Board 8 > Warcraft's Warbringers:Jaina video is fantastic (for a Warcraft fan, at least)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Who are you and what have you done with Nanis?
No but really, when I feel like something deserves a praise, I can stop being a Nanis and post a positive praise for once

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo7XPvwRgG8" data-time="
More than a week passed and I can't stop humming this. The song is stuck in my head for a damn week and I keep on returning and hearing it over and over

A friend gave me this link when it first came out 8 days ago. Said "cool, a Blizzard video" and I came in expecting a full cinematic (like the trailers) and for the first minute I saw this and was disappointed it was just some picture art. Hell, I almost closed it.
But then 1:19 happened, "Because...she left his side" with Jaina voice breaking down and you can feel the "sadness" in his
Followed by the folks asking "why this? why this?" and it just activated something emotionally inside me for some reason

I don't follow WoW lore, but I check stuff sometimes, and I read about the bombing of Theramore and Jaina changing her opinion on the Orc, and it makes it feel like her father dying for nothing
And the folk song just rubs it in, mentioning how she was the pride of the nation, how her father died because he went to rescue her, and how she betrayed him as his family
This is all very tramutic and the song itself is full of emotions and it's great

The art itself is also very good and synchronize perfectly with the song
Jaina's "beware...of me" was badass
Her words about "I'm listening now..father" are a direct reference to the last words she said to him "Father, why didn't you listen.."

This video is just...perfectly well done.
From Laura Bailay voice, to the art, and the traumatic meaning of the lyrics, everything is just perfect
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I would also guess there is some nostalgia involved, I dunno as I almost never affected by nostalgia
But remembering the battle of Theramore, when I played it 15 years ago when it just came out...and never played it since (despite replaying TFT like 3 times, but I skip Rexxar campaign)
And yet...I still remember those missions well, I still remember her father's death

This video made me want to replay WC3 and TFT, and hell it even made me feel like checking out WoW
Is it worth it just for the lore? I feel like I missed a ton and some stuff of it is intersting
Should I start playing it or is it too late? Wait for the Vanilla version?
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I watched that video when it first went up. It was decent, and I appreciated it for what it is, but it didn't become an earworm for me.
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We'll have two more coming soon, one for Sylvanas and another for Azshara. If you don't know your WoW lore, you might not know Azshara.
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I don't know *much* about Azshara. I know she was the high elf queen whose actions created the maelstrom and turned all her followers into naga, and I remember encountering her during Burning Crusade in Serpentshrine Cavern.
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Next one is out. On my phone so linking it would be a pain but it shouldn't be hard to find.
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Worst game ever aside from Warcraft III and Hearthstone. Luckily I've never spent my own money on any of these games.

Also, the art in this vid is just great.
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I've listened to the video so many times now. It reminds me of when Pippin (Billy Boyd) sings to Denethor in Return of the King.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ltiVOUmo9o" data-time="

Really great stuff. I decided to do the intro to Kul Tiras in WoW last night - which I'm assuming takes place after the video when Jaina returns. The Warbringers song is clearly referenced ("Daughter of the sea") and a verse is sung in the game at one point.
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Jaina gets closer to becoming a raid boss every expansion. At least that's what I always think.

Wedge Antilles posted...

Next one is out. On my phone so linking it would be a pain but it shouldn't be hard to find.

Saw it, was nice
I always like it when they reference WC3
But I dunno, Jaina video has this unexplainable emotional impact that I can't quite describe, it will be impossible to match it imo (for me at least)

Peridiam posted...

I've listened to the video so many times now. It reminds me of when Pippin (Billy Boyd) sings to Denethor in Return of the King.

To me it reminds of "Ballad of the Forresters" which is the only good thing that came out frok the god awful Telltale's Game of Thrones(well, maybe the character of Asher was good too)
That too was a song retelling a tragic event, song by a woman with beatiful voice as well
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So regarding playing World of Warcraft just for the lore...

1.is the lore even good? personally I can't stand the "slain by a group of adventures" for important characters, it's super dumb
2.Is it worth playing nowadays?
3.How long would it take if I only want to play the "main story" once? Don't care about farming stuff or 100% completion or multiple characters etc
Keep in mind I work a full time job and super tired in weekdays so I can only play in weekend and I prefer to get it over with because I have a gignatic backlog

I know this game is not really for me, but since this is the correct way of experiencing the lore.. oh well
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Nanis23 posted...

So regarding playing World of Warcraft just for the lore...

