Current Events > So all it takes is black people kneeling to the anthem for racists to come out?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jesus conservatives are snowflakes. Find something better to be racist about, not a stupid patriotic song that means NOTHING.

Dan Gilbert's friends, Papa John, etc...
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nationalism is a hell of a drug

I don't care about the kneeling, but to think that song means nothing to you makes me sad.
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DarkProto05 posted...

not a stupid patriotic song that means NOTHING.

If it means nothing then why would black people kneeling during it mean anything?
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

DarkProto05 posted...

not a stupid patriotic song that means NOTHING.

If it means nothing then why would black people kneeling during it mean anything?

because nationalists are petty.

I just love the hypocrisy of the right mocking the left for getting triggered all the time, then this happens and suddenly they all need to change their diapers.
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I have no problem with them kneeling. Trump shouldn't voice an opinion on it either way. But if the NFL, as a business, decides they don't want them kneeling, that is a business operating for its own self interest and whether that decision makes or loses them money should determine how they move forward.

People shouldn't have a problem with them kneeling because it "disrespects the anthem/troops/flag/country", because that is stupid and taking issue with a peaceful protest. However, people can be rightfully bothered by the protest being hinged on a narrative that is rooted in media sensationalism rather than facts.

I don't really understand why they kneel over other things they could do but in any case it's clear the intent is to refuse the proper respectful behavior.

Which, I can understand wanting to protest but the flag represents a whole lot of stuff. Nobody can arrest you for it (which is guaranteed by the right to protest) but when you're making such a bold statement as "everything the flag represents, I refuse to honor" there's naturally gonna be some pushback.
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Saying "only racists were upset that they were kneeling"

Is just as bad as saying "the players are only kneeling because they hate this country"
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Caution999 posted...

Saying "only racists were upset that they were kneeling"

Is just as bad as saying "the players are only kneeling because they hate this country"

Yeah, there is a disconnect between what some people think a symbol means to them and what the other side thinks it means to them. Add in the people who say that the national flag, for example, doesnt mean anything (its technically just cloth), then the issue becomes even more muddied. The weird thing is that a lot of the same people arguing that a physical symbol like the flag should garner no respect are also the ones who claim that certain words (which by their nature have no physical form and are just made up) have immense power, so much so that saying them can cause massive backlash or inspire great deeds.
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_RETS_ posted...

I have no problem with them kneeling. Trump shouldn't voice an opinion on it either way. But if the NFL, as a business, decides they don't want them kneeling, that is a business operating for its own self interest and whether that decision makes or loses them money should determine how they move forward.

People shouldn't have a problem with them kneeling because it "disrespects the anthem/troops/flag/country", because that is stupid and taking issue with a peaceful protest. However, people can be rightfully bothered by the protest being hinged on a narrative that is rooted in media sensationalism rather than facts.

Facts, are you suggesting that there is no racism in the US justice system ?
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DevsBro posted...

I don't really understand why they kneel over other things they could do but in any case it's clear the intent is to refuse the proper respectful behavior.

Which, I can understand wanting to protest but the flag represents a whole lot of stuff. Nobody can arrest you for it (which is guaranteed by the right to protest) but when you're making such a bold statement as "everything the flag represents, I refuse to honor" there's naturally gonna be some pushback.

Besides the time black people took a knee. When has taking a need ever been disrespectful ?
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Caution999 posted...

Saying "only racists were upset that they were kneeling"

I'm not saying this at all. Read OP and topic title please.

It brought out some racists. Everyone who is upset isn't a racist.
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cjsdowg posted...

DevsBro posted...

I don't really understand why they kneel over other things they could do but in any case it's clear the intent is to refuse the proper respectful behavior.

Which, I can understand wanting to protest but the flag represents a whole lot of stuff. Nobody can arrest you for it (which is guaranteed by the right to protest) but when you're making such a bold statement as "everything the flag represents, I refuse to honor" there's naturally gonna be some pushback.

Besides the time black people took a knee. When has taking a need ever been disrespectful ?

Good question. How it's related to my post, I don't know, but it's a good question anyway.
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cjsdowg posted...

_RETS_ posted...

