Current Events > Lol FBI provides 1 physical report for senate to share

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P4wn4g3 posted...

Eyewitness testimony is evidence in criminal court. Not surprising you wouldn't have picked up on that though. And frankly I'd be surprised if your own mother talks to you, let alone assault victims, so you'll have to excuse me if I dismiss your opinion on her story as garbage.

It is recognized as unreliable evidence unless it has been backed up by other evidence not including other testimonies. In the absence of hard evidence, it is regarded as no more than an interesting tale.
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I mean I could really lay into you here and explain why someone in the medical profession should understand how the brain memorizes traumas, not as a set of dates but as individual experiences, and use that to discredit you with your own argument. Why you'd say something so stupid is beyond me.

Maybe I missed your definition of "airtight" in that seething cesspool of vitriol.
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Also, don't lecture me on rape victims and memories. I've treated them. I've advocated for them. I've seen the kind of ass-backwards misogynistic bullshit they have to put up with if they try to speak out.

But just because someone has the gall to disagree with you doesn't mean they're an incompetent jackass. If that's actually how you think, you really should sit back and re-evaluate yourself.

You made a claim. I refuted it. You lost your damn mind. That's not a discussion, that's a manchild rant.
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Paragon21XX posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

Eyewitness testimony is evidence in criminal court. Not surprising you wouldn't have picked up on that though. And frankly I'd be surprised if your own mother talks to you, let alone assault victims, so you'll have to excuse me if I dismiss your opinion on her story as garbage.

It is recognized as unreliable evidence unless it has been backed up by other evidence not including other testimonies. In the absence of hard evidence, it is regarded as no more than an interesting tale.

I mean, I wouldn't necessarily dispute that except the other witnesses (particularly Judge) aren't being investigated in criminal trial.

Coffeebeanz posted...

I mean I could really lay into you here and explain why someone in the medical profession should understand how the brain memorizes traumas, not as a set of dates but as individual experiences, and use that to discredit you with your own argument. Why you'd say something so stupid is beyond me.

Maybe I missed your definition of "airtight" in that seething cesspool of vitriol.

I'm not sure what you want me to say here. You want me to play judge and say there's enough evidence for a conviction? I don't have the insight to do that. But taken by itself, Ford's testimony is inline with any traumatized accuser's in the way she remembered it and presented it. I mean she said she just wanted to make the public aware and didn't know how to go about doing so.
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Ford's testimony is inline with any traumatized accuser's in the way she remembered it and presented it.

I agree, but that doesn't make it "airtight".

It just makes it credible. Airtight is irrefutable, and that's a tall order for any accusation.
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@Coffeebeanz - I like you, I think you're smart and funny.

With that out of the way, we both know that Kavanaugh will get confirmed. One day you may have to help a poor woman whose life is in danger because she tried a back alley or clothes hanger abortion (perhaps because the baby was the product of rape) and you will have to wonder if this is because your boy Kavanaugh overturned Roe vs Wade.

Or maybe you will have to treat some poor guy who is having a deadly side effect to some drug that should be considered safe but your boy Kav ruled that class action lawsuits shouldn't be a thing or that laboratories don't have to provide side effect information.

Or maybe you will get mysteriously denied for something because somebody is spying the fuck out of what you post here and/or got access to your fetishes or whatever because your boy Kav ruled that there is no right to privacy.

And you will have to live with that, and the fact that you shilled for him so hard right now.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Ford's testimony is inline with any traumatized accuser's in the way she remembered it and presented it.

I agree, but that doesn't make it "airtight".

It just makes it credible. Airtight is irrefutable, and that's a tall order for any accusation.

OK so you're just playing the part of the armchair lawyer. Christ.
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It's a joke of an 'investigation' and the only purpose is so a few Republicans can use it as cover to try and justify their yes votes. Republicans are disgusting.
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Doom_Art posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

So what we're left with is what will likely be a confirmation that will always remain very controversial. Whether or not it actually should be.

That was a valid strategy for the Dems tbh

Make what should've been a routine appointment controversial and toxic going in to midterms and if Kavanaugh is confirmed this makes any SCOTUS decisions he's part of controversial and gives the left the ability to cast doubt on them

The only reason we're even at this point is because Dems need to make people care.

People don't give a shit about Kavanaugh lying numerous times or having the belief that POTUS is above the law. They don't care. Hammering that stuff in won't change shit because GOP is all for it and Inds are just gonna handwave "same thing both sides."

BJ-blazkowics posted...

