Current Events > If Toph can bend all Earth she should have no problem defeating Gaara

(+) Yeah! (+)

she can control his sand armor
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correct.
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Can she bend the Earth to make it fla t?
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It depends pre timeskip or post timeskip Gaara? Because pre timeskip Gaara has a literal god inside him.
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post war toph yes, not weak ass toph.
that was brought up at some point.

Gaara has unconscious control of his sand and these has sand bending superior to Toph because he can control sand with as little as moving a finger.

That would imply that Toph's bending could actually beat Chakra which is never shown o be as powerful. She can't override the will f another force controlling Garaa's sand (i.e: his mom).
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Duncanwii posted...

It depends pre timeskip or post timeskip Gaara? Because pre timeskip Gaara has a literal god inside him.

No...no he doesn't. He has a relatively weak chakra beast/demon inside of him. One that got held up by a giant frog. And even with this demon's help he lost to Naruto who was pretty trash tier in part 1.
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There's no reason to believe she can trump his chakra infused sand. Especially since it was revealed that literally his mother's spirit is protecting him, so you're saying Toph should be able to control some corporeal entity.

Not to mention Gaara is mostly an air fighter who would be more likely to snipe her from afar, or summon the Shukaku who technically isn't really made up of sand (pre timeskip).
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Terra-enforcer posted...

There's no reason to believe she can trump his chakra infused sand. Especially since it was revealed that literally his mother's spirit is protecting him, so you're saying Toph should be able to control some corporeal entity.

Not to mention Gaara is mostly an air fighter who would be more likely to snipe her from afar, or summon the Shukaku who technically isn't really made up of sand (pre timeskip).

Gaara in character is never ever reverting to summoning Shukaku and definitely not immediately. He literally was a second away from death against Kimimaro and still didn't do it.

Also nothing in chakra-infused or spirit-infused sand is supposed to be special as far as controlling it. And Toph has taken control of other bender's constructs.
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Knowledge_King posted...

Terra-enforcer posted...

There's no reason to believe she can trump his chakra infused sand. Especially since it was revealed that literally his mother's spirit is protecting him, so you're saying Toph should be able to control some corporeal entity.

Not to mention Gaara is mostly an air fighter who would be more likely to snipe her from afar, or summon the Shukaku who technically isn't really made up of sand (pre timeskip).

Gaara in character is never ever reverting to summoning Shukaku and definitely not immediately. He literally was a second away from death against Kimimaro and still didn't do it.

Also nothing in chakra-infused or spirit-infused sand is supposed to be special as far as controlling it. And Toph has taken control of other bender's constructs.

But there is the potential of Shukaku being summoned. The fight with Kimimaro was after Gaara began relying on the beast much less than in the Chunin exams arc.

And I don't see what reason to believe spirit infused sand isn't special. We don't know how bending would interact with such a thing, so it's all just conjecture.
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Terra-enforcer posted...

And I don't see what reason to believe spirit infused sand isn't special. We don't know how bending would interact with such a thing, so it's all just conjecture.

Closest thing I can think of is blood bending. It requires more training, the first user couldn't do it without the moon boost. Humans are over 50% water so the only thing I can think of is an innate spiritual resistance.
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Toph 2 strong
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Terra-enforcer posted...

And I don't see what reason to believe spirit infused sand isn't special. We don't know how bending would interact with such a thing, so it's all just conjecture.

Spirit infused sand has never said to be special in anyway. It's been bypassed and broken the same as his own chakra-controlled sand. And by genin at that (Lee and Sasuke who were maybe chunin level).

And spirit-infused elements are what bending is essentially. And she's overcome other benders so...
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Knowledge_King posted...

Terra-enforcer posted...

And I don't see what reason to believe spirit infused sand isn't special. We don't know how bending would interact with such a thing, so it's all just conjecture.

Spirit infused sand has never said to be special in anyway. It's been bypassed and broken the same as his own chakra-controlled sand. And by genin at that (Lee and Sasuke who were maybe chunin level).

And spirit-infused elements are what bending is essentially. And she's overcome other benders so...

Neither of those characters tried to control his sand which is the question. You still did not prove otherwise since there is no definitive proof one way or another.

