Current Events > Alex Jones gives $3000 to 30 y/o Man to MOVE OUT of his Parents House!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ruvan22 posted...

LockeMonster posted...

Darmik posted...

I can't speak for this guy specifically but I know in my personal circumstances that simply giving the person money doesn't solve the problem.

Because it does create responsibility. When bills are due, you can get fucked really fast. When it's your parents, you can be like whatever.

Darmik posted...

I'm also not sure how paying his rent for 6 months would have taught him any independence either. That's assuming the parents can even afford to do that.

You have to make sacrifices for your kid sometimes. His whole argument for wanting 6 months to move was so he could get a job. If they didn't want him living at home, they could have gotten him a place and set him up so he could get that job and move on.

Regardless of all of that, they didn't give him enough to leave and then got the courts involved, where he himself said they spent more money on the legal bills than just helping him.

At the end of the day, they basically left him to become homeless.

Other articles earlier had provided the rebuttal evidence you are asking for - parents had stated that despite multiple suggestions/encouragements/deadlines, he hadn't shown any evidence of trying to look for a job, let alone working one. He's lived there since for ten plus years, it seems pretty reasonable that this wasn't the first time this conversation/subject has come up.

I completely agree that some mental health problems might be present, but I *don't* see intense symptoms getting in the way of him looking for employment/ a living situation.

(Also, other articles stated he never married/divorced/lived with the mother of his child - unplanned pregnancy that she assumed primary and only caregiver role. When the court gave him visitation rights, he chose not to exercise them)

Can you post these articles? My overall point was that some people lose hope and to kick them to the curb as a parent no less, is fucked up. If you want them out that bad, put a bit more effort in.
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LockeMonster posted...

I feel like you're projecting now with shitty experiences of your shitty family members. Because if I was doing the same, I've seen a lot of helpless situations and they weren't like your experience. Your case is just a shitty person, and to think everyone with issues is like her is pretty stupid.

You still don't get it.

I'm not saying that it's the same situation. I'm saying these situations are complicated and aren't there easy solutions.

You're saying there's an easy answer for a person who has lived with their parents for a decade. What makes you an expert on this? How many people in your family have had mental issues and what have you done to 'solve' them?

To write off my experience as 'shitty people' really shows that you're likely incredibly ignorant about actually dealing with troubled people.

LockeMonster posted...

What one sided story? Most of the facts were revealed by the parents and hello, it costs money to hire a lawyer and to get that process going.

Yeah because they wanted to force him out of the house.

Do you think they spent nothing on him while he lived unemployed at home? Why do you think paying for his rent would solve this issue again?

Can you sound more ignorant and biased?

Your problem seems to be that you think family matters have good guys and bad guys with simple answers.

If only this family had your intellect to give them this easy answer of paying his rent for 6 months and everything being okay somehow.
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This is a fucked up situation no doubt.

I personally think it's on the parents. You don't end up fucked up without influences from your parents. It's possible he has some childhood trauma from them.
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The parents need to go to jail and starve them.

The child should take over the house

Solution solved! He doesn't have to move out. He can start a GoFundMe to get people to donate to him staying at the house.

Also he SHOULD apply for welfare checks, so he'll have income.
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DoctorVader posted...

You don't end up fucked up without influences from your parents

If only that were true.

I mean it's the easy answer but nah.
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Darmik posted...

You still don't get it.

I'm not saying that it's the same situation. I'm saying these situations are complicated and aren't there easy solutions.

You're saying there's an easy answer for a person who has lived with their parents for a decade. What makes you an expert on this? How many people in your family have had mental issues and what have you done to 'solve' them?

To write off my experience as 'shitty people' really shows that you're likely incredibly ignorant about actually dealing with troubled people.

I have troubled friends and family members. We have worked together with everyone else to support these people and get them on the right track. Only one friend failed, and it was because he became a coke addict.

It takes work. Which is why I'm saying these parents failed. You don't give up on your child like that, especially if they obviously have mental issues.

Darmik posted...

Yeah because they wanted to force him out of the house.

Do you think they spent nothing on him while he lived unemployed at home? Why do you think paying for his rent would solve this issue again?

Again, it creates responsibility because the real world isn't as forgiving. I have seen this get resolved tons of times by having the person be on his own. Being dependant on parents and even friends gives people a "oh they wouldn't mind" attitude. When it's fucking a corporate company asking you for bills, you have no choice but to fuck up your credit or pay.

Darmik posted...

Your problem seems to be that you think family matters have good guys and bad guys with simple answers.