@Coffeebeanz - I like you, I think you're smart and funny.

With that out of the way, we both know that Kavanaugh will get confirmed. One day you may have to help a poor woman whose life is in danger because she tried a back alley or clothes hanger abortion (perhaps because the baby was the product of rape) and you will have to wonder if this is because your boy Kavanaugh overturned Roe vs Wade.

Or maybe you will have to treat some poor guy who is having a deadly side effect to some drug that should be considered safe but your boy Kav ruled that class action lawsuits shouldn't be a thing or that laboratories don't have to provide side effect information.

Or maybe you will get mysteriously denied for something because somebody is spying the fuck out of what you post here and/or got access to your fetishes or whatever because your boy Kav ruled that there is no right to privacy.

And you will have to live with that, and the fact that you shilled for him so hard right now.

I hate Kavanaugh and the GOP with every fragment of my being. He doesn't even belong on lower courts, let alone the SCOTUS. Also Trump mocking Ford is impeachment-level pathetic. I'm also pro-abortion.

But aside from that I think you're on to something.

I "shill" for the truth. That thing literally nobody, on either side, actually seems to care about.
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BJ-blazkowics posted...

And you will have to live with that, and the fact that you shilled for him so hard right now.

Coffee is shilling for impartiality and fairness. You're supposed to fight for what's right, even when it isn't convenient for you. I'm sure she doesn't love Kav, but that's not an excuse forget how fairness in evaluating the accused works.
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s0nicfan posted...

BJ-blazkowics posted...

And you will have to live with that, and the fact that you shilled for him so hard right now.

Coffee is shilling for impartiality and fairness. You're supposed to fight for what's right, even when it isn't convenient for you. I'm sure she doesn't love Kav, but that's not an excuse forget how fairness in evaluating the accused works.

I don't agree with incriminating someone just because it's politically expedient.

Kavanaugh's shitty political views are the reason he should be denied.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

I "shill" for the truth. That thing literally nobody, on either side, actually seems to care about.

We fucking care for the truth, that's why we want transparency in this high profile investigation, that's why we want a full criminal trial. It won't happen because fucking politics.
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And in any case, I still think there's a very real possibility Ford was telling the truth.

But since I can't say for certain, objectively I have to assume Kavanaugh's innocence.

He seems like an emotional manchild, though.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Eyewitness testimony is evidence in criminal court. Not surprising you wouldn't have picked up on that though. And frankly I'd be surprised if your own mother talks to you, let alone assault victims, so you'll have to excuse me if I dismiss your opinion on her story as garbage.

Eyewitness testimony is evidence. She doesn't have any eyewitness testimony to corroborate her allegations.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

And in any case, I still think there's a very real possibility Ford was telling the truth.

But since I can't say for certain, objectively I have to assume Kavanaugh's innocence.

He seems like an emotional manchild, though.

You can assume his innocence (or rather consider him not guilty) but did he rape someone should not be the end all be all here. This isnt a criminal investigation. Its highly likely that he also lied under oath if the reports of what his college classmates are saying are true.
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darkjedilink posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

Eyewitness testimony is evidence in criminal court. Not surprising you wouldn't have picked up on that though. And frankly I'd be surprised if your own mother talks to you, let alone assault victims, so you'll have to excuse me if I dismiss your opinion on her story as garbage.

Eyewitness testimony is evidence. She doesn't have any eyewitness testimony to corroborate her allegations.

Technically she said she did, but those witnesses couldn't corroborate it.
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idk, I haven't really talked about this issue much because I actually don't really care about the angle that he's a garbage human so he shouldn't be on the supreme court

frankly his hyper-partisan background is the deal breaker for me; it's very atypical for a justice

like of course they have ideological backgrounds (RBG being involved with the ACLU, whatever) but the explicitly partisan nature of kavanaugh's is crazy
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VipaGTS posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

And in any case, I still think there's a very real possibility Ford was telling the truth.

But since I can't say for certain, objectively I have to assume Kavanaugh's innocence.

He seems like an emotional manchild, though.

You can assume his innocence (or rather consider him not guilty) but did he rape someone should not be the end all be all here. This isnt a criminal investigation. Its highly likely that he also lied under oath if the reports of what his college classmates are saying are true.

Hey man if you want to go down that route, I'm actually all for it.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

I "shill" for the truth. That thing literally nobody, on either side, actually seems to care about.

We fucking care for the truth, that's why we want transparency in this high profile investigation, that's why we want a full criminal trial. It won't happen because fucking politics.

