Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 192: Manafort and a Storm

(+) Yeah! (+)

and just because this clip never fails to make me happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdCYMvaUcrA" data-time="
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Jeb! would've gotten god stomped by Hillary stop playin
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Jeb! is noteworthy for being the only presidential candidate in recent history who really, truly, obviously did not want to be president.
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Trump appealed to the midwest. Jeb could have taken Florida but would not have nearly the same appeal in all those Midwestern states Trump carried.
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I think many of us expected Jeb to be one of the favorites of 2016, but in hindsight he never had a chance and we didn't need Donald targeting him to figure that out. He probably would have done a lot better if Donald wasn't attacking his energy and his brother in the middle of debates, sure, but Republican primary voters just weren't going to go to somebody as mild-mannered as him in 2016 and Dubya's family name was much worse in 2016 than it is today. My bet now would have been Ted Cruz or maybe Chris Christie to fill that void Donald filled.

2016 was pretty extraordinary though for randomness, so who knows. Who would have predicted Trump/Cruz/Kasich would have been the final three of their primary?
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Trump appealed to the midwest

This will never stop being preposterous to me that a con man New York billionaire was the chosen representative of blue collar Midwest workers, primaries and general
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I actually think Hillary would have beaten most of the other Rs as the debate would have centered a lot more around policy (which would have benefited her quite a bit).
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You guys really underestimate the amount her coal comments damaged her in the Midwest. In states like PA Oh MI IN GA WI.

Then you have the fact that the black vote was never going to come out as strong for her as it did for Obama simply because she was not black. Which hurt her in PA and NC specifically among some other places.

Kasich, Rubio, Bush, and maybe Carson would have all beat her.

Cruz woulda got absolutely stomped by her.
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don't really see jeb! beating anyone after the "please clap" fiasco.
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Corrik posted...

You guys really underestimate the amount her coal comments damaged her in the Midwest. In states like PA Oh MI IN GA WI.

I dont think it was the coal comments so much as she didnt campaign in states like Michigan and Wisconsin, which was REALLY fucking stupid considering she lost those states to Bernie and clearly wasnt strong there.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Corrik posted...

You guys really underestimate the amount her coal comments damaged her in the Midwest. In states like PA Oh MI IN GA WI.

I dont think it was the coal comments so much as she didnt campaign in states like Michigan and Wisconsin, which was REALLY fucking stupid considering she lost those states to Bernie and clearly wasnt strong there.

Wanna guess why she wasn't strong there...
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Trump supporters should realize that he didnt win because of a groundswell of support from the real people, but because he was up against one of the worst ran, treated as a coronation-ass Presidential campaigns in our lifetime.
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Corrik posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Corrik posted...

You guys really underestimate the amount her coal comments damaged her in the Midwest. In states like PA Oh MI IN GA WI.

I dont think it was the coal comments so much as she didnt campaign in states like Michigan and Wisconsin, which was REALLY fucking stupid considering she lost those states to Bernie and clearly wasnt strong there.

Wanna guess why she wasn't strong there...

Michigan hasnt had an active coal mine in 60 years.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Corrik posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Corrik posted...

You guys really underestimate the amount her coal comments damaged her in the Midwest. In states like PA Oh MI IN GA WI.

I dont think it was the coal comments so much as she didnt campaign in states like Michigan and Wisconsin, which was REALLY fucking stupid considering she lost those states to Bernie and clearly wasnt strong there.

Wanna guess why she wasn't strong there...

Michigan hasnt had an active coal mine in 60 years.

They get steel from from steel plants which make steel with coke which is made with coal.

There was large ranging ramifications beyond that sillies who thought she meant just coal miners.

Granted cars are adding more and more aluminum, but it still had an effect with the car industry.
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Jakyl25 posted...

CaptainOfCrush posted...

Trump appealed to the midwest

This will never stop being preposterous to me that a con man New York billionaire was the chosen representative of blue collar Midwest workers, primaries and general

There ya go.
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I feel like the Clinton campaign couldn't quite imagine themselves losing. They could only see winning, and winning in a landslide. So they invested in the places that they needed to win in a landslide.
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red sox 777 posted...