I have no problem with them kneeling. Trump shouldn't voice an opinion on it either way. But if the NFL, as a business, decides they don't want them kneeling, that is a business operating for its own self interest and whether that decision makes or loses them money should determine how they move forward.

People shouldn't have a problem with them kneeling because it "disrespects the anthem/troops/flag/country", because that is stupid and taking issue with a peaceful protest. However, people can be rightfully bothered by the protest being hinged on a narrative that is rooted in media sensationalism rather than facts.

Facts, are you suggesting that there is no racism in the US justice system ?

No, I am suggesting that the police brutality/lethality issue against minorities is overblown by the media especially when black men are more likely to perpetrate violent crime, perpetuate domestic abuse, more likely to kill an officer than the other way around, studies show no racial bias in police shootings, etc then you have to wonder if the narrative as pushed by the media is actually true.

It is further called into question when movements like to prop up cases like Michael Brown as an example of what they are protesting against.

And AFAIK, Trump's outreach to the NFL players for cases to consider for pardon has got unanswered. So do they actually want things to improve, or are they wanting to perpetuate victimhood without proposing or assisting in any real solutions?

CableZL posted...

The irony is hilarious lmaoooo
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DarkProto05 posted...

Caution999 posted...

Saying "only racists were upset that they were kneeling"

I'm not saying this at all. Read OP and topic title please.

It brought out some racists. Everyone who is upset isn't a racist.

That's cool.

I think the interpretation of what happened is different for everyone. Like, we all gotta do a better job and see it both ways.

There's no doubt in the player's hearts they were standing up for brutality. And in the same breath, I have no doubt others that were upset that they chose to use the anthem for their cause because the flag means A LOT of things to a lot of people.

The whole situation is rather unfortunate.
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Caution999 posted...

DarkProto05 posted...

Caution999 posted...

Saying "only racists were upset that they were kneeling"

I'm not saying this at all. Read OP and topic title please.

It brought out some racists. Everyone who is upset isn't a racist.

That's cool.

I think the interpretation of what happened is different for everyone. Like, we all gotta do a better job and see it both ways.

There's no doubt in the player's hearts they were standing up for brutality. And in the same breath, I have no doubt others that were upset that they chose to use the anthem for their cause because the flag means A LOT of things to a lot of people.

The whole situation is rather unfortunate.

Very true.

While I think it's a little ridiculous to be upset over the kneeling I'm willing to listen to the concerns of the other side (the ones who aren't violent or have racist intent anyway). Compassion goes a long way but that's a long conversation for a different day.

As for this topic's conversation. While most anti-kneelers aren't racist, PLENTY are. Few famous people have responded racially to the kneeling like Dan Gilbert's friends and Papa John. The majority are nobodies who do it anonymously on the web or even in real life. These are the folks I look down on and make fun of them.
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That's how I found out that my wife's extended family is a bunch of racists.
When I stated that I had no problem with kneeling, they basically ran me out of the place calling me "unpatriotic", and other things that I refuse to say. I am a combat veteran, btw. Not one of them is a combat veteran, or has ever served in any way, not even National Guard.

The reason that I'm not offended by the kneeling is that "wrong is wrong". What these people are facing is wrong. Our flag stands for freedom and the pursuit of happiness for all people, regardless of race, religion, or anything else that makes each individual. Soldiers kneel at the graves of their fallen brothers, as a sign of respect. These NFL players do not feel that their concerns are being addressed by society, and they are correct. They feel that this is the only way to make people understand the importance of their cause, and the need for reform.

As a white American, a combat veteran, a patriot, and a decent human being, if I were on the field with them, I would have joined them. Not in any way to disrespect my country or flag, but because of the brave men and women that I served with that didn't come home, died for freedom, equality, and justice for all people.
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Alphamon posted...

nationalism is a hell of a drug

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DarthGravid posted...

That's how I found out that my wife's extended family is a bunch of racists.
When I stated that I had no problem with kneeling, they basically ran me out of the place calling me "unpatriotic", and other things that I refuse to say. I am a combat veteran, btw. Not one of them is a combat veteran, or has ever served in any way, not even National Guard.

