Current Events > I've started playing Dark Souls for the first time! :D *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Catacombs is another late game area. With an annoying gimmick as well.

At this point I would just look up where the Undead Burg is. My experience was very similar to yours btw (turn around from Anor Londo, fuck around in the Catacombs, look up where I'm supposed to go).

You want to be in Undead Burg.

Edit: Imo Undead Burg is, for whatever reason, the easiest path to miss.
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Navigation in this game is a nightmare. Just finding stuff you need to find.

Also, why put something extremely hard you aren't meant to use for a long time right there? Just to trick new players? Just to annoy people? This is pretty bad game design.

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classic sunhawk topic
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ooooooh. i wish i had the switch version, i'd be all up in that world.

what level are you?
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I'm not sure. Level 4, maybe? I don't know how, though, because I don't remember ever levelling up.
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Sunhawk posted...

Navigation in this game is a nightmare. Just finding stuff you need to find.

Also, why put something extremely hard you aren't meant to use for a long time right there? Just to trick new players? Just to annoy people? This is pretty bad game design.

Navigation is its worst at the beginning. Once you get your bearings, you'll know how to get around. I honestly believe finding Undead Burg is the biggest navigational challenge in the game.

As for the late game areas, there are a couple reasons. One is to build a cohesive world. There isn't an arbitrary wall blocking you from most areas in the game, you don't go to them because you don't need to go to them or can't make it through doing so. And, if you are good enough and know how to tackle those areas, you can "sequence" break in future playthroughs for fun.

Another is that almost all areas have a pretty close connection to Firelink in some way. When you need to take on New Londo and the Catacombs, they are waiting for you when they left them. And, at some point in the game, you may want to return to certain areas to farm items.
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Yeah definitely dont go in the Catacombs. Its a dead end.

The lift into New Londo, that area will not be fun for someone new.

The proper first area is up the steps along the cliff up to an aquaduct.

Im currently there and level 15 so once you cut your teeth in there feel free to hit me up for jolly cooperation.
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Level 4, maybe?

oooh i think you picked a warrior. sick.

i wish i could play dark souls with zero memory of it again. i just want to say that the game rewards exploration handsomely. even if you go down a 'wrong' path early on (and i'm loathe to call them that) you'll be better-prepared for it the second time through if you comb.

what weapon are you using? planning on using? have any plans like that?
caster build?
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I tried getting to the aquaduct, but I thought it was a dead end; as for New Londo, I found it once or twice, then never got back. How do you get to New Londo from the fire place?

I hate confusing exploration in games. I've had this quite a lot recently. DS, Wolfenstein 2, even SMO to an extent. Exploring used to be fun, in stuff like SM64, SMS, and Fallout 3, amongst other games.

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I just started playing the Switch version last night. The game is so, so, so much easier if you've played it before and know the mechanics. Beat the first boss only using one Estus Flask, and that's because I got cocky.

It's not a "hard" game. It's a fair game. Respect the mechanics and you'll find that it never just cheaply punishes you (which was a problem with Demon's Souls)
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Do you have to jump to get to aqueduct?

Maybe that's why you thought it was a dead end.
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I hate confusing exploration in games.

there's actually an item that some NPCs sell called a prism stone; if you use them, your guy drops one in front of him. you can mark your way with these like i did, but their main use is to see if you'll die if you jump from a certain height.

I just started playing the Switch version last night. The game is so, so, so much easier if you've played it before and know the mechanics. Beat the first boss only using one Estus Flask, and that's because I got cocky.

maaaan i already have my build planned out and everything. i don't think i'm gonna drop $300 for one game, though, even if it is dark souls. if anything could sell me it's invasions wherever, though.
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I'm a warrior, yeah, although I only picked it because it was first on the list.

I'm using some kind of mace weapon, because my sword disappeared somehow. I don't know what "caster build" means, if anything.

I must admit, this game is VERY different to how I imagined. I thought it would be like BotW, or something similar, and I could explore really freely. After I'd done the intro bit, I could just strike off in any of 10 or 20 directions. I also thought the beginning would be more forgiving. I expected the focus was on combat and platforming, not boring and frustrating exploring. But people say this is a classic game. Admittedly, though, those people are basically hardcore RPG fans, and Sony gamers, neither of which I can relate to that well.

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Jabodie posted...

Do you have to jump to get to aqueduct?

Maybe that's why you thought it was a dead end.

I don't know. I'm yet to find out how to jump, and I've been playing for about 6 hours. Figuring out new games hasn't always been my forte.

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Sunhawk posted...

I tried getting to the aquaduct, but I thought it was a dead end; as for New Londo, I found it once or twice, then never got back. How do you get to New Londo from the fire place?

I hate confusing exploration in games. I've had this quite a lot recently. DS, Wolfenstein 2, even SMO to an extent. Exploring used to be fun, in stuff like SM64, SMS, and Fallout 3, amongst other games.