If only this family had your intellect to give them this easy answer of paying his rent for 6 months and everything being okay somehow

You're still projecting and being biased.
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CanuckCowboy posted...

DoctorVader posted...

You don't end up fucked up without influences from your parents

If only that were true.

I mean it's the easy answer but nah.

I'm gonna need some evidence other than "nah".
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LockeMonster posted...

It takes works. Which is why I'm saying these parents failed. You don't give up on your child like that, especially if they obviously have mental issues.

And you don't know what they have attempted before this.

Sometimes people don't want their circumstances to change.

LockeMonster posted...

Again, it creates responsibility because the real world isn't as forgiving. I have seen this get resolved tons of times by having the person be on his own. Being dependant on parents and even friends gives people a "oh they wouldn't mind" attitude. When it's fucking a corporate company asking you for bills, you have no choice but to fuck up your credit or pay.

The guy has been hit with a court order and he doesn't exactly seem to treating it as a wake up call either so I wouldn't be so confident about that.

Your solution was paying for the guys rent anyway. That's not him paying his bills. That's not being independent.

And again this is assuming he's capable of being independent. If he trashes the place what happens? What if he has addictions?

We have a lot of people with similar issues on CE. Do you think you could help them by paying for their rent? Do you think anything could go wrong there?

DoctorVader posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

DoctorVader posted...

You don't end up fucked up without influences from your parents

If only that were true.

I mean it's the easy answer but nah.

I'm gonna need some evidence other than "nah".

Do you seriously believe that every single person who has issues have their parents to blame?

I mean c'mon. At some point there needs to be some sort of personal responsibility.
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Personal responsibility doesnt exist in 2018. Maybe in 1918.
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Darmik posted...

Do you seriously believe that every single person who has issues have their parents to blame?

I mean c'mon. At some point there needs to be some sort of personal responsibility.

Outside natural mental issues, yes, parents are the most influential aspect of your personality and mental well being.
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Darmik posted...

And you don't know what they have attempted before this.

Sometimes people don't want their circumstances to change.

LockeMonster posted...
Again, it creates responsibility because the real world isn't as forgiving. I have seen this get resolved tons of times by having the person be on his own. Being dependant on parents and even friends gives people a "oh they wouldn't mind" attitude. When it's fucking a corporate company asking you for bills, you have no choice but to fuck up your credit or pay.

The guy has been hit with a court order and he doesn't exactly seem to treating it as a wake up call either so I wouldn't be so confident about that.

Your solution was paying for the guys rent anyway. That's not him paying his bills. That's not being independent.

And again this is assuming he's capable of being independent. If he trashes the place what happens? What if he has addictions?

We have a lot of people with similar issues on CE. Do you think you could help them by paying for their rent? Do you think anything could go wrong there?

You're still not getting it. None of that matters. My point is that the parents are dicks because they couldn't even give a month's rent. No matter what they tried, you're a garbage parent if you get the courts involved and send him to the streets. If this didn't become national or Alex Jones got involved, logically, where do you think he'd end up if he can't afford a month's rent?
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DoctorVader posted...

Darmik posted...

Do you seriously believe that every single person who has issues have their parents to blame?

I mean c'mon. At some point there needs to be some sort of personal responsibility.

Outside natural mental issues, yes, parents are the most influential aspect of your personality and mental well being.

So where's the evidence for that?

LockeMonster posted...

You're still not getting it. None of that matters. My point is that the parents are dicks because they couldn't even give a month's rent. No matter what they tried, you're a garbage parent if you get the courts involved and send him to the streets. If this didn't become national or Alex Jones got involved, logically, where do you think he'd end up if he can't afford a month's rent?

Where he would end up would depends on far too many factors I don't know. I don't know if his parents are the kind who would let him starve to death on the streets even with the courts involvement. I don't know if he has friends who'd take him in. For all we know this was their attempt to create responsibility because the real world isn't as forgiving.

They know more about his opportunities than I do.
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Darmik posted...

Where he would end up would depends on far too many factors I don't know. I don't know if his parents are the kind who would let him starve to death on the streets even with the courts involvement. I don't know if he has friends who'd take him in. For all we know this was their attempt to create responsibility because the real world isn't as forgiving.

They know more about his opportunities than I do

I've lived where he is. It's not cheap. They gave him $1100 and with no security deposit and no job, so no one is gonna give him a place because they're super anal about that there.
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LockeMonster posted...