The reason that I'm not offended by the kneeling is that "wrong is wrong". What these people are facing is wrong. Our flag stands for freedom and the pursuit of happiness for all people, regardless of race, religion, or anything else that makes each individual. Soldiers kneel at the graves of their fallen brothers, as a sign of respect. These NFL players do not feel that their concerns are being addressed by society, and they are correct. They feel that this is the only way to make people understand the importance of their cause, and the need for reform.

As a white American, a combat veteran, a patriot, and a decent human being, if I were on the field with them, I would have joined them. Not in any way to disrespect my country or flag, but because of the brave men and women that I served with that didn't come home, died for freedom, equality, and justice for all people.

I agree with you for the most part, but there are veterans who do take issue with it and feel disrespected. Your perspective as a veteran doesn't vindicate or condemn the players' actions any more or less than theirs does.

DevsBro posted...

Good question. How it's related to my post, I don't know, but it's a good question anyway.

If you call what they do disrespect . You should at least be able to point to another time when this action was called respectful.
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DarthGravid posted...

That's how I found out that my wife's extended family is a bunch of racists.
When I stated that I had no problem with kneeling, they basically ran me out of the place calling me "unpatriotic", and other things that I refuse to say. I am a combat veteran, btw. Not one of them is a combat veteran, or has ever served in any way, not even National Guard.

The reason that I'm not offended by the kneeling is that "wrong is wrong". What these people are facing is wrong. Our flag stands for freedom and the pursuit of happiness for all people, regardless of race, religion, or anything else that makes each individual. Soldiers kneel at the graves of their fallen brothers, as a sign of respect. These NFL players do not feel that their concerns are being addressed by society, and they are correct. They feel that this is the only way to make people understand the importance of their cause, and the need for reform.

As a white American, a combat veteran, a patriot, and a decent human being, if I were on the field with them, I would have joined them. Not in any way to disrespect my country or flag, but because of the brave men and women that I served with that didn't come home, died for freedom, equality, and justice for all people.

You have an admirable take on the situation. Sorry you had to go through that with your wife's family. And thanks for serving.

I come from a family of Marines. Go marines!
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I always thought that kneeling was a greater form of respect, as it shows complete submission. Before this whole bullshit new age race game, where everything is about race, I woulda felt one upped if I saw a bunch of people kneeling before the national anthem. I woulda thought "damn, maybe I should I kneel too. Wish I woulda thought of that!".
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Caution999 posted...

DarkProto05 posted...

Caution999 posted...

Saying "only racists were upset that they were kneeling"

I'm not saying this at all. Read OP and topic title please.

It brought out some racists. Everyone who is upset isn't a racist.

That's cool.

I think the interpretation of what happened is different for everyone. Like, we all gotta do a better job and see it both ways.

There's no doubt in the player's hearts they were standing up for brutality. And in the same breath, I have no doubt others that were upset that they chose to use the anthem for their cause because the flag means A LOT of things to a lot of people.

The whole situation is rather unfortunate.

Tell me , why are the same people who are complaining about the Players (For the most part). Ok with Trump attacking POWs, making jokes about Retreat, firing active members of the Armed forces online, joking about Vietnam, dodging the war while saying he always wanted a purple heart? If these people cared about the troops this shit should upset them more.
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I never got why people thought that it was disrespectful to veterans to kneel during the anthem. It's not even about them to begin with. The flag represents the entire country and if there are people who don't believe we are united like we should be the kneeling shouldn't offend anyone.
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Caution999 posted...

DarkProto05 posted...

Caution999 posted...

Saying "only racists were upset that they were kneeling"

I'm not saying this at all. Read OP and topic title please.

It brought out some racists. Everyone who is upset isn't a racist.

That's cool.

I think the interpretation of what happened is different for everyone. Like, we all gotta do a better job and see it both ways.

There's no doubt in the player's hearts they were standing up for brutality. And in the same breath, I have no doubt others that were upset that they chose to use the anthem for their cause because the flag means A LOT of things to a lot of people.

The whole situation is rather unfortunate.