1.is the lore even good? personally I can't stand the "slain by a group of adventurers" for important characters, it's super dumb
2.Is it worth playing nowadays?
3.How long would it take if I only want to play the "main story" once? Don't care about farming stuff or 100% completion or multiple characters etc
Keep in mind I work a full time job and super tired in weekdays so I can only play in weekend and I prefer to get it over with because I have a gignatic backlog

I know this game is not really for me, but since this is the correct way of experiencing the lore.. oh well

From one casual to another:

1. The lore is pretty good, but the storytelling is pretty weak. Many big bads are killed by NPC's "with the assistance of adventures". The final boss of the latest expansion is basically one-upped by a prominent NPC, though we do everything to subdue the villain.

2. It's probably at its best right now. They introduced level-scaling so any zone you're in can be fully completed instead of out-leveling everything at a rapid pace and constantly being on the move.

3. WoW's story structure is all over the place. I'm not even sure how to describe it other than 'disjointed'. Each expansion adds more story, but the following expansion renders the previous one moot. You'd do best to watch a YouTube video outlining the story up to the latest expansion and then going from there.

Each zone generally has a self-contained story that you see through from start to finish. Sometimes they carry to the next zone.

To break it all down:
Level 1-60: [Expansion 3 story]
Level 60-80: [Expansion 1 & 2 story]
Level 80-90: [Expansion 3 & 4 story]
Level 90-100: [Expansion 5 story]
Level 100-110: [Expansion 6 story]
Level 110-120: [Expansion 7 story]

Kinda confusing. The problem is that you won't see the end of any of the expansions story due to leveling. For example, you'll get to level 90 and move on to expansion 5 (which starts at 90) without ever finishing expansion 4. To finish expansion 4's story you'd need to do a raid which nobody is going to do at that level (I've gone back and completed old raids for the story to see what happened, but only at max-level when the content is ezpz).

So really, you're going to have a story all over the place until you hit level 110, whereupon you'll catch up with the rest of the pack and begin to play the modern story as it's currently unfolding today. The good news is that if you buy the latest expansion (#7) you get a free level 110 character to jump right into the action. The downside is that you'll have no idea how to play your class out of the gate and if you're a total newbie, it might be really confusing from all angles.

I'm not sure how long it'll take to get through the latest story -- it releases in 2 weeks (Aug 14). I think it's around 15 hours to go from 110-120?

This is probably too much information but whatever, can't hurt to know what you're getting into.
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Level scaling sounds awful. You mean I can't blow through Outland content without paying attention anymore?

Also, Laura Bailey just had a baby so maybe that emotion carried into the video.
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Thanks for the detailed answer. It does sound a bit confusing though
I am also afraid of catching up to a 15? years of expansions, it sounds overwhelming

I hope my hype will die soon before I devote myself to hunders of hours
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Level scaling sounds awful. You mean I can't blow through Outland content without paying attention anymore?

Also, Laura Bailey just had a baby so maybe that emotion carried into the video.

This was nerfed recently. Level scaling was changed quite a bit between 40-100 now. Personally, I never found it very hard to do if you have heirlooms. Leveling should still be an experience for new players to get them interested I think.
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Of course, they're also right in the middle of the worst progression bug they've ever experienced in the history of their game (not that you'd know it from how they're trying to cover it up, downplay it, and declare it fixed even though it isn't.)

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766797220?page=1
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I know this game is not really for me, but since this is the correct way of experiencing the lore.. oh well

To experience the lore from the "whole" game, including every expansion since launch? All mainline quests, all dungeons, all raids? That would take a hell of a long time. Probably over 1,000 hours if I had to guess. This is a game that has been under constant and continuous development for nearly 15 years! You won't be able to "get this over with quickly" on weekends.

That said, there IS a potential solution. I HIGHLY recommend this Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ__nRnO2mE&list=PLV3Yvqnl3FYcsI4px2GaIxUQ8io4kuZ2s

Once you get over the weird accent and fast talking, this guy does a pretty good job of explaining Warcraft lore, mainly utilizing in-game video, cut-scenes, and official art. It's how I caught myself up on the events of expansions that I missed. It's not quite the same as "playing through" everything, but it's about as close as you're going to get.
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This stat squish was too extreme. Health pools are TBC era now. Yes it was out of control but this made things broken in older content.
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1.is the lore even good? personally I can't stand the "slain by a group of adventures" for important characters, it's super dumb

To expand on this a little, I think they've gotten a lot better at this... at least as much as they can, given that the game itself is still structured such that end-game content is tackled in... literal groups of adventurers.