It won't happen because no prosecutor would put their reputation on the line by attempting to prosecute the allegation with no evidence or eyewitness testimony to corroborate it.

They don't even have an address where it took place.
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darkjedilink posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

Eyewitness testimony is evidence in criminal court. Not surprising you wouldn't have picked up on that though. And frankly I'd be surprised if your own mother talks to you, let alone assault victims, so you'll have to excuse me if I dismiss your opinion on her story as garbage.

Eyewitness testimony is evidence. She doesn't have any eyewitness testimony to corroborate her allegations.

She already went on record to say that the dates could be further clarified by looking into when Judge worked at Safeway, thereby producing more eyewitness testimony. There's a mountain of obstruction from Trump through the whole thing.
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Pretty sad that Kavanaugh's fitness for duty has been boiled down to "Is he a rapist? Yes or no?" Obviously you don't appoint a rapist, but is "Not a rapist" really the proper standard for a lifetime appointment on what is supposed to be an impartal position in the highest court of the land?

Americans are embarrassing.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

VipaGTS posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

And in any case, I still think there's a very real possibility Ford was telling the truth.

But since I can't say for certain, objectively I have to assume Kavanaugh's innocence.

He seems like an emotional manchild, though.

You can assume his innocence (or rather consider him not guilty) but did he rape someone should not be the end all be all here. This isnt a criminal investigation. Its highly likely that he also lied under oath if the reports of what his college classmates are saying are true.

Hey man if you want to go down that route, I'm actually all for it.

I mean that is literally the route we should be going down. Thats the entire point of this investigation. His integrity as a person and how that translates to him being a judge is partly whats in question here.
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I do think it would make the Democrats look exceptionally petty to nail him for perjury because he under-stated his drinking and partying habits, but if it keeps him out of the SCOTUS and keeps Donald Trump locked up with BS for a while, I think it's worth it.
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darkjedilink posted...

They don't even have an address where it took place.

She could describe the house pretty accurately. Look, I don't fucking know the address of my old home in Rosenberg but I can tell you exactly what it looked like. That's without having been there in 27 years. Others can corroborate that yes, that's what it looks like. Talking points like these aren't some sort of damning wrecking ball to a testimony.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

I do think it would make the Democrats look exceptionally petty to nail him for perjury because he under-stated his drinking and partying habits, but if it keeps him out of the SCOTUS and keeps Donald Trump locked up with BS for a while, I think it's worth it.

If it is politically advantageous for the Dems and gives the GOP a headache then I'm all for it
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VipaGTS posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

VipaGTS posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

And in any case, I still think there's a very real possibility Ford was telling the truth.

But since I can't say for certain, objectively I have to assume Kavanaugh's innocence.

He seems like an emotional manchild, though.

You can assume his innocence (or rather consider him not guilty) but did he rape someone should not be the end all be all here. This isnt a criminal investigation. Its highly likely that he also lied under oath if the reports of what his college classmates are saying are true.

Hey man if you want to go down that route, I'm actually all for it.

I mean that is literally the route we should be going down. Thats the entire point of this investigation. His integrity as a person and how that translates to him being a judge is partly whats in question here.

So, you think it's an acceptable course of action to throw out a bunch of uncorroborated sexual assault allegations, hoping something might stick, JUST to catch someone in a lie?
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Doom_Art posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

I do think it would make the Democrats look exceptionally petty to nail him for perjury because he under-stated his drinking and partying habits, but if it keeps him out of the SCOTUS and keeps Donald Trump locked up with BS for a while, I think it's worth it.

If it is politically advantageous for the Dems and gives the GOP a headache then I'm all for it

The GOP losing all their seats everywhere is my ultimate goal.

But alas, that'll never happen as long as we have this two-party "the enemy of my enemy" mentality.
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So, you think it's an acceptable course of action to throw out a bunch of uncorroborated sexual assault allegations, hoping something might stick, JUST to catch someone in a lie?

That's actually what the GOP did to Clinton in the 90's, although I guess in that case those allegations were more or less accurate (though their actual importance was very debatable).

I still think what the GOP did to Clinton was petty and dumb. Nailed him on perjury for a testimony he really didn't need to give anyway.
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I have my doubts it's possible to move away from the two party system in America, unfortunately.
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Honestly, nobody can really deny that the GOP sort of dug its own grave with this. By stalling Merrick Garland, they started a dangerous trend. Now they're on the receiving end and whining about it.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

I do think it would make the Democrats look exceptionally petty to nail him for perjury because he under-stated his drinking and partying habits, but if it keeps him out of the SCOTUS and keeps Donald Trump locked up with BS for a while, I think it's worth it.

