Current Events > Why did Stephen Colbert go full SJW?

(+) Yeah! (+)

darkjedilink posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

I think trump went far beyond simple criticism.

He did nothing that leftists were okay with a decade ago:

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/06/some-on-left-target-mccains-war-record-011429

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/us/politics/26ads.html (what's that? Obama LIED? Surely, the NYT is RACIST for suggesting such!)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/13/campaign.wrap/index.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/2644617/Barack-Obama-attacks-John-McCain-in-first-US-presidential-campaign-speech.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2971580/John-McCain-faces-barrage-of-attack-ads-from-Barack-Obama-supporting-Democrats.html

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/john-mccain-make-believe-maverick-202004/

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/press_box/2008/02/mccains_smoking_blonde.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/11/AR2008101102216.html (a Dem called McCain a racist and inciter of violence for DARING speaking against Obama! Why does that sound so familiar? Oh, yeah - it was literally the only campaign tactic the left had two years ago.)

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2008/Sep/12/obama_mocks_mccain_as_computer_illiterate.html

Would you also agree that these are "far beyond simple criticism?"

If not, why not?

If so, would you agree that the left flipped on him either because he was anti-Trump, or because he died, and not in any way because they realized this is shit-tier treatment of a public official?

I'm not so invested in this conversation that I'm going to click on all that stuff.

You dug the rabbit hole, dude. You're the one that brought up Trump's verbal treatment of McCain, which I will grant you was tasteless and beneath the office of the President of the United States.

My argument is that, as a leftist, the people you support on a political scale did the exact same thing, so you really don't have any moral high ground on the subject of attacking McCain. The only two differences are the people attacking McCain and McCain's health over the past decade - and none of that makes the treatment less heinous. Leftists can't have a problem with Trump attacking McCain's war record when they used that as a campaign tactic. They can't have a problem with Trump attacking his intelligence when they used that as a campaign tactic. They can't have a problem with attacking him on racial issues when they used that as a campaign tactic.

Your argument is based on a fallacy. I don't represent "the left" and "the left" does not speak for me. If I hadn't watched the third debate where trump spent his entire time melting down, I wouldn't have voted for hillary. I voted for obama in 2008 because I didn't like palin. I didn't vote in 2012 because I wasn't super impressed with obama's first term.

You keep saying "leftists can't do this or that" like you are somehow their superior officer and they take orders from you. Worse, you assume I'm defined as one of them. I'm not claiming some moral high ground. My views on morality... aren't overly conducive to moral high ground claiming.
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

I think trump went far beyond simple criticism.

He did nothing that leftists were okay with a decade ago:

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/06/some-on-left-target-mccains-war-record-011429

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/us/politics/26ads.html (what's that? Obama LIED? Surely, the NYT is RACIST for suggesting such!)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/13/campaign.wrap/index.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/2644617/Barack-Obama-attacks-John-McCain-in-first-US-presidential-campaign-speech.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/johnmccain/2971580/John-McCain-faces-barrage-of-attack-ads-from-Barack-Obama-supporting-Democrats.html

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/john-mccain-make-believe-maverick-202004/

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/press_box/2008/02/mccains_smoking_blonde.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/11/AR2008101102216.html (a Dem called McCain a racist and inciter of violence for DARING speaking against Obama! Why does that sound so familiar? Oh, yeah - it was literally the only campaign tactic the left had two years ago.)

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2008/Sep/12/obama_mocks_mccain_as_computer_illiterate.html

Would you also agree that these are "far beyond simple criticism?"

If not, why not?

If so, would you agree that the left flipped on him either because he was anti-Trump, or because he died, and not in any way because they realized this is shit-tier treatment of a public official?

I'm not so invested in this conversation that I'm going to click on all that stuff.

You dug the rabbit hole, dude. You're the one that brought up Trump's verbal treatment of McCain, which I will grant you was tasteless and beneath the office of the President of the United States.

