Current Events > Transexualism no longer considered a mental disorder by WHO

(+) Yeah! (+)

hockeybub89 posted...

KhanJohnny posted...

Is it a coincidence that homosexuality and transgenderism are no longer recognized as mental disorders, when people from those two groups gain political power?

Wowie, I wonder if politics has anything to do with this??

Are black people and women in general suffering a mental disorder? They're other groups that were treated as inferior until they weren't

I don't think anyone ever said being black or a woman was a mental disorder in itself.

BlameAnesthesia posted...

Kensaimage posted...

Changing definitions around doesnt change facts. Even if you could change your gender surgically to the point of actual reproduction (likely WAY in the future), you were still modified after the fact.

As for being female by default, thats all in the gestation period. Meaning its just how it works. We also dont have many of our vital organs fully developed, nor can we survive without a full pregnancy cycle to fully form in the womb. Just cuz you were a blank slate that is female by default at the gestational stage doesnt mean that undergoing radical surgeries or hormone therapies changes the FACT that you were biologically not the sex you perceived yourself to be.

Now, I am NOT proposing some sort of ban or anti freedom sentiment. Do what you want. But that doesnt mean people have to accept it as scientific fact.

That whole pseudoscience logic can be applied to put a spin on literally anything. While science cant explain everything as we know it, gender and reproductivity are factually well understood. Who you are psychologically can vary. The brain is very complex. But gender isnt.

Dude, why does this fucking matter to you?

Dude, its a social forum and Im stating an opinion. Its not complicated

shockthemonkey posted...

Kensaimage posted...

Says who? Take that cat guy for example. He modified the hell out of himself and still committed suicide.

Im also not bitching just cuz I have a different opinion. Its a social forum. Youre gonna get opposing opinions from time to time.

Ok how about we dont take that cat guy because he isnt what this is about at all. Now try again.

You dont get to brush something off cuz you dont know how to respond. The cat guy IS a legitimate comparison to someone unable to cope with what they wish they were.

Kensaimage posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

Kensaimage posted...

Says who? Take that cat guy for example. He modified the hell out of himself and still committed suicide.

Im also not bitching just cuz I have a different opinion. Its a social forum. Youre gonna get opposing opinions from time to time.

Ok how about we dont take that cat guy because he isnt what this is about at all. Now try again.

You dont get to brush something off cuz you dont know how to respond. The cat guy IS a legitimate comparison to someone unable to cope with what they wish they were.

Can you provide a link to the source that shows his brain scan showed him having a more cat-like than human-like brain, or anything on that level to validate your theory it's the same thing?
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hockeybub89 posted...

Kensaimage posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Kensaimage posted...

Says who? Take that cat guy for example. He modified the hell out of himself and still committed suicide.

It's almost like a human seeing themselves as the wrong sex and seeing themselves as the wrong species might be different issues.

Disparity between reality and self image, and an inability to come to terms. Its in the same vein.

Giving what we know about chromosomal defects and intersex conditions, the complexity of the brain, and the fact that everyone "starts" as a "female" makes transgenderism a quite bit different than viewing yourself as non-human.

There is nothing suggesting that a human can be a cat. How could two humans give birth to a cat in a human body with a human brain?

Its about coming to terms with something that defies youre true nature. So whether its non human, the opposite gender, or something else entirely...this man could not cope with what he truly was. A man.

Its more about psychology against natural biology. How they line up. How they dont. So no, I dont think its so different that it cant be discussed. That, and trans people have committed suicide over this very issue. Some come to terms. Some cant. Its a sad situation, but it all stems in the brain. You arent flawed or incorrect because you have a penis. You just believe you are.

NONE of us choose what were born into. Face, gender, intelligence, physical attributes, etc. So I do believe gender dysmorphia to be a form of mental disorder.

I sound cold in this, but I dont intend to. I just believe its a very slippery slope when we start changing scientific definitions to appease social constructs

DarkTransient posted...

Kensaimage posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

Kensaimage posted...

Says who? Take that cat guy for example. He modified the hell out of himself and still committed suicide.

Im also not bitching just cuz I have a different opinion. Its a social forum. Youre gonna get opposing opinions from time to time.