I feel like the Clinton campaign couldn't quite imagine themselves losing. They could only see winning, and winning in a landslide. So they invested in the places that they needed to win in a landslide.

She was as cocky and smug in how she ran her campaign as she came off in the debates. She deserved her loss for assuming she was guarranteed it.
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Coal isn't as big a deal in Ohio, either. Trump won by appealing to the neglected feel of small Town America, more than Hillary hurt herself. People voting against Hillary were going to do so anyway. Trump inspired people to go out and vote who normally feel neglected by both parties.
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I don't care if she deserved to lose or why that would be the case.

Americans did not deserve to endure a Trump victory.

The degredation of political discourse has accelerated at an absurd rate.
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Trump asked for people to vote for him. He didn't act like they had to vote for him because of demographics or even partisan history. He asked for everyone's vote - the only candidate to really do so - and the voters answered.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Coal isn't as big a deal in Ohio, either. Trump won by appealing to the neglected feel of small Town America, more than Hillary hurt herself. People voting against Hillary were going to do so anyway. Trump inspired people to go out and vote who normally feel neglected by both parties.

I am not gonna sit here and act like I know the numbers but there is to my knowledge a bunch of steel mills in Ohio. And it branches out to related jobs like truckers who deliver tar, byproducts, and etc.

Saying coal doesn't affect Ohio is silly silly silly.
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Well technically not since he lost the popular vote but...

red sox 777 posted...

He asked for everyone's vote - the only candidate to really do so - and the voters answered.

true. he did say he welcomed leftists with open arms.

also, for an alt-right politician trump appealed to a surprisingly diverse group of people. just look at this board - several leftists (ulti, extha, vlado) and an ancap (muffin) became trump supporters. this also differentiates him from jeb! he only appealed to neocons, and even then he didn't have a modicum of the charisma W had.
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I just realized we are analyzing the 2016 election again

This is Politics version of Kanye interrupting Taylor Swift a single traumatic incident that left a scar neither side has EVER recovered from and continues to revisit years after its relevance
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

several leftists (ulti, extha, vlado)

:thinkingemoji:
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

red sox 777 posted...

He asked for everyone's vote - the only candidate to really do so - and the voters answered.

true. he did say he welcomed leftists with open arms.

also, for an alt-right politician trump appealed to a surprisingly diverse group of people. just look at this board - several leftists (ulti, extha, vlado) and an ancap (muffin) became trump supporters. this also differentiates him from jeb! he only appealed to neocons, and even then he didn't have a modicum of the charisma W had.

Ulti was never a leftist
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SupremeZero posted...

:thinkingemoji:

vlado literally used to be a communist. can't get more leftist than that.

i'll give you that ulti and extha were leftists in the american "pro-obama" sense, not in a hardcore leftist sense. ulti likes ocasio-cortez, though, and he supported bernie.

also, my point was that it's surprising that trump appealed to these guys, not that they necessarily were "leftists." even if obama wasn't a leftist, it's still a way smaller step from obama to hillary than from obama to trump.
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https://twitter.com/glennkesslerwp/status/1042457897689595904?s=21

A
wall
across
the
Sahara
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I dont know what aspect of that is the most hilarious
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I wonder if Trump realizes most of the population of North Africa lives close to the Mediterranean coast...
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red sox 777 posted...

I wonder if Trump realizes

He doesn't.
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Or the intrinsic difficulties associate with building something across sand dunes?
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

SupremeZero posted...

:thinkingemoji:

vlado literally used to be a communist. can't get more leftist than that.

i'll give you that ulti and extha were leftists in the american "pro-obama" sense, not in a hardcore leftist sense. ulti likes ocasio-cortez, though, and he supported bernie.

also, my point was that it's surprising that trump appealed to these guys, not that they necessarily were "leftists." even if obama wasn't a leftist, it's still a way smaller step from obama to hillary than from obama to trump.

