Current Events > DateAnIncel website started to fix the incel problem, yet some people are mad.

(+) Yeah! (+)

ultimate reaver posted...

what happened to people just calling themselves virgins? i cant imagine anyone wanting to be around anyone that gives themselves a grandiose title like "involuntary celibate" because they can't fuck anyone, let alone dating them

Because not every incel is a virgin...

Banana_Cyanide posted...

Aloner posted...

How is finding a way to be content with being stuck alone for life worse than being an incel?

Didn't someone else in this topic point out how people on here just want to shit on virgins?

What a way to prove their point.

I don't understand. My question is legitimate, having waifus seems to me to be a healthier means of coping with loneliness than being consumed by frustration about being shunned by women in real life.
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Aloner posted...

Banana_Cyanide posted...

Aloner posted...

How is finding a way to be content with being stuck alone for life worse than being an incel?

Didn't someone else in this topic point out how people on here just want to shit on virgins?

What a way to prove their point.

I don't understand. My question is legitimate, having waifus seems to me to be a healthier means of coping with loneliness than being consumed by frustration about being shunned by women in real life.

Hey man, whatever works for ya
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Somehow, everything is always someone else's fault
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EverDownward posted...

RedWhiteBlue posted...

And most people think incels are exclusively that toxic community subreddit, not actual involuntary celibates. And that incels are not exclusive to virgins. And that by purposefully taking away a once innocent word, they prevent people from expressing themselves for their problems. It's like when people once demonized certain mental health issues, but over time we saw that a metric fuck ton of people have legitimate depression and now it's not something we jump down each other's throats for.

In due time incels will get their due attention, but society isn't caught up just yet.

Underrated post

its considered exclusively a male-originated problem, so don't hold your breath waiting for society to care about its impact on boys and men
it only raises an alarm in media because of the parts that target women

the campaigns to fight toxic masculinity mostly focus on how it encourages sexism and domestic violence towards women
the parts that say "hey lets ease up on shaming boys for not being macho robots all the time" are much much less heard...

like bitter guys are not entitled to help when they're being sexist assholes
but its a bold face lie to say toxic aspects of society (from both men and women) don't considerably add to their creation

P4wn4g3 posted...

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that incels are the male counterpart to feminists.

if you mean penis hating radfems, yeah basically
as someone whos been to and organized multiple feminist functions i can tell you theres always a couple man-haters who show up
its not exactly a secret that a bunch of them have major social and dating issues with men
its one of the most common reasons they adopt an anti-male mindset and political beliefs
instead of the trial of getting laid, undesirable women have the aggravating curse of zero luck with the men they want
and its often a self-inflicted curse

feminism itself isn't anti-male
3rd wave radical feminism at its most toxic definitely is...

its just that not a lot of radfems went on shooting sprees that hit the news
violence, yes sometimes
murder tolls? not really...unless you focus on cases of child and spousal abuse gone critical

major stuff like shooting sprees, bomb threats, and vengeful acts of arson are mostly male-dominated

NonDairyMiltank posted...

feminism itself isn't anti-male
3rd wave radical feminism at its most toxic definitely is...

I think an argument can be made that feminism itself has created this incel counter culture. Feminism itself houses plenty of nutjobs who are only interested in social progress for the sake of social progress ignoring the cost of freedoms and rights. I personally like the idea of equal rights, but I have yet to meet a feminist that isn't a shitty human being. This is the same thing incels are doing. Are there plenty of good people in the group regardless? Obviously, because women's rights are important and that's the calling card for feminism. Unfortunately the larger part of the population is more interested in being disingenuous. Feminism needs to clean itself up before I bother taking it seriously as something "good" or "altruistic" or whatever.
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NonDairyMiltank posted...

feminism itself isn't anti-male
3rd wave radical feminism at its most toxic definitely is...

I agree with this. First and second wave were pushes for legitimate issues, like equal rights and equal representation. Third wave feels less like a concern for women's rights and more about hating men.
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Anyone remember when incels weren't quite spun as a misogynistic group? It was like 8-9 years ago. Yes, there's a lot of very hateful, very sad, very lonely men out there with mental issues who blame women and exclusively women for their problems, but I do also think there are incels who are just frustrated that they're essentially a square peg who can't fit in the round hole that is the dating world.
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shockthemonkey posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

NonDairyMiltank posted...

feminism itself isn't anti-male
3rd wave radical feminism at its most toxic definitely is...