Ok how about we dont take that cat guy because he isnt what this is about at all. Now try again.

You dont get to brush something off cuz you dont know how to respond. The cat guy IS a legitimate comparison to someone unable to cope with what they wish they were.

Can you provide a link to the source that shows his brain scan showed him having a more cat-like than human-like brain, or anything on that level to validate your theory it's the same thing?

The guy had nearly 200k invested in radical surgeries to permenantly modify his body to be feline. He changed his diet to eat dangerously rare meat. Hell, he even stated he was researching a surgery to allow him to walk on all fours permenantly.

Fuck outta here with that nonsense about it not having clear similarities between a man surgically modifying himself to be a woman.

Kensaimage posted...

DarkTransient posted...

Kensaimage posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

Kensaimage posted...

Says who? Take that cat guy for example. He modified the hell out of himself and still committed suicide.

Im also not bitching just cuz I have a different opinion. Its a social forum. Youre gonna get opposing opinions from time to time.

Ok how about we dont take that cat guy because he isnt what this is about at all. Now try again.

You dont get to brush something off cuz you dont know how to respond. The cat guy IS a legitimate comparison to someone unable to cope with what they wish they were.

Can you provide a link to the source that shows his brain scan showed him having a more cat-like than human-like brain, or anything on that level to validate your theory it's the same thing?

The guy had nearly 200k invested in radical surgeries to permenantly modify his body to be feline. He changed his diet to eat dangerously rare meat. Hell, he even stated he was researching a surgery to allow him to walk on all fours permenantly.

Fuck outta here with that nonsense about it not having clear similarities between a man surgically modifying himself to be a woman.

The difference is that in the case of transgender people, studies have shown they literally have the brain structure of their desired gender (transtrenders excluded). There's no such equivalent with otherkin; there's no reason to believe they're anything other than overgrown children continuing to play pretend.
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Kensaimage posted...

So I do believe gender dysmorphia to be a form of mental disorder.

Well it's a good thing the medical community doesn't rely on your opinion to base our scientific understanding of phenomenon.

And for what it's worth gender dysphoria =/= transgenderism, the medical community recognizes gender dysphoria as a mental illness, but it is defined as the distress caused by the miss match in gender identity, which largely is alleviated with transitioning.

Your fears of "rewriting scientific definitions" is only because you sound like someone with a high school biology's level of understanding of science and think the terms you learned in class have been written in stone. Science necessarily changes as we progress. Like I said before, Newton's mechanics used to be "fact", but they're not as true to reality is Einstein's relativity. That being said, Newton's mechanics are still a valid modality for a specific set of problems.

As humans progress and gene modification becomes a thing, the line will continue to get blurred and the distinction more and more a matter of semantics.
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Kensaimage posted...

Fuck outta here with that nonsense about it not having clear similarities between a man surgically modifying himself to be a woman.

Imagine being so dug in that you can't tell how ridiculous this line of reasoning is.
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why are people so hell bent on accepting gender dysphoria's solution being expensive surgery, therapy, and hormone treatment as well as the mutilation of an otherwise healthy physical body.

but people never apply giving into the disease as the solution to literally anything else?

body identity dysphoria has people wanting to cut off limbs or blind themselves, yet no one suggests that that is the proper solution to that kind of body dysphoria.

no one suggests that the solution to a drug addicts problem is more drugs.

so why is the solution to gender dysphoria, and only gender dysphoria to give into the disease and go full steam ahead with sex change surgery, and this just gets even worse when you have parents letting their toddler children tell them what kind of sex/gender that they are, as if a toddler has the capability to make that kind of radical life altering decision. toddlers will dress up and think they are batman for fucks sake.

kayoticdreamz posted...

but people never apply giving into the disease as the solution to literally anything else?

body identity dysphoria has people wanting to cut off limbs or blind themselves

If someone were born cortically blind with fully working retinas, the right answer may very well be to disconnect the retinas depending on the side effects of having a visual information stream that's being processed improperly.

The thing people don't understand is that this isn't a delusional disorder.
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Hell, one of the treatments for phantom limb pain is to trick the brain into perceiving a limb that isn't there.
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kayoticdreamz posted...

body identity dysphoria has people wanting to cut off limbs or blind themselves, yet no one suggests that that is the proper solution to that kind of body dysphoria.