Wait wait wait... Did you forget to switch off you Caution alt to post this? I've never seen such a rational post from you. It's blowing my mind. It must have been an accident.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneeling

Kneeling is a basic human position where one or both knees touch the ground. It can used:

- as a resting position
- as an expression of reverence and submission
- during childbirth
- during sexual intercourse
- in conjunction with crawling in young children.

I assume black NFL players are not having sex, giving birth, crawling young children during the national anthem.

This leaves out resting or reverence and submission.

If they needed to rest before the game even started, they wouldn't be in the NFL.

So, by kneeling, they're actually showing more respect for the country than those who stand.
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known2FAIL posted...

Caution999 posted...

DarkProto05 posted...

Caution999 posted...

Saying "only racists were upset that they were kneeling"

I'm not saying this at all. Read OP and topic title please.

It brought out some racists. Everyone who is upset isn't a racist.

That's cool.

I think the interpretation of what happened is different for everyone. Like, we all gotta do a better job and see it both ways.

There's no doubt in the player's hearts they were standing up for brutality. And in the same breath, I have no doubt others that were upset that they chose to use the anthem for their cause because the flag means A LOT of things to a lot of people.

The whole situation is rather unfortunate.

Wait wait wait... Did you forget to switch off your Caution alt to post this? I've never seen such a rational post from you. It's blowing my mind. It must have been an accident.

I think a lot of emotion on both sides really blinded people from this reality, even myself at times.

I'm trying this new perspective where I first assume people have good hearts first. :)
Being familiar with the NFL - I know, a lot of the players are very passionate about social issues.
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_RETS_ posted...

DarthGravid posted...

That's how I found out that my wife's extended family is a bunch of racists.
When I stated that I had no problem with kneeling, they basically ran me out of the place calling me "unpatriotic", and other things that I refuse to say. I am a combat veteran, btw. Not one of them is a combat veteran, or has ever served in any way, not even National Guard.

The reason that I'm not offended by the kneeling is that "wrong is wrong". What these people are facing is wrong. Our flag stands for freedom and the pursuit of happiness for all people, regardless of race, religion, or anything else that makes each individual. Soldiers kneel at the graves of their fallen brothers, as a sign of respect. These NFL players do not feel that their concerns are being addressed by society, and they are correct. They feel that this is the only way to make people understand the importance of their cause, and the need for reform.

As a white American, a combat veteran, a patriot, and a decent human being, if I were on the field with them, I would have joined them. Not in any way to disrespect my country or flag, but because of the brave men and women that I served with that didn't come home, died for freedom, equality, and justice for all people.

I agree with you for the most part, but there are veterans who do take issue with it and feel disrespected. Your perspective as a veteran doesn't vindicate or condemn the players' actions any more or less than theirs does.

That freedom to disagree is what we fought for. I respect those opinions, and to a degree, understand them. My opinion is my own, and I stand by it.

@DarkProto05 I was Army. I fought along side Marines, and I have all the respect in the world for you guys. I would fight next to a Marine any day.
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DarthGravid posted...

_RETS_ posted...

DarthGravid posted...

That's how I found out that my wife's extended family is a bunch of racists.
When I stated that I had no problem with kneeling, they basically ran me out of the place calling me "unpatriotic", and other things that I refuse to say. I am a combat veteran, btw. Not one of them is a combat veteran, or has ever served in any way, not even National Guard.

The reason that I'm not offended by the kneeling is that "wrong is wrong". What these people are facing is wrong. Our flag stands for freedom and the pursuit of happiness for all people, regardless of race, religion, or anything else that makes each individual. Soldiers kneel at the graves of their fallen brothers, as a sign of respect. These NFL players do not feel that their concerns are being addressed by society, and they are correct. They feel that this is the only way to make people understand the importance of their cause, and the need for reform.

As a white American, a combat veteran, a patriot, and a decent human being, if I were on the field with them, I would have joined them. Not in any way to disrespect my country or flag, but because of the brave men and women that I served with that didn't come home, died for freedom, equality, and justice for all people.

I agree with you for the most part, but there are veterans who do take issue with it and feel disrespected. Your perspective as a veteran doesn't vindicate or condemn the players' actions any more or less than theirs does.

