Current Events > Trump trying to get rid of pre-existing condition protections

(+) Yeah! (+)

Coal miners for Trump maga maga maga
---

Fuck health Care reform, if anything this topic highlights the need for educational reform. Absolutely astonishing how few people understand basic economics and at it's core, addition and subtraction. Hmmm, if you're pumping out more money than you're taking in, you're gonna have a bad time.

Not a hard concept at fucking all, people.

The whole US healthcare system needs to change, and Obamacare was the first step in that direction.
---

Good. You can't call it insurance if you force companies to cover preexisting conditions. Let the free market work and we will get a cheap, efficient and improving Healthcare. Force government regulations on it and you get the crap we have today.

Healthcare was never so expensive. The government and insurance companies are fucking us.
---

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

Let the free market work and we will get a cheap, efficient and improving Healthcare

The real world doesn't work that way. Ideally, a free market would bring about that end, but in reality, human nature would screw it up
---

TheUsualSuspect posted...

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

Let the free market work and we will get a cheap, efficient and improving Healthcare

The real world doesn't work that way. Ideally, a free market would bring about that end, but in reality, human nature would screw it up

You're thinking about communism...
---

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

TheUsualSuspect posted...

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

Let the free market work and we will get a cheap, efficient and improving Healthcare

The real world doesn't work that way. Ideally, a free market would bring about that end, but in reality, human nature would screw it up

You're thinking about communism...

Nope. Though communism is shit too, don't get me wrong
---

Spooking posted...

I don't want to pay for you.

that's literally the entire premise behind insurance.
---

Disrespector posted...

The "pro-life" party ladies and gentlemen!

Once the life is born they stop giving a shit.
---

Giant_Aspirin posted...

Spooking posted...

I don't want to pay for you.

that's literally the entire premise behind insurance.

Except there are certain people that you would reasonably want to keep out because they'll be gauranteed to cost way more than they'll contribute. How would you feel if your car insurance company was forced to start insuring people with a history of reckless driving? Being forced to cover people with preexising conditions is like being forced to invite to that guy to your gatherings who eats and drinks the most but basically never brings any food or drinks himself.
---

DifferentialEquation posted...

Being forced to cover people with preexising conditions is like being forced to invite to that guy to your gatherings who eats and drinks the most but basically never brings any food or drinks himself.

which is why insurance should not be a for-profit industry.
---

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

You...you DO understand that is an unsustainable business model and if everyone operated like that providers literally could not operate, right?

I understand it and hope insurance companies with that model burn and take their investors with them. The sooner we get single layer the better off we'll be.

It's funny how the alt right loves blatantly unethical and criminal organizations unless they happen to be Mexican or black gangs.
---

Giant_Aspirin posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

Being forced to cover people with preexising conditions is like being forced to invite to that guy to your gatherings who eats and drinks the most but basically never brings any food or drinks himself.

which is why insurance should not be a for-profit industry.

The medical industry is largely at fault for shit they try to pull. Here's an example that happened to my friend (which is representative of how the industry operates).

He was out hiking and banged up his knee and went to get it looked at. All that happened was that they physically examined it, cleaned it up and put a bandage on it. Somehow, they initially tried to bill him directly instead of his insurance. They tried to charge him over 10 grand. When he called to get it straightened and have them send the bill to his insurance, the price they gave to his insurance company only ended up being a few hundred dollars (and out of pocket he paid less than a hundred).

The medical industry is where the real crooks are, not the insurance companies.
---

Knowledge_King posted...

Without emotions? Sure there is. They'd be a burden on society as their medical care would cost too much and that's money that can be better spent on like...hundreds of other people who aren't dying already.

We're talking about people with treatable conditions, not people who are "dying already." If you don't know the difference between these groups this is probably a discussion You should stay out of.
---

DifferentialEquation posted...

The medical industry is where the real crooks are, not the insurance companies.

it's a feedback loop. one reason why the medical industry charges $10,000 for an ER visit over a sprained ankle because it operates on the assumption that everyone has insurance.
---

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

So, if you had your own insurance company, you're telling me you would take people on at a massive loss?