Shocker that disorder carries such a poor prognosis with limited treatment options.

kayoticdreamz posted...

no one suggests that the solution to a drug addicts problem is more drugs.

Clearly you've never heard of methadone or suboxone for opioid maintenance treatment.

kayoticdreamz posted...

this just gets even worse when you have parents letting their toddler children tell them what kind of sex/gender that they are, as if a toddler has the capability to make that kind of radical life altering decision. toddlers will dress up and think they are batman for fucks sake.

This is a straw man. Medical professionals are already trained/educated in understanding normal development. In that regard, gender nonconformity can be a normal response that does not imply transgenderism as most instances of this behavior during adolescence is grown out of.

The issue stems from the subset who do not grow out of it, have a persistence of this feeling, and distress is resultant from this mismatch, to which there is no treatment that "restores" one's gender identity to their phenotypic gender. Populations studied where hormones or surgery was used showed a clinical improvement in dysphoria symptoms, so it is now the standard of care. Any resultant depression, anxiety, suicidality, etc is multifactorial to which one cannot ascertain causality and can just as easily be attributed to how society treats them.

No doctor is going to prescribe hormone replacement or surgery to a toddler, even at a parent's request. The process requires several assessments from mental health professionals, consultations with surgeons, a demonstrated history of dysphoria, and a risk/benefit assessment considering the suicide risk in those with untreated dysphoria.

Meaning, it's a complicated fucking topic and made due with the cards that are currently dealt. This is really only an issue made by people whom this does not afflict all because their sentiments on the issue are offended. The irony in that group usually dishing out snowflake insults seems to be lost on them.
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COVxy posted...

If someone were born cortically blind with fully working retinas, the right answer may very well be to disconnect the retinas depending on the side effects of having a visual information stream that's being processed improperly.

yeah, blinding people as the solution to the brain failing to process information correctly sounds like a great idea. lets get right on that bullshit.

COVxy posted...

The thing people don't understand is that this isn't a delusional disorder.

who said it was a delusion? no one. but mental disorders in all their varieties, have a tendency to make the people suffering through them, think the shit is real. do we tell people who are hearing voices in their head to listen to those voices? fuck no. so why do we entertain the voices that telling people that they are the wrong sex instead of trying to correct the problem without giving them surgery and life long hormone therapy?

the solution should never be a life long treatment plan if we can avoid it.

COVxy posted...

Hell, one of the treatments for phantom limb pain is to trick the brain into perceiving a limb that isn't there.

and theres a difference between that and voluntarily cutting of a limb.

BlameAnesthesia posted...

Shocker that disorder carries such a poor prognosis with limited treatment options.

because cutting off a limb makes no sense under 99% of circumstances. and that 1% is usually something extreme like frostbite or something.

BlameAnesthesia posted...

Clearly you've never heard of methadone or suboxone for opioid maintenance treatment.

fair point, poorly worded, but i was trying to say the goal is not to get them hooked on drugs or get them to keep using the drugs, it is to get them off of it even if yes at first you need to manage withdrawals with smaller dosages of the drug that are controlled. but they still are not being told to freely use their drugs.

BlameAnesthesia posted...

so it is now the standard of care.

and this is pushed on by a very real political agenda. it is now taboo to say trans people shouldnt accept themselves. it's like the entire otherside of the argument has been shut down by a political agenda. and that in of itself makes the standard of care questionable at best.

the fact is you cannot just quietly sweep the side affects of trans surgery under the rug. they are real. trans surgery regrets are real.

No doctor is going to prescribe hormone replacement or surgery to a toddler, even at a parent's request. The process requires several assessments from mental health professionals, consultations with surgeons, a demonstrated history of dysphoria, and a risk/benefit assessment considering the suicide risk in those with untreated dysphoria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV8b8hsQups" data-time="

kayoticdreamz posted...

so why is the solution to gender dysphoria, and only gender dysphoria to give into the disease and go full steam ahead with sex change surgery, and this just gets even worse when you have parents letting their toddler children tell them what kind of sex/gender that they are, as if a toddler has the capability to make that kind of radical life altering decision. toddlers will dress up and think they are batman for fucks sake.

