Current Events > Don't vote Democrat, they're a bunch of crooks. They did Bernie dirty

(+) Yeah! (+)

EnragedSlith posted...

action52 posted...

People keep bringing in all these times Sanders won in a few states like that proves anything, even though he was never even close to winning overall.

The real reason that Hillary won is very simple. It's because most people don't vote in the primaries. The people who do are mostly old people. And they facor conservative, "safe" candidates that won't rock the boat. The young people who love Bernie don't vote, and while they may have come out in much bigger numbers than ever before, it still wasn't enough to overcome the stodgy old establishment types that have always dominated the primaries.

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that more than half the people who complain about the primaries being "rigged" against Bernie didn't even vote for him.

She also won because she played ball with her party, which is how politics are run. Ive never had a problem with this.

If you want to admit being a yellow dog democrat, go ahead and just say that you'll always vote democrat. That's fine... except not really, as it blinds you to utter nonsense like this. A corporate suck up sucked up to other corporate suck ups and flat out disavowed the will of the voters in a state in a contest they were already going to win because....?

Seriously, say that the Dems are the lesser of the two evils if you want, but take this apologetic nonsense glossing over their bad shit out of here.

Tmaster148 posted...

Don't pretend this isn't anything more than trying to get the democrats to lose, because you would much rather have republicans in charge.

Spot the poster that didn't read the entire topic.

Hairistotle posted...

Apotheosis_VI posted...

Ray_Dorset posted...

The Democrat party fucked over Bernie, the Republican party fucked over America. One was greasy, the other one is downright fucking despicable.

Aaaaaand...

And I'm not telling you to vote GOP either.

"B-b-but Republicans" isn't an argument when I wasn't telling you to vote Republican.

he's not saying "but republicans" hes saying why hes gonna vote democrat

He's saying he's voting for the supposed lesser of two evils, I'm saying they're both evil.

Apotheosis_VI posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

Don't pretend this isn't anything more than trying to get the democrats to lose, because you would much rather have republicans in charge.

Spot the poster that didn't read the topic.

I read the topic, you are just too obvious about your intentions.
---

I made a new topic further articulating my point. There, equal time, happy?

Apotheosis_VI posted...

Hairistotle posted...

Apotheosis_VI posted...

Ray_Dorset posted...

The Democrat party fucked over Bernie, the Republican party fucked over America. One was greasy, the other one is downright fucking despicable.

Aaaaaand...

And I'm not telling you to vote GOP either.

"B-b-but Republicans" isn't an argument when I wasn't telling you to vote Republican.

he's not saying "but republicans" hes saying why hes gonna vote democrat

He's saying he's voting for the supposed lesser of two evils, I'm saying they're both evil.

Equating the democrat party to the GOP is bullshit. I know it, you know it, we all know it, and:

Tmaster148 posted...

Don't pretend this isn't anything more than trying to get the democrats to lose, because you would much rather have republicans in charge.

---

The link in OP shows delegate count 18-11. Link to 18-19?

Wasssup Now posted...

The link in OP shows delegate count 18-11. Link to 18-19?

Same link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Democratic_primary,_2016

Hillary Clinton 86,914 35.84% 11 8 19
Bernie Sanders 124,700 51.41% 18 18

The last number being the final delegate count after superdelegates stole that state's results and warped it from a Sanders landslide into a narrow Clinton victory.

Conflict posted...

So because they had a fallout with the preferred candidate two years ago I should just let the Republicans continue to completely ruin this country

Nah I don't think so. Voting straight D tomorrow, dgaf.

When you're still fucked by both parties, don't come crying to me.

Apotheosis_VI posted...

Wasssup Now posted...

The link in OP shows delegate count 18-11. Link to 18-19?

Same link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Democratic_primary,_2016

Hillary Clinton 86,914 35.84% 11 8 19
Bernie Sanders 124,700 51.41% 18 18

The last number being the final delegate count after superdelegates stole that state's results and warped it from a Sanders landslide into a narrow Clinton victory.

Ok. Ouch. That's dirty. Unpledged. Can somebody explain unpledged electoral votes to me.... this can't be good

Uh no vote dem this time around so there's a better chance to get Trump out of office.
---

Wasssup Now posted...

Apotheosis_VI posted...

Wasssup Now posted...

The link in OP shows delegate count 18-11. Link to 18-19?

Same link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Democratic_primary,_2016

Hillary Clinton 86,914 35.84% 11 8 19
Bernie Sanders 124,700 51.41% 18 18

The last number being the final delegate count after superdelegates stole that state's results and warped it from a Sanders landslide into a narrow Clinton victory.

Ok. Ouch. That's dirty. Unpledged. Can somebody explain unpledged electoral votes to me.... this can't be good

Democrats had a system of superdelegates in place whereby party leaders in the state had as much says as elected delegates from the primary, to the point where their toe on the scale could shift things entirely from one candidate to another, as was the case in West Virginia in 2016, and was almost the case in 2008 nationally until they realized that Clinton was a sinking ship and they finally abandoned her and joined Obama.

a nightmarish skinless skeleton eternally shrieking: How the f*** can you trust a party that does s*** like this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Democratic_primary,_2016

Hillary lost every f***ing county in West Virginia. Lost the popular vote in a goddamn landslide! Sanders was the clear cut winner of Democratic voters there in 2016.

