Board 8 > Blade Mafia 11 - when the punter makes the next topic you know something is off

(+) Yeah! (+)

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Luckily for me I just might see a day 6 given town has two obvious powers now and you are beginning to get paranoid. What an amazing game this is.

Paranoid about what? jesus christ chris this isn't about you, I'm just asking some damn questions about mzero/corrik

pxlated posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

'Why risk ..."

Because people like you will get paranoid. It isn't about today. Scum needs 2 mislynches total to win. No one has really cleared me. Dels has but... and now corrik has. But while I am awesome I wasnt dowolf or you status. They killed a reasonable townie who everyone knew was town.

Sadly for them I am back to calm.

right but if you're town scum ought to be shitting themselves that you're still around because you're at this point the most motivated and logical player left. if they got you mislynched and you flipped town you would absolutely leave a mountain of evidence behind that would direct the town towards the rest of the scum.

which i see as either you're scum or you've been pretty wrong in your stated theories thus far

Was I being logical yesterday? I don't remember that really. I remember dowolf being far more logical and calm than me.
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Dels posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Luckily for me I just might see a day 6 given town has two obvious powers now and you are beginning to get paranoid. What an amazing game this is.

Paranoid about what? jesus christ chris this isn't about you, I'm just asking some damn questions about mzero/corrik

... Honey, I was talking to Pxl calm down.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dels posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Luckily for me I just might see a day 6 given town has two obvious powers now and you are beginning to get paranoid. What an amazing game this is.

Paranoid about what? jesus christ chris this isn't about you, I'm just asking some damn questions about mzero/corrik

... Honey, I was talking to Pxl calm down.

Yeah I just realized this, sorry.

i mean you and corrik were the only two people i saw doing serious legwork. granted, you got sidetracked eventually. and corrik is corrik.

honestly though i skipped over a large portion of yesterday's posts
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Anyway thank you for falling for one of scum's traps, pxl, this will ensure I live longer what an amazing game this is ^_^.

But as for the latter (me being wrong) if you see mzero today it is obvious he is scum and since my PoE has always had both leo and mzero in it clearly I can't be too brutally off track so far, so that just leaves me being scum. Which honestly I am prepared to vigorously defend myself against.
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Dels posted...

Well, we considered that as an option yesterday, didn't we? Leo said, and I think corrik said, and I said, and even death, we all said that yes, this would be a good time to do a 1-for-1. It was honestly a plausible theory. But I never saw it as being plausible enough that we'd actually lynch MZero there. I guess it's possible that scum hoped town would realize that it was a good time for a 1-for-1, but eh, that's kind of... risky.

It would be a good time for a 1-for-1, which is why if MZero flipped scum, we'd be sure that's what he was going for, which would "clear" Leo in our eyes.

The risk of having Leo lynched is obviously a legit point to bring up, hence why I'm not actually voting MZero or anything right now, as I don't want to blindingly accept that scum would attempt such a risky gambit in a situation that didn't seem all that bad for them.

Dels posted...

(Thanks for actually discussing it with me btw Panthera. I want to look at every angle here, hell, we have lots of time to do so)

The other game I was in has now ended in an apathy-induced draw. I have time and inclination to actually think now lol

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Panthera should recognize those type of posts!

Strangely, this does not give me much faith in you...!

(I'll re-read them eventually I promise, maybe once I'm the only one left awake...)
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pxlated posted...

Also: after we lynched scum yesterday, if neither of the claimed trackers was being killed (continuing to block me does make sense as I have been useless to town), why is Chris alive?

Why take the risk on some meta WiFom "let's try and get suspicion on Chris for being alive still" when we aren't at lylo and if we did mislynch him, we have all of the evidence against others he would surely come up with to use the next day.

Going after leo with his unique role, as his scum buddy is...an interesting gambit, and certainly hard to explain. But as i see it, not harder to explain than why the fuck is Chris alive

so about this

dowolf was definitely more trusted than chris, right?

its not the weirdest kill imo

Basically remember when I began the game by being really useless and just dumb and bullshitted.

Scum has literally allowed town sir chris to live to day 5 and is now hoping to invoke rule # 1

... a rule which has never been successfully invoked on a town sir chris in my 10 years playing mafia here.

