Current Events > How the Koch Brothers Are Killing Public Transit Projects Around the Country

(+) Yeah! (+)

In places like Nashville, Koch-financed activists are finding tremendous success.
Early polling here had suggested that the $5.4 billion transit plan would easily pass. It was backed by the citys popular mayor and a coalition of businesses. Its supporters had outspent the opposition, and Nashville was choking on cars.
But the outcome of the May 1 ballot stunned the city: a landslide victory for the anti-transit camp, which attacked the plan as a colossal waste of taxpayers money.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/climate/koch-brothers-public-transit.html

The leaders of the republicans.

Pathetic
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spudger posted...

a colossal waste of taxpayers money

Correct
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yes there is evil in the world

John_Galt posted...

spudger posted...

a colossal waste of taxpayers money

Correct

I doubt you have any clue on how to spend tax dollars.
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Omnislasher posted...

yes there is evil in the world

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Omnislasher posted...

yes there is evil in the world

And that evil is public transit, yuck
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Kineth posted...

John_Galt posted...

spudger posted...

a colossal waste of taxpayers money

Correct

I doubt you have any clue on how to spend tax dollars.

California has some if not the highest taxes in the States, do you know why that is.
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Tropicalwood posted...

Kineth posted...

John_Galt posted...

spudger posted...

a colossal waste of taxpayers money

Correct

I doubt you have any clue on how to spend tax dollars.

California has some if not the highest taxes in the States, do you know why that is.

as i live here i know one big reason: gas and pollution taxes. which would alleviate with proper public transportation.

kochs are evil shit. dont try to change that.
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Tropicalwood posted...

Kineth posted...

John_Galt posted...

spudger posted...

a colossal waste of taxpayers money

Correct

I doubt you have any clue on how to spend tax dollars.

California has some if not the highest taxes in the States, do you know why that is.

Are you seriously trying to defend John_Galt? I figured I'd ask since we're asking irrelevant questions.
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what's the koch brothers' end-game? Seems meaningless to invest all that money and time on social engineering when you are already a billionaire
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Kineth posted...

Tropicalwood posted...

Kineth posted...

John_Galt posted...

spudger posted...

a colossal waste of taxpayers money

Correct

I doubt you have any clue on how to spend tax dollars.

California has some if not the highest taxes in the States, do you know why that is.

Are you seriously trying to defend John_Galt? I figured I'd ask since we're asking irrelevant questions.

Doesn't matter what you think of the man, it's a waste of tax payer money that ultimately falls onto citizens that don't in any way benefit from it.
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The Kochs opposition to transit spending stems from their longstanding free-market, libertarian philosophy.

Hmm
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SK8T3R215 posted...

The Kochs opposition to transit spending stems from their longstanding free-market, libertarian philosophy.

Hmm

So, it's an ideology thing.
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I live in Nashville and I voted no for that trash transit plan. The plan was a huge waste of money and benefited only a few people.
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It really is amazing how public transit is another one of those things that people have been conditioned to dislike and therefore not support.
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Bio1590 posted...

It really is amazing how public transit is another one of those things that people have been conditioned to dislike and therefore not support.

Conditioned to dislike? More lie conditioned to not like wasting money.
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Every city should have a subway system like New York's. I wish mine had one. I hate having to take the bus. But subways are nice

So public transit is a waste of money now?
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Spending to produce good public transit is an excellent investment into our economy and our people. While public projects can be quite wasteful if funds are misappropriated, outright eliminating plans to invest in public infrastructure is unbelievably stupid.

We need that shit to be the best money can buy.
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And active transportation as well. Cities should be doing all they can to relieve congestion on roadways and that doesn't include "just add more lanes!" because it has been proven time and time again that that doesn't work.
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JBaLLEN66 posted...

Bio1590 posted...

It really is amazing how public transit is another one of those things that people have been conditioned to dislike and therefore not support.

Conditioned to dislike? More lie conditioned to not like wasting money.

Imagine Japan without its railway system lmfao
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It's not a waste of money if it results in long term improvements in how fast you can transport goods and services.
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Fuck trains and buses. Just buy a brand new Ford that only gets 25 miles to the gallon.
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NinjaWarrior455 posted...

Fuck trains and buses. Just buy a brand new Ford that only gets 25 miles to the gallon.

not everyone can drive. also it's more expensive. also it clogs the city. streets get crowded. parking lots are insane. better if everyone just uses a nice subway system.