I've lived where he is. It's not cheap. They gave him $1100 and with no security deposit and no job, so no one is gonna give him a place because they're super anal about that there.

He could know other people there. Or maybe they'd be willing to give him more money once he moved out.

Or maybe they're crazy and wanted him out of their lives completely.

I don't know.

But I'm not going to assume they're terrible people because I have a small snippet of their family drama. This is a miniscule part of my life. It's a large part of theirs.
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Darmik posted...

He could know other people there. Or maybe they'd be willing to give him more money once he moved out.

Not really since he's stated otherwise in interviews. Of course you're gonna call that one sided, but the parent's lawyer would have said something had that been the arrangement to make them look less bad.

Also having him depend on other friends or family is still shitty. Wtf.

Darmik posted...

Or maybe they're crazy and wanted him out of their lives completely.

I don't know.

But I'm not going to assume they're terrible people because I have a small snippet of their family drama. This is a miniscule part of my life. It's a large part of theirs.

Ok, that is great but by the facts we've seen so far, they're shit.
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Darmik posted...

So where's the evidence for that?

https://my.vanderbilt.edu/developmentalpsychologyblog/2014/05/parental-influence-on-the-emotional-development-of-children/

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-publhealth-031912-114423?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3Dpubmed
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DoctorVader posted...

Darmik posted...

So where's the evidence for that?

https://my.vanderbilt.edu/developmentalpsychologyblog/2014/05/parental-influence-on-the-emotional-development-of-children/

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-publhealth-031912-114423?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3Dpubmed

Parenting decisions affect how children turn out physically, socially, and emotionally, but that is not to say parents should be obsessed with following certain steps to have a perfectly well-adjusted child. We accept that there is no perfect formula for parents to model behavior or speak to children in certain ways to make them have a perfect emotional development experience, and that places a limit on our exploration of this subject. Parents can help their children develop into emotionally stable people by giving them a supportive environment, positive feedback, role models of healthy behavior and interactions, and someone to talk to about their emotional reactions to their experiences.

Findings from the maturing birth cohorts have fostered a life course approach to adult health, function, and disease, and in some instances have suggested the processes involved. Advances in knowledge on unraveling life course relationships are not restricted to birth cohorts; i.e., other studies have contributed, although birth cohorts uniquely contain information from around the time of birth, have a broad range of data, and often follow up over several ages through childhood into adult life. Because birth cohort studies are observational, they provide information on associations rather than establish causality; hence, findings need to be considered together with evidence based on differing study designs. The growing number of cohorts born in different places and at different times provides increasing opportunities to establish the conditions under which life course relationships vary, providing further insights for public health. The birth cohorts suggest that broader socioeconomic conditions have a long-term impact across generations and throughout life. Researchers need to undertake a more complete exploration of the extent to which such risks to health acquired at earlier-life stages can be ameliorated by later protective factors. Further possibilities exist to test the extent to which adult health, function, and disease are affected by factors acting at different life stages, as well as the alternative processes through which life course relationships arise. In particular, the roles of developmental trajectories for life chances have been explored to some extent but will be important to consider for health outcomes later in life as cohorts age. New cohorts will address gaps in knowledge and assess whether relationships seen for previous generations apply to children of today.

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Darmik posted...

DoctorVader posted...

Darmik posted...

So where's the evidence for that?

https://my.vanderbilt.edu/developmentalpsychologyblog/2014/05/parental-influence-on-the-emotional-development-of-children/

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-publhealth-031912-114423?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3Dpubmed

Parenting decisions affect how children turn out physically, socially, and emotionally, but that is not to say parents should be obsessed with following certain steps to have a perfectly well-adjusted child. We accept that there is no perfect formula for parents to model behavior or speak to children in certain ways to make them have a perfect emotional development experience, and that places a limit on our exploration of this subject. Parents can help their children develop into emotionally stable people by giving them a supportive environment, positive feedback, role models of healthy behavior and interactions, and someone to talk to about their emotional reactions to their experiences.