:)
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Although for real, do you feel your original thoughts still hold up well enough now that MZero has come in and...done whatever it is he did?
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Panthera posted...

Although for real, do you feel your original thoughts still hold up well enough now that MZero has come in and...done whatever it is he did?

Man, he was in my PoE of 4 okay? It isn't like I towncleared him I just thought he was least likely of my PoE. I think my Poe is pure, yes.
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So let's talk about my methods of mafia briefly.

I am bad at knowing what makes someone scum usually (Panthera has seen an exception to this in puns' game, a rarity and when that happens scum is usually going to kill me night 1 because that's God Mod Can't Lose Games version of me) but really good at town reading.

For example, the fact that I knew what Corrik did before he revealed it by reading his posts? Do you know how inside a player's mindset you have to be to trace step by step his actions and understand his mentality? If Corrik is scum and for me to have guessed his intent but not his alignment? It's like saying something is a cow but thinking it is from Mars when you're on earth.

I satdn by my other town reads similarly and am okay discussing each of them.

So once I get to my PoE, it's my PoE. I can rank them (incorrectly apparently) but they are PoE'd.

Now as you know I always say this is non binding, meaning my PoE can be refined given new data.
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Okay Chris I'm gonna go ahead and quote for you every post I directed to you that you haven't answered. Make it easy for you.

holy shit there's no good way to format this on gamefaqs. damn.

Dels posted...

You know, Dels is helpful. I cleared Shad because day 4 Corrik was hinting that Eaed HAD to be scum. But, with that scan revoked my observation that I cleared Shad from being scumbuddies with eaed and scumbuddies with Corrik holds no meaning. If those are both town there is no reason to believe Shaduln has to be town anymore. Thank you, Dels-kun.

@DoomTheGyarados Can you eli5 what this paragraph means?

Dels posted...

There is a genius if Dels is scum of basically going 'wow Chris, you're f***ing awesome and then going wait Chris, one mistake you made here when I PoE'd a scum buddy with faulty logic due to a Corrik lie. It only takes one mistake to put us up against a wall and I think a scum player of Dels' ability has to have faith he can force one mislynch to win the game at that point, and if he can't he isn't sweating it because he did a very viable strategy and that's all well and good.

Can you explain this one too? I have no idea what you're on about.

Dels posted...

Plus not going to lie Leo really came off as salty that inactive Mzero kicked his ass when he is awesome and nice and funny. The whole 'follow the scanner' thing really felt genuinely ragey in a sea of meta. I am very hesitant to clear anyone based off of Leo as he is super good at meta but Mzero comes off sincere here which helps.

Hmmmm.

Talk to me about this, Chris.

You say Leo was salty and mad.

I say Leo seemed energized, joyful, having fun.

That's the one thing (now that I'm realizing Corrik is literally claiming to have scanned Mzero as scum, and must consider the possibility of bussing seriously) that makes me think it could be theatre.

It is true, Leo sometimes, as town or as mafia, has a tendency to deflate and fizzle out.

He didn't here.

I never got the sense that Leo was really bad. He seemed to enjoy the thrill of the fight.

So, in a vacuum, I might actually read it as w/w theatre, not as salty.

What do you think?

More posts for you Chris

Dels posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Because I know there is no way they used Mzero for the night kill when he claimed odd night tracker.

Hm?

If the town had mass-claimed, which they did, and no one else had a tracker/watcher role (right?)

then what's the danger in having Mzero send the kill?

The other scum could be claimed vanillas who also wouldn't want to be seen getting up even if that is the case, right?

Dels posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Basically why would a town Mzero do anything but go "I watched Zach. Leo targeted him."

Oh don't worry, I'll tell you why ;)

Because a scum Mzero couldn't fake a watch before mass claim was done because if he did he'd be caught lying~

Sorry, again I am dumb, can you help me with this?

Mzero says his real action was that he watched Zach night 3... and therefore he saw that Zach was killed by Leo?

And instead of saying that, he said that he actually tracked Leo to Zach?

To keep scum from knowing his real role?

Okay. Setting aside the fact that that is dumb, why couldn't he have faked a watch? Because if someone else targeted Zach he'd be screwed?