That freedom to disagree is what we fought for. I respect those opinions, and to a degree, understand them. My opinion is my own, and I stand by it.

@DarkProto05 I was Army. I fought along side Marines, and I have all the respect in the world for you guys. I would fight next to a Marine any day.

You should stand by it and there is nothing more American than being able to respectfully and reasonably disagree with each other.

_RETS_ posted...

respectfully and reasonably disagree with each other.

That's what people lack. Even myself, at times. We are so hung up on being right in our own sight, that we will often argue something that we know is wrong, but we are just too damn stubborn to admit it.

It is my wish to be humble AND have the courage to admit when I'm wrong, and be able to accept differing opinions, and not go to war over disagreement.
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Dyinglegacy posted...

_RETS_ posted...

respectfully and reasonably disagree with each other.

That's what people lack. Even myself, at times. We are so hung up on being right in our own sight, that we will often argue something that we know is wrong, but we are just too damn stubborn to admit it.

It is my wish to be humble AND have the courage to admit when I'm wrong, and be able to accept differing opinions, and not go to war over disagreement.

I honestly thought that this topic would bring out the worst of CE. I've never been so happy to be so wrong. Maybe there is hope for us yet....
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cjsdowg posted...

DevsBro posted...

Good question. How it's related to my post, I don't know, but it's a good question anyway.

If you call what they do disrespect . You should at least be able to point to another time when this action was called respectful.

But what was it I said they were doing? I can come up with lots of times refusing to show the proper respectful behavior has been considered disrespectful. Like refusing to be quiet during a funeral service or refusing to move when somebody needs to get by.
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@DarthGravid posted...

_RETS_ posted...

DarthGravid posted...

That's how I found out that my wife's extended family is a bunch of racists.
When I stated that I had no problem with kneeling, they basically ran me out of the place calling me "unpatriotic", and other things that I refuse to say. I am a combat veteran, btw. Not one of them is a combat veteran, or has ever served in any way, not even National Guard.

The reason that I'm not offended by the kneeling is that "wrong is wrong". What these people are facing is wrong. Our flag stands for freedom and the pursuit of happiness for all people, regardless of race, religion, or anything else that makes each individual. Soldiers kneel at the graves of their fallen brothers, as a sign of respect. These NFL players do not feel that their concerns are being addressed by society, and they are correct. They feel that this is the only way to make people understand the importance of their cause, and the need for reform.

As a white American, a combat veteran, a patriot, and a decent human being, if I were on the field with them, I would have joined them. Not in any way to disrespect my country or flag, but because of the brave men and women that I served with that didn't come home, died for freedom, equality, and justice for all people.

I agree with you for the most part, but there are veterans who do take issue with it and feel disrespected. Your perspective as a veteran doesn't vindicate or condemn the players' actions any more or less than theirs does.

That freedom to disagree is what we fought for. I respect those opinions, and to a degree, understand them. My opinion is my own, and I stand by it.

@DarkProto05 I was Army. I fought along side Marines, and I have all the respect in the world for you guys. I would fight next to a Marine any day.

Oh no I was never a marine. Please don't give me such respect lol. My bad for the misunderstanding.

I have a few family members who served in the marines and have a ton of admiration for them, all marines, and all service people. I'd do anything to support them. I know they would fight besides an army soldier like yourself any day.
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KStateKing17 posted...

I never got why people thought that it was disrespectful to veterans to kneel during the anthem. It's not even about them to begin with. The flag represents the entire country and if there are people who don't believe we are united like we should be the kneeling shouldn't offend anyone.

The answer is they don't actually give a shit about veterans, they just want a strawman to hide their racism behind.
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DevsBro posted...

But what was it I said they were doing? I can come up with lots of times refusing to show the proper respectful behavior has been considered disrespectful. Like refusing to be quiet during a funeral service or refusing to move when somebody needs to get by.

Are when a black guy does something. Like I said before NO other time as taking a knee been disrespectful, moreover all out of the blue the flag and song became ONLY about the troops. Right when black person did something. Like always people are pissed anytime black people protest.
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People who kneel are just tools.

And people who don't kneel are also tools.

A person just can't win.
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