I don't see how Toph can come remotely close when even as a child Gaara could summon forest wide tsunamis while Toph's feats weren't nearly as big, and being an air fighter fighting a blind person gives him a huge advantage,
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gaara's sand is infused with chakra/energy. she wouldn't be able to bend it so easily.
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Toph can probably not win this fight.

And I say this as a Toph fan.
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Terra-enforcer posted...

Neither of those characters tried to control his sand which is the question. You still did not prove otherwise since there is no definitive proof one way or another.

I don't see how Toph can come remotely close when even as a child Gaara could summon forest wide tsunamis while Toph's feats weren't nearly as big, and being an air fighter fighting a blind person gives him a huge advantage,

Don't gotta be obtuse. I was pointing out that the spirit controlled sand didn't act any different. To assume it's harder to control is almost baseless.

And Toph has better control than Gaara. She makes intricate cities and such. Might doesn't always make right. Yeah he has way more volume, but she has better control and only needs to control the little amount that can actually hit her, and the amount near him/on his body.

IIRC she's sensed ground/earth in the air before.
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Id pay money for a Avatar vs Naruto fighting game

Toph is not as good with sand as with earth and rocks
remember how she had trouble seeing in the desert, since it's so loose everything "went fuzzy"
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in The Legend Of Korra Toph told Korra to strip naked to get a better feel of the Earth .
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CruelBuffalo posted...

Id pay money for a Avatar vs Naruto fighting game

This too
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Knowledge_King posted...

Terra-enforcer posted...

Neither of those characters tried to control his sand which is the question. You still did not prove otherwise since there is no definitive proof one way or another.

I don't see how Toph can come remotely close when even as a child Gaara could summon forest wide tsunamis while Toph's feats weren't nearly as big, and being an air fighter fighting a blind person gives him a huge advantage,

Don't gotta be obtuse. I was pointing out that the spirit controlled sand didn't act any different. To assume it's harder to control is almost baseless.

And Toph has better control than Gaara. She makes intricate cities and such. Might doesn't always make right. Yeah he has way more volume, but she has better control and only needs to control the little amount that can actually hit her, and the amount near him/on his body.

IIRC she's sensed ground/earth in the air before.

Gaara casually made a large city level barrier while fighting someone at the same time. Suffice to say he definitely has better control. Gaara makes literal people and a giant image of his mother out of sand, so let's not act as if all he does is make globs of nothingness.

And no, Toph cannot sense things in the air. Gaara can beat her without coming close. All he has to do is fight like how he fought against Deidara and snipe her from afar since she'll eventually be overwhelmed as she can't see where the attacks are landing from.
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CmndrHurricane posted...

Toph is not as good with sand as with earth and rocks
remember how she had trouble seeing in the desert, since it's so loose everything "went fuzzy"

This is a good point too. I recall her struggling quite a bit in that arc as well.
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Toph struggled with sand at first, but quickly caught on. By the time they made it to Ba Sing Se Toph was able to easily create a scale model of the entire city out of sand.

I wonder if earth benders can control people, since we are actually partially made of minerals. Is their power based on the minerals in the earth or some control over the idea of 'dirt'?

Also, air benders still seem like the most powerful offensive to me. You can literally just suck all the air out of someone and instantly kill them. Despite fire being the most offensive in theory, it seems the most difficult to kill someone with.

Dash_Harber posted...

I wonder if earth benders can control people, since we are actually partially made of minerals. Is their power based on the minerals in the earth or some control over the idea of 'dirt'?

No. That was the whole point of why Toph or any earth bender can't bend pure platinum. They can only bend the dirt, not the minerals.

Dash_Harber posted...

Also, air benders still seem like the most powerful offensive to me.

That's why the authors made airbenders pacifists. Actually you can see why they made all of the benders live the way they do. Fire doesn't have a stable form and can't be held, so the fire nation is the most technologically advanced to make up for that. The earth benders can build the most stuff, so the earth kingdom is the major hub with high populations, but not as advanced as the fire nation so they can make use of earth bending. Water benders need to be near water sources to flush their abilities so naturally an annually winter climate makes the most sense. They could also live near a lake or something, but that would be too similar to earth benders.

Terra-enforcer posted...

