Current Events > Trump claims he can defy Constitution and end birthright citizenship

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/30/politics/donald-trump-ending-birthright-citizenship/index.html
---

ScazarMeltex posted...

Leader of the party who spent all 8 years of the last presidency bitching about executive overreach.

"Accuse the opposition of that which you are guilty"

It's been one of their three biggest strategies since 2001

Court system is now weighted in his favor, he can have things "reinterpreted" lol

ArchiePeck posted...

Court system is now weighted in his favor, he can have things "reinterpreted" lol

That assumes they'll goose step on this issue.
---

As a means of stopping the anchor baby thing?

yeah

birthright citizenship is an outdated idea. we needed it after the civil war, but now immigrants just abuse it
---

"It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don't," he said, adding that he has run it by his counsel. "You can definitely do it with an act of Congress. But now they're saying I can do it just with an executive order," Trump said.

lol you definitely need a constitutional amendment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_Clause
---

Philoktetes posted...

birthright citizenship is an outdated idea

is checks and balances and the Constitution?
---

Absolutely. If he could do this, it would be the most important moment of his presidency. It would automatically make him one of my favorite presidents.
---

Dont get it twisted, he only wants to enforce the executive order on brown kids born in the United States.
---

Jackal4 posted...

Absolutely. If he could do this, it would be the most important moment of his presidency. It would automatically make him one of my favorite presidents.

A president unilaterally disregarding part of the Constitution would make him your favorite president?
---

Trump's vow to end the right to citizenship for the children of non-citizens

Hahaha and you thought he was going only for illegals?

You could be a PERMANENT RESIDENT and if your offspring is born here he wont have the citizenship. Imagine that.

Imagine youre a rocket scientist or the guy whos researching to cure cancer but youre here on a visa and spend 20 years here and your offspring is born here, when your research is done your 20 yr old will have to go to some country he never knew, which speaks a language he may not know, because after 20 years he/she is not a citizen of the only country he/she knows!

ArchiePeck posted...

Court system is now weighted in his favor, he can have things "reinterpreted" lol

Yeah. Gorsuch and Kavanaugh will say whatever he wants

pegusus123456 posted...

Jackal4 posted...

Absolutely. If he could do this, it would be the most important moment of his presidency. It would automatically make him one of my favorite presidents.

A president unilaterally disregarding part of the Constitution would make him your favorite president?

This particular part of the Constitution, yes. People act like the Constitution is this be all end all document, that it is perfect. When in reality, its a 250 year old document with ideas that can become outdated or just plain wrong.
---

Jackal4 posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Jackal4 posted...

Absolutely. If he could do this, it would be the most important moment of his presidency. It would automatically make him one of my favorite presidents.

A president unilaterally disregarding part of the Constitution would make him your favorite president?

This particular part of the Constitution, yes. People act like the Constitution is this be all end all document, that it is perfect. When in reality, its a 250 year old document with ideas that can become outdated or just plain wrong.

So if the next president just decides to ignore the 2nd amendment in the interest of public safety, that's totally reasonable?
---

Jackal4 posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Jackal4 posted...

Absolutely. If he could do this, it would be the most important moment of his presidency. It would automatically make him one of my favorite presidents.

A president unilaterally disregarding part of the Constitution would make him your favorite president?

This particular part of the Constitution, yes. People act like the Constitution is this be all end all document, that it is perfect. When in reality, its a 250 year old document with ideas that can become outdated or just plain wrong.

Which is why we have a way of changing the Constitution that doesn't involve one person deciding that.

But I'll keep your opinion in mind when people call for gun control after the next mass shooting we have.
---

Jackal4 posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Jackal4 posted...

Absolutely. If he could do this, it would be the most important moment of his presidency. It would automatically make him one of my favorite presidents.

A president unilaterally disregarding part of the Constitution would make him your favorite president?

