Current Events > The worst part of the DCEU is how its fans make excuses for and defend Snyder.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Stuff like "well BvS or Justice League would've been good if they gave Snyder more creative freedom and let him edit the movie how he wants"

Or "release the Snyder Cut for Justice League!"

They did that with BvS. The movie still had the same problems in Justice League, there was just more of it.

In terms of tying together story and character, Snyder is a rather poor director. Not sure why that's so hard to face.
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I bet JL was still a better movie than TLJ
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PanzerElite posted...

what a weird username
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Wait, wait, wait....

The guy who had Batman gunning enemies down and Superman knocking down buildings wasn't given enough creative freedom? What, were we robbed of his artistic vision where the heroes teabagged the corpses of their victims?

'Cause I'm sure allowing him to deviate further from the source material is just what those movies would've needed to have been better.

Skye Reynolds posted...

Wait, wait, wait....

The guy who had Batman gunning enemies down and Superman knocking down buildings wasn't given enough creative freedom? What, were we robbed of his artistic vision where the heroes teabagged the corpses of their victims?

'Cause I'm sure allowing him to deviate further from the source material is just what those movies would've needed to have been better.

For real
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Doom_Art posted...

PanzerElite posted...

what a weird username

https://gamefaqs.akamaized.net/box/9/8/8/5988_front.jpg
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Skye Reynolds posted...

The guy who had Batman gunning enemies down and Superman knocking down buildings wasn't given enough creative freedom?

I've seen this argument used to explain why Justice League sucked.

And to be fair, the idea of Superman knocking down buildings and causing collateral damage shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

Particularly in an origin movie like Man of Steel, that could be where Superman's carefulness and "world of cardboard" mentality comes from. Of course assuming that's what Snyder intended would be giving far too much credit, I think.
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Doom_Art posted...

Of course assuming that's what Snyder intended would be giving far too much credit, I think.

Nah. There are actually a lot of obscure comic references in BvS like KGBeast even being acknowledged shows he's significantly more knowledgeable about comics than the average person.
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Could be worse, could be the other fandom that harass and send death threat to actors
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WellKnownNomad posted...

Could be worse, could be the other fandom that harass and send death threat to actors

Death threats to actors because of things their character did.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Nah. There are actually a lot of obscure comic references in BvS like KGBeast even being acknowledged shows he's significantly more knowledgeable about comics than the average person.

Given his lack of understanding of the characters that make up his films, I'd have to argue against that.

Or at the very least argue that his understanding is pretty flawed
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Tyranthraxus posted...

WellKnownNomad posted...

Could be worse, could be the other fandom that harass and send death threat to actors

Death threats to actors because of things their character did.

or just being a female lead :P
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Doom_Art posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Nah. There are actually a lot of obscure comic references in BvS like KGBeast even being acknowledged shows he's significantly more knowledgeable about comics than the average person.

Given his lack of understanding of the characters that make up his films, I'd have to argue against that.

Or at the very least argue that his understanding is pretty flawed

Nah, he understands very well, he just has opinions that are contrary like "my favorite versions of Superman are when he's a villain" and he used those movies as opportunities to try to get other people to agree with him except the average moviegoers don't give a shit about comics-as-philosophy.
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Except Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman were both fantastic films.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

"my favorite versions of Superman are when he's a villain"

None of this comes across in any of the films he's done, or at the very least is at a very base or flimsy level.

Tyranthraxus posted...

average moviegoers don't give a shit about comics-as-philosophy.

You're reeeeeaaaaaallllly giving him way too much credit here lol.

You can argue that that's what his trying to do. My argument is if that's the case, he's doing a very poor job of it.
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He is a shit director. His DotD remake should have been enough proof.
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PanzerElite posted...

bet JL was still a better movie than TLJ

It was better than TLJ .

BvS on the other hand might be in the same basket.
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cjsdowg posted...

PanzerElite posted...

bet JL was still a better movie than TLJ

It was better than TLJ .

BvS on the other hand might be in the same basket.

Remember when Lois Lane shot laser beams out of her eyes?

Of course you don't because that didn't fucking happen.
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I'm noticing far less rabid defending of the DC cinematic movies as of late. Both on forums and YouTube when someone justifiably critiques the shit out of them. I think people overall have finally accepted what a trainwreck this sad attempt of a MCU clone has been. And that Snyder's whole "vision" for it was a complete farce. Glad he seems out of the picture for good now. Wonder Woman at the very least was quality and I have my fingers crossed Matt Reeves' take on Batman will be as well
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AquaLion posted...

I'm noticing far less rabid defending of the DC cinematic movies as of late. Both on forums and YouTube when someone justifiably critiques the shit out of them. I think people overall have finally accepted what a trainwreck this sad attempt of a MCU clone has been. And that Snyder's whole "vision" for it was a complete farce. Glad he seems out of the picture for good now. Wonder Woman at the very least was quality and I have my fingers crossed Matt Reeves' take on Batman will be as well

Mark my words.

Wan's Aquaman is going to be fucking awesome.
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Doom_Art posted...