I think an argument can be made that feminism itself has created this incel counter culture. Feminism itself houses plenty of nutjobs who are only interested in social progress for the sake of social progress ignoring the cost of freedoms and rights. I personally like the idea of equal rights, but I have yet to meet a feminist that isn't a shitty human being. This is the same thing incels are doing. Are there plenty of good people in the group regardless? Obviously, because women's rights are important and that's the calling card for feminism. Unfortunately the larger part of the population is more interested in being disingenuous. Feminism needs to clean itself up before I bother taking it seriously as something "good" or "altruistic" or whatever.

Id like to hear your argument as to how feminism creating incel culture.

It's the opposite side of the coin for many feminists and incels. If we set aside equal rights for a moment and focus on what the vocal majority in the groups tend to talk about, it's this:
Feminists - Male Patriarchy controls everything. Even subtle things are sexist. In fact you can use history through today's social lens to make anything sexist. Problems like micro aggressions, men being unattracted to so called ugly women, and not enough women in the workforce (ignoring the fact that isn't the case anymore) are bigger issues that actual gang rape happening today (seriously this disgusts me).

This has a cause and effect relationship to the incel version which was probably first in ancient history, but in much more recent history since the feminist movement would have been more put into effect by feminism.

Incels - Female privilege controls everything. Even day to day hardships are examples of women being more empowered than men. In fact you can use history to make the case that all men are rapists, murderers, and unfuckable. Problems like micro aggressions, women being unattracted to so called ugly men, and not enough employable men (which seems like a problem the Democratic party is actually trying to push now) are bigger issues than actual terrorism, sexist organizations like Fox controlling the world, and people in general lacking basic common courtesy and respect for their fellow man.

Feminists just get the shitty end of it in this case because they don't kick out their radicals.
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Feminists claim that it's okay to complain about gender inequalities imposed by society. Which it is.

Yet guys are shamed when they complain about the gender inequalities in dating that effect men, such as the difficulty for guys who lack "masculine" features (assertiveness, muscles, tallness, etc.), and often by feminists themselves. For wanting social progress towards equality on that matter, they're called entitled and the like.

It makes it feel like you're actually only allowed to complain about the inequalities that are men's fault (of which there are many, yes), but not the ones that are women's fault.
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Aloner posted...

Feminists claim that it's okay to complain about gender inequalities imposed by society. Which it is.

Yet guys are shamed when they complain about the gender inequalities in dating that effect men, such as the difficulty for guys who lack "masculine" features (assertiveness, muscles, tallness, etc.), and often by feminists themselves. For wanting social progress towards equality on that matter, they're called entitled and the like.

It makes it feel like you're actually only allowed to complain about the inequalities that are men's fault (of which there are many, yes), but not the ones that are women's fault.

This isn't the incel agenda. It's a good point and a common sentiment, but labeling yourself "incel" basically admits defeat since you are playing the victim card of "Oh I just can't have a normal life since women won't have sex with me, there really just isn't anything I can do to make myself a better person"
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Also just as a reminder, the hippies did try the love conquers all thing and its been proven time and time again they were wrong.

That's not to say that it doesn't have something to do with it or that it wouldn't help, but there is more to things than that. Incels refuse to see it that way, in much the same way as radfems.
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shockthemonkey posted...

Eh, I dont see a lot of this vitriol toward not traditionally masculine people that youre talking about. Especially in a way that would create a toxic incel community, I dont see that connection. Lack of men supporting men in the same way that feminists support women seems like much more of a cause. I honestly dont know any feminists who think that men cant conplain about gendered problems facing them.

More specifically there is a taboo for men saying they have been raped for example, and in the workplaces a woman tends to get a guy fired if she just makes the accusation. I've never been a victim of any of this myself, but I have heard stories of men who have. They just don't talk about it because it's basically not a manly thing to do. Men like being chivalrous and manly. The problems facing men and women are definitely different, sure, but they are still there.
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They shouldnt be helping incels to get laid.

Incels need to be mocked and shunned until they lash out against society.
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shockthemonkey posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

Eh, I dont see a lot of this vitriol toward not traditionally masculine people that youre talking about. Especially in a way that would create a toxic incel community, I dont see that connection. Lack of men supporting men in the same way that feminists support women seems like much more of a cause. I honestly dont know any feminists who think that men cant conplain about gendered problems facing them.