(Starting at Firelink bonfire)
Undead Berg: Head past the well and bear right. Theres a small area along the cliff here with enemies and a slope heading upwards. At the top of the slope are stone steps leading into the aquaduct.

New Londo: In the opposite direction of the well right before dropping off the ledge theres stairs leading down behind the bonfire. Follow that down. On your left is a cage with an NPC. Keep her in mind. Keep going forward and another set of steps on the ledge will lead you to the lift.

Jumping: Hold A to run. Then quickly unpress A and press again to jump.

Its weird and difficult to do accurately and confidently but I think the developers do that on purpose :S
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I'm a warrior, yeah, although I only picked it because it was first on the list.

starting class really doesn't matter too much unless you're trying to conserve levels.

I don't know what "caster build" means, if anything.

magic :o

I also thought the beginning would be more forgiving. I expected the focus was on combat and platforming, not boring and frustrating exploring.

it kinda is. as people have said, if one way proves too difficult, try another. unless you want to power through.

the combat invariably feels clunky at first but once you get used to the controls things will smooth out. it's like super metroid to me in that regard.

jumping *answered by someone who actually knows*
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I wish you were streaming this
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I've discovered in this topic that...

A. Dark Souls fans are very smug and elitist.
B. Dark Souls fans are aggressive, and don't a new player playing badly well at all.

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Sunhawk posted...

I've discovered in this topic that...

A. Dark Souls fans are very smug and elitist.
B. Dark Souls fans are aggressive, and don't a new player playing badly well at all.

To be fair you're doing a terrible job and whine a lot

Struggling with poor game design =/= "doing a terrible job".

But yeah, I'm whining a lot. It's justified, though. Like when you're playing a Halo on Legendary Mode.

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A. Dark Souls fans are very smug and elitist.
B. Dark Souls fans are aggressive, and don't a new player playing badly well at all.

you're right about both, and this is coming from a huge dark souls fan.

concerning B, i really think this game will get easier for you the more you play it. when i first played it, i went in just about entirely blind, and oh did i waste time and get lost. i don't think the game is poorly designed.
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Sunhawk posted...

Struggling with poor game design =/= "doing a terrible job".

Lol. Imagine blaming your shortcomings on other shit this hard. The game has been unanimously praised for the opposite until you decided to show up
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you're not helping.

again, to me, just like super metroid. first time you play that, it feels like you're controlling a giant metal suit. these days, that suit is made of foam.
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Pancake posted...

you're not helping.

Im not trying to help catter to his whining. Like my second post told him how to not get these kind of responses. This is more about his personality to me than the game. He's the first dude in 5-6 years that I seen blame "terrible design" in a series that is praised for the exact opposite. And he played out the whole reason being he came in with a different idea of a game and is whining that it's a different game than he thought.

"Respect the guy shitting on one your favorite series because he doesn't get it"

...im good
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a lot of people have these same complaints when they start, though. it takes a little time.
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Dropped in Firelink for the first time does suck though. I had the same experience.

Also getting all the way to Nitos barricade only to see its a dead end and having to trek all the way back is just plain aggravating.

More care could have been made to guide players in the direction of Undead Berg without comprising the games tone or exploration. Its clearly a failure on the games part unless the intention was to make players first experience be confusion and aggravation....then in that case it succeeds.
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Also getting all the way to [...] only to see its a dead end and having to trek all the way back is just plain aggravating.

actually, i did that on my first playthrough, too, and it's where i started to really appreciate the game's design in terms of exploration and rewards. i don't want to spoil anything.
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Dark Souls isn't poor game design. It just doesn't hold your hand. It gives you everything you need / need to know, but it's up to you to put forth the effort to find out.
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Pancake posted...

Also getting all the way to [...] only to see its a dead end and having to trek all the way back is just plain aggravating.

actually, i did that on my first playthrough, too, and it's where i started to really appreciate the game's design in terms of exploration and rewards. i don't want to spoil anything.

Its a noticeablely long one way street in a game with common shortcuts and interconnectivity. You can still have the exploration and rewards without the now do all that shit again but backwards because fuck you.
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i just kept going because nothing actually stopped me. having to fight your way back out is a fair cost to that approach, i think. live by and die by.
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Sunhawk posted...

I've discovered in this topic that...

A. Dark Souls fans are very smug and elitist.
B. Dark Souls fans are aggressive, and don't a new player playing badly well at all.

everyone in this thread has done nothing but give you detailed advice, you just ignore it lol
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past the well, facing the cliff are stairs and a few baddies leading to an aqueduct. Inside youll find a rat guarding an item on one end and on the far end, a locked gate and more stairs next to it. Youll want to go up the stairs. This is the entrance to the first area in the game: the Undead Burg.