Also, I asked this earlier, if it was already answered, then nvm:

Why the hell would scum Mzero fake an action on someone who was going to flip paranoid roleblocker? Are the only theories atm, a) that mzero thought he would actually die instead of leo, and b) that mzero always planned to reveal today that he was "lying"?

Dels posted...

Ok so

Chris

Here's a question that I need your help with (because I can't think for myself and need your opinions to guide me)

And it involves putting yourself in my shoes, which surely you can do

You said that mzero can ONLY be scum if I am scum

This makes sense because I was the one in danger of being lynched (assuming people listened to you, which they usually do) so the only reason to just randomly bus would be to deflect?

I mean, I said yesterday that it could only be mzero scum/leo town if I was scum, because if I'm town then mzero has no reason to force a mislynch, he could let me die

I believe the same still applies here, because if I'm town, why randomly do this gambit, right?

So now, (and since you have this day on lock, you have plenty of time to entertain hypotheticals), put yourself in my shoes

I know I am town

Why then, should I believe that Mzero did this as scum?

What is the reason for pulling this game instead of just letting me get lynched?

" You know, Dels is helpful. I cleared Shad because day 4 Corrik was hinting that Eaed HAD to be scum. But, with that scan revoked my observation that I cleared Shad from being scumbuddies with eaed and scumbuddies with Corrik holds no meaning. If those are both town there is no reason to believe Shaduln has to be town anymore. Thank you, Dels-kun."

I cleared Shad because I don't think he can be scum mates with Corrik or Ashe. When I cleared him corrik was fake hinting a scan on ashe and if that had been true one of them had to be scum, thus I cleared shad due to no scum team possible. But corrik took that back so I had to update it.

...Better?

and the secodn one didn't matter because mzero claimed scum so I guess leo's play acting is stronger than even I thought, so mzero moved from # 4 on my poe power rankings to # 1
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Scoured topic10 pre-mzero claim and can't find any reads from dowolf except that he thought corrik was town from han interaction

Did you have anything in mind Chris?

Going back further than that is annoying and I honestly mostly just remember dowolf talking about Corrik that day

Was curious about the kill. Maybe it was a pure everyone knew he was town and he isn't burned like pxl came off. Thanks.
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So Dels let's talk.

If I told you we're going to lynch Mzero today, Death tomorrow, and Shad the day after that.

Is the game over?
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I cleared Shad because I don't think he can be scum mates with Corrik or Ashe. When I cleared him corrik was fake hinting a scan on ashe and if that had been true one of them had to be scum, thus I cleared shad due to no scum team possible. But corrik took that back so I had to update it.

...Better?

Eh. Only sort of. But it's enough. (it's not your fault, i am sure your explanation makes sense - I am just slow and having trouble understanding - but it doesn't seem relevant - i thought you had shad as town from not-w/w interactions from past topics, didn't realize it was from corrik's fake scan partly)

and the secodn one didn't matter because mzero claimed scum so I guess leo's play acting is stronger than even I thought, so mzero moved from # 4 on my poe power rankings to # 1

eh i guess. was hoping for a better answer than "well now i know corrik is town and mzero is scum so yep its theatre". but fair enough.

you missed the one in the middle.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

So Dels let's talk.

If I told you we're going to lynch Mzero today, Death tomorrow, and Shad the day after that.

Is the game over?

yeah i sort of have already come around to agreeing with you there despite an hour ago saying i didn't

but i really don't know anything about shad so that's mostly from trusting you and giving panthera the benefit of the doubt

that said i still wanna poke at all the holes in the mzero theory and make sure it actually lines up (and not just because I'd love for corrik to be scum)

I have no idea why Mzero did what he did, honestly. Buuut given that he didn't give a night 2 scan and the fact that a town mzero had no reason to lie (see I can't always answer scum motives, but I can answer town motives much better and not finding a town reason is often how I arrive at scum) it is a moot point that will be answered when I see the scum board post game.
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Also Mzero is bad at mafia and panicked and didn't wait for his team to help him. Because the smart scum play here is to be like "um...wtf Corrik? I didn't move" and Corrik has cried wolf so much he had a chance. I mean granted I probably end up believing Corrik eventually but I wasn't sold right away.
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MZero11 posted...

Corrik isn't actually wrong. I did visit dowolf!

