Current Events > Steam is looking grim for indie developers. 82% games make less than min. wage

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Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/25/18 11:06:04 PM #52:	@Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful. --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898495464] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote>@Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 03/25/18 11:17:52 PM #53:	Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... @Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful. That's because Switch fanboys will eat up any indie game that comes out for some reason --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:898496062] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>@Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful.</quote> That's because Switch fanboys will eat up any indie game that comes out for some reason</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/25/18 11:19:03 PM #54:	AvantgardeAClue posted... Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... @Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful. That's because Switch fanboys will eat up any indie game that comes out for some reason http://www.metacritic.com/game/switch/steamworld-dig-2 Yeah, an 8.8 average is not worth a purchase. =/ --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898496109] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>@Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful.</quote> That's because Switch fanboys will eat up any indie game that comes out for some reason</quote> http://www.metacritic.com/game/switch/steamworld-dig-2 Yeah, an 8.8 average is not worth a purchase. =/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vyrulisse 03/25/18 11:20:30 PM #55:	AvantgardeAClue posted... Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... @Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful. That's because Switch fanboys will eat up any indie game that comes out for some reason Or maybe a lot of indie games would do better on a mobile platform. --- http://i.imgur.com/6VeX04D.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW_V1kG6mRc <cite>Vyrulisse posted [p:898496185] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>@Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful.</quote> That's because Switch fanboys will eat up any indie game that comes out for some reason</quote> Or maybe a lot of indie games would do better on a mobile platform.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YellowSUV 03/25/18 11:20:44 PM #56:	There won't be another video game crash like 1983. Video games are too ingrained in culture now. That said, I could see there being a contraction once people realize making a video games isn't an easy way to make money. --- We all live in a Yellow SUV! a Yellow SUV! <cite>YellowSUV posted [p:898496191] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote>There won't be another video game crash like 1983. Video games are too ingrained in culture now. That said, I could see there being a contraction once people realize making a video games isn't an easy way to make money.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AvantgardeAClue 03/25/18 11:20:53 PM #57:	Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... AvantgardeAClue posted... Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... @Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful. That's because Switch fanboys will eat up any indie game that comes out for some reason http://www.metacritic.com/game/switch/steamworld-dig-2 Yeah, an 8.8 average is not worth a purchase. =/ What I'm saying is that it being a bad game wouldn't have likely changed anything because "hurr the Switch is getting support therefore let me support this game blindly" has been a fanboy mantra for a while now. --- Sometimes I say things and I'm not voice acting. <cite>AvantgardeAClue posted [p:898496201] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>AvantgardeAClue posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>@Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful.</quote> That's because Switch fanboys will eat up any indie game that comes out for some reason</quote> http://www.metacritic.com/game/switch/steamworld-dig-2 Yeah, an 8.8 average is not worth a purchase. =/</quote> What I'm saying is that it being a bad game wouldn't have likely changed anything because "hurr the Switch is getting support therefore let me support this game blindly" has been a fanboy mantra for a while now.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AsianFury2020 03/25/18 11:21:00 PM #58:	__Cam__ posted... Mystery_Mission posted... indie games are garbage 99% of the time --- Kaze no yo ni Hayaku! <cite>AsianFury2020 posted [p:898496210] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>__Cam__ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mystery_Mission posted...</cite> <quote>indie games are garbage 99% of the time</quote></quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/25/18 11:23:20 PM #59:	Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... The article is about Steam sure, but why are you using an example where the game in question can be purchased on many other gaming platforms? SWD2 may have done exceptionally well when you compare all available platforms. Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... @Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful. Because we're specifically talking about Steam and being a success on that platform. I'm not entirely sure people completely ignored the game on Steam because it was on Switch. I think it's more about the Steam as a storefront than the games themselves. In a similar manner I think indies are succeeding on the Switch because it's easier to stick out there. It's pretty easy to keep tabs on what comes out every week and adding them to watch lists. Even that could be an entirely different situation in a year or two. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898496335] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>The article is about Steam sure, but why are you using an example where the game in question can be purchased on many other gaming platforms? SWD2 may have done exceptionally well when you compare all available platforms.</quote> <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>@Darmik https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/kzgq7y/steamworld-dig-2-sales-switch A huge amount of copies have sold on the Switch in comparison to Steam. It has been quite successful.</quote> Because we're specifically talking about Steam and being a success on that platform. I'm not entirely sure people completely ignored the game on Steam because it was on Switch. I think it's more about the Steam as a storefront than the games themselves. In a similar manner I think indies are succeeding on the Switch because it's easier to stick out there. It's pretty easy to keep tabs on what comes out every week and adding them to watch lists. Even that could be an entirely different situation in a year or two.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Darmik 03/25/18 11:32:20 PM #61:	http://store.steampowered.com/app/551770/ECHO/ Look at this game. Not pixel graphics. Has unique gameplay. I believe it's from some Hitman developers. Got solid reviews on sites like Gamespot and Destructoid. http://steamspy.com/app/551770 It sold 16,000. I don't think the developers of that game can live off that. This is a random game I heard of and was interested in. I'm sure this story is repeating constantly. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898496785] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote>http://store.steampowered.com/app/551770/ECHO/ Look at this game. Not pixel graphics. Has unique gameplay. I believe it's from some Hitman developers. Got solid reviews on sites like Gamespot and Destructoid. http://steamspy.com/app/551770 It sold 16,000. I don't think the developers of that game can live off that. This is a random game I heard of and was interested in. I'm sure this story is repeating constantly.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/25/18 11:32:37 PM #62:	Wow, you are so short sighted. The game sold especially well on Switch because it came first to Switch, as opposed to Steam. It has nothing to do with Steam not doing good enough "advertising" about it. It had plenty of word of mouth and amazing reviews. What Steam didn't have was first dibs on the game. --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898496795] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote>Wow, you are so short sighted. The game sold especially well on Switch because it came first to Switch, as opposed to Steam. It has nothing to do with Steam not doing good enough "advertising" about it. It had plenty of word of mouth and amazing reviews. What Steam didn't have was first dibs on the game.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/25/18 11:34:37 PM #63:	Darmik posted... http://store.steampowered.com/app/551770/ECHO/ Look at this game. Not pixel graphics. Has unique gameplay. I believe it's from some Hitman developers. Got solid reviews on sites like Gamespot and Destructoid. http://steamspy.com/app/551770 It sold 16,000. I don't think the developers of that game can live off that. This is a random game I heard of and was interested in. I'm sure this story is repeating constantly. You know how many copies it would have sold in retail? None. I work in a game store, and I can 100% tell you if that was on the shelf with the other PS4 and XB1 titles, it wouldn't sell any. Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, and at least that had word of mouth and an extremely successful Kickstarter campaign. This Echo game? It has nothing. --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898496895] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote>http://store.steampowered.com/app/551770/ECHO/ Look at this game. Not pixel graphics. Has unique gameplay. I believe it's from some Hitman developers. Got solid reviews on sites like Gamespot and Destructoid. http://steamspy.com/app/551770 It sold 16,000. I don't think the developers of that game can live off that. This is a random game I heard of and was interested in. I'm sure this story is repeating constantly.</quote> You know how many copies it would have sold in retail? None. I work in a game store, and I can 100% tell you if that was on the shelf with the other PS4 and XB1 titles, it wouldn't sell any. Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, and at least that had word of mouth and an extremely successful Kickstarter campaign. This Echo game? It has nothing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/25/18 11:36:24 PM #64:	Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... Wow, you are so short sighted. The game sold especially well on Switch because it came first to Switch, as opposed to Steam. It has nothing to do with Steam not doing good enough "advertising" about it. It had plenty of word of mouth and amazing reviews. What Steam didn't have was first dibs on the game. How am I shortsighted? Super Meat Boy selling a lot on 360 didn't mean it flopped on Steam right? This game has a lot of exposure and good word of mouth. Yet it still flopped on Steam. That's the worry for developers here. We have developers of games like Blossom Tales who outright have said that if it wasn't for the game selling on Switch they'd close down. Switch eShop is a good place for indies right now. Nobody is arguing against that. The discussion is about Steam. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898496960] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>Wow, you are so short sighted. The game sold especially well on Switch because it came first to Switch, as opposed to Steam. It has nothing to do with Steam not doing good enough "advertising" about it. It had plenty of word of mouth and amazing reviews. What Steam didn't have was first dibs on the game.</quote> How am I shortsighted? Super Meat Boy selling a lot on 360 didn't mean it flopped on Steam right? This game has a lot of exposure and good word of mouth. Yet it still flopped on Steam. That's the worry for developers here. We have developers of games like Blossom Tales who outright have said that if it wasn't for the game selling on Switch they'd close down. Switch eShop is a good place for indies right now. Nobody is arguing against that. The discussion is about Steam.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EverDownward 03/25/18 11:37:19 PM #65:	OwlRammer posted... they are moving to switch now This --- "And you can't tell me what my spirit tells me isn't true, can you?" <cite>EverDownward posted [p:898496994] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>OwlRammer posted...</cite> <quote>they are moving to switch now</quote> This</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/25/18 11:39:02 PM #66:	Darmik posted... Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... Wow, you are so short sighted. The game sold especially well on Switch because it came first to Switch, as opposed to Steam. It has nothing to do with Steam not doing good enough "advertising" about it. It had plenty of word of mouth and amazing reviews. What Steam didn't have was first dibs on the game. How am I shortsighted? Super Meat Boy selling a lot on 360 didn't mean it flopped on Steam right? This game has a lot of exposure and good word of mouth. Yet it still flopped on Steam. That's the worry for developers here. We have developers of games like Blossom Tales who outright have said that if it wasn't for the game selling on Switch they'd close down. Switch eShop is a good place for indies right now. Nobody is arguing against that. The discussion is about Steam. You are expecting all indie games to sell as well as arguably the most prolific indie game of the last 10 years, in a market that is now swimming with hundreds of games released every month? Are you a fucking loon? --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898497086] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>Wow, you are so short sighted. The game sold especially well on Switch because it came first to Switch, as opposed to Steam. It has nothing to do with Steam not doing good enough "advertising" about it. It had plenty of word of mouth and amazing reviews. What Steam didn't have was first dibs on the game.</quote> How am I shortsighted? Super Meat Boy selling a lot on 360 didn't mean it flopped on Steam right? This game has a lot of exposure and good word of mouth. Yet it still flopped on Steam. That's the worry for developers here. We have developers of games like Blossom Tales who outright have said that if it wasn't for the game selling on Switch they'd close down. Switch eShop is a good place for indies right now. Nobody is arguing against that. The discussion is about Steam.</quote> You are expecting all indie games to sell as well as arguably the most prolific indie game of the last 10 years, in a market that is now swimming with hundreds of games released every month? Are you a fucking loon?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
halomonkey1_3_5 03/25/18 11:44:09 PM #67:	the best selling games on Steam from last year are PUBG and a bunch of games that are multiple years old not surprising that it's hard for new games to get exposure when games-as-a-service is keeping so many "old" games in the spotlight for months and years after they launch --- Billy Mays: July 20, 1958 - June 28, 2009 The Greatest <cite>halomonkey1_3_5 posted [p:898497337] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote>the best selling games on Steam from last year are PUBG and a bunch of games that are multiple years old not surprising that it's hard for new games to get exposure when games-as-a-service is keeping so many "old" games in the spotlight for months and years after they launch</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YellowSUV 03/25/18 11:48:14 PM #68:	Another thing to think about is the dawn of loot box games. I'm sure there are tons of people who just play one game for free and just keep going to unlock new characters and skins. That wasn't really an option 10 years ago. --- We all live in a Yellow SUV! a Yellow SUV! <cite>YellowSUV posted [p:898497564] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote>Another thing to think about is the dawn of loot box games. I'm sure there are tons of people who just play one game for free and just keep going to unlock new characters and skins. That wasn't really an option 10 years ago.