Youll find enemies more manageable than some other areas you already have access to. Its a tad confusing to get there but this route is ideal if you havent played before.
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Well, I got to Undead Burg. The entrance really was confusing. A lot of people probably wouldn't notice that gap in the aquedact (as I didn't the first several times). From what I played, it was kinda fun, actually getting to kill enemies rather than avoid EVERY one. The layout was kinda fun. I still don't know what you're ultimately meant to be doing in each area, if there's a boss to fight, if there's some important item to collect, etc.

I think I'm gonna stop playing. I'm really not enjoying this game much. I know the legions of Dark Souls fans will tell me I'm a horrible person, but whatever. Just doesn't seem like much fun, and is a lot more linear than I imagined. I hung in there for about 6 hours, though, which is more than I usually give to a game I'm not enjoying much at all.

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Congrats. You quit before even fighting a boss.
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Yeah, except I did fight a boss. About 70 minutes in.
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Sunhawk posted...

Yeah, except I did fight a boss. About 70 minutes in.

That wasn't a boss.

That was literally a checkpoint to make sure you have the basic mechanics down.
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6 hours and didn't even finish the burg, this is hilarious
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Lmao
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Dark Souls fans are worse than Zelda fans, or Assassin's Creed fans.

Or even Smash fans. I went there, I said it.

Anyway, why shouldn't a person quit a game after putting in a few hours, and enjoying it very little? Most good games are fun within 10 or 20 minutes. It wasn't like I just played for an hour, and quit out of boredom.

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Yahtzee thought like TC for a long time until he gave DS another go, and then it became one of his most loved games.
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Sunhawk posted...

Dark Souls fans are worse than Zelda fans, or Assassin's Creed fans.

Or even Smash fans. I went there, I said it.

Anyway, why shouldn't a person quit a game after putting in a few hours, and enjoying it very little? Most good games are fun within 10 or 20 minutes. It wasn't like I just played for an hour, and quit out of boredom.

Great. Have fun playing something else.

Just don't claim you actually played enough DS to know what you're talking about.
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this thread is like someone at the bottom of a well crying out for help and while everyone advises him to climb up he begins digging downwards in an attempt to pop out the other side of the planet to escape
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Who cares what Yagtzee thinks, of all people? He isn't still releasing stuff on the internet, is he? The last time I checked out his stuff was probably 3 or 4 years ago.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Sunhawk posted...

Dark Souls fans are worse than Zelda fans, or Assassin's Creed fans.

Or even Smash fans. I went there, I said it.

Anyway, why shouldn't a person quit a game after putting in a few hours, and enjoying it very little? Most good games are fun within 10 or 20 minutes. It wasn't like I just played for an hour, and quit out of boredom.

Great. Have fun playing something else.

Just don't claim you actually played enough DS to know what you're talking about.

I did play enough. I put in about 6 hours. That's more than enough to see what a game is like. You know, in most games, that would take you about three quarters of the way through the main game.

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Sunhawk posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Sunhawk posted...

Dark Souls fans are worse than Zelda fans, or Assassin's Creed fans.

Or even Smash fans. I went there, I said it.

Anyway, why shouldn't a person quit a game after putting in a few hours, and enjoying it very little? Most good games are fun within 10 or 20 minutes. It wasn't like I just played for an hour, and quit out of boredom.

Great. Have fun playing something else.

Just don't claim you actually played enough DS to know what you're talking about.

I did play enough. I put in about 6 hours. That's more than enough to see what a game is like. You know, in most games, that would take you about three quarters of the way through the main game.

It's really not the game's fault you couldn't handle its easy tutorial
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"Easy"? There's plenty of difficulty, and navigating is confusing and bad.

I'm not surprised you like this game, MC_BatCommander. I'm not surprised at all.

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I did play enough. I put in about 6 hours. That's more than enough to see what a game is like. You know, in most games, that would take you about three quarters of the way through the main game.

The Undead Burg is literally the first actual area in the game. Everything up to it is tutorial.

If you didn't make it to the boss, you might as well say you haven't opened the shrink-wrap.
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It is easy, the simple fact you couldn't handle it is very telling of your ability.

And I'm glad you're not surprised, I have far better taste than you after all
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Sunhawk posted...

"Easy"? There's plenty of difficulty, and navigating is confusing and bad.

I'm not surprised you like this game, MC_BatCommander. I'm not surprised at all.

You have to be trolling us lol. You haven't faced anything difficult yet outside of the high level areas meant to guide you away from them.
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I wish you would give it more of a chance, you have basically made it through the tutorial on probably the most dull area of the game. As far as your progress, it's essentially the same as playing Fallout or Skyrim for an hour and quitting and saying you hate it, you haven't even touched what the game has to offer.

I'm not trying to give you grief, but a game like this you should spend more time with before deciding if you are going to like it or not, especially if you enjoy RPGs.
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