Yes, because those individuals are subsidized by the healthy individuals that pay into the system and have few or no claims. This is literally how Insurance works.
---

TrevorBlack79 posted...

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

So, if you had your own insurance company, you're telling me you would take people on at a massive loss?

Yes, because those individuals are subsidized by the healthy individuals that pay into the system and have few or no claims. This is literally how Insurance works.

Yeah, he should take his own advice

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

if anything this topic highlights the need for educational reform

---

Giant_Aspirin posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

The medical industry is where the real crooks are, not the insurance companies.

it's a feedback loop. one reason why the medical industry charges $10,000 for an ER visit over a sprained ankle because it operates on the assumption that everyone has insurance.

They could just charge the same price to everyone like basically every other businesses in existence. If you go to purchase any other service from any halfway decent business, they'll give you a price based on their actual costs and not just pull bullshit figures out of their asses.

Whether or not a person has insurance has no bearing on the amount of time the doctors and nurses spend on you, the amount of medicine or supplies they'll need to treat you, etc. There's no excuse for hospitals to pull this kind of shit.
---

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

Bio1590 posted...

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

Spooking posted...

Insurance companies being forced to accept people with pre-exisiting conditions means you and I have to pay more for our insurance (to offset the cost). I don't want to pay for you. I don't want anything to do with socialize medicine.

Instead,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8" data-time=" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8" data-time="

Do something about that. Win-win for everybody involved (except insurance companies).

This^^^ is the reality.

"Hey GIECO, I just smashed up my new BMW, but forgot to insure it. Full coverage, please!"

Insurance doesn't work that way, sorry folks. Take emotion out of the equation and it's not unreasonable.

Holy fuck this is bad.

Explain. How is it fair for an insurance company to provide coverage to someone who they will NEVER make a dime off of? It is really concerning how many people do not understand basic economics....

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

Spooking posted...

Insurance companies being forced to accept people with pre-exisiting conditions means you and I have to pay more for our insurance (to offset the cost). I don't want to pay for you. I don't want anything to do with socialize medicine.

Instead,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8" data-time=" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8" data-time="

Do something about that. Win-win for everybody involved (except insurance companies).

This^^^ is the reality.

"Hey GIECO, I just smashed up my new BMW, but forgot to insure it. Full coverage, please!"

Insurance doesn't work that way, sorry folks. Take emotion out of the equation and it's not unreasonable.

You should pick a gimmick and stick to it, ROD

You should stop obsessing over him, it's quite sad. ROD and I have very little overlap with views and opinions.

Whatever you say hoth
---

DifferentialEquation posted...

Health insurance companies should not have to pay for pre existing conditions if they don't want to. Why not make car insurance companies pay for pre existing car wrecks, or home insurance companies pay for pre existing destroyed homes? It's the same thing.

Human life = a car.

POS.
---

DifferentialEquation posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

Spooking posted...

I don't want to pay for you.

that's literally the entire premise behind insurance.

Except there are certain people that you would reasonably want to keep out because they'll be gauranteed to cost way more than they'll contribute. How would you feel if your car insurance company was forced to start insuring people with a history of reckless driving? Being forced to cover people with preexising conditions is like being forced to invite to that guy to your gatherings who eats and drinks the most but basically never brings any food or drinks himself.

Being a reckless driver (choice) is not even close to being the same as being sick (not a choice).

Absolutely awful comparison.
---

I wanted to read the whole topic but saw Spooking burning up right from the beginning.

If he's a joke poster, he's bad at it. DE should give him some lessons. I also see DE is in here comparing humans to cars. Nice.

That's conservative life people.

A large portion are religious...and then compare humans to cars...because Jesus would have done it.

The problem with health insurance in the US is that it's treated the same was as fire insurance or car insurance, where what you have insured is inanimate objects.

Health insurance is about human beings.

Most of the world treats health insurance very different for the simple reason that there's a fundamental difference between inanimate objects and the health of a human being. But it never caught on in the US.
---

Because helping others is socialism, which is equal to communism in the eyes of America, and they had a 50+ years wave of Communism is the evil propaganda.
---

TrevorBlack79 posted...

Knowledge_King posted...