I think you're joking, but none of them are leftists. Certainly not anymore. Vlado is as far to the right as you can possibly get and it doesn't matter if he used to be a communist ten years ago. What matters is he was right wing and voted for Trump specifically because Trump was right wing.

Extha also isn't a leftist. He's more of a centrist sort but has a real sore spot for feminism and that is driving him further right. Like, I do not think he is for a lot of right wing policies specifically, but he is so anti-feminism that all that other stuff doesn't matter.

Ulti is a conspiracy theorist and definitely isn't left leaning. The appeal of Occasio-Cortez or Sanders to a person like that is that they are also out of the "mainstream" and not a part of the system. It has nothing to do with their policies. They thing there is some global cabal of secret globalists globally globing their way around the globe. Anything not that is their ally. And, whenever Sanders or Occasio-Cortez say something in support of liberal or left leaning policies, Ulti is quick to call them idiots who don't understand monetary policy or this, that, etc.

Every single post Ulti has made has been in support of right or center right policies. He thinks Scalia was assassinated by Obama. He buys into every conspiracy theorist Alex Jones promotes (well, most of them).

None of those three are anywhere near the left. Extha is closest, but he absolutely isn't voting for anyone that is a proponent of modern feminism, regardless of what the rest of his political views are.
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Or across nations that arent yours
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Mr Lasastryke posted...

SupremeZero posted...

:thinkingemoji:

vlado literally used to be a communist. can't get more leftist than that.

i'll give you that ulti and extha were leftists in the american "pro-obama" sense, not in a hardcore leftist sense. ulti likes ocasio-cortez, though, and he supported bernie.

also, my point was that it's surprising that trump appealed to these guys, not that they necessarily were "leftists." even if obama wasn't a leftist, it's still a way smaller step from obama to hillary than from obama to trump.

I think you're joking, but none of them are leftists. Certainly not anymore. Vlado is as far to the right as you can possibly get and it doesn't matter if he used to be a communist ten years ago. What matters is he was right wing and voted for Trump specifically because Trump was right wing.

Extha also isn't a leftist. He's more of a centrist sort but has a real sore spot for feminism and that is driving him further right. Like, I do not think he is for a lot of right wing policies specifically, but he is so anti-feminism that all that other stuff doesn't matter.

Ulti is a conspiracy theorist and definitely isn't left leaning. The appeal of Occasio-Cortez or Sanders to a person like that is that they are also out of the "mainstream" and not a part of the system. It has nothing to do with their policies. They thing there is some global cabal of secret globalists globally globing their way around the globe. Anything not that is their ally. And, whenever Sanders or Occasio-Cortez say something in support of liberal or left leaning policies, Ulti is quick to call them idiots who don't understand monetary policy or this, that, etc.

Every single post Ulti has made has been in support of right or center right policies. He thinks Scalia was assassinated by Obama. He buys into every conspiracy theorist Alex Jones promotes (well, most of them).

None of those three are anywhere near the left. Extha is closest, but he absolutely isn't voting for anyone that is a proponent of modern feminism, regardless of what the rest of his political views are.

Am I a leftist, Suprak?
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Vlado is as far to the right as you can possibly get and it doesn't matter if he used to be a communist ten years ago. What matters is he was right wing and voted for Trump specifically because Trump was right wing.

Vlado VOTED for Trump???

Oh man this collusion goes deep
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So, to sort of go back to your original point, it is no surprise any of them voted Trump.

Vlado is as far right as you get. (Also he isn't American right? He lives in some weird little European country and probably just hates America and wants to see our global power diminish for which Trump is perfect for.)

Conspiracy theorists and Alex Jones listeners love Trump because they are right wing extremists and Trump is not a part of the traditional political landscape.

And Clinton was a feminist while Trump was about as anti-feminist as it gets.
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I HAVE to imagine you're joking, Lasa.
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Dang ninja'D by Jakyl by less than a minute. Gotta type these continuation posts quicker.

"Support" would have been more in line with what I meant.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Trump was about as anti-feminist as it gets.

I would argue someone like Pence is worse but thats kind of irrelevant to your point
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Am I a leftist, Suprak?