Zikten posted...

NinjaWarrior455 posted...

Fuck trains and buses. Just buy a brand new Ford that only gets 25 miles to the gallon.

not everyone can drive. also it's more expensive. also it clogs the city. streets get crowded. parking lots are insane. better if everyone just uses a nice subway system.

Pretty sure he was being facetious
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Bio1590 posted...

It really is amazing how public transit is another one of those things that people have been conditioned to dislike and therefore not support.

Maybe if the bus didn't suck so bad...
http://cheadlesucks.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-buses-suck.html
http://www.bradkanus.com/2012/06/riding-the-bus-still-sucks-some-things-never-change.html
https://medium.com/data-in-motion/public-transit-buses-suck-6a0454ffb3c

i won't have to worry about public transit. already have it here. though years ago they ran into financial issues because someone was mismanaging all the money for themselves. they ended up increasing the fare from 1.50$ to 3$ for certain routes and having the buses take longer routes that take 2 hours loop.
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You try taking a bus from the outer suburbs of LA into Downtown LA and see how much time you have to waste in total compared to hopping into your own car and getting to your destination from home to job in downtown LA.

For many people, the time waste isn't worth it even if the cost might be significantly cheaper.

Then there is the fact that there are a lot of people you just don't feel safe around riding with versus driving yourself.
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Tropicalwood posted...

Kineth posted...

Tropicalwood posted...

Kineth posted...

John_Galt posted...

spudger posted...

a colossal waste of taxpayers money

Correct

I doubt you have any clue on how to spend tax dollars.

California has some if not the highest taxes in the States, do you know why that is.

Are you seriously trying to defend John_Galt? I figured I'd ask since we're asking irrelevant questions.

Doesn't matter what you think of the man, it's a waste of tax payer money that ultimately falls onto citizens that don't in any way benefit from it.

So what was the point of asking about California? Your mind was already made up and you were just looking to defend your homeboy.

Also you apparently don't understand how taxes work either.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Bio1590 posted...

It really is amazing how public transit is another one of those things that people have been conditioned to dislike and therefore not support.

Maybe if the bus didn't suck so bad...
http://cheadlesucks.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-buses-suck.html
http://www.bradkanus.com/2012/06/riding-the-bus-still-sucks-some-things-never-change.html
https://medium.com/data-in-motion/public-transit-buses-suck-6a0454ffb3c

Funding might help that.
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The thing is, a lot of the problems with public transit aren't actually "public transit" itself as a concept but rather poor planning when it comes to public transit.

My city ignored it for literal decades and now they're trying to play catch-up with getting expressways and right-of-ways built.
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Even if you don't use public transit, you benefit from it being funded because it gets other cars off the road.

Imagine if everyone who works in downtown Chicago tried to get to work with a car.
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Omnislasher posted...

yes there is evil in the world

And it's liberals. Right?
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Kineth posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Bio1590 posted...

It really is amazing how public transit is another one of those things that people have been conditioned to dislike and therefore not support.

Maybe if the bus didn't suck so bad...
http://cheadlesucks.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-buses-suck.html
http://www.bradkanus.com/2012/06/riding-the-bus-still-sucks-some-things-never-change.html
https://medium.com/data-in-motion/public-transit-buses-suck-6a0454ffb3c

Funding might help that.

For five and a half billion dollars, the goddamn bus better have an open bar and a masseuse.

Nashville: "The traffic is fucking HORRIBLE here!"

Also Nashville: "A modest increase in taxes for public transportation that would vastly decrease traffic? FUCK THAT!"

clearaflagrantj posted...

Nashville: "The traffic is fucking HORRIBLE here!"

Also Nashville: "A modest increase in taxes for public transportation that would vastly decrease traffic? FUCK THAT!"

That's just misguided.
The bus is considered "poverty transportation", as anyone who can afford a car doesn't even think to take the bus.
https://www.wired.com/2013/12/brt-middle-class/

What a pair of doucheknuckles

Public transit is one of the few things I miss about living in Mass. I could get damn near anywhere without having to drive myself via train and bus.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

Nashville: "The traffic is fucking HORRIBLE here!"

Also Nashville: "A modest increase in taxes for public transportation that would vastly decrease traffic? FUCK THAT!"

That's just misguided.
The bus is considered "poverty transportation", as anyone who can afford a car doesn't even think to take the bus.
https://www.wired.com/2013/12/brt-middle-class/

Bio1590 posted...