Ok I did a little gambit not expecting Leo to flip paranoid blocker. Figured I wouldn't give scum more info than I needed to get the lynch but now I've been exposed

full disclosure: I have 2 tracks and 2 watches, basically like a Jack. I actually watched Zach night 3 but thought I would keep scum in the dark about my true role. Obviously scum knew I was lying because they knew Leo's role and are trying to mislynch me for it

So yeah, last night I watched dowolf. Strong player with almost no mislynch potential at this point. Guess who else visited him?

##Vote: Corrik

Nice try scum. Back to work now see you in a few hours

This post could not have come off more scripted.

"I DID WHAT I DID NOT EXPECTING LEO TO FLIP PARANOID ROLEBLOCKER. LOOK HOW GENUINE I AM, FELLOW TOWNIES."

Confusing play by Mzero yesterday, but I guess it didn't end up mattering much.
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Also didn't claim his real role name either btw.

Rushed scum post that he felt obligated to spit out because he probably did have to go back to work. But things no townie would leave out.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

For example, the fact that I knew what Corrik did before he revealed it by reading his posts? Do you know how inside a player's mindset you have to be to trace step by step his actions and understand his mentality? If Corrik is scum and for me to have guessed his intent but not his alignment? It's like saying something is a cow but thinking it is from Mars when you're on earth.

If Corrik really is town, then your ability to somehow see through his entire string of fakeclaims and lies and figure out the reason for all of them is really impressive

considering I look at him and all I see is a mess of stuff that I can't even begin to decipher and would rather totally ignore

Also how the fuck would a scum corrik have that information on Mzero.

Why would scum watch dowolf if they were killing him or track mzero (instead of MURDERING him since they knew something was amiss)

Look Mzero is dead okay sorry I will stop beating the dead horse.

WHICH MEANS...

TIME FOR MY FAVORITE GAME...

....Mzero interactions !!!
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Why wouldn't corrik fake the scan on ashe as scum.

Or Dels

Does mzero think the scum team is corrik/dels/ashe then?

I mean look I am sorry I am just being mean at this point to Mzero but scum, this is why you always kill me. What are you doing?
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eh

so essentially your answer to all the questions about why mzero would do this is

"i don't know, but he did, so whatever"?

that's fair i guess but meh

that said, you did say mzero could ONLY be scum if I am scum

does that override that? could he be scum doing a crazy stupid risky badly-played gambit, on a day when a townie (me) was gonna be lynched?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Also how the fuck would a scum corrik have that information on Mzero.

Why would scum watch dowolf if they were killing him or track mzero (instead of MURDERING him since they knew something was amiss)

Look Mzero is dead okay sorry I will stop beating the dead horse.

WHICH MEANS...

TIME FOR MY FAVORITE GAME...

....Mzero interactions !!!

oh shit, yeah

for mzero to be town, that means corrik still somehow knew (or guessed) that mzero did visit dowolf

LOL

Dels posted...

eh

so essentially your answer to all the questions about why mzero would do this is

"i don't know, but he did, so whatever"?

that's fair i guess but meh

that said, you did say mzero could ONLY be scum if I am scum

does that override that? could he be scum doing a crazy stupid risky badly-played gambit, on a day when a townie (me) was gonna be lynched?

You know what Dels? Sure.

You aren't out of my PoE of 2.3 scum, but sure. Mzero is officially nuts so sure.
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sorry for being useless and trying to make sure the case against obvious scum is airtight

(not sarcasm)

i'm dejected because the mzero townread was the ONE thing I had in this game

the ONE thing

=(

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dels posted...

eh

so essentially your answer to all the questions about why mzero would do this is

"i don't know, but he did, so whatever"?

that's fair i guess but meh

that said, you did say mzero could ONLY be scum if I am scum

does that override that? could he be scum doing a crazy stupid risky badly-played gambit, on a day when a townie (me) was gonna be lynched?

You know what Dels? Sure.

You aren't out of my PoE of 2.3 scum, but sure. Mzero is officially nuts so sure.

eh, I'll take it

let's keep working on seeing if death/shad can be the other two?

and by "let's keep working" I mean you will work and I will be here to provide a moderately low level of support)

remind me why you had the townread of death and why those reasons don't hold up anymore?

I trust my Progressive PoE tbqh.

More information I have, the more I refine it.