This particular part of the Constitution, yes. People act like the Constitution is this be all end all document, that it is perfect. When in reality, its a 250 year old document with ideas that can become outdated or just plain wrong.

Your argument is a joke.

You people demand to have the second amendment even thought it was written for a time when weapons were muskets and things like that and the invading British armies could be faced by average joes.

Now we got ak47s, AR-15s and sniper rifles. Also the governments or invading armies the article was thinking about now have tanks, bombs, nukes, airplanes and drones, no amount of hillbillies with hand weapons stand a chance.

Oh, but dont touch the second amendment, the constitution is suddenly sacred! Lol

At least have the testicular fortitude to say youre simply a supremacist

Conservative justices are usually originalists opposed to reinterpreting laws outside of the intent of the authors. As such if they concluded the Constitution didn't endorse birthright citizenship it would go against their normal process. Now some of the conservative justices are hacks and will do that, but I don't think a majority will.
---

I am calling it, mark my words, if 45 finds himself in the losing end of the 2020 election polls he will suddenly declare that he is stripping all Muslims and Hispanics of their citizenship, unless they have been here for three generations or more.

That would rally his supremacist base like he is trying to do now AND would remove a huge chunk of the population off the voter registration rolls right before the election

Hawaiian_punch posted...

I am calling it, mark my words, if 45 finds himself in the losing end of the 2020 election polls he will suddenly declare that he is stripping all Muslims and Hispanics of their citizenship, unless they have been here for three generations or more.

He literally cannot do that.
---

ssjevot posted...

Conservative justices are usually originalists opposed to reinterpreting laws outside of the intent of the authors. As such if they concluded the Constitution didn't endorse birthright citizenship it would go against their normal process. Now some of the conservative justices are hacks and will do that, but I don't think a majority will.

This is how stupid originalism can be:

Originally the constitution only considered white people as people. Therefore the protections afforded by the constitution dont apply to black people, therefore Don Jr. black hunt season is perfectly legal, signed, Justice Kavanaugh

As terrifying as the above sounds, it could happen

@pegusus123456 posted...

Hawaiian_punch posted...

I am calling it, mark my words, if 45 finds himself in the losing end of the 2020 election polls he will suddenly declare that he is stripping all Muslims and Hispanics of their citizenship, unless they have been here for three generations or more.

He literally cannot do that.

He literally cannot end birthright citizenship by decree.

He literally cannot appoint javanka to shire house positions because of the anti nepotism law.

He literally cannot keep his hotel because of the emoluments clause.

He literally cannot use his iPhone either.

He does all of the above and more. The laws dont apply to him. He could redesign the us flag to include his face instead of each star and nothing would stop him

ssjevot posted...

Conservative justices are usually originalists opposed to reinterpreting laws outside of the intent of the authors.

Not really. The ones appointed to the SCOTUS are the ones trained by right wing think tanks, intended to support a specific GOP mission

What IS true is that those think tanks aren't really aligned with Trump's nativist bullshit.

That said, if we can change the constitution in such a fundamental way, then we can change how the EC works, we can change how the senate works. It'd be opening the door to a lot of things conservatives don't want if the winds turn against them.

Which, of course, means the GOP plan would be to change elections in such a way as to hold power forever.
---

Hawaiian_punch posted...

Jackal4 posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Jackal4 posted...

Absolutely. If he could do this, it would be the most important moment of his presidency. It would automatically make him one of my favorite presidents.

A president unilaterally disregarding part of the Constitution would make him your favorite president?

This particular part of the Constitution, yes. People act like the Constitution is this be all end all document, that it is perfect. When in reality, its a 250 year old document with ideas that can become outdated or just plain wrong.

Your argument is a joke.

You people demand to have the second amendment even thought it was written for a time when weapons were muskets and things like that and the invading British armies could be faced by average joes.

Now we got ak47s, AR-15s and sniper rifles. Also the governments or invading armies the article was thinking about now have tanks, bombs, nukes, airplanes and drones, no amount of hillbillies with hand weapons stand a chance.

