Board 8 > Man, Defenders suuuuuucks.

(+) Yeah! (+)

This whole show was totally phoned in. I didn't watch Iron Fist, but is it really even worse than this?

Netflix Avengers it certainly is not.
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I didn't think it was terrible, but certainly not great.

And yeah, Iron Fist is way worse.

That said, Iron Fist is probably at least as if not more relevant to Defenders than Daredevil S2, so not seeing Iron Fist probably makes Defenders somewhat worse.
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I thought it was good, and I enjoyed Iron Fist as well.
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I was totally on board through the first 5 episodes, and then it just kinda petered out. Very disappointing. It ended with a dumb cliffhanger too. Jessica Jones S2 was good though.
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I thought it was okay. I definitely feel like it struggled with expectations, and that it didn't really know if it wanted to be its own thing or just Netflix Avengers. It does definitely highlight the problem of Matt and Jessica being far more compelling than Luke and especially Danny.

And yes, Iron Fist is worse. Iron Fist is only good when Danny and Colleen, the most unlikeable main characters of anything ever, are not on-screen, unless they are also in a scene with Hogarth.
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Yeah it sucks.
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I mean it's not like scenes with the Meachums are that much better.
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Ward and Harold are genuinely good characters and are the best thing about the show

Joy is a disaster though.
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If I was to watch Defenders just for Jessica, could I get away with not watching any of the other characters' solo shows first? JJ season 1 was great, Daredevil might be decent, but Luke and Iron Fist... I just don't care.

Or can I go straight to Jessica Jones season 2 and completely ignore Defenders without missing anything?
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I don't remember JJ season 2 referencing Defenders at all, not even in passing, so you're good to go right on to that.
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BlackMageJawa posted...

Or can I go straight to Jessica Jones season 2 and completely ignore Defenders without missing anything?

I'm 8 episodes into Season 2 and I don't think it's referenced anything from Defenders yet. All I've noticed so far is one throwaway Iron Fist reference and a small cameo from a Daredevil character.
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Iron Fist's second to last episode is actually my favorite of all of them, but my God for the first half of that season is a wreck. The camera cut coreography is the worst.
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kevwaffles posted...

I mean it's not like scenes with the Meachums are that much better.

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Harold's good throughout, but Ward early on is not that good. He only starts to become good after Danny finds out about Harold being alive. He definitely ends up as the best character, including Harold.
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Generic #4,387 Netflix show only watched by upper class Millionaires such as all of you are.

Yawn.

I think Preston Bot is broken.
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Just started JJ2 and it's astounding how much more there is to this in just one episode than...most of Defenders.
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I think the main problem with the Defenders is that...the formula is too tiring at this point
They try to alter some stuff between the shows, but at the end they are all similar (except for Jessica S1, S2 is more Netflix Marvel bullshit)
2 Seaons of Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist...and then you have Daredevil and Iron Fist sharing the same villains that ALSO appear on Defenders and it's..tiring
The Hand sucks in general too, they lack a leader and it shows
Gao isn't interesting, that "dangerous sadistic" whatshisname was just a pussy, Alexandra disappointed, that teacher guy sucked, White Hat...didn't do anything

Bring me villains like Fisk and Kilgrave not this shit
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Nanis23 posted...

The Hand sucks in general too, they lack a leader and it shows

yeah I think Netflix went "all in" on the Hand as villains and it ended up being a HUGE mistake. the Hand is just not compelling or exciting in these shows.
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Now that I've finished Jessica Jones S2, I'm just gonna pipe in to say it's kind of a snooze. The villain is barely a villain, it's all really low stakes, and the best plotline was completely disconnected from the main plot.
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You know, when I finished Jessica S1 I didn't think too much about it, thought it was decent
But the more time passed, and after I saw Luke Cage, Iron Fist and the Defenders, the more I respected it

It was..different. Very different to the other shows.
It has a villain, with powers. It isn't about fight scenes (well, mostly) but rather an interesting plot with twists.
And Kilgrave always made stuff interesting, every little trick he did was unique

I really looked forward to season 2, but sadly it was kind of disappointing
I mean it isn't Iron Fist bad, it isn't really "bad" at all, but just...skippable
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JJ season 2 is bad? Damn. I loved Season 1 leagues better than the other Netflix Marvel.

JJ S2 was pretty odd in that it didn't really have a badguy, but I still enjoyed it a lot.
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I loved JJ season 2, I found it really anxiety-driven and gut-wrenching at times.
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Should have just been a movie honestly.

Punisher was surprisingly good, but JJ season 2 was boring. Basically 4/5 of the last Marvel Netflix seasons have been pretty bad

Punisher was really good, up there with DD S1 and JJ S1 imo.
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Yep, those are the Top 3.
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I thought the first half of Luke Cage was real strong, but that show absolutely crumbles. The 2nd half is embarrassing.
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DD S1 was okay. I should check out the Punisher. I've stayed away from Iron Fist and the Defenders.

MariaTaylor posted...

Nanis23 posted...

The Hand sucks in general too, they lack a leader and it shows

yeah I think Netflix went "all in" on the Hand as villains and it ended up being a HUGE mistake. the Hand is just not compelling or exciting in these shows.

The Hand was such an uninteresting bore in DD that I never bothered watching Defenders (at least, yet) mainly due to it. There's nothing about it that I cared about at all.