But typically there are main storyline characters that accompany you on the raid, and who get a lot of the lore credit for the ultimate accomplishment. You basically play the role of a hero who is physically present for every single important thing that happens anywhere, but is happy to sit in the background, take no credit, and let the NPCs have all the glory. So it ends up less as "This evil villain was slain by adventurers" and more like "This evil villain was slain by Thrall... and some adventurers." More and more, your allies actually will be present in the fights with you, either giving you combat advantages or at least shouting encouragement... so it's not as if that's not really true, either.

Also you don't really kill that many "important" characters.

And about 50% of people who "die" in this universe inevitably find some way to come back eventually anyhow.
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Stat squish? They lowered all the numbers? Interesting.
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Last time I played, I loremastered eastern kingdoms, BC, wrath, and cata. Was on pandas but got stuck on farming. It's possible to experience most of it!... at least on one side
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azuarc posted...

Stat squish? They lowered all the numbers? Interesting.

They did it after the last expansion too. Although this one was more extreme, so there's a possibility they don't intend to do it again for a decent amount of time.
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SmartMuffin posted...

azuarc posted...

Stat squish? They lowered all the numbers? Interesting.

They did it after the last expansion too. Although this one was more extreme, so there's a possibility they don't intend to do it again for a decent amount of time.

Last time was dumbest decision ever.
This time it's definitely going to be worse.
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I feel like it's not a bad idea in theory... but in practice it... doesn't actually do what they say it does.

They say "everything was reduced proportionally" but that's so clearly and obviously untrue. I've been transmog farming in raids and bosses that I used to kill in one hit now take like 4 or 5 to go down.
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Maybe they shouldn't have let stats inflate so ridiculously fast in the first place. Is there any legit reason why they couldn't have reigned that in better from the beginning?
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I've spent a ton of time on WoW over the years and had a lot of fun doing so. My focus was mostly on doing all quests/achievement hunting rather than doing high end content, so I've seen almost all of the content before Legion (which I only played for about a month before deciding that I could no longer afford the timesink). I think the lore is pretty good, though it certainly varies in quality pretty widely.

Wish I could justify playing the new expansion, but I'm really bad at moderating my time in games like WoW.
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Peridiam posted...

I've listened to the video so many times now. It reminds me of when Pippin (Billy Boyd) sings to Denethor in Return of the King.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ltiVOUmo9o" data-time="

Really great stuff. I decided to do the intro to Kul Tiras in WoW last night - which I'm assuming takes place after the video when Jaina returns. The Warbringers song is clearly referenced ("Daughter of the sea") and a verse is sung in the game at one point.

I love that Pippen song. It's got a sort of haunting beauty to it.
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redrocket posted...

Maybe they shouldn't have let stats inflate so ridiculously fast in the first place. Is there any legit reason why they couldn't have reigned that in better from the beginning?

Not really. The acceleration even this expansion was mind-boggling. Argus gear trumped the gear from Broken Isles by insane numbers. Upgrades used to be a lot less impactful.
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redrocket posted...

Maybe they shouldn't have let stats inflate so ridiculously fast in the first place. Is there any legit reason why they couldn't have reigned that in better from the beginning?

The curve from Classic to TBC then to WotLK was fine.

But people were using TBC Epics for all of WotLK's early parts, and beating Naxx in T6 gear.

Blizzard decided this shouldn't happen, and went for a massive increase in power between WotLK and Cata. A similar occurrence happened with Cata to MoP. And then came the first squish, which was stupid then.

But because need massive power jumps and they won't just drop x86 and go full Disgaea numbers, they keep having to do it.
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No, redrocket is right - they absolutely could (and should) have been more thoughtful about that.

Although I think the dramatic acceleration was intentional. They wanted to make it easy for new players, or players who took long breaks, to catch up to "current" content quickly and easily. And "current" didn't just mean "current expansion" but rather "current patch."

I'm guessing that part of it will remain intact for BFA.
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How does stat inflation have anything to do with catching new players up to current content? You do that by giving them access to current gear. The actual stats are irrelevant.
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Because they also want people who play constantly to feel a sense of progression as well.

Basically, people who play all the time will get pissed if new content doesn't offer them a significant upgrade on what the old content did.

And at the same time, people who don't play as often will feel disillusioned and quit if it seems like they can't possibly catch up to frequent players.