My argument is that, as a leftist, the people you support on a political scale did the exact same thing, so you really don't have any moral high ground on the subject of attacking McCain. The only two differences are the people attacking McCain and McCain's health over the past decade - and none of that makes the treatment less heinous. Leftists can't have a problem with Trump attacking McCain's war record when they used that as a campaign tactic. They can't have a problem with Trump attacking his intelligence when they used that as a campaign tactic. They can't have a problem with attacking him on racial issues when they used that as a campaign tactic.

Your argument is based on a fallacy. I don't represent "the left" and "the left" does not speak for me. If I hadn't watched the third debate where trump spent his entire time melting down, I wouldn't have voted for hillary. I voted for obama in 2008 because I didn't like palin. I didn't vote in 2012 because I wasn't super impressed with obama's first term.

You keep saying "leftists can't do this or that" like you are somehow their superior officer and they take orders from you. Worse, you assume I'm defined as one of them. I'm not claiming some moral high ground. My views on morality... aren't overly conducive to moral high ground claiming.

But you voted for Obama despite him treating McCain EXACTLY THE SAME AS TRUMP! Why is it a problem for you NOW, despite it not being a problem for you THEN?
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darkjedilink posted...

Would you argue that this is equally as offensive?

I try not to rank scales of "offensive" because it comes across as different for different people. If you're asking for my personal opinion, I find the lynching and burning in effigy of Obama more offensive because in addition to committing crimes in effigy, it also calls to mind this country's long-established history of racism and treatment of black people.

Death threats are illegal and should be prosecuted, regardless of who they're directed to.

And I find Kathy Griffin's act disgusting as well, because I don't support any kind of killing, it doesn't help anything, and honestly I don't know what was going through her mind when she thought that was a good idea.

But remember, this line of discussion was about "respect for the office". We should probably close that line out before we move on to "who got offended more".
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McCain would have actually been a good President if he won over Obama's first term. It was hilarious to see people try to make the claim that McCain was a hardcore conservative who would never work with the left, despite all the times he stiffed Republicans and worked directly with Democrats on bills, and they elected Obama who completely fought against the Republicans the entirety of his Presidency and never once even attempted to compromise.
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darkjedilink posted...

If you look at data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics for fiscal year 2017, Americans spent more in local, state, and federal income, excise, and sales taxes, than on food and clothing combined, over the whole year, by about $600. This is average across every American they have in their statistics - you, me, our parents, brothers, sisters, everyone paid more money to the government than we did to literally feed and clothe ourselves.

If you figure in Social Security and property taxes, we paid DOUBLE in taxes than we did for food and clothing.

And same for the previous year - less money on average for all numbers, but still more in taxes than food and clothing.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm

That's the raw numbers, right there.

Now, answer this question honestly - do you implicitly trust Donald Trump to spend your money properly?

The Tax Code wasn't Passed Until Dec. 20. 2017. The tax code wasn't even enacted until after Fiscal 2017 was over... The Tax Code hasn't helped the mass populace. It's only help some elites make pledges. Fiscal Year 2017 is really people just adjusting to previous taxes. I'd also imagine those averages are pretty skewed, because of the wealth inequality.

darkjedilink posted...

Did you know that there has been record tax revenue since the tax cut took place?

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-tax-cuts-revenues-record-high-april-paying-for-themselves/

What "damage over the long term" would be caused by the government getting MORE money, by Americans individually paying less? Especially if you're arguing that the government should be getting a lot of money in taxes?

See the above.

darkjedilink posted...

Probably, but that alone doesn't mean I think he mishandled them. The Kim's are weak bullys. You ever get bullied as a kid? I did (go ahead and joke all you want). You know how the advice is always "just ignore them and they'll leave you alone?"

I've never met anyone who's actually suggested that's actually true in practice. Not a single bully I've ever dealt with left me alone by ignoring them. Instead, they saw it as fun to assault me all they wanted with no repercussions. They ONLY started to leave me alone after I snapped and busted one guy's jaw after gym class when, after punching me in the back of the head, I snapped around, punched him in the throat, then slammed him into a bench face-first. I was actually taken home by the police, and charged with assault, until the security camera footage proved I was assaulted first, and therefore acted in self-defense.