Punisher is the only good thing about DD season 2 mainly because The Hand and everything around it sucks so much. Punisher's a pretty good series in it's own right.
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I like what I've seen of JJ S2, but to be fair I've only seen two episodes.
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It's only kind of in retrospect that I don't really like it. It was fine I guess as I was watching, but then it was over and just kinda totally unfulfilling.
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The Punisher should not be mentioned together with those shows
It's in a league of it's own
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Just watched the first episode of JJ

**** already got real
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The Hand are fine villains. I see this a lot - people say that the Hand just don't work as villains for a myriad of reasons and never could have worked. That isn't the case. The Hand can be great and even is great at different points in the Netflix MCU shows.

But in The Defenders they are just horribly written. Gao is an incompetent underling, the black guy gets beaten off screen somehow, their motivation is super vague. They just want to go home? they want more of the substance, which they've had for hundreds of years already??? The dragon bones just give them more of the substance they already had but just ran out of?? What even was the point of the Black Sky? What the hell were the Chaste? Nothing ever really makes sense. Sigourney Weaver had potential but she didn't live up to it, and they didn't utilize Elektra well at all. Her training was super generic. But they certainly had all the pieces they need. They just didn't think it out properly. It's like they just started filming when they had half a script and never quite worked out why anything was happening.
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Yeah, one thing I'll give Iron Fist over Defenders is that Gao is still pretty great in it.
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About halfway through JJ2 and I'm not seeing the issue.

Well, except Trish sucks, but that was the case in S1 as well.
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The Japanese guy in the Hand in The Defenders was great. Loved how he just refused to speak English the entire season.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Loved how he just refused to speak English the entire season.

yeah that was pretty elite, I gotta admit
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I watched it with my friend and we basically burst out laughing every time he said something.
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murakami had a pretty badass introduction but at the end of the day he was just a less badass nobu. he jobbed in every single fight scene. yet he was supposed to be the authority over nobu. very disappointing when you think about it. like the shredder showing up and getting his ass handed to him more easily than bebop and rocksteady.
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Not a single villain in Defenders had any value. All of The Hand leaders were boring. Elektra has always sucked is the reason DD2 was mediocre. I actually can't think of practically anything in Defenders that I liked. Jokes were bad. Chemistry was bad. Everything was boring.

The hip hop music used in two of the fight scenes was good. That's....the only + for the whole show. I guess Iron Fist was so lame that it was kinda funny. Foggy being on screen is always decent at worst.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Well, except Trish sucks, but that was the case in S1 as well.

Trish is the best supporting character from any of the Defenders shows (except for maybe Claire, but she doesn't count because she supports so many characters).

Although she definitely went downhill in S2.
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Guys, let's just talk about the positives of the future of these shows.

Bullseye. We have to get Bullseye in DD Season 3. And when he kills Karen, it is going to be magic.

But I've seriously been waiting for Bullseye forever. He's my absolute favorite villain, and I really want to see what they do with him. I think they'll do a lot of really good stuff with him because they finally get to go all out crazy with the dude. They've had to reign it in with Kingpin just being a burly brawler, they had to have the stuffy Hand ninjas. But now they get Bullseye. The freaking lunatic who is going to have a total fucking mental breakdown when he can't kill Daredevil. The guy who is just going to murder people on a total whim. Like, he's totally unpredictable and will do whatever he can to kill Daredevil with Kingpin pulling the strings and in this media it will be so interesting, I think.
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^ unless they do what all TV shows do and give you a watered down TV version that doesn't live up to your expectations
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I can't really see Bullseye killing Karen, because it would have too big an impact on Frank. There's no way you can have DD go on a revenge mission without Frank going on that same revenge mission. And I love Frank, but if DD has to share his spotlight with Punisher again, he's just going to suffer.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Not a single villain in Defenders had any value. All of The Hand leaders were boring. Elektra has always sucked is the reason DD2 was mediocre. I actually can't think of practically anything in Defenders that I liked. Jokes were bad. Chemistry was bad. Everything was boring.

The hip hop music used in two of the fight scenes was good. That's....the only + for the whole show. I guess Iron Fist was so lame that it was kinda funny. Foggy being on screen is always decent at worst.

That part when they all meet for the first time in the Hand building was pretty good
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Nanis23 posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

Not a single villain in Defenders had any value. All of The Hand leaders were boring. Elektra has always sucked is the reason DD2 was mediocre. I actually can't think of practically anything in Defenders that I liked. Jokes were bad. Chemistry was bad. Everything was boring.

The hip hop music used in two of the fight scenes was good. That's....the only + for the whole show. I guess Iron Fist was so lame that it was kinda funny. Foggy being on screen is always decent at worst.

That part when they all meet for the first time in the Hand building was pretty good

Yeah it had the hip hop music.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Nanis23 posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

Not a single villain in Defenders had any value. All of The Hand leaders were boring. Elektra has always sucked is the reason DD2 was mediocre. I actually can't think of practically anything in Defenders that I liked. Jokes were bad. Chemistry was bad. Everything was boring.

The hip hop music used in two of the fight scenes was good. That's....the only + for the whole show. I guess Iron Fist was so lame that it was kinda funny. Foggy being on screen is always decent at worst.

That part when they all meet for the first time in the Hand building was pretty good

Yeah it had the hip hop music.

Not only is it probably the best part of Defenders, but the initial confrontation in the boardroom the best moment by far we have yet to get from Danny. Which is kind of sad, really.

It's kind of funny how much Defenders shits all over Danny.
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Yeah, that sequence from the mid-end of episode 3 to the first part of episode 4 (where they are decompressing in the Chinese restaurant) is actually one of my favorite sequences in comics TV. Unfortunately, they couldn't sustain that at all.
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