Oh, but dont touch the second amendment, the constitution is suddenly sacred! Lol

At least have the testicular fortitude to say youre simply a supremacist

Despite superior training, firepower and everything else governments have, you'd be surprised what a group of stubborn, armed people can manage.

This is why riots are taken so seriously. Those average nobodies can become a big problem in a hurry if they get angry enough to not care about what happens to themselves.

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Philoktetes posted...

birthright citizenship is an outdated idea

is checks and balances and the Constitution?

Yeah, kinda

Considering the SCOTUS has come to be the replacement for the consitution.
---

SaithSayer posted...

Hawaiian_punch posted...

Jackal4 posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Jackal4 posted...

Absolutely. If he could do this, it would be the most important moment of his presidency. It would automatically make him one of my favorite presidents.

A president unilaterally disregarding part of the Constitution would make him your favorite president?

This particular part of the Constitution, yes. People act like the Constitution is this be all end all document, that it is perfect. When in reality, its a 250 year old document with ideas that can become outdated or just plain wrong.

Your argument is a joke.

You people demand to have the second amendment even thought it was written for a time when weapons were muskets and things like that and the invading British armies could be faced by average joes.

Now we got ak47s, AR-15s and sniper rifles. Also the governments or invading armies the article was thinking about now have tanks, bombs, nukes, airplanes and drones, no amount of hillbillies with hand weapons stand a chance.

Oh, but dont touch the second amendment, the constitution is suddenly sacred! Lol

At least have the testicular fortitude to say youre simply a supremacist

Despite superior training, firepower and everything else governments have, you'd be surprised what a group of stubborn, armed people can manage.

This is why riots are taken so seriously. Those average nobodies can become a big problem in a hurry if they get angry enough to not care about what happens to themselves.

My point still stands.

Our founding fathers never envisioned people walking around with a machine that can spray a room with bullets.

As someone who lives in a sanctuary city, yes. Please do this yes.

It would do a lot to curb crime and poverty.
---

MangaFan462 posted...

As someone who lives in a sanctuary city, yes. Please do this yes.

It would do a lot to curb crime and poverty.

Did you read my post at all? This would affect people on a visa too, or even permanent residents or us nationals

Hawaiian_punch posted...

@pegusus123456 posted...

Hawaiian_punch posted...

I am calling it, mark my words, if 45 finds himself in the losing end of the 2020 election polls he will suddenly declare that he is stripping all Muslims and Hispanics of their citizenship, unless they have been here for three generations or more.

He literally cannot do that.

He literally cannot end birthright citizenship by decree.

He literally cannot appoint javanka to shire house positions because of the anti nepotism law.

He literally cannot keep his hotel because of the emoluments clause.

He literally cannot use his iPhone either.

He does all of the above and more. The laws dont apply to him. He could redesign the us flag to include his face instead of each star and nothing would stop him

No, that would be on an entirely different level. Hell, this dumb executive order thing would be an entirely different level. That would put him firmly into the wannabe dictator category whereas right now he only flirts with it.
---

Darkman124 posted...

Not really. The ones appointed to the SCOTUS are the ones trained by right wing think tanks, intended to support a specific GOP mission

Did you miss the part where I said some are hacks but I doubt a majority will go against it?

Hawaiian_punch posted...

This is how stupid originalism can be:

Originally the constitution only considered white people as people. Therefore the protections afforded by the constitution dont apply to black people, therefore Don Jr. black hunt season is perfectly legal, signed, Justice Kavanaugh

As terrifying as the above sounds, it could happen

No it couldn't because of the 14th ammendment. Look man I don't like conservatives either, but I'm not going to make up some stuff that has no basis in jurisprudence.
---

Hawaiian_punch posted...

Jackal4 posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Jackal4 posted...

Absolutely. If he could do this, it would be the most important moment of his presidency. It would automatically make him one of my favorite presidents.