It has been said 10,000 times before, literally nothing permanent is done to small children with regards to transitioning. There is a very defined process and doctors make sure it is not a phase before proceeding. Yeah, there are the occasional quacks and crazy parents abusing children, but the entire medical field is a fraud if we treat those instances as the norm.

"I care about facts and science. This is why I virtue signal about how disgusting it is that 5 year olds can choose to have their dicks cut off!"
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kayoticdreamz posted...

yeah, blinding people as the solution to the brain failing to process information correctly sounds like a great idea. lets get right on that bullshit.

You say that as if it's an odd solution. We have performed callosotomies on patients to prevent sever seizure disorders for decades for essentially the same reason. In fact, there are cases where entire hemispheres were removed because they were just adding noise to the system due to developmental malformation.
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kayoticdreamz posted...

it is now taboo to say trans people shouldnt accept themselves

Whether you call it a mental disorder, physical disorder, or whatever, since when has been telling people just to accept it been sound medical advice?
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kayoticdreamz posted...

who said it was a delusion? no one. but mental disorders in all their varieties, have a tendency to make the people suffering through them, think the shit is real. do we tell people who are hearing voices in their head to listen to those voices? fuck no. so why do we entertain the voices that telling people that they are the wrong sex instead of trying to correct the problem without giving them surgery and life long hormone therapy?

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kayoticdreamz posted...

and this is pushed on by a very real political agenda.

This was the standard of care before it became such a controversial issue online and in social media.

I know you think it's all a political agenda, but really the people involved in this issue are more or less insulated from it and the decisions were made outside of political shitposts and how you think the real world runs based off of your exposure to the internet.

Opinions are one thing. Having opinions on expert topics are another.
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kayoticdreamz posted...

the solution should never be a life long treatment plan if we can avoid it.

What is the permanent solution that is being swept under the rug. If we haven't developed said solution, do you think it is better to do nothing than do something that is a lifelong treatment? Is being trans even really that high maintenance after a point? Millions of people take maintenance medication every day. It's no big deal.
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hockeybub89 posted...

"I care about facts and science. This is why I virtue signal about how disgusting it is that 5 year olds can choose to have their dicks cut off!"

I mean if this is what they believe, I don't blame them for holding those beliefs.

I just find it hilarious how out of touch with the real world it is. You can tell who gets informed by what goes on in the internet versus people who actually do work/research in these particular fields.
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hockeybub89 posted...

kayoticdreamz posted...

it is now taboo to say trans people shouldnt accept themselves

Whether you call it a mental disorder, physical disorder, or whatever, since when has been telling people just to accept it been sound medical advice?

there are many situations where people have to just accept things.

COVxy posted...

Hell, one of the treatments for phantom limb pain is to trick the brain into perceiving a limb that isn't there.

Yup. I remember reading in abnormal psych how if a person missing an arm put their other arm in a mirror and scratched it, it would often cure that "phantom itch". And the same trick could be used in various forms on people with both limbs, coaxing them into feeling sensation on a fake limb before hitting it with a hammer.

kayoticdreamz posted...

it is now taboo to say trans people shouldnt accept themselves.

Except that isn't what you're doing. You're telling them to deny who they are even further because of misinformation.

"Accept who you are by ignoring that you are trans"
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shockthemonkey posted...

Kensaimage posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

Kensaimage posted...

Says who? Take that cat guy for example. He modified the hell out of himself and still committed suicide.

Im also not bitching just cuz I have a different opinion. Its a social forum. Youre gonna get opposing opinions from time to time.

Ok how about we dont take that cat guy because he isnt what this is about at all. Now try again.

You dont get to brush something off cuz you dont know how to respond. The cat guy IS a legitimate comparison to someone unable to cope with what they wish they were.

Its easy to tell that youve lost this one because you cant even stay on the topic of trans people

But also because all of your arguments have been shit and utter nonsense that even children can see through

So you cant refute my points. Noted.

DarkTransient posted...

Kensaimage posted...

DarkTransient posted...

Kensaimage posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

Kensaimage posted...