So the compromise solution is that every new update includes new gear, that's a lot better than the old gear, and that (at lower tiers of the new gear) is easily and quickly obtainable for all players. That's why right now, in legion, you can solo quest and obtain gear that's a higher ilvl than mythic emerald nightmare (and also why nobody ever runs old raids anymore, but I guess they feel like that's an acceptable trade-off)

The stat squish is mainly intended to simply reduce the numbers, but in a practical sense, what it actually does is lower the power differential between different tiers of old gear. So, once upon a time, Cata gear was a lot better than Wrath gear, but the more you "squish" the closer they get to each other. And that's why everything feels harder, because it's harder to "out-gear" things. Even at 110 old content is harder, because Legion gear was also squished, in anticipation of BFA.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Basically, people who play all the time will get pissed if new content doesn't offer them a significant upgrade on what the old content did.

I mean I get that but don't you think they've gone overboard there?
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Not really. It's a tough compromise to make, this is probably the best they can do. If anything I tend to side with the frequent players... it's almost laughable how trivially easy it is to "catch up" the second a new update hits. Basically, everything hardcore players do gets made completely and totally obsolete every six months or so.

It kinda kills the desire or incentive to bother with Mythic raiding at all, unless you're in an elite raid guild vying for status, or are the obsessive sort of transmog hunter. Like, why should I bang my head against the wall trying to clear Mythic EN when I know that next month, I'll be able to get better gear from Normal Nighthold?
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SmartMuffin posted...

No, redrocket is right - they absolutely could (and should) have been more thoughtful about that.

That's true. And until Cataclysm, the progression was doing just fine.

But Blizzard just threw a wrench in the machine because some of the new gear wasn't getting used in favor of L70 Epics.
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This is really well done and all, but I have a hard time enjoying it. I find the narrative they are pushing with Jaina and Sylvanas to be.... really dumb. They are just having them go crazier and crazier and do dumb shit. It ends in one of two ways - 1) they realize they've been acting fucking crazy and atone for their shit, admitting that all of their character development lately was stupid as hell, or 2) we kill them.

Which sucks because they are two of my favourite characters.

This is damn good though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW_h0qf9vpA" data-time="
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thats a whole lot of character for someone who started as a random NPC meme
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Well according to Kotaku there is some outrage about the Sylvanas video

Again, I don't pretend to know Warcraft lore past TFT, but to me it doesn't sound too much out of character for her
Now people might say "it isn't the horde way" but well...they do follow a leader, and since she is all about vengeance and hatred and all that shit, killing innocents is in her personality
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Sylvanas IS evil, always has been. People should stop crying.
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v_charon posted...

Sylvanas IS evil, always has been. People should stop crying.

Always?
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redrocket posted...

v_charon posted...

Sylvanas IS evil, always has been. People should stop crying.

Always?

I guess ever since she was Arthas'ed
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Yeah, Sylvanas has always been evil in WoW, but now that she's the Warchief, front and center, she can't get the free pass that she used to.
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Anyone who expects Sylvanas to be anything but Lich Queen was wrong.

She never had anything "good" in her from the moment she was raised from the dead.
Same thing with with her entire race. The Forsaken are just as bad as the rest of the scourge.
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Now people might say "it isn't the horde way" but well...they do follow a leader, and since she is all about vengeance and hatred and all that shit, killing innocents is in her personality

The dumb part of this is the whole "why did Vol'Jin give her leadership" question that remains completely and totally unanswered. THAT'S the plot hole. We know why Thrall trusted Garrosh, and why that ended up being a huge mistake, and Vol'Jin personally watched that whole thing and had to deal with it first-hand more than anyone else.
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Maybe we find the answer in BfA, but I'm doubting it. Blizz writers are pretty garbo overall.
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redrocket posted...

v_charon posted...

Sylvanas IS evil, always has been. People should stop crying.

Always?

Ever since she became leader of the Forsaken, yes. Her discord sowed the seeds that led to Wrathgate. She ignored Garrosh's orders to stop using the plague (he might have been evil too, but for much different reasons). This new expansion is nothing new for her. Sylvanas has never been in it for anyone but herself and her own endless vengeance upon people that did nothing to her. She has never had anyone's interest in mind other than the Forsaken's; and even that is questionable now since she willingly slaughters her own people that want to see their living families. The Forsaken truly are no better than the Scourge. If you're a Horde player, I'd be upset with the writing that has allowed characters like Thrall and Vol'jin to be so blind and idiotic as to put up with her.
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