A president unilaterally disregarding part of the Constitution would make him your favorite president?

This particular part of the Constitution, yes. People act like the Constitution is this be all end all document, that it is perfect. When in reality, its a 250 year old document with ideas that can become outdated or just plain wrong.

Your argument is a joke.

You people demand to have the second amendment even thought it was written for a time when weapons were muskets and things like that and the invading British armies could be faced by average joes.

Now we got ak47s, AR-15s and sniper rifles. Also the governments or invading armies the article was thinking about now have tanks, bombs, nukes, airplanes and drones, no amount of hillbillies with hand weapons stand a chance.

Oh, but dont touch the second amendment, the constitution is suddenly sacred! Lol

At least have the testicular fortitude to say youre simply a supremacist

don't say h*llbillies; it's a classist slur
---

pegusus123456 posted...

Hawaiian_punch posted...

@pegusus123456 posted...

Hawaiian_punch posted...

I am calling it, mark my words, if 45 finds himself in the losing end of the 2020 election polls he will suddenly declare that he is stripping all Muslims and Hispanics of their citizenship, unless they have been here for three generations or more.

He literally cannot do that.

He literally cannot end birthright citizenship by decree.

He literally cannot appoint javanka to shire house positions because of the anti nepotism law.

He literally cannot keep his hotel because of the emoluments clause.

He literally cannot use his iPhone either.

He does all of the above and more. The laws dont apply to him. He could redesign the us flag to include his face instead of each star and nothing would stop him

No, that would be on an entirely different level. Hell, this dumb executive order thing would be an entirely different level. That would put him firmly into the wannabe dictator category whereas right now he only flirts with it.

Isnt that his M.O.? He inches to dictator status with every move

Philoktetes posted...

yeah

birthright citizenship is an outdated idea. we needed it after the civil war, but now immigrants just abuse it

Proof
---

*shakes head sadly*

Wow, America.
Look how far you've fallen.
---

ssjevot posted...

Did you miss the part where I said some are hacks but I doubt a majority will go against it?

My point was twofold:

1) The GOP appointees are basically all hacks.

2) They're hacks as of GOP agenda at their time, not hacks as of Trump's current agenda.

His current agenda is much farther to the right of the GOP agenda as a whole.
---

@Hawaiian_punch posted...

SaithSayer posted...

Hawaiian_punch posted...

Jackal4 posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Jackal4 posted...

Absolutely. If he could do this, it would be the most important moment of his presidency. It would automatically make him one of my favorite presidents.

A president unilaterally disregarding part of the Constitution would make him your favorite president?

This particular part of the Constitution, yes. People act like the Constitution is this be all end all document, that it is perfect. When in reality, its a 250 year old document with ideas that can become outdated or just plain wrong.

Your argument is a joke.

You people demand to have the second amendment even thought it was written for a time when weapons were muskets and things like that and the invading British armies could be faced by average joes.

Now we got ak47s, AR-15s and sniper rifles. Also the governments or invading armies the article was thinking about now have tanks, bombs, nukes, airplanes and drones, no amount of hillbillies with hand weapons stand a chance.

Oh, but dont touch the second amendment, the constitution is suddenly sacred! Lol

At least have the testicular fortitude to say youre simply a supremacist

Despite superior training, firepower and everything else governments have, you'd be surprised what a group of stubborn, armed people can manage.

This is why riots are taken so seriously. Those average nobodies can become a big problem in a hurry if they get angry enough to not care about what happens to themselves.

My point still stands.

Our founding fathers never envisioned people walking around with a machine that can spray a room with bullets.

So civilians can buy machine guns now? Why do people say stupid shit like this?
---

Republicans yell about their rights and protecting the constitution when it comes to gun laws but when it comes to protecting citizenship? "Yea I don't like that one. Let's override it!"

Fuck outta here!
---

Blatantly unconstitutional. Blatantly racist. Blatantly dictatorial.
---

Birthright citizenship shouldn't exist anywhere. Only way you should have birthright citizenship to any country is if one of your parents is a citizen of that country. Most countries don't allow you to be a citizen simply because you were born there.