By responding with threats and force with much greater force, it taught bullies that there are real, tangible negative repercussions for f***ing with me.

And Trump going against the orthodoxy of previous Presidents ("just ignore the bully, and he'll go away"), which has resulted in absolutely nothing good as it relates to our relationship with NK, or SK's relationship with NK, has the potential of the same lesson.

Only people being bullied are North Koreans by their leader. South Korea isn't and hasn't ignored North Korea. They're literally playing Chicken with some unwilling contestants. I'm pretty sure we have been and still are at a standstill with North Korea and nothing will change until they've surrender their nuclear weapons. At that point they will no longer have any sort of leverage and Kim may be a child, but he is not dumb.

We will never see eye to eye on the notion of respect. It is earned, not given. And because you earned it someone else's eyes doesn't mean you've earned it in mine. Actually, after Helsinki... Let's just say he's not doing himself any favors.
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Howl posted...

I think I preferred parody Colbert over SJW Colbert mostly because he was unique at the time he was coming up. No one else was doing what he was doing at that time. Now, he's essentially just Trevor Noah on a bigger network. What's the difference in the two of them?

First couple of sentences are quite true, but to answer the question, they are different people with slightly different styles, but in terms of content they run the same.

Colbert is more of a presenter whereas Noah is more of a storyteller.
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CyricZ posted...

Howl posted...

I think I preferred parody Colbert over SJW Colbert mostly because he was unique at the time he was coming up. No one else was doing what he was doing at that time. Now, he's essentially just Trevor Noah on a bigger network. What's the difference in the two of them?

First couple of sentences are quite true, but to answer the question, they are different people with slightly different styles, but in terms of content they run the same.

Colbert is more of a presenter whereas Noah is more of a storyteller.

The problem I have mostly I think is just the delivery. For example I think John Oliver is hilarious. He also doesn't strictly stick to only anti-Trump tirades though. He comes up with really unique takes on issues most people have no idea about at all and makes them funny.
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CyricZ posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Would you argue that this is equally as offensive?

I try not to rank scales of "offensive" because it comes across as different for different people. If you're asking for my personal opinion, I find the lynching and burning in effigy of Obama more offensive because in addition to committing crimes in effigy, it also calls to mind this country's long-established history of racism and treatment of black people.

Death threats are illegal and should be prosecuted, regardless of who they're directed to.

And I find Kathy Griffin's act disgusting as well, because I don't support any kind of killing, it doesn't help anything, and honestly I don't know what was going through her mind when she thought that was a good idea.

But remember, this line of discussion was about "respect for the office". We should probably close that line out before we move on to "who got offended more".

It all fits in, actually - you found examples of disrespect for the office that you found offensive, even though you don't think the President is deserving of respect by default.

You are explicitly stating that a LEGAL and CONSTITUTIONALLY-PROTECTED display of disrespect of the President is categorically worse than TENS OF THOUSANDS of federal felonies committed against a different President, solely because of the race of the person being protested against.

And I bet you wonder why I talk about anti-white racism, don't you? Here is an example, right here. As offensive as I personally find the effigy, you can't legitimately tell me that tens of thousands of threats to murder the President within three weeks of election is categorically worse, JUST because Obama is black, and tell me that is NOT racism. The threats against Trump make him literally the victim of federal crimes, JUST because he won an election, but a likely racist person burns his own property is worse?
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darkjedilink posted...

But you voted for Obama despite him treating McCain EXACTLY THE SAME AS TRUMP! Why is it a problem for you NOW, despite it not being a problem for you THEN?

I voted for Obama because the thought of McCain dying in office and Palin being president horrified me. Whatever Obama said about McCain would not have changed that even if you were actually correct in your silly assumption that I knew about all of that at the time.