Findings from the maturing birth cohorts have fostered a life course approach to adult health, function, and disease, and in some instances have suggested the processes involved. Advances in knowledge on unraveling life course relationships are not restricted to birth cohorts; i.e., other studies have contributed, although birth cohorts uniquely contain information from around the time of birth, have a broad range of data, and often follow up over several ages through childhood into adult life. Because birth cohort studies are observational, they provide information on associations rather than establish causality; hence, findings need to be considered together with evidence based on differing study designs. The growing number of cohorts born in different places and at different times provides increasing opportunities to establish the conditions under which life course relationships vary, providing further insights for public health. The birth cohorts suggest that broader socioeconomic conditions have a long-term impact across generations and throughout life. Researchers need to undertake a more complete exploration of the extent to which such risks to health acquired at earlier-life stages can be ameliorated by later protective factors. Further possibilities exist to test the extent to which adult health, function, and disease are affected by factors acting at different life stages, as well as the alternative processes through which life course relationships arise. In particular, the roles of developmental trajectories for life chances have been explored to some extent but will be important to consider for health outcomes later in life as cohorts age. New cohorts will address gaps in knowledge and assess whether relationships seen for previous generations apply to children of today.

How does that negate what I said? Did you want me to post every single study?

They go into enough detail to explain influential factors from parents and we've seen this ourselves in society.

You've tried way too hard in this topic to paint the kid as the bad one, when it's obvious it's the parents at fault. It's more likely that the parents are shit and their kid also turned out shit with a bunch of issues.

I've never understood your anal style of arguing. You seem to try to drill your points into people's heads and hardly ever accept other points. It's rather insane tbh.
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LockeMonster posted...

Ruvan22 posted...

LockeMonster posted...

Darmik posted...

I can't speak for this guy specifically but I know in my personal circumstances that simply giving the person money doesn't solve the problem.

Because it does create responsibility. When bills are due, you can get fucked really fast. When it's your parents, you can be like whatever.

Darmik posted...

I'm also not sure how paying his rent for 6 months would have taught him any independence either. That's assuming the parents can even afford to do that.

You have to make sacrifices for your kid sometimes. His whole argument for wanting 6 months to move was so he could get a job. If they didn't want him living at home, they could have gotten him a place and set him up so he could get that job and move on.

Regardless of all of that, they didn't give him enough to leave and then got the courts involved, where he himself said they spent more money on the legal bills than just helping him.

At the end of the day, they basically left him to become homeless.

Other articles earlier had provided the rebuttal evidence you are asking for - parents had stated that despite multiple suggestions/encouragements/deadlines, he hadn't shown any evidence of trying to look for a job, let alone working one. He's lived there since for ten plus years, it seems pretty reasonable that this wasn't the first time this conversation/subject has come up.

I completely agree that some mental health problems might be present, but I *don't* see intense symptoms getting in the way of him looking for employment/ a living situation.

(Also, other articles stated he never married/divorced/lived with the mother of his child - unplanned pregnancy that she assumed primary and only caregiver role. When the court gave him visitation rights, he chose not to exercise them)

Can you post these articles? My overall point was that some people lose hope and to kick them to the curb as a parent no less, is fucked up. If you want them out that bad, put a bit more effort in.

Here's one -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5759301/Deadbeat-millennial-tells-parents-sought-evict-home.html

He told his parents wayyyy before all of this that he didn't want to apply for jobs as he was pleading hardship so he didn't have to pay child court fees. He also was never married to the mother of his child and was not in a relationship with her (his words). For the past EIGHT years his job has been getting greater custody of his son (his words), but he has declined supervised visits. There's a lot more details in the article, most of the articles with these details were before the actual ruling.

DoctorVader posted...

They go into enough detail to explain influential factors from parents and we've seen this ourselves in society.

That's not what you said.

DoctorVader posted...

You've tried way too hard in this topic to paint the kid as the bad one, when it's obvious it's the parents at fault.

Except that isn't what I said but okay.
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Darmik posted...

That's not what you said.

DoctorVader posted...

Outside natural mental issues, yes, parents are the most influential aspect of your personality and mental well being.

Darmik posted...

Except that isn't what I said but okay.

If you say so.
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I think Alex Jones understands his base enough that he's simply just trying to look like he actually cares about them. $3K won't really change his situation much outside of buying him some time as the guy really has no shown no drive to be remotely independent.
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DoctorVader posted...

Darmik posted...

That's not what you said.

DoctorVader posted...

Outside natural mental issues, yes, parents are the most influential aspect of your personality and mental well being.

Darmik posted...

Except that isn't what I said but okay.

If you say so.

And the question was;
Darmik posted...

Do you seriously believe that every single person who has issues have their parents to blame?

I mean c'mon. At some point there needs to be some sort of personal responsibility.

While parents can and usually are a major factor there can be significantly more factors at play outside of mental illness.
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Darmik posted...

While parents can and usually are a major factor there can be significantly more factors at play outside of mental illness.

DoctorVader posted...

Outside natural mental issues, yes, parents are the most influential aspect of your personality and mental well being.

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