Current Events > Mega evolutions are the worst thing that ever happened to Pokémon.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Change my mind.
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u first
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Touch posted...

u first

Theyre overdesigned clusterfucks that imo caused a Yu-Gi-Oh style, game-ruining power creep, and theyre a fucking stupid concept in general imo. I mean, Mega Rayquaza was literally so OP that they had to ban him from Ubers. Why did legendary Pokmon need mega evolutions in the first place?!?
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Uh wasn't that only a gen 6 gimmick? I doubt there will be any more new megas.
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--Typhlosion-- posted...

Uh wasn't that only a gen 6 gimmick? I doubt there will be any more new megas.

Sun/Moon is gen 7 & IIRC has mega evolutions too.
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Mega evolution has little to do with the power creep.

Yeah, Mega Ray is ridiculously OP, He's banned from official and unofficial formats so who gives a shit

A lot of megas gave pokemon who would never see any real competitive use something more competitively viable.

You still give up an item slot for it.
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"competitive pokemon"
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When pokefusions gonna happen tho
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I'm okay with them except for cases where they gave them to a Pokemon that still had room for a regular evolution or two.

A couple that come to mind are Absol and Mawile. No reason those couldn't have been turned into two-stage pokes.
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HitTheGroundWal posted...

I'm okay with them except for cases where they gave them to a Pokemon that still had room for a regular evolution or two.

A couple that come to mind are Absol and Mawile. No reason those couldn't have been turned into two-stage pokes.

Mawile's mega is pretty good tho.

I wish Mega Absol got Fairy typing. Then it might actually be able to switch in one things and not immediately die.
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Nah, that's Z-Moves.
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Gafemage posted...

Theyre overdesigned clusterfucks that imo caused a Yu-Gi-Oh style, game-ruining power creep

Don't play ubers then.

That's where all the big legendaries are anyway.

Problem solved.
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MegaRay was banned partially because he didn't need a Mega stone to megavolve, breaking one of the two checks on Mega Evolution.
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When Mega's were first rumored I thought it would be a good thing because they could make weak, forgotten pokemon relevant again. Didn't think they'd go so overboard with them though.

Worst thing that ever happened was putting the daycare in the post-game.
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AlephZero posted...

"competitive pokemon"

How does it exist with the amount of rng in it?
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Shotgunnova posted...

Worst thing that ever happened was putting the daycare in the post-game.

Did XY do that?

I know ORAS had a daycare at Battle Resort, but it still kept the daycare Route 11.
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I think Black/White 2 did that. 'Twas a bad time, friend.
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They ditched it with the recent gen for Z moves. Its pretty lame, they should've stuck with it

Fire Red/Leaf Green did it, because it was a remake that was far, far too close to the originals.

B2/W2 did it because they moved the early game from B/W to the postgame, which had the unfortunate side effect of moving the daycare to the end as well

Punctus_Pilot posted...

Fire Red/Leaf Green did it, because it was a remake that was far, far too close to the originals.

B2/W2 did it because they moved the early game from B/W to the postgame, which had the unfortunate side effect of moving the daycare to the end as well

I'm pretty sure there's still a daycare on the route south of Cerulean in FR/LG, right?

monkeysample posted...

Punctus_Pilot posted...

Fire Red/Leaf Green did it, because it was a remake that was far, far too close to the originals.

B2/W2 did it because they moved the early game from B/W to the postgame, which had the unfortunate side effect of moving the daycare to the end as well

I'm pretty sure there's still a daycare on the route south of Cerulean in FR/LG, right?

If I recall correctly, that one could only take one Pokmon at a time so no breeding there.
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refmon posted...

How does it exist with the amount of rng in it?

Really the only RNG that matters is <100% accuracy moves.

Which you just have to deal with. Unless you have something which boosts accuracy.
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BLAKUboy posted...

Nah, that's Z-Moves.

This. Unskipable ridiculous broken messes.
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LinksLiege posted...

refmon posted...

How does it exist with the amount of rng in it?

Really the only RNG that matters is <100% accuracy moves.

Which you just have to deal with. Unless you have something which boosts accuracy.

crits and status effects?
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horrific power creep was already seeping in with basic Pokemon back in at least BW and the general imbalance of regular Pokemon is a much bigger issue than Mega Evolution

the real problem is how garbage the regions are now in single player

refmon posted...