Says who? Take that cat guy for example. He modified the hell out of himself and still committed suicide.

Im also not bitching just cuz I have a different opinion. Its a social forum. Youre gonna get opposing opinions from time to time.

Ok how about we dont take that cat guy because he isnt what this is about at all. Now try again.

You dont get to brush something off cuz you dont know how to respond. The cat guy IS a legitimate comparison to someone unable to cope with what they wish they were.

Can you provide a link to the source that shows his brain scan showed him having a more cat-like than human-like brain, or anything on that level to validate your theory it's the same thing?

The guy had nearly 200k invested in radical surgeries to permenantly modify his body to be feline. He changed his diet to eat dangerously rare meat. Hell, he even stated he was researching a surgery to allow him to walk on all fours permenantly.

Fuck outta here with that nonsense about it not having clear similarities between a man surgically modifying himself to be a woman.

The difference is that in the case of transgender people, studies have shown they literally have the brain structure of their desired gender (transtrenders excluded). There's no such equivalent with otherkin; there's no reason to believe they're anything other than overgrown children continuing to play pretend.

Then this is a psychological issue. Simple. Gender roles/identity issues do not mean you were supposed to be the opposite gender. It just means theres some developmental disparity.

Is that cat guy's experience the same as the experience of transgenders?

BlameAnesthesia posted...

Kensaimage posted...

So I do believe gender dysmorphia to be a form of mental disorder.

Well it's a good thing the medical community doesn't rely on your opinion to base our scientific understanding of phenomenon.

And for what it's worth gender dysphoria =/= transgenderism, the medical community recognizes gender dysphoria as a mental illness, but it is defined as the distress caused by the miss match in gender identity, which largely is alleviated with transitioning.

Your fears of "rewriting scientific definitions" is only because you sound like someone with a high school biology's level of understanding of science and think the terms you learned in class have been written in stone. Science necessarily changes as we progress. Like I said before, Newton's mechanics used to be "fact", but they're not as true to reality is Einstein's relativity. That being said, Newton's mechanics are still a valid modality for a specific set of problems.

As humans progress and gene modification becomes a thing, the line will continue to get blurred and the distinction more and more a matter of semantics.

Its actually very simple. You are literally alive today because a male fertilized a female egg, and your FEMALE mother carried you.

It only sounds simplistic because Im not conforming to this leftist push to modify anything even remotely offensive. Im sorry, but a male is a male, and a female is a female. With the exception of the very rare hermaphrodite, its all biologically very simple.

The discussion for the mental issues becomes one of psychology. I believe what makes us human goes well above and beyond our physical gender. But the brain, as I said, is prone to all manner of issues. Compulsions. Psychosis. Depression. Mania. You name it. Its a pyproduct of self awareness.

You cannot become something you are biologically not. No more than that man really was a tiger, or a trans person mutilates their genitals.

Dragonblade01 posted...

Is that cat guy's experience the same as the experience of transgenders?

He perceived himself to associate so much with a cat that he pursued extreme surgical measures to live the part.

Thats not so different as a trans person attempting to physically become the other gender.

It's still a disorder tho
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Kensaimage posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Is that cat guy's experience the same as the experience of transgenders?

He perceived himself to associate so much with a cat that he pursued extreme surgical measures to live the part.

Thats not so different as a trans person attempting to physically become the other gender.

People are willing to do many things. That doesn't demonstrate the same experience.

Dragonblade01 posted...

Kensaimage posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Is that cat guy's experience the same as the experience of transgenders?

He perceived himself to associate so much with a cat that he pursued extreme surgical measures to live the part.

Thats not so different as a trans person attempting to physically become the other gender.

People are willing to do many things. That doesn't demonstrate the same experience.

People are willing to do many things, lol. Okay? How does it not demonstrate a very similar experience?

Because we don't know exactly how their brains were lead to their conclusions, only that they lead to somewhat similar actions.

Awful lot of unqualified nonmedical specialists in here who haven't read a single research paper on trans people shouting that somehow experts who have read and written these papers are wrong.
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I just don't like the idea of innocent penises getting hurt. They don't deserve to get cut open like that.
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I don't see where we're talking about circumcision