianity literally does not support executing gays/apostates. And you won't find any evidence of any substantial number of Christians supporting that.

The same is not true of Islam.

That's just your interpretation of Christianity.

And some Christian countries in Africa have made homosexuality punishable by death. Others that haven't still have anti gay vigilanties that murder gay people and get away with it. This isn't a small amount of people we're talking about. It's a whole country--as state law and not just "I believe."

silentwing26x posted...

So you're fine with importing people who refuse to integrate and who believe gays and apostates should be executed by the state?

Exactly how do you know that the people we're "importing" believe that? Because some other people elsewhere in the world with the same religion believe that?
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