You're asking me why I have a problem with something now, but didn't have a problem with it in previous parallel instances that I wasn't aware of at the time. Let that sink in.
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Howl posted...

For example I think John Oliver is hilarious. He also doesn't strictly stick to only anti-Trump tirades though. He comes up with really unique takes on issues most people have no idea about at all and makes them funny.

Big agree. He's the one I continue to watch these days. I only connect with Noah and Colbert very sparingly.
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Nidhoggr posted...

I remember when Trump won and he went on a huge rant about how his grandma won't live to see a female president.

It's hard to find the video, but when he found out Trump won he started to tear up. It was absolutely glorious
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

But you voted for Obama despite him treating McCain EXACTLY THE SAME AS TRUMP! Why is it a problem for you NOW, despite it not being a problem for you THEN?

I voted for Obama because the thought of McCain dying in office and Palin being president horrified me. Whatever Obama said about McCain would not have changed that even if you were actually correct in your silly assumption that I knew about all of that at the time.

You're asking me why I have a problem with something now, but didn't have a problem with it in previous parallel instances that I wasn't aware of at the time. Let that sink in.

Let it sink in that you chose to vote for someone without even knowing what they said in their campaigns.

If, in your hatred of Trump and his voters, you have ever complained about "uninformed voters," I hope you realize you just admitted to being EXACTLY THAT.
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Colbert, to the best of my knowledge, has a long standing and personal hatred of Donald Trump. While it's also pathetically easy material for him, I suspect he enjoys it.
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Houston posted...

Nidhoggr posted...

I remember when Trump won and he went on a huge rant about how his grandma won't live to see a female president.

It's hard to find the video, but when he found out Trump won he started to tear up. It was absolutely glorious

Him and Jon Stewart both cried tears of joy when Obama was elected the first time too.
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darkjedilink posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

But you voted for Obama despite him treating McCain EXACTLY THE SAME AS TRUMP! Why is it a problem for you NOW, despite it not being a problem for you THEN?

I voted for Obama because the thought of McCain dying in office and Palin being president horrified me. Whatever Obama said about McCain would not have changed that even if you were actually correct in your silly assumption that I knew about all of that at the time.

You're asking me why I have a problem with something now, but didn't have a problem with it in previous parallel instances that I wasn't aware of at the time. Let that sink in.

Let it sink in that you chose to vote for someone without even knowing what they said in their campaigns.

If, in your hatred of Trump and his voters, you have ever complained about "uninformed voters," I hope you realize you just admitted to being EXACTLY THAT.

I don't care. I didn't need to know about every little trivial detail. My mind wouldn't have changed. Palin wouldn't have suddenly been acceptable as a VP just because Obama talked some shit.

I've never complained about uninformed trump voters. OMG ALL CAPS! THAT MEANS EXTRA THINGS :upside down face emoji:
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

But you voted for Obama despite him treating McCain EXACTLY THE SAME AS TRUMP! Why is it a problem for you NOW, despite it not being a problem for you THEN?

I voted for Obama because the thought of McCain dying in office and Palin being president horrified me. Whatever Obama said about McCain would not have changed that even if you were actually correct in your silly assumption that I knew about all of that at the time.

You're asking me why I have a problem with something now, but didn't have a problem with it in previous parallel instances that I wasn't aware of at the time. Let that sink in.

Let it sink in that you chose to vote for someone without even knowing what they said in their campaigns.

If, in your hatred of Trump and his voters, you have ever complained about "uninformed voters," I hope you realize you just admitted to being EXACTLY THAT.

I don't care. I didn't need to know about every little trivial detail. My mind wouldn't have changed. Palin wouldn't have suddenly been acceptable as a VP just because Obama talked some shit.

I've never complained about uninformed trump voters. OMG ALL CAPS! THAT MEANS EXTRA THINGS :upside down face emoji:

What do you think about informed Trump voters? I'm genuinely curious.
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

I've never complained about uninformed trump voters

Okay, cool. At least you're consistent, and I can respect that.