Particularly in an origin movie like Man of Steel, that could be where Superman's carefulness and "world of cardboard" mentality comes from. Of course assuming that's what Snyder intended would be giving far too much credit, I think.

That's kind of the route I saw the movies going. Don't get wrong, it's not without it's flaws (still don't agree with him not saving Pa Kent), but an all powerful alien living in a cardboard world would be seen as villain. Not by all but look how divisive we are in today's world and it's totally believable.

The only thing that threw me off with Batman being so gun heavy is that Joker was still alive but I just took that as a Bat gearing up against the all powerful being that was Superman.

The Ultimate Edition of BVS was so much easier to digest. The cuts weren't nearly as jarring, Superman came out looking better, and Clark got more information about how the Batman is not really one to be reasoned with.

Again, that movie wasn't perfect (JL intro was pretty lame and the whole Martha thing) but Snyder gave me a philosophical comic book movie with characters, cameos, and comic panel shots so deep cut that you know the guy knows his material. In a way, he's making an else world movie with Earth 1 characters.

That's why Justice League is so frustrating. They undercut a dude from finishing a trilogy with a clear vision. Instead, we got two thirds of a story with a tacked on finish.

Kind of like JJ Abrahms starting TFA and Rian Johnson saying Eff that and starting-a-new but picking up directly where last film left off TLJ.
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KrayzieBonezz posted...

Kind of like JJ Abrahms starting TFA and Rian Johnson saying Eff that and starting-a-new but picking up directly where last film left off TLJ.

That's almost what happened to JL except Joss Whedon was only able to replace small portions of the movie but you can tell it was almost always for the worse.

Snyder: "Do you remember what I said? About the ring?"
Whedon: "You smell nice." "You mean I didn't before!?!!"

One Whedon edit I actually really enjoyed was the contest between Flash and Superman about evacuating civilians. It reminds me a bit of that contest between Gimli and Legolas.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

One Whedon edit I actually really enjoyed was the contest between Flash and Superman about evacuating civilians. It reminds me a bit of that contest between Gimli and Legolas.

Even on a grander story telling aspect though it got shafted. The fact that Steppen Wolf was supposed to try and recruit a corrupted Superman to bring the nightmare sequence from BVS into fruition. Or Steppen Wolf getting drug back to Apokolips to get punished or killed by Darkseid for his second failure on Earth and emerge as the true villain of the whole thing. This is some comic book s***.

They took out so much of the movie I wanted see and was waiting to see. It just sucks and Snyder has to get drug through the dirt for it. Dude was finally going to give me Darkseid on the big screen.
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KrayzieBonezz posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

One Whedon edit I actually really enjoyed was the contest between Flash and Superman about evacuating civilians. It reminds me a bit of that contest between Gimli and Legolas.

Even on a grander story telling aspect though it got shafted. The fact that Steppen Wolf was supposed to try and recruit a corrupted Superman to bring the nightmare sequence from BVS into fruition. Or Steppen Wolf getting drug back to Apokolips to get punished or killed by Darkseid for his second failure on Earth and emerge as the true villain of the whole thing. This is some comic book s***.

They took out so much of the movie I wanted see and was waiting to see. It just sucks and Snyder has to get drug through the dirt for it. Dude was finally going to give me Darkseid on the big screen.

You see what he did to Doomsday and you trust him with Darkseid ?
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I once saw someone on the Theater board use the following statement to defend the. DCEU:

The DCEU is the Donald Trump of superhero movies.
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cjsdowg posted...

You see what he did to Doomsday and you trust him with Darkseid ?

Hell yeah. He gave me a Doomsday who grew more and more spikes as the fight went on. That's a guy that can come back as easily as Superman and if he did in a later movie, you already feel the threat.

I read comics. Dude knows his comics. He just had some different interpretations and in a world where we've already had a hand full of Batman and Superman movies, I'm all for a vision that's a little different.
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Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition is actually a really good film and answers a lot of the problems that the theatrical cut had.

If we had the original Snyder cut of Justice League, perhaps it would have been a better film.

I like Man of Steel. It gets a bum rap.
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PanzerElite posted...

I bet JL was still a better movie than TLJ

They're both terrible. TLJ at least wasn't an eyesore to look at.
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BvS was pretty good and the Martha thing is overblown.
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I still really like MoS. Was watching it yesterday again. But the more times I watch it, the more Pa Kent seems like a straight up psychopath.

BvS is a lot of fun, but the best thing about it is the absolutely over the top Hans Zimmer score. It's so haunting and etched in my mind.

There was really nothing good about Justice League however. It left nothing but a bad taste.
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The negativity to both MoS and BvS are overblown (haven't seen JL).

Sure both deserve critisism but the hate they receive is way out of proportion, especially when compared to actual horrible films (granted they usually don't have the same budget, but still). The same with TLJ.
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cjsdowg posted...

You see what he did to Doomsday and you trust him with Darkseid ?

Let's not pretend Doomsday is in anyway above his characterization or adaptation in MoS. Doomsday has always been "The monster that killed Superman" nothing more, nothing less. Hell you could make the argument that his BvS version is more fleshed out than his Death of Superman version.
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No excuses needed. BvS was a good movie. Just let him finish JL and it would've been the same.
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