I live in China (Canadian, wife is Thai). If I had another child while living here do you think they'll be able to get Chinese citizenship? Not a fucking chance. Same goes for most places in the world.
---

But why aren't you okay with it?
---

So many scummy ethno nationalists ITT
---

Solid Sonic posted...

But why aren't you okay with it?

And here is the real question
---

Ray_Dorset posted...

Philoktetes posted...

yeah

birthright citizenship is an outdated idea. we needed it after the civil war, but now immigrants just abuse it

Proof

Anchor babies. Illegals and even tourists will try to have a child in the US to give them a way to stay there as well.
---

MuayThai85 posted...

Ray_Dorset posted...

Philoktetes posted...

yeah

birthright citizenship is an outdated idea. we needed it after the civil war, but now immigrants just abuse it

Proof

Anchor babies. Illegals and even tourists will try to have a child in the US to give them a way to stay there as well.

Proof as in actual numbers of how much this happens
---

I'm not saying it's wrong to be opposed to this, I just want to know what is your core reasoning for opposing it.
---

MuayThai85 posted...

Birthright citizenship shouldn't exist anywhere. Only way you should have birthright citizenship to any country is if one of your parents is a citizen of that country. Most countries don't allow you to be a citizen simply because you were born there.

I live in China (Canadian, wife is Thai). If I had another child while living here do you think they'll be able to get Chinese citizenship? Not a fucking chance. Same goes for most places in the world.

Here's the thing.

That doesn't fucking matter in this situation, not even a little bit. Every single person in the world should be against Trump even thinking he can do this regardless of their opinion on birthright citizenship. The most cross-eyed, slack-jawed, cross-burning racist should be against this. Why? Because it's Trump believing that he can unilaterally bypass the Constitution with no input from the other branches of government.
---

Hawaiian_punch posted...

Trump's vow to end the right to citizenship for the children of non-citizens

Hahaha and you thought he was going only for illegals?

You could be a PERMANENT RESIDENT and if your offspring is born here he wont have the citizenship. Imagine that.

Imagine youre a rocket scientist or the guy whos researching to cure cancer but youre here on a visa and spend 20 years here and your offspring is born here, when your research is done your 20 yr old will have to go to some country he never knew, which speaks a language he may not know, because after 20 years he/she is not a citizen of the only country he/she knows!

If theyre here for 20 years and still hasnt done the effort to become a citizen, well thats too bad then
---

MuayThai85 posted...

Birthright citizenship shouldn't exist anywhere. Only way you should have birthright citizenship to any country is if one of your parents is a citizen of that country. Most countries don't allow you to be a citizen simply because you were born there.

I live in China (Canadian, wife is Thai). If I had another child while living here do you think they'll be able to get Chinese citizenship? Not a fucking chance. Same goes for most places in the world.

Yeah because we should clearly be trying to emulate 3rd world countries with dubious human rights pasts. Should we execute inmates and charge their families for the bullet too? Should we institute a one child policy for several decades? Lets start using tiger penis as medicine too!

Funny how a guy who moved out of Canada because he has NO SKILLS TO MAKE A LIVING and married a Thai woman because they love westerners is lecturing us about immigration law, could tour average Chinese or Thai person with zero skills move to America to teach Chinese language, with no qualification? Huh?

MuayThai85 posted...

Ray_Dorset posted...

Philoktetes posted...

yeah

birthright citizenship is an outdated idea. we needed it after the civil war, but now immigrants just abuse it

Proof

Anchor babies. Illegals and even tourists will try to have a child in the US to give them a way to stay there as well

You do know your wife is Thai, right? She isnt even waifu material for the Alt right like the Japanese and Korean girls. 45 and his Alt right people dont look kindly upon her kind, or upon your marriage. Youre embracing those goons, good going man