Leo and Zero CROSSED OFF THE LIST.
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Dels posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dels posted...

eh

so essentially your answer to all the questions about why mzero would do this is

"i don't know, but he did, so whatever"?

that's fair i guess but meh

that said, you did say mzero could ONLY be scum if I am scum

does that override that? could he be scum doing a crazy stupid risky badly-played gambit, on a day when a townie (me) was gonna be lynched?

You know what Dels? Sure.

You aren't out of my PoE of 2.3 scum, but sure. Mzero is officially nuts so sure.

eh, I'll take it

let's keep working on seeing if death/shad can be the other two?

and by "let's keep working" I mean you will work and I will be here to provide a moderately low level of support)

remind me why you had the townread of death and why those reasons don't hold up anymore?

Eh just surface level stuff that for my initial PoE I am okay with but when I am really honing in on scum I tighten my standards. See making dowolf earn his town spot to begin the day.
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i don't really mind being in the poe if death and shad are in front of me

corrik sadly proving me wrong with my "you have named 0 scum" which I'm also annoyed about because i wanted to be able to hold that over him in postgame

(unless he's scum, but it doesn't mean anything then)

but in my defense, can you blame me for assuming mzero was town

and also he still thinks me and ashe are scum and that's so not true

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Eh just surface level stuff that for my initial PoE I am okay with but when I am really honing in on scum I tighten my standards. See making dowolf earn his town spot to begin the day.

I'm with you! I felt dowolf held onto the spot but I stopped giving the spot to death, independently of your own reads.

Yeah going to have to sit Corrik down about Ashe here real soon and have a talk.
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Also Dels if you are town I am sad because if you had claimed when I asked I'd have the game down to 3 scum for 3 slots to begin today and I'd be really just balling hard.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Also Dels if you are town I am sad because if you had claimed when I asked I'd have the game down to 3 scum for 3 slots to begin today and I'd be really just balling hard.

oh come on

how the fuck would my claim do that

you are seriously saying that if i had claimed then, i'd be lock town and you'd know the scumteam for sure today?

I did say if you claimed I'd believe it.

I meant that yeah.
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as if scum dels can't post a fucking claim that he probably had ready for days on the scumboard

don't scum typically give town what they want?

scum are WAY more likely to be like "ok here you go" than town

town are stubborn

Dels posted...

as if scum dels can't post a fucking claim that he probably had ready for days on the scumboard

don't scum typically give town what they want?

scum are WAY more likely to be like "ok here you go" than town

town are stubborn

*Sips on the wine*
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dels posted...

as if scum dels can't post a fucking claim that he probably had ready for days on the scumboard

don't scum typically give town what they want?

scum are WAY more likely to be like "ok here you go" than town

town are stubborn

*Sips on the wine*

its not wine

its wine that I'm saying it maybe

but the actual words, in general, are true

Yes but applying 'in general' to the guy who won a fucking outstanding player award in an all star game..!
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its okay though 'cause i don't really need to defend myself 'cause you'll lynch death and shad before me anyway and that probably wins the game

unless panthera is just a kool kat after all

or you're scum in which case it doesn't matter

or corrik is scum and the gambit goes 3-ways lol

ehhhh either way I feel like as scum i would've just given a claim

hell that's not even true

as scum i would've stubbornly held back

TO EMULATE MY TOWN PLAY

pxl how's it going?

do you wanna talk tomorrow?

=)

Basically I am pleased because I think, if I am right (and let's keep pushing) scum can no longer win. But I just need corrik to trust in ashe.

Because Pxl/corrik/me all have dels poe'd as scum, and there aren't enough days left for dels to kill all three of us

Pxl is trusted and can lead that lynch if I die, + if I die every townie isgoing to go "okay follow the dead chris, he seemed to be doing well on that poe thing so far"

same thing with corrik, since I am proclaiming him town and he ate Mzero

and if I am alive I have supreme faith in my ability to ward off rule # 1 (Just like board 8 mafia mafia 2, which this game is turning into for my resume tbqh)
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do you need corrik to trust in ashe?

we can still win even without his vote

also pxl doesn't have shit on me >_> except that she doesn't understand me and she fears what she doesn't understand

See, scum always holds back to emulate town play.

Town sometimes just decides to do weird, random things they don't always do.

That's why it would have confirmed you.
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