AlephZero posted...

"competitive pokemon"

How does it exist with the amount of rng in it?

Number crunching and people figuring out stuff from experience.

Like, with a certain set, I know that my life orb let's say terrakion should be able to 100% of the tune 2hk these Pokemon with any standard competitive set (with a 4% chance of a 1hk), with the exceptions being if I miss or if they manage to remove my hold item. There's zero chance X Pokemon will ever have a +defense nature and full investments in it and HP, they'd have to distribute some to special defense but if they did do that non viable build, it would still be a 100% 3hk after stealth rocks, barring leftovers.

So it's basically math: the game. Except with Pokemon instead of something boring like baseball.
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Eh, Mega-Evos are fine conceptually. Like, you can seriously use pokemon like Pidgeot and Beedrill now. They gave Venusaur and especially Charizard new life(sorry Blastoise. Considering only MegaStoise and Clawncher have Mega Launcher, I can't fathom why it doesn't apply to Hydro Pump).
That said, some Mega designs are pretty bad. Like Sharpedo. Good Christ, what were they thinking?

refmon posted...

crits and status effects?

Oh yeah, I forgot about those.

They're just a part of it. There are very few competitions that carry literally zero random chance.
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I don't think Mega evolutions are a problem. What's really killing Pokemon for me is how dull the single player has become.
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Second_Chances posted...

horrific power creep was already seeping in with basic Pokemon back in at least BW and the general imbalance of regular Pokemon is a much bigger issue than Mega Evolution

the real problem is how garbage the regions are now in single player

The first impression of gen 5... So many things with large base stat pools. But compared to gen 1 things, less TM access. Plenty of breeding options.

The darn fetus though, that thing ruled the first like three months without much issue.
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monkeysample posted...

When Mega's were first rumored I thought it would be a good thing because they could make weak, forgotten pokemon relevant again. Didn't think they'd go so overboard with them though.

I don't really see why this is. I've never played a Pokemon that has had them, so I know next to nothing about them other than they exist in the games now and are like SSJ versions of the Pokemon

But all of them can Mega Evolve, right? So a base xPokemon is still going to be better than that base yPokemon when they're both Mega Evolved, right?

The only real advantage I see is if you can only Mega Evolve a few of them in your game or if you have to have a Held Item and it's random or something like that, or why wouldn't they all be Mega? I know you have to hold a Mega Stone to do it, from what I read in this topic, right? So I'll assume there only a few Mega Stones to go around and they're gong once used or the Mega Evolution isn't something that stays once you remove the Mega Stone, and then there could be just better Held Items for the more powerful Pokemon to have and then you can throw a weak one the Mega Stone to make up for the lack of a held Item

Hope that makes sense, lol
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Nah Megas are cool, especially when used on weaker Pokemon, and actually make the weaker Pokemon better (looking at you fucking mega audino).
Z moves are dumb though.
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Bad_Mojo posted...

monkeysample posted...

When Mega's were first rumored I thought it would be a good thing because they could make weak, forgotten pokemon relevant again. Didn't think they'd go so overboard with them though.

I don't really see why this is. I've never played a Pokemon that has had them, so I know next to nothing about them other than they exist in the games now and are like SSJ versions of the Pokemon

But all of them can Mega Evolve, right? So a base xPokemon is still going to be better than that base yPokemon when they're both Mega Evolved, right?

The only real advantage I see is if you can only Mega Evolve a few of them in your game or if you have to have a Held Item and it's random or something like that, or why wouldn't they all be Mega? I know you have to hold a Mega Stone to do it, from what I read in this topic, right? So I'll assume there only a few Mega Stones to go around and they're gong once used or the Mega Evolution isn't something that stays once you remove the Mega Stone, and then there could be just better Held Items for the more powerful Pokemon to have and then you can throw a weak one the Mega Stone to make up for the lack of a held Item

Hope that makes sense, lol

Not all Pokemon have Mega Evolutions. And the Mega Stone does indeed take up an item slot.
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Bad_Mojo posted...

But all of them can Mega Evolve, right?

