Current Events > Are Americans anti-universal healthcare because they don't wanna pay for it?

(+) Yeah! (+)

As in, "well if I'm perfectly healthy why should I have to pay taxes for a service I'm not even using"?
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Medicare for all is gaining popularity.
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No, because we CAN'T pay for it. The government would be bankrupt within a few years because no one is addressing why healthcare is so expensive in the first place.

Annihilated posted...

No, because we CAN'T pay for it. The government would be bankrupt within a few years because no one is addressing why healthcare is so expensive in the first place.

And they don't want to.
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It seems like only anti-vaxxers arw anti-uhc
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Yeah I think costs need to be addressed before we get to universal healthcare
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creativerealms posted...

Annihilated posted...

No, because we CAN'T pay for it. The government would be bankrupt within a few years because no one is addressing why healthcare is so expensive in the first place.

And they don't want to.

Both of these.
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Basically, yes that's the attitude of most older people and the majority of the right.

And don't forget the whole "government run healthcare will suck like everything else they do"
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Annihilated posted...

No, because we CAN'T pay for it. The government would be bankrupt within a few years because no one is addressing why healthcare is so expensive in the first place.

Fact
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Medicare levy in Australia is 2% of your taxable income, unless you earn below like 20k in which case you don't pay it.
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We can pay for it, easily. The money's already there. But like byron is saying, people automatically assume taxes will be raised and shit will happen if we try to provide better care for people.
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Why would we give a shit about that? The money obviously needs to go to our space force
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The rich and their buddies in the healthcare and insurance industries don't want it cause it eats into their bank accounts so they tell the politicians they've bought to make it out to be SOCIALISM!!!111 and use other scare tactics to convince common people that it's bad.

It's the common tactic used for anything that might make the rich less rich and less powerful, cause god forbid some asshole can't afford a golden toilet on his third yacht.
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Oh and the walk ofc
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DavidWong posted...

Medicare levy in Australia is 2% of your taxable income, unless you earn below like 20k in which case you don't pay it.

How is the quality of care in Australia? I'm not very familiar with their system
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Annihilated posted...

No, because we CAN'T pay for it. The government would be bankrupt within a few years because no one is addressing why healthcare is so expensive in the first place.

They're not mutually exclusive and it's certainly possible.

The reason health care costs are so high is due to lack of regulation on market competition, the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical companies. I do agree that if those aren't fixed during the transition to universal health care, it would be a disaster.
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I still think the public option would work with Obamacare and the Individual Mandate.
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There will obviously be genuine concerns about innovation but for the most part it's just idiotic fears of communism and spending.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

There will obviously be genuine concerns about innovation but for the most part it's just idiotic fears of communism and spending.

Innovation is why I lean toward the public option.
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Same.
Obamacare with a public option would be great, and then expand medicare to cover minors. That would be perfect imo.
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I think people also worry that itll be like Canadas health care
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Cornmuffins posted...

Oh and the walk ofc

Let's build a Wall in Space to save costs .
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Also I think the real issue here is that it has the potential of screwing with the economy if we adopt a health care system that we are already fully capable of paying for. Think of all the health insurance companies that would be jobless over one evening.

I think we really pigeonholed ourselves in a lot of aspects, that being one of them, and there's no very simple way out.
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We can't pay for it and we don't want to pay for it.
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Pretty much capitalism teaches greed over human kindness, and they were taught to care only about themselves.
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America is a very anti-"help your neighbor" country.

We don't give a shit about other people's problems. Especially if it could possibly lower our paychecks even a few dollars.

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Same.
Obamacare with a public option would be great, and then expand medicare to cover minors. That would be perfect imo.

CHIP and Medicaid are better for kids than Medicare. Medicare is pretty tailored to the elderly, kids have unique medical needs.

Also Medicare in general is kinda garbage IMO but that's another story
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cmiller4642 posted...

We don't give a shit about other people's problems. Especially if it could possibly lower our paychecks even a few dollars.

Most of us are already paying an absurd amount in taxes

Perhaps we would be more charitable if we were not getting fleeced by the filthy government from every angle and/or that they could prove to be better stewards of our money
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When Truman pushed for universal care in the late 40s, the AMA went all in opposing it on Red Scare anti-communist grounds.
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Asherlee10 posted...

Annihilated posted...

No, because we CAN'T pay for it. The government would be bankrupt within a few years because no one is addressing why healthcare is so expensive in the first place.

@Balrog0 is this a true statement?

No, health care costs in America are driven by high prices relative to other countries. You can get UHC without single payer, but stuff like medicare for all would deal with this by negotiating down prices.

It's not a silver bullet, but it is actually designed to deal with the exact problem we have with healthcare in this country tbh.

One thing to mention is that IMO it would require a tax increase. The reason is, our healthcare system currently is balkanized and states and localities pick up a lot of the slack with respect to paying for emergency care that goes uncompensated to providers. UHC would drive down costs for those entities, but it would cost more for the federal government.
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John_Galt posted...

cmiller4642 posted...

We don't give a shit about other people's problems. Especially if it could possibly lower our paychecks even a few dollars.

Most of us are already paying an absurd amount in taxes

Perhaps we would be more charitable if we were not getting fleeced by the filthy government from every angle and/or that they could prove to be better stewards of our money

Oh you righties and Libertarians worship the military tho. That eats a lot of your taxes

We can't afford it because obesity and smoking are already costing the system a shit ton of tax dollars each year. And we're just getting more obese as a nation.