Gaara casually made a large city level barrier while fighting someone at the same time. Suffice to say he definitely has better control. Gaara makes literal people and a giant image of his mother out of sand, so let's not act as if all he does is make globs of nothingness.

And no, Toph cannot sense things in the air. Gaara can beat her without coming close. All he has to do is fight like how he fought against Deidara and snipe her from afar since she'll eventually be overwhelmed as she can't see where the attacks are landing from.

That's not better control, that's power. Toph has better control and can sculpt sand and control it at a much finer level. Gaara let an explosive sneak through his sand.

Toph has dodged and controlled things in the air so...
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Terra-enforcer posted...

Toph cannot sense things in the air.

Creator commentary says she can.

Then why even do the whole feet thing with her?
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Toph can sense things in the air as long as it's Earth.
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GOATTHlEF posted...

She had a lot of trouble sandbending in the desert. It wouldn't be that easy.

this.
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myzz7 posted...

GOATTHlEF posted...

She had a lot of trouble sandbending in the desert. It wouldn't be that easy.

this.

Popcorn_Fairy posted...

Toph struggled with sand at first, but quickly caught on. By the time they made it to Ba Sing Se Toph was able to easily create a scale model of the entire city out of sand.

Ignoring the fact that Gaara's sand is infused with chakra/his mom's will, he can also use other types of jutsu like Wind Style and Magnet Style (and apparently Lightning Style, according to the databook), so...I don't see how Toph could do shit against stuff like that.

And if it's Part 1 Gaara, he also has Shukaku, which...could crush Toph?
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slmcknett posted...

Ignoring the fact that Gaara's sand is infused with chakra/his mom's will, he can also use other types of jutsu like Wind Style and Magnet Style (and apparently Lightning Style, according to the databook), so...I don't see how Toph could do shit against stuff like that.

And if it's Part 1 Gaara, he also has Shukaku, which...could crush Toph?

Bu Gaara never uses that like....ever. Until the novel which is dubiously canon and after the death battle.

And Part 1 Gaara refuses to use Shukaku by the end of it
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Popcorn_Fairy posted...

Toph struggled with sand at first, but quickly caught on. By the time they made it to Ba Sing Se Toph was able to easily create a scale model of the entire city out of sand.

I mean that's nothing to Gaara lol

Knowledge_King posted...

Terra-enforcer posted...

Gaara casually made a large city level barrier while fighting someone at the same time. Suffice to say he definitely has better control. Gaara makes literal people and a giant image of his mother out of sand, so let's not act as if all he does is make globs of nothingness.

And no, Toph cannot sense things in the air. Gaara can beat her without coming close. All he has to do is fight like how he fought against Deidara and snipe her from afar since she'll eventually be overwhelmed as she can't see where the attacks are landing from.

That's not better control, that's power. Toph has better control and can sculpt sand and control it at a much finer level. Gaara let an explosive sneak through his sand.

Toph has dodged and controlled things in the air so...

Creating a human being out of sand isn't power lol. And by "explosion" you mean nuculear bomb level explosion, then sure.

And stop moving goalposts. Toph cannot see things in the air at all, so she won't be able to block everything. This is literally something multiple antagonists have used to take advantage of her.

Knowledge_King posted...

slmcknett posted...

Ignoring the fact that Gaara's sand is infused with chakra/his mom's will, he can also use other types of jutsu like Wind Style and Magnet Style (and apparently Lightning Style, according to the databook), so...I don't see how Toph could do shit against stuff like that.

And if it's Part 1 Gaara, he also has Shukaku, which...could crush Toph?

Bu Gaara never uses that like....ever. Until the novel which is dubiously canon and after the death battle.

And Part 1 Gaara refuses to use Shukaku by the end of it

Ignoring the fact that you've just walked over all the other arguments, you think his answer to "she can control me sand" would be "I should use more sand"??? Of course he'd use the rest of his arsenal if this were the case. But luckily you still have yet to prove how she has more control over him, how she can somehow control Gaara's mom's spirit, or how she can accurately see all of his attacks from the air when the show explicitly proves that she cannot do this.

I don't know if your gimmick is to make bad arguments in versus battles, but never have I seen you make a legitimately good argument. Here, C&GN, or on the DB board .
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