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/25/18 11:48:53 PM #69:	Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... Darmik posted... http://store.steampowered.com/app/551770/ECHO/ Look at this game. Not pixel graphics. Has unique gameplay. I believe it's from some Hitman developers. Got solid reviews on sites like Gamespot and Destructoid. http://steamspy.com/app/551770 It sold 16,000. I don't think the developers of that game can live off that. This is a random game I heard of and was interested in. I'm sure this story is repeating constantly. You know how many copies it would have sold in retail? None. I work in a game store, and I can 100% tell you if that was on the shelf with the other PS4 and XB1 titles, it wouldn't sell any. Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, and at least that had word of mouth and an extremely successful Kickstarter campaign. This Echo game? It has nothing. It's not a retail game. It's a digital game selling for $25. This game is one of the 80% of games on Steam that flop. Why don't we look at some games that released last month. I'll look into the sales for each game here listed that I haven't personally heard of. http://twinfinite.net/2018/03/7-best-steam-games-of-february-2018/6/ A Case of Distrust http://steamspy.com/app/717610 Owners: 1,946 Where the Water Tastes Like Wine http://steamspy.com/app/447120 Owners: 5,560 Attack of the Earthlings http://steamspy.com/app/621930 Owners: 7,228 Presumably Into the Breach, FFXII and Kingdom Come Deliverance sold well. But these games are apparently notable enough to make this article. Yet these sales are absolutely pitiful. Nobody could live off that. People spent years making those games. I'm not exactly looking hard to find examples. This was just last month in an article that featured 7 games. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898497590] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote>http://store.steampowered.com/app/551770/ECHO/ Look at this game. Not pixel graphics. Has unique gameplay. I believe it's from some Hitman developers. Got solid reviews on sites like Gamespot and Destructoid. http://steamspy.com/app/551770 It sold 16,000. I don't think the developers of that game can live off that. This is a random game I heard of and was interested in. I'm sure this story is repeating constantly.</quote> You know how many copies it would have sold in retail? None. I work in a game store, and I can 100% tell you if that was on the shelf with the other PS4 and XB1 titles, it wouldn't sell any. Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, and at least that had word of mouth and an extremely successful Kickstarter campaign. This Echo game? It has nothing.</quote> It's not a retail game. It's a digital game selling for $25. This game is one of the 80% of games on Steam that flop. Why don't we look at some games that released last month. I'll look into the sales for each game here listed that I haven't personally heard of. http://twinfinite.net/2018/03/7-best-steam-games-of-february-2018/6/ A Case of Distrust http://steamspy.com/app/717610 Owners: 1,946 Where the Water Tastes Like Wine http://steamspy.com/app/447120 Owners: 5,560 Attack of the Earthlings http://steamspy.com/app/621930 Owners: 7,228 Presumably Into the Breach, FFXII and Kingdom Come Deliverance sold well. But these games are apparently notable enough to make this article. Yet these sales are absolutely pitiful. Nobody could live off that. People spent years making those games. I'm not exactly looking hard to find examples. This was just last month in an article that featured 7 games.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/25/18 11:50:23 PM #70:	Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... Darmik posted... Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... Wow, you are so short sighted. The game sold especially well on Switch because it came first to Switch, as opposed to Steam. It has nothing to do with Steam not doing good enough "advertising" about it. It had plenty of word of mouth and amazing reviews. What Steam didn't have was first dibs on the game. How am I shortsighted? Super Meat Boy selling a lot on 360 didn't mean it flopped on Steam right? This game has a lot of exposure and good word of mouth. Yet it still flopped on Steam. That's the worry for developers here. We have developers of games like Blossom Tales who outright have said that if it wasn't for the game selling on Switch they'd close down. Switch eShop is a good place for indies right now. Nobody is arguing against that. The discussion is about Steam. You are expecting all indie games to sell as well as arguably the most prolific indie game of the last 10 years, in a market that is now swimming with hundreds of games released every month? Are you a fucking loon? Where did I say that? If people aren't expecting it and if you aren't expecting it what exactly is your issue here? That's the entire point of the article and speech. I'm not expecting all indie games to sell well. But expecting only 20% to sell well isn't going to be feasible for the majority of indie developers out there. That's the only point being raised. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898497666] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>Wow, you are so short sighted. The game sold especially well on Switch because it came first to Switch, as opposed to Steam. It has nothing to do with Steam not doing good enough "advertising" about it. It had plenty of word of mouth and amazing reviews. What Steam didn't have was first dibs on the game.</quote> How am I shortsighted? Super Meat Boy selling a lot on 360 didn't mean it flopped on Steam right? This game has a lot of exposure and good word of mouth. Yet it still flopped on Steam. That's the worry for developers here. We have developers of games like Blossom Tales who outright have said that if it wasn't for the game selling on Switch they'd close down. Switch eShop is a good place for indies right now. Nobody is arguing against that. The discussion is about Steam.</quote> You are expecting all indie games to sell as well as arguably the most prolific indie game of the last 10 years, in a market that is now swimming with hundreds of games released every month? Are you a fucking loon?</quote> Where did I say that? If people aren't expecting it and if you aren't expecting it what exactly is your issue here? That's the entire point of the article and speech. I'm not expecting all indie games to sell well. But expecting only 20% to sell well isn't going to be feasible for the majority of indie developers out there. That's the only point being raised.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/25/18 11:51:35 PM #71:	That article featured 7 games some guy liked. I can list off a bunch of games I like that aren't going to light the sales on fire. Is Steam/Valve somehow responsible for the 800+ games a month released on their platform? All they do is provide an avenue for people to get games. They are not in any way responsible for ensuring those games do well, paying the bills for the creators, etc. etc. When you have 800+ games a month released, 750 of those will inevitably be failures. If not failures, at least not do well enough to keep the doors open. --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898497724] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote>That article featured 7 games some guy liked. I can list off a bunch of games I like that aren't going to light the sales on fire. Is Steam/Valve somehow responsible for the 800+ games a month released on their platform? All they do is provide an avenue for people to get games. They are not in any way responsible for ensuring those games do well, paying the bills for the creators, etc. etc. When you have 800+ games a month released, 750 of those will inevitably be failures. If not failures, at least not do well enough to keep the doors open.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
chill02 03/25/18 11:52:47 PM #72:	90% of everything is garbage, so the system works --- Ave, true to Caesar. <cite>chill02 posted [p:898497802] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote>90% of everything is garbage, so the system works</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/25/18 11:54:10 PM #73:	Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... I can list off a bunch of games I like that aren't going to light the sales on fire. And that isn't a bad thing? If these games aren't successful they're not gonna be made anymore. Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... Is Steam/Valve somehow responsible for the 800+ games a month released on their platform? All they do is provide an avenue for people to get games. They are not in any way responsible for ensuring those games do well, paying the bills for the creators, etc. etc. And? Where did I say otherwise? Where am I blaming Steam? Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... When you have 800+ games a month released, 750 of those will inevitably be failures. If not failures, at least not do well enough to keep the doors open. Don't you agree that's a grim reality for indie developers using Steam as their platform? --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898497871] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>I can list off a bunch of games I like that aren't going to light the sales on fire. </quote> And that isn't a bad thing? If these games aren't successful they're not gonna be made anymore. <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>Is Steam/Valve somehow responsible for the 800+ games a month released on their platform? All they do is provide an avenue for people to get games. They are not in any way responsible for ensuring those games do well, paying the bills for the creators, etc. etc. </quote> And? Where did I say otherwise? Where am I blaming Steam? <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>When you have 800+ games a month released, 750 of those will inevitably be failures. If not failures, at least not do well enough to keep the doors open.</quote> Don't you agree that's a grim reality for indie developers using Steam as their platform?