Gotta solve those before we commit to using taxes to fund healthcare, otherwise we'll need to raise taxes regularly. Which is also not a good solution.
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Asherlee10 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

We can't afford it because obesity and smoking are already costing the system a shit ton of tax dollars each year. And we're just getting more obese as a nation.

Gotta solve those before we commit to using taxes to fund healthcare, otherwise we'll need to raise taxes regularly. Which is also not a good solution.

Wouldn't UHC include programs to help people stop smoking and reduce obesity? I always imagined that UHC includes preventative care.

You're asking a question that's not compatible with the American way of thinking. It's like asking Americans to burn flags on the 4th of July in masses in their local parks.

Universal Healthcare will never happen in the United States because it's incompatible with the way our country is set up. We as a nation value health insurance profits more than human life.

Asherlee10 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

We can't afford it because obesity and smoking are already costing the system a shit ton of tax dollars each year. And we're just getting more obese as a nation.

Gotta solve those before we commit to using taxes to fund healthcare, otherwise we'll need to raise taxes regularly. Which is also not a good solution.

Wouldn't UHC include programs to help people stop smoking and reduce obesity? I always imagined that UHC includes preventative care.

Those programs are already available for free for the millions of people on the largest health plans in the country.

Yet we aren't seeing the results we need to see.

Imo what needs to happen is that schools need to be mandated to have two hours allocated to physical activity and nutrition. Take it out of the time being used to innoculate the kids with third wave feminist bullshit or something.

The current generation is probably too fat to change tbqh.
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cmiller4642 posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

We can't afford it because obesity and smoking are already costing the system a shit ton of tax dollars each year. And we're just getting more obese as a nation.

Gotta solve those before we commit to using taxes to fund healthcare, otherwise we'll need to raise taxes regularly. Which is also not a good solution.

Wouldn't UHC include programs to help people stop smoking and reduce obesity? I always imagined that UHC includes preventative care.

You're asking a question that's not compatible with the American way of thinking. It's like asking Americans to burn flags on the 4th of July in masses in their local parks.

Universal Healthcare will never happen in the United States because it's incompatible with the way our country is set up. We as a nation value health insurance profits more than human life.

What an ignorant post. Preventive care programs are already free for most large health plans.
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Insurance programs really should come with gym memberships.
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If the insurance companies would deny people's treatment equally then it would probably get fixed. If Paul Ryan's child had cancer and his insurance wouldn't pay for it, then it would probably show him how fucked up the situation is (although he could pay for the treatment out of pocket).

But healthcare in America is a privilege. It's on the same level as a luxury car or home.

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Insurance programs really should come with gym memberships.

One thing that is doing a lot of good is gamified health. Things like Ingress and Pokemon Go and other apps that are similar but more focused on the health aspects of walking a lot.

One of the apps within our platform encourages people to walk/complete missions and if they do that they can redeem coins for real rewards. Like gift cards and electronics and shit. As that type of software gets rolled out more, we may see a difference in the broader population.

Virtual reality games might be the silver bullet to curbing obesity once and for all.
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Dude I'd fully support two hour recess
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Asherlee10 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

We can't afford it because obesity and smoking are already costing the system a shit ton of tax dollars each year. And we're just getting more obese as a nation.

Gotta solve those before we commit to using taxes to fund healthcare, otherwise we'll need to raise taxes regularly. Which is also not a good solution.

Wouldn't UHC include programs to help people stop smoking and reduce obesity? I always imagined that UHC includes preventative care.

Those programs are already available for free for the millions of people on the largest health plans in the country.

Yet we aren't seeing the results we need to see.

Imo what needs to happen is that schools need to be mandated to have two hours allocated to physical activity and nutrition. Take it out of the time being used to innoculate the kids with third wave feminist bullshit or something.

The current generation is probably too fat to change tbqh.

I don't think you are wrong about more physical activity in school, and even better nutritional education.

However, I'm not sure that our current programs hold much weight (though some) when talking about UHC. People aren't often going to take advantage of free, optional programs. And what I'm about to say may be too authoritarian, but make that shit required with UHC.

Do you really want Big Brother knocking down your door and asking why you didn't exercise today and why you ate that bag of chips?

I'd rather live in a free society where people can make their own choices and where we don't have to subsidize someone's bad behaviors and the state's intrusion into privacy.
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Balrog0 posted...

Dude I'd fully support two hour recess

Do it. You're a politician aren't you?

A long amount of recess means more physical activity and more socialization between the kids. We need more of those as a species.

Ideally not in the form of an additional two days at school, since quality > quantity.

2 hours of recess (include VR and AR games as options)
1 hour of math
1 hour of science
1 hour of history
1 hour art
2 hours optional electives
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Balrog0 posted...

Dude I'd fully support two hour recess

Do it. You're a politician aren't you?

A long amount of recess means more physical activity and more socialization between the kids. We need more of those as a species.

Ideally not in the form of an additional two days at school, since quality > quantity.

2 hours of recess (include VR and AR games as options)
1 hour of math
1 hour of science
1 hour of history
1 hour art
2 hours optional electives

2 hours of recess is awful. I'd say 45 minutes is perfect, since there's less lunch stress.
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Americans don't make sense until you realise they all actually hate each other. That's why it's a violent crime filled he'll hole where community is dead and togetherness is reviled unless it's in the form of worshiping flags songs or other superficial crap. Seriously, just post a topic in here about wanting kids or sitting down to eat dinner with your family and see the snide narcissistic replies you get. They hate anything that takes the focus away from them as an individual and are mega defensive towards anything that challenges that. Including universal healthcare.

Universal healthcare support is growing due to failure of the ACA and the corruption of insurance companies.
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