More specifically there is a taboo for men saying they have been raped for example, and in the workplaces a woman tends to get a guy fired if she just makes the accusation. I've never been a victim of any of this myself, but I have heard stories of men who have. They just don't talk about it because it's basically not a manly thing to do. Men like being chivalrous and manly. The problems facing men and women are definitely different, sure, but they are still there.

I dont understand how youre blaming this on feminism or how youre relating this to incel communities.

Well for incels this problem feeds into their crazy world view. Feminists claim to support equal rights for men and women but more often than not will publicly take people to social media in a character assassination stunt if they are men committing sexism or whatever, but won't do so if it's a woman doing the same for a man. They bandwagon onto stupid causes from time to time like "sexism" in games when really that's a pretty easy issue to tackle or avoid.

I'd personally like there to be a group that is more interested in basic human rights for everyone. Men and women are actually equal. If it is going to be international the goals have to be basic since the majority of work would be in places like the middle east. If here in America, the spin has to be less. There needs to be less political theater and more focus on actual causes that affect a lot of people negatively and with no good results.

That's it in a gist I guess.
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They aren't entirely to blame, just as far as they claim to be the advocates for gender equality and equal rights and fail to meet that expectation. Incels have plenty of blame. So do people who do nothing about the situation.
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I've said this before, but if men want the injustices perpetrated against them to get attention, they'll have to fight for them. Just as feminists have for women. It will take time and a lot of work, but it's better than sitting around complaining, and certainly better than shoring up in insular communities lamenting one's fate.
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CyricZ posted...

I've said this before, but if men want the injustices perpetrated against them to get attention, they'll have to fight for them. Just as feminists have for women. It will take time and a lot of work, but it's better than sitting around complaining, and certainly better than shoring up in insular communities lamenting one's fate.

And yet the idea of men's rights groups are laughed at by the majority of people. Not that I disagree, but the current circumstances make this an uphill battle.

That's not to mention that women on average seem to have more social difficulties than men. Of course I've never done any polling of both groups so I'm not sure I'd know.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

And yet the idea of men's rights groups are laughed at by the majority of people. Not that I disagree, but the current circumstances make this an uphill battle.

Shall I tell you of the time when women's rights groups were laughed at? When they faced a massive uphill battle?
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CyricZ posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

And yet the idea of men's rights groups are laughed at by the majority of people. Not that I disagree, but the current circumstances make this an uphill battle.

Shall I tell you of the time when women's rights groups were laughed at? When they faced a massive uphill battle?

No need, I get it.

I think though that people really need to fix their own problems before trying to fix the world. There's a Ghandi saying about that.
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shockthemonkey posted...

Plus how many MRA groups actually attempt to work with feminists instead of seeing themselves as opposition?

How do you know they didn't try?
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Again, feminists don't make their group very approachable. Why isn't there more of a focus one basic human rights over stupid shit like ugly people get fucked less? Feminists need better PR for starters. They need a better approach if they are going to keep teaching this stuff in schools. The need to be less open to letting every crazy person profit off the cause.
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CyricZ posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

And yet the idea of men's rights groups are laughed at by the majority of people. Not that I disagree, but the current circumstances make this an uphill battle.

Shall I tell you of the time when women's rights groups were laughed at? When they faced a massive uphill battle?

I think there's less room for sympathy towards male victims for various reasons.

- Women were forced to be obedient to men in every way. Less rights, less opportunity. The oppression was very clear. Men were forced to be workhorses, providers, soldiers, etc. but because it wasn't the opposite sex oppressing them it's seen as more of an internal problem.

- Benevolent sexism/chivalry already established a foundation for helping women in need even before there was feminism. There was no such support system for men. Socializing for solutions is seen as feminine. Men don't want to admit they have problems and ask for help because it's not masculine. A man's supposed to change things or adapt on his own.

- Men are guilty of more misdeeds than women overall, from a criminal perspective at least, so women are more likely to be seen as innocent people who deserve help.

- Feminists often obstruct men's movements, for various reasons. Partially out of wariness of male supremacism. Partially out of competition for attention and control of the narrative ("men don't need a men's movement, feminism already handles gender equality"). Partially due to conflicting legal interests.

It sucks because feminists have so many women's issues to deal with that men's issues obviously get backseated. It's easy to give up because the path forward is possibly impossible.
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No one said it was going to be easy.

You pick your battles, stay on message, and realize that one doesn't have to work against the other.
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