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/25/18 11:54:10 PM #74:	Darmik posted... Where did I say that? If people aren't expecting it and if you aren't expecting it what exactly is your issue here? That's the entire point of the article and speech. I'm not expecting all indie games to sell well. But expecting only 20% to sell well isn't going to be feasible for the majority of indie developers out there. That's the only point being raised. Ah, OK then. It seemed like people were somehow blaming Steam for the failure of these developers. Steam is just a platform, and it is the choice of developers to use the service knowing that 80% of the games put out there are failures. --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898497872] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote>Where did I say that? If people aren't expecting it and if you aren't expecting it what exactly is your issue here? That's the entire point of the article and speech. I'm not expecting all indie games to sell well. But expecting only 20% to sell well isn't going to be feasible for the majority of indie developers out there. That's the only point being raised.</quote> Ah, OK then. It seemed like people were somehow blaming Steam for the failure of these developers. Steam is just a platform, and it is the choice of developers to use the service knowing that 80% of the games put out there are failures.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/25/18 11:58:12 PM #75:	Darmik posted... Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... When you have 800+ games a month released, 750 of those will inevitably be failures. If not failures, at least not do well enough to keep the doors open. Don't you agree that's a grim reality for indie developers using Steam as their platform? How many of these games would even have been made and released if not for Steam? Yeah, it's scary to be a developer right now and look at Steam as your only option for release. That's why successful developers aren't limiting themselves just to Steam. Or, if that is their only avenue, they are sending copies of their game to anybody who will play them. That's how that stupid Super Seducer game was successful... the creators literally sent codes to every Youtuber imaginable, knowing that some would play them for the sheer cringe and idiocy... but it worked. --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898498066] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>When you have 800+ games a month released, 750 of those will inevitably be failures. If not failures, at least not do well enough to keep the doors open.</quote> Don't you agree that's a grim reality for indie developers using Steam as their platform?</quote> How many of these games would even have been made and released if not for Steam? Yeah, it's scary to be a developer right now and look at Steam as your only option for release. That's why successful developers aren't limiting themselves just to Steam. Or, if that is their only avenue, they are sending copies of their game to anybody who will play them. That's how that stupid Super Seducer game was successful... the creators literally sent codes to every Youtuber imaginable, knowing that some would play them for the sheer cringe and idiocy... but it worked.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
meestermj 03/25/18 11:58:16 PM #76:	Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, Not sure if srs. I also work in a games store, and we literally can't keep Kingdom Come in stock. It's flying off the shelf. --- Psn: beastlytoast Left-handed fire-slapsies leave me feeling confused about life. - Merydia <cite>meestermj posted [p:898498070] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, </quote> Not sure if srs. I also work in a games store, and we literally can't keep Kingdom Come in stock. It's flying off the shelf.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/25/18 11:58:26 PM #77:	I mean just to clarify it's a literal indie developer talking in front of other game developers about this stuff. This stuff should be talked about and developers should be warned. Steam isn't the goldmine it was 5+ years ago. You've gotta hit a homerun to stick out and succeed. I bet similar stuff is happening to the PS4 and Xbox One now. It will happen to Switch eventually too. I certainly don't envy any indie developer unless they're one guy who already got their big break. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898498080] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote>I mean just to clarify it's a literal indie developer talking in front of other game developers about this stuff. This stuff should be talked about and developers should be warned. Steam isn't the goldmine it was 5+ years ago. You've gotta hit a homerun to stick out and succeed. I bet similar stuff is happening to the PS4 and Xbox One now. It will happen to Switch eventually too. I certainly don't envy any indie developer unless they're one guy who already got their big break.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/26/18 12:01:27 AM #78:	meestermj posted... Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, Not sure if srs. I also work in a games store, and we literally can't keep Kingdom Come in stock. It's flying off the shelf. NPD had it at 8th in the month of February. It was the best selling indie title, so I shouldn't say it isn't selling GREAT, true. --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898498213] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>meestermj posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, </quote> Not sure if srs. I also work in a games store, and we literally can't keep Kingdom Come in stock. It's flying off the shelf.</quote> NPD had it at 8th in the month of February. It was the best selling indie title, so I shouldn't say it isn't selling GREAT, true.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/26/18 12:02:16 AM #79:	Darmik posted... I mean just to clarify it's a literal indie developer talking in front of other game developers about this stuff. This stuff should be talked about and developers should be warned. Steam isn't the goldmine it was 5+ years ago. You've gotta hit a homerun to stick out and succeed. I bet similar stuff is happening to the PS4 and Xbox One now. It will happen to Switch eventually too. I certainly don't envy any indie developer unless they're one guy who already got their big break. That is definitely a fair assertion. It is more difficult to come out of STEAM than ever before. --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898498256] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote>I mean just to clarify it's a literal indie developer talking in front of other game developers about this stuff. This stuff should be talked about and developers should be warned. Steam isn't the goldmine it was 5+ years ago. You've gotta hit a homerun to stick out and succeed. I bet similar stuff is happening to the PS4 and Xbox One now. It will happen to Switch eventually too. I certainly don't envy any indie developer unless they're one guy who already got their big break.</quote> That is definitely a fair assertion. It is more difficult to come out of STEAM than ever before.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
meestermj 03/26/18 12:02:32 AM #80:	Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... meestermj posted... Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, Not sure if srs. I also work in a games store, and we literally can't keep Kingdom Come in stock. It's flying off the shelf. NPD had it at 8th in the month of February. It was the best selling indie title, so I shouldn't say it isn't selling GREAT, true. To be fair part of it is supply too. The dev literally didn't make enough copies. I get defensive because I picked it up on a whim and its fantastic. --- Psn: beastlytoast Left-handed fire-slapsies leave me feeling confused about life. - Merydia <cite>meestermj posted [p:898498271] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>meestermj posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, </quote> Not sure if srs. I also work in a games store, and we literally can't keep Kingdom Come in stock. It's flying off the shelf.</quote> NPD had it at 8th in the month of February. It was the best selling indie title, so I shouldn't say it isn't selling GREAT, true.</quote> To be fair part of it is supply too. The dev literally didn't make enough copies. I get defensive because I picked it up on a whim and its fantastic.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jeff AKA Snoopy 03/26/18 12:04:50 AM #81:	meestermj posted... Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... meestermj posted... Jeff AKA Snoopy posted... Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, Not sure if srs. I also work in a games store, and we literally can't keep Kingdom Come in stock. It's flying off the shelf. NPD had it at 8th in the month of February. It was the best selling indie title, so I shouldn't say it isn't selling GREAT, true. To be fair part of it is supply too. The dev literally didn't make enough copies. I get defensive because I picked it up on a whim and its fantastic. I'm gonna wait until the game is patched up. I've heard really good things, but I'm more of a console gamer and patches take more time due to the vetting process of Sony and Microsoft. =/ --- https://i.imgtc.com/5AQormY.gif <cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted [p:898498394] in Steam is l... [t:76453089]...</cite> <quote><cite>meestermj posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>meestermj posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...</cite> <quote>Hell, even something like Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't selling all that great on console, </quote> Not sure if srs. I also work in a games store, and we literally can't keep Kingdom Come in stock. It's flying off the shelf.</quote> NPD had it at 8th in the month of February. It was the best selling indie title, so I shouldn't say it isn't selling GREAT, true.</quote> To be fair part of it is supply too. The dev literally didn't make enough copies. I get defensive because I picked it up on a whim and its fantastic.</quote> I'm gonna wait until the game is patched up. I've heard really good things, but I'm more of a console gamer and patches take more time due to the vetting process of Sony and Microsoft. =/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Steam is looking grim for indie developers. 82% games make less than min. wage (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Steam is looking grim for indie developers. 82% games make less than min. wage