OMG ALL CAPS! THAT MEANS EXTRA THINGS :upside down face emoji:

You understand the concept of stressing certain points, right? And that, because a pinky on the caps key is easier for my fat, lazy ass than code, I just choose to be lazy and use caps?
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Howl posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

But you voted for Obama despite him treating McCain EXACTLY THE SAME AS TRUMP! Why is it a problem for you NOW, despite it not being a problem for you THEN?

I voted for Obama because the thought of McCain dying in office and Palin being president horrified me. Whatever Obama said about McCain would not have changed that even if you were actually correct in your silly assumption that I knew about all of that at the time.

You're asking me why I have a problem with something now, but didn't have a problem with it in previous parallel instances that I wasn't aware of at the time. Let that sink in.

Let it sink in that you chose to vote for someone without even knowing what they said in their campaigns.

If, in your hatred of Trump and his voters, you have ever complained about "uninformed voters," I hope you realize you just admitted to being EXACTLY THAT.

I don't care. I didn't need to know about every little trivial detail. My mind wouldn't have changed. Palin wouldn't have suddenly been acceptable as a VP just because Obama talked some shit.

I've never complained about uninformed trump voters. OMG ALL CAPS! THAT MEANS EXTRA THINGS :upside down face emoji:

What do you think about informed Trump voters? I'm genuinely curious.

I consider informed trump voters to be the ones who chose him because they considered him to be less of a problem than hillary. I respect that reasoning because the logic is the same as its inverse, of which I am a part.
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darkjedilink posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

I've never complained about uninformed trump voters

Okay, cool. At least you're consistent, and I can respect that.

OMG ALL CAPS! THAT MEANS EXTRA THINGS :upside down face emoji:

You understand the concept of stressing certain points, right? And that, because a pinky on the caps key is easier for my fat, lazy ass than code, I just choose to be lazy and use caps?

I like to break people's balls when they emphasize something they felt required emphasis to me when from my perspective, it did not. I use italics because I mostly phone post and code means tapping once total. Caps requires a total of three taps.
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

I consider informed trump voters to be the ones who chose him because they considered him to be less of a problem than hillary. I respect that reasoning because the logic is the same as its inverse, of which I am a part.
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That makes sense I guess. I think they are actually worse though. Because if they can rationally assess both Trump and Hillary and decided that either of them would be good for the country, rather than voting for a third party candidate, I see that as them actively harming the country, as opposed to harming the country because they are ignorant.
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

I like to break people's balls when they emphasize something they felt required emphasis to me when from my perspective, it did not. I use italics because I mostly phone post and code means tapping once total. Caps requires a total of three taps.

Fair enough.
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Howl posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

I consider informed trump voters to be the ones who chose him because they considered him to be less of a problem than hillary. I respect that reasoning because the logic is the same as its inverse, of which I am a part.
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That makes sense I guess. I think they are actually worse though. Because if they can rationally assess both Trump and Hillary and decided that either of them would be good for the country, rather than voting for a third party candidate, I see that as them actively harming the country, as opposed to harming the country because they are ignorant.

I'm more likely to abstain than vote 3rd party typically, though if other parties actually stood a chance in our system, that would be ideal.
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See guys, when you actually read what the other guy said and respond simply based on what was actually said instead of responding with our assumptions of the person, decent conversations can be accomplished. Great thread!
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CrimsonRage posted...

all the people calling colbert an sjw acting like they'd still like him if he was still doing the colbert report lol. you're aware he'd still be mocking trump and conservatives, right?

Right. There's just a non-zero chance he'd actually be funny.
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Kazi1212 posted...

See guys, when you actually read what the other guy said and respond simply based on what was actually said instead of responding with our assumptions of the person, decent conversations can be accomplished. Great thread!

This is ironic because of the next post...

CrimsonRage posted...

all the people calling colbert an sjw acting like they'd still like him if he was still doing the colbert report lol. you're aware he'd still be mocking trump and conservatives, right?

Never read any of my posts itt.
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