Without emotions? Sure there is. They'd be a burden on society as their medical care would cost too much and that's money that can be better spent on like...hundreds of other people who aren't dying already.

We're talking about people with treatable conditions, not people who are "dying already." If you don't know the difference between these groups this is probably a discussion You should stay out of.

You can be both treatable and dying.

And the 'burden on society' statement still applies. If that same money can help out hundreds of others without said conditions, then without emotion, it makes more sense to do that.
---

What the fuck happened with the Physicians Pledge?
---

I honestly wonder if the people for this would change their minds if it affected them.
---

Oatcakes posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

Spooking posted...

I don't want to pay for you.

that's literally the entire premise behind insurance.

Except there are certain people that you would reasonably want to keep out because they'll be gauranteed to cost way more than they'll contribute. How would you feel if your car insurance company was forced to start insuring people with a history of reckless driving? Being forced to cover people with preexising conditions is like being forced to invite to that guy to your gatherings who eats and drinks the most but basically never brings any food or drinks himself.

Being a reckless driver (choice) is not even close to being the same as being sick (not a choice).

Absolutely awful comparison.

Why does that matter? Why does the fact that some was put into a bad situation by misfortune (as opposed to choice) all of sudden make it okay to force the rest of society to pay for them?
---

A pre-existing condition is to health insurance what a pre-wrecked car is to automobile insurance.

This is why health insurance is not appropriate.
---

So where do we draw the line when we stop helping people and just kill them instead?
Once we start walking that road, it wont take long until we cross other lines.
Why help somebody that broke their leg? Kill him, we got tons of Mexicans that can do his job, both cheaper and better.
---

Foppe posted...

So where do we draw the line when we stop helping people and just kill them instead?
Once we start walking that road, it wont take long until we cross other lines.
Why help somebody that broke their leg? Kill him, we got tons of Mexicans that can do his job, both cheaper and better.

Killing someone is taking their life which you do not have the right to do. That doesn't mean you should be forced to pay for them them either.

And if someone can do his job cheaper then his company can fire him and hire someone else. That has nothing to do with taking his life. You understand that, right? You know that when McDonald's puts in all those new kiosks by 2020 that cashiers will just be let go and that they're not going to be executed, right?
---

American health care is a backwards abhorrent mess.
---

spikethedevil posted...

American health care is a backwards abhorrent mess.

It's a lot more convenient to simply delay treatment indefinitely instead of outright denying it, like the rest of the world does.
---

Coffeebeanz posted...

spikethedevil posted...

American health care is a backwards abhorrent mess.

It's a lot more convenient to simply delay treatment indefinitely instead of outright denying it, like the rest of the world does.

Except the rest of the workd doesn't.
---

spikethedevil posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

spikethedevil posted...

American health care is a backwards abhorrent mess.

It's a lot more convenient to simply delay treatment indefinitely instead of outright denying it, like the rest of the world does.

Except the rest of the workd doesn't.

Look, believe it or not I know a thing or two about healthcare.
---

Or at least my country doesn't though our government are trying to destroy our health care system as well as social services.
---

Coffeebeanz posted...

A pre-existing condition is to health insurance what a pre-wrecked car is to automobile insurance.

This is why health insurance is not appropriate.

That's inaccurate. A person with a pre-existing condition is still functional. A wrecked car is not. Very stupid analogy
---

lol at random CEmen trying to argue health care with a fucking doctor
---

DifferentialEquation posted...

Oatcakes posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

Spooking posted...

I don't want to pay for you.

that's literally the entire premise behind insurance.

Except there are certain people that you would reasonably want to keep out because they'll be gauranteed to cost way more than they'll contribute. How would you feel if your car insurance company was forced to start insuring people with a history of reckless driving? Being forced to cover people with preexising conditions is like being forced to invite to that guy to your gatherings who eats and drinks the most but basically never brings any food or drinks himself.

Being a reckless driver (choice) is not even close to being the same as being sick (not a choice).

Absolutely awful comparison.

Why does that matter? Why does the fact that some was put into a bad situation by misfortune (as opposed to choice) all of sudden make it okay to force the rest of society to pay for them?