Understated? If people are going to attack Ford for not remembering certain events they cant give Kavanaugh the benefit of the doubt for understating. They want her to remember everything with 20/20 vision like it was yesterday but Kavanaugh can stretch the truth a little and tell half lies to make himself look better? Again, thats a question of integrity. If he didnt do it there would be no reason to smear the line like that and understate. Im not saying that means he did it but it does call his character into question.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

I have my doubts it's possible to move away from the two party system in America, unfortunately.

I know T_T

It's pretty depressing to think about. I'd talk myself out of this misanthropic mindset, but it's so hard to convince myself otherwise.
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VipaGTS posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

I do think it would make the Democrats look exceptionally petty to nail him for perjury because he under-stated his drinking and partying habits, but if it keeps him out of the SCOTUS and keeps Donald Trump locked up with BS for a while, I think it's worth it.

Understated? If people are going to attack Ford for not remembering certain events they cant give Kavanaugh the benefit of the doubt for understating. They want her to remember everything with 20/20 vision like it was yesterday but Kavanaugh can stretch the truth a little and tell half lies to make himself look better? Again, thats a question of integrity. If he didnt do it there would be no reason to smear the line like that and understate. Im not saying that means he did it but it does call his character into question.

Hey man I agree with you. I think it's a legitimate angle to get him from. The only real issue is that it'll look pretty nitpicky. But it's probably worth the relatively small political price.
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VipaGTS posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

I do think it would make the Democrats look exceptionally petty to nail him for perjury because he under-stated his drinking and partying habits, but if it keeps him out of the SCOTUS and keeps Donald Trump locked up with BS for a while, I think it's worth it.

Understated? If people are going to attack Ford for not remembering certain events they cant give Kavanaugh the benefit of the doubt for understating. They want her to remember everything with 20/20 vision like it was yesterday but Kavanaugh can stretch the truth a little and tell half lies to make himself look better? Again, thats a question of integrity. If he didnt do it there would be no reason to smear the line like that and understate. Im not saying that means he did it but it does call his character into question.

In the end Kav does have his 5th amendment rights, which if he'd just invoked that this whole time he would have come out looking much better.
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In the end Kav does have his 5th amendment rights, which if he'd just invoked that this whole time he would have come out looking much better.

The whole "rabid emotional trainwreck" thing didn't exactly help, either.
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Nobody actually believes that if Kav responded to all these accusations with "I plead the 5th" that he would have come out looking better, do they? Are we really pretending that responding to "he tried to rape me" with "I refuse to say anything that could incriminate me" would be taken better than an outright denial?
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Nobody actually believes that if Kav responded to all these accusations with "I plead the 5th" that he would have come out looking better, do they?

Normally I'd agree with you, but Kav sounded like an unhinged manchild. That may not have hurt his presumed innocence, but it certainly hurt his appearance of basic competency.
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s0nicfan posted...

Nobody actually believes that if Kav responded to all these accusations with "I plead the 5th" that he would have come out looking better, do they? Are we really pretending that responding to "he tried to rape me" with "I refuse to say anything that could incriminate me" would be taken better than an outright denial?

lol I mean he was pretty clearly lying about what devil's triangle referred to

I'm not saying he should have plead the 5th, though... and it is the kind of thing that would almost certainly tank his nomination

dunno how much we want to weigh these little lies but yeah
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Doom_Art posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

I do think it would make the Democrats look exceptionally petty to nail him for perjury because he under-stated his drinking and partying habits, but if it keeps him out of the SCOTUS and keeps Donald Trump locked up with BS for a while, I think it's worth it.

If it is politically advantageous for the Dems and gives the GOP a headache then I'm all for it

As long as you admit that you have no morals, go ahead.
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I think the DNC should go after these lies as long as they can. Lying is a legitimate reason to not be a SCOTUS appointment.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

I think the DNC should go after these lies as long as they can. Lying is a legitimate reason to not be a SCOTUS appointment.

Really though that's the impeachment route. Who knows what that would yield.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

I think the DNC should go after these lies as long as they can. Lying is a legitimate reason to not be a SCOTUS appointment.

Do you really want to hold 'lying' up as a standard, after supporting Obama, Clinton, Rosenstein, and Come?
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Nobody actually believes that if Kav responded to all these accusations with "I plead the 5th" that he would have come out looking better, do they?