What? No, there's only 48 Megas and 4 of those are Charizard and Mewtwo. Groundon and Kyogre also have Primal Reversions which are similar but separate from Megas.

I'm not certain what the rest of your post is saying, but Mega Stones are held items and you can only have one Mega per battle. They revert upon fainting or the battle ending.
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there's only like thirty or forty Pokemon with Mega Evolutions right now, you can only use one in battle, and it uses up a held item slot so some of the Pokemon with them are actually better off just having a regular held item

though there are some Legendaries with Mega-like transformations like Groudon/Kyogre's Primal Reversion and Necrozma's Ultra Burst that can also be used when you use a Mega, and Rayquaza's Mega doesn't use a held item but rather requires it to know a certain move

Mega evolutions are the most beautiful thing that ever happened to Absol.
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LinksLiege posted...

refmon posted...

crits and status effects?

Oh yeah, I forgot about those.

They're just a part of it. There are very few competitions that carry literally zero random chance.

Crits are kind of ignorable. The main thing crits do is they ignore boosts, but outside of Calm Mind or the very rare Curse no one is really buffing up their defenses for that matter. A crit might take a 2HKO into a 1HKO, but that situation might happen once out of a 100 games in which in the long term that won't matter.

Status effects are bit more important. Things like scald have a good chance to cause a burn which can completely screw over physical attackers. Serene Grace Flinch builds have 60% to make you unable to attack, but that's pretty much jirachi or togekiss. Paralyze is less common now due to the speed nerf and t-wave no longer being 100% chance. Plus WoW is preferred to shut down Physical attackers anyways.

Really you weren't wrong. Status and Crits are pretty ignorable atm, outside of a few very niche situations.
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I honestly prefer Digimon's evolution system for this reason. They can pretty much add new digivolutions ad infinitum, it's great.

The region exclusive Pokmon is at least better than Mega-Evolution IMO and there's nothing stopping them adding a new vendor into a Pokmon Center that can convert Pokmon to different region versions or give the day care region-specific areas that transforms the Pokmon, it'll probably happen somewhere down the line

I'd love new evolutions for pre-existing Pokmon but to prevent power-creep they would probably need to be side-grades as opposed to upgrades and it would need some kind of user-input before it could happen (because cancelling evolution every level-up would be tedious). I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they just end up copying Digimon and you use an in-game terminal to decide the evolution path because they're just gonna corner themselves into loads of weird mechanics if they keep going with items like Megastones.
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Second_Chances posted...

there's only like thirty or forty Pokemon with Mega Evolutions right now, you can only use one in battle, and it uses up a held item slot so some of the Pokemon with them are actually better off just having a regular held item

This is all I needed to know. Thank you, everyone, that replied.
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IVs/randomly generated nature+ability is the worst thing that happened to pokemon

So much fucking checks to go through just to get a worthwhile pokemon.

Tmaster148 posted...

Really you weren't wrong. Status and Crits are pretty ignorable atm, outside of a few very niche situations.

I think I ignored them at first because there are strategies which are indeed built around them, which takes them out of that category somewhat for me.
It's one thing if it's just, you're casting Thunder and you hope it's hits. It's another if getting a burn/paralysis off is a focal point of your strategy. At least to me.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

IVs/randomly generated nature+ability is the worst thing that happened to pokemon

So much fucking checks to go through just to get a worthwhile pokemon.

This is why I don't bother with playing competitive on the games themselves. I gave up after trying to make one pokemon the proper way.

Showdown is all I need and everything I want.
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

IVs/randomly generated nature+ability is the worst thing that happened to pokemon

So much fucking checks to go through just to get a worthwhile pokemon.

If I cared about Competitive Play this would no doubt really, really piss me off. But I just play the game, and never really online. The

.. . .

Holy shit, I just right now remembered something I totally forgot about. What happened to that Pokemon Tower Defense game? I don't even think it was by Nintendo, just some online program/game that was really fun to play
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HitTheGroundWal posted...

I'm okay with them except for cases where they gave them to a Pokemon that still had room for a regular evolution or two.

A couple that come to mind are Absol and Mawile. No reason those couldn't have been turned into two-stage pokes.

Mawile's mega is pretty good tho.

I didn't say it shouldn't be there. I said it should be a regular evolution.
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