No, you're more of a right/center-right populist from what I've gleaned.

Right on social issues. More so center/center-right on economic issues although I've seen plenty where you are far to the right on those as well. I think I'd place you to the right of Extha, but way to the left of the other two I mentioned because you have plenty of more moderate viewpoints on a host of issues.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Am I a leftist, Suprak?

No, you're more of a right/center-right populist from what I've gleaned.

Right on social issues. More so center/center-right on economic issues although I've seen plenty where you are far to the right on those as well. I think I'd place you to the right of Extha, but way to the left of the other two I mentioned because you have plenty of more moderate viewpoints on a host of issues.

*Phew*
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Jakyl25 posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

Trump was about as anti-feminist as it gets.

I would argue someone like Pence is worse but thats kind of irrelevant to your point

Mike "Mulan is bad because its going to make women want to leave the house and join the military" Pence is a different kind of anti-feminist, but possibly worse overall, I suppose.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

I think you're joking, but none of them are leftists. Certainly not anymore. Vlado is as far to the right as you can possibly get and it doesn't matter if he used to be a communist ten years ago. What matters is he was right wing and voted for Trump specifically because Trump was right wing.

Extha also isn't a leftist. He's more of a centrist sort but has a real sore spot for feminism and that is driving him further right. Like, I do not think he is for a lot of right wing policies specifically, but he is so anti-feminism that all that other stuff doesn't matter.

Ulti is a conspiracy theorist and definitely isn't left leaning. The appeal of Occasio-Cortez or Sanders to a person like that is that they are also out of the "mainstream" and not a part of the system. It has nothing to do with their policies. They thing there is some global cabal of secret globalists globally globing their way around the globe. Anything not that is their ally. And, whenever Sanders or Occasio-Cortez say something in support of liberal or left leaning policies, Ulti is quick to call them idiots who don't understand monetary policy or this, that, etc.

Every single post Ulti has made has been in support of right or center right policies. He thinks Scalia was assassinated by Obama. He buys into every conspiracy theorist Alex Jones promotes (well, most of them).

None of those three are anywhere near the left. Extha is closest, but he absolutely isn't voting for anyone that is a proponent of modern feminism, regardless of what the rest of his political views are.

uh, are we talking about the same thing? obviously they aren't leftists NOW but they used to be. but the point is that they suddenly turned to the (alt-)right when trump announced his candidacy for the presidency. same goes for muffin. he's become a harcodre alt-rightist now, but he was an ancap/libertarian before the campaign.

honestly, as far as the "used to be a leftist" thing goes, out of those three extha is the one i'm the least confident in. he doesn't talk about politics much so i'm not entirely sure if he considered himself to be part of the left. i just vaguely remember him supporting obama.

as for vlado, i'm remembering it way differently than you are. as far as i remember his ahderence to communism was way more recent than "ten years ago." i don't recall there ever being a period when he was a more normal rightist. as far as i know he was always a communist, and then when trump announced his candidacy he jumped into the alt-right variant of the right. of course i could be misremembering, though.
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also, corrik is obviously a neocon. don't see how you can argue otherwise when he states that "GWB was the best president in his lifetime."
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

also, corrik is obviously a neocon. don't see how you can argue otherwise when he states that "GWB was the best president in his lifetime."

Spoken on neocons before.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

also, corrik is obviously a neocon. don't see how you can argue otherwise when he states that "GWB was the best president in his lifetime."

Corrik lived from 2001-2006, actually. He died 12 years ago.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

as for vlado, i'm remembering it way differently than you are. as far as i remember his ahderence to communism was way more recent than "ten years ago." i don't recall there ever being a period when he was a more normal rightist. as far as i know he was always a communist, and then when trump announced his candidacy he jumped into the alt-right variant of the right. of course i could be misremembering, though.

I'm pretty sure it was Gamergate, not Trump, but that still only puts it at like 4 years ago.
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Leftist would imply that Vlado wasn't just altering his beliefs to garner as much negative attention as humanly possible.
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