Normally I'd agree with you, but Kav sounded like an unhinged manchild. That may not have hurt his presumed innocence, but it certainly hurt his appearance of basic competency.

So you stated before that coming from Ford's perspective and believing that she isn't lying, her behavior seems normal for someone in that situation.

Just for a moment, I'd like you to apply that same concept to him. Pretend for just a second that he truly believes he didn't do it. He's in front of congress after weeks of being accused of rape across the country. His family is receiving death threats. He knows he won't be able to go back to his normal hobbies. People are coming out of the woodwork to accuse him of all sorts of crazy things. Senators are calling a vote for him being "complicit in evil", and after all this drama and pain there's a chance that it will all be for nothing and he'll be unceremoniously dumped because it's politically safe going into the midterms, putting him in a position where his career which he's built over a lifetime suddenly is at a dead end. Is it really fair to call his response that of an unhinged manchild, given that perspective?
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im sick of hearing about this
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I think launching further investigations against the guy is definitely valid. Keep it up even if he gets confirmed. Make it is toxic as possible for as long as possible for the GOP to have him on the court.
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Democrats are the gold standard when it comes to morals. Believe me.
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s0nicfan posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Nobody actually believes that if Kav responded to all these accusations with "I plead the 5th" that he would have come out looking better, do they?

Normally I'd agree with you, but Kav sounded like an unhinged manchild. That may not have hurt his presumed innocence, but it certainly hurt his appearance of basic competency.

So you stated before that coming from Ford's perspective and believing that she isn't lying, her behavior seems normal for someone in that situation.

Just for a moment, I'd like you to apply that same concept to him. Pretend for just a second that he truly believes he didn't do it. He's in front of congress after weeks of being accused of rape across the country. His family is receiving death threats. He knows he won't be able to go back to his normal hobbies. People are coming out of the woodwork to accuse him of all sorts of crazy things. Senators are calling a vote for him being "complicit in evil", and after all this drama and pain there's a chance that it will all be for nothing and he'll be unceremoniously dumped because it's politically safe going into the midterms, putting him in a position where his career which he's built over a lifetime suddenly is at a dead end. Is it really fair to call his response that of an unhinged manchild, given that perspective?

Yes, because it was.
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s0nicfan posted...

Just for a moment, I'd like you to apply that same concept to him. Pretend for just a second that he truly believes he didn't do it. He's in front of congress after weeks of being accused of rape across the country. His family is receiving death threats. He knows he won't be able to go back to his normal hobbies. People are coming out of the woodwork to accuse him of all sorts of crazy things. Senators are calling a vote for him being "complicit in evil", and after all this drama and pain there's a chance that it will all be for nothing and he'll be unceremoniously dumped because it's politically safe going into the midterms, putting him in a position where his career which he's built over a lifetime suddenly is at a dead end. Is it really fair to call his response that of an unhinged manchild, given that perspective?

he's a long time high-level political operative

I mean, idk, whisper campaigns are pretty normal, John McCain never attacked Bush and the bankster establishment for talking about his supposed illegitimate bastard child for instance

or, like, Obama never threw the entire GOP under the bus for supporting birther lies

granted these are not as serious as allegations of sexual assault, but it makes sense to hold these people to a higher standard than an average non-public servant imo
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s0nicfan posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Nobody actually believes that if Kav responded to all these accusations with "I plead the 5th" that he would have come out looking better, do they?

Normally I'd agree with you, but Kav sounded like an unhinged manchild. That may not have hurt his presumed innocence, but it certainly hurt his appearance of basic competency.

So you stated before that coming from Ford's perspective and believing that she isn't lying, her behavior seems normal for someone in that situation.

Just for a moment, I'd like you to apply that same concept to him. Pretend for just a second that he truly believes he didn't do it. He's in front of congress after weeks of being accused of rape across the country. His family is receiving death threats. He knows he won't be able to go back to his normal hobbies. People are coming out of the woodwork to accuse him of all sorts of crazy things. Senators are calling a vote for him being "complicit in evil", and after all this drama and pain there's a chance that it will all be for nothing and he'll be unceremoniously dumped because it's politically safe going into the midterms, putting him in a position where his career which he's built over a lifetime suddenly is at a dead end. Is it really fair to call his response that of an unhinged manchild, given that perspective?

Wouldn't really be an issue if we could have an unbiased criminal investigation instead of playing politics. If he's innocent he surely has just as much eyewitness testimony as Ford, which can't be considered guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
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