It really is amazing how public transit is another one of those things that people have been conditioned to dislike and therefore not support.

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The Koch brothers are great. Patriotic philanthropists who have chosen to use their fortune for the betterment of the country. Funny how the left has no issue with George Soros using his money to influence politics
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Questionmarktarius posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

Nashville: "The traffic is fucking HORRIBLE here!"

Also Nashville: "A modest increase in taxes for public transportation that would vastly decrease traffic? FUCK THAT!"

That's just misguided.
The bus is considered "poverty transportation", as anyone who can afford a car doesn't even think to take the bus.
https://www.wired.com/2013/12/brt-middle-class/

Maybe, but my experience in Chicago has been different. More and more people are coming around to the idea that driving to work every day is bullshit and that maybe taking the train and walking a bit is much better since it unclogs the roads, gives you time to read on the train, etc.

I think more people would come around to using public transportation if they had access to awesome public transportation in the first place.
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Bio1590 posted...

It really is amazing how public transit is another one of those things that people have been conditioned to dislike and therefore not support.

They weren't conditioned to dislike it, they were subjected to it and said fuck that.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

I think more people would come around to using public transportation if they had access to awesome public transportation in the first place.

Isn't this the operating theory behind Lyft and Uber?
If the demand is there, one of those (or another upstart) may expand into busses.

Go look at the legendary googlebus: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/10/technology/10google.html

Questionmarktarius posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

I think more people would come around to using public transportation if they had access to awesome public transportation in the first place.

Isn't this the operating theory behind Lyft and Uber?
If the demand is there, one of those (or another upstart) may expand into busses.

If there was more profit per seat with a bus, we might. But probably not, since a bus needs to operate along a consistent route and that means you need to work with the city to establish the route and the protocols and whatnot. So ultimately you end up being a government organization anyway.

Given the degree of organization that needs to happen when building a solution that affects millions of people...we need government or some central authority to regulate and monitor how things are implemented. A private entity can often times do a better job at producing services/solutions for the mass market, but for things like transportation the mass market might not be the most profitable market.

I'd trust the private sector to excel in things like space exploration or space travel, but not so much when it comes to roads or public transportation.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Go look at the legendary googlebus: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/10/technology/10google.html

This proves my point, I think. That shuttle is reserved for the workers because it's the avenue that most benefits Google's bottom line. You wouldn't see Google expand that to random cities/people, would you? Because they wouldn't make any money off of it.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

If there was more profit per seat with a bus, we might. But probably not, since a bus needs to operate along a consistent route and that means you need to work with the city to establish the route and the protocols and whatnot.

"Uber for carpools" still seems like an untapped market niche to me.

clearaflagrantj posted...

modest increase in taxes

Highest sales tax in the entire country

"Modest"

Good on the Koch brothers. Find alternative ways to get these projects done without fleecing your citizens
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After moving to Pittsburgh, I do really have to say that funding for public transportation is really important.

Getting into downtown Pittsburgh should only take 25 minutes or so, but due to massive traffic congestion leading to the tunnels, it takes an hour and a half. Tripling my commute.

Public transportation takes around 45 minutes. Which sucks but it's better than trying to drive on the roads. Fun fact: Busses, trains, everything is almost completely packed in the mornings and afternoons (I don't know about mid morning, etc), so if all funding for this type of transportation were to be removed, it'd become impossible to get into downtown Pittsburgh from the southern side without it taking an additional .5 to 1.5 hours due to the influx of cars (because it's not like those people would suddenly not need to go to work or something).

So Pittsburgh's transportation isn't bad, but it pales in comparison to, like, New York.

Some areas just can't have that many cars driving or traffic congestion would reach quintupling your commute, if not more.
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So our trains will never be as good as Japan's?
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XImperialDragon posted...

Some areas just can't have that many cars driving or traffic congestion would reach quintupling your commute, if not more.

The greater part of this problem is everyone trying to get into or out of town all at the same time.
Gridlock at 8AM, tumbleweeds at 10. Repeat again at 5PM.

John_Galt posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

modest increase in taxes

Highest sales tax in the entire country

"Modest"

Good on the Koch brothers. Find alternative ways to get these projects done without fleecing your citizens

This. If the public transportation was actually good and worthwhile, then the people would pay to use it and its costs would be covered. That's not the case, so they have to essentially steal money from the citizens to pay for their financially irresponsible bullshit.
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