If it's about money, then you should be looking at better systems where it's free at the point of contact and costs less (US spend per person is about 5 times as much as UK spend per person).

After all, it's about money isn't it to you?
---

Oatcakes posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

Oatcakes posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

Spooking posted...

I don't want to pay for you.

that's literally the entire premise behind insurance.

Except there are certain people that you would reasonably want to keep out because they'll be gauranteed to cost way more than they'll contribute. How would you feel if your car insurance company was forced to start insuring people with a history of reckless driving? Being forced to cover people with preexising conditions is like being forced to invite to that guy to your gatherings who eats and drinks the most but basically never brings any food or drinks himself.

Being a reckless driver (choice) is not even close to being the same as being sick (not a choice).

Absolutely awful comparison.

Why does that matter? Why does the fact that some was put into a bad situation by misfortune (as opposed to choice) all of sudden make it okay to force the rest of society to pay for them?

If it's about money, then you should be looking at better systems where it's free at the point of contact and costs less (US spend per person is about 5 times as much as UK spend per person).

After all, it's about money isn't it to you?

It's about not being forced to pay for others. You shouldn't be forced to pay for someone else no matter how expensive or inexpensive their care may be.

If someone had a life threatening condition that only cost a few dollars to treat, it would still be wrong to force the rest of society to pay for it.
---

TheUsualSuspect posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

A pre-existing condition is to health insurance what a pre-wrecked car is to automobile insurance.

This is why health insurance is not appropriate.

That's inaccurate. A person with a pre-existing condition is still functional. A wrecked car is not. Very stupid analogy

You don't insure something that already needs a payout prior to enrolling. That's not even remotely logical. Insurance is fundamentally risk management.
---

TheUsualSuspect posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

A pre-existing condition is to health insurance what a pre-wrecked car is to automobile insurance.

This is why health insurance is not appropriate.

That's inaccurate. A person with a pre-existing condition is still functional. A wrecked car is not. Very stupid analogy

Value and worth are relative to whoever has to pay for something. If someone has a pre existing condition, who are you to judge that it's worth it for the rest of us to pay to repair that person? And to force us to do so?
---

DifferentialEquation posted...

Oatcakes posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

Oatcakes posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

Spooking posted...

I don't want to pay for you.

that's literally the entire premise behind insurance.

Except there are certain people that you would reasonably want to keep out because they'll be gauranteed to cost way more than they'll contribute. How would you feel if your car insurance company was forced to start insuring people with a history of reckless driving? Being forced to cover people with preexising conditions is like being forced to invite to that guy to your gatherings who eats and drinks the most but basically never brings any food or drinks himself.

Being a reckless driver (choice) is not even close to being the same as being sick (not a choice).

Absolutely awful comparison.

Why does that matter? Why does the fact that some was put into a bad situation by misfortune (as opposed to choice) all of sudden make it okay to force the rest of society to pay for them?

If it's about money, then you should be looking at better systems where it's free at the point of contact and costs less (US spend per person is about 5 times as much as UK spend per person).

After all, it's about money isn't it to you?

It's about not being forced to pay for others. You shouldn't be forced to pay for someone else no matter how expensive or inexpensive their care may be.

If someone had a life threatening condition that only cost a few dollars to treat, it would still be wrong to force the rest of society to pay for it.

Stop paying taxes then.
---

Healthcare is not a commodity that operates with price elasticity and other capitalistic concepts. Insurance companies are an unnecessary middle man, especially in a universal system.
---

Interesting, I thought this already went away.

Anyway, I just want my cost of living to go down.
---

TheUsualSuspect posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

A pre-existing condition is to health insurance what a pre-wrecked car is to automobile insurance.

This is why health insurance is not appropriate.

That's inaccurate. A person with a pre-existing condition is still functional. A wrecked car is not. Very stupid analogy

You're aware a crashed car can be... repaired, right? And that the auto insurance company has to pay out for it? The analogy is perfect. Both cases represent a loss to the company that is compensated for by raising everyone else's costs.
---

A_Good_Boy posted...

Spooking posted...

I don't want to pay for you.

Then don't have insurance.

You would be penalized with a fine if you didnt.

That fact made it all the more shitty.
---