And somehow she won the delegate count 19-18? If that's not proof that they're all crooks that run that party, I don't know what else to tell you.

Just flat out pissed off a whole lot of family that still lives there and they went from solid Dems to lean Reps or just not caring anymore. Good job, crooks. Enjoy that blue wave that picks up a handful seats or so tomorrow and wonder why you fell short again.

And I'm not telling you to vote GOP either. Libertarians and Greens still exist, and the Libertarians sure as s*** have my vote now.
---

Uh.... okay?

How is it stealing if superdelegates were part of the partys rules? Theyve been around for decades. Its been part of the partys voting process.

Read the terms of service pinned on the donkeys ass.

If you ran the club or helped run fundraisers for it like its your job then you got to be a delegate and vote for whoever you wanted. It was privilege granted for promoting the club.
---

Like, I believe the super delegate system was a bit fucking dirty and it likely held Bernie back early on in the stage, but that wasn't what ultimately won her the primary. Did it help? Of course. But it was more her ability to resonate in voters in the South, despite these states really not mattering to Democrats in the general, plus the fact that she had been a major name in politics for almost 30 years prior where Sanders was a relative unknown, that carried her over the line. The difference between 08 and 16 was Obama WAS able to turn out those voters and a lot of the states that she preformed better in early was where Bernie did better. But Obama was able to preform well enough in those early primaries that he was able to flip the script.

Anyway all of this is irrelevant to the 2018 midterms. The DNC saw a total upheaval and they revamped their system of super delegates. There's also an abundance of House races that have candidates that had nothing to do with the 2016 election, not to mention the House leadership didn't have anything to do in 2016, so saying completely bitter at them makes no sense to me. It may for you, and that's fine. But I'm not going to switch my political belief system and vote Libertarian, which has concepts and ideas I completely disagree with on every level(as does Bernie but I digress), or the Greens, just because I'm pissed off about a race 2 years ago. And I even voted for Bernie in the primaries.
---

iPhone_7 posted...

How is it stealing if superdelegates were part of the partys rules? Theyve been around for decades. Its been part of the partys voting process.

Read the terms of service pinned on the donkeys ass.

If you ran the club or helped run fundraisers for it like its your job then you got to be a delegate and vote for whoever you wanted. It was privilege granted for promoting the club.

Institutionalized corruption is still corruption.

The Great Muta 22 posted...

Like, I believe the super delegate system was a bit fucking dirty and it likely held Bernie back early on in the stage, but that wasn't what ultimately won her the primary. Did it help? Of course. But it was more her ability to resonate in voters in the South, despite these states really not mattering to Democrats in the general, plus the fact that she had been a major name in politics for almost 30 years prior where Sanders was a relative unknown, that carried her over the line. The difference between 08 and 16 was Obama WAS able to turn out those voters and a lot of the states that she preformed better in early was where Bernie did better. But Obama was able to preform well enough in those early primaries that he was able to flip the script.

Anyway all of this is irrelevant to the 2018 midterms. The DNC saw a total upheaval and they revamped their system of super delegates. There's also an abundance of House races that have candidates that had nothing to do with the 2016 election, not to mention the House leadership didn't have anything to do in 2016, so saying completely bitter at them makes no sense to me. It may for you, and that's fine. But I'm not going to switch my political belief system and vote Libertarian, which has concepts and ideas I completely disagree with on every level(as does Bernie but I digress), or the Greens, just because I'm pissed off about a race 2 years ago. And I even voted for Bernie in the primaries.

That's nice and all, but the top tier Democrats are still in place in the house and senate aside from that asshat that the Cortez lady primaried in NYC. Schumer and Durbin would run the Senate, Pelosi and Hoyer would run the House, and their bullshit cozying up to corporate money, bending over backwards for corrupt practices, and silencing individuals promoting individualistic responsibility would still be front and center.

In other words, we'd still be fucked, just in a different way, if they wont either or both of the houses.

Apotheosis_VI posted...

iPhone_7 posted...

How is it stealing if superdelegates were part of the partys rules? Theyve been around for decades. Its been part of the partys voting process.

Read the terms of service pinned on the donkeys ass.

If you ran the club or helped run fundraisers for it like its your job then you got to be a delegate and vote for whoever you wanted. It was privilege granted for promoting the club.

Institutionalized corruption is still corruption.

How is that in itself corruption? If youre running the club & funding it then you get to have a vote.

Corruption would be how Hillarys team was secretly given control of the party's finances, strategy, & hiring decisions in exchange for paying off the massive debt Obama had left it in.
---

Apotheosis_VI posted...

That's nice and all, but the top tier Democrats are still in place in the house and senate aside from that asshat that the Cortez lady primaried in NYC. Schumer and Durbin would run the Senate, Pelosi and Hoyer would run the House, and their bullshit cozying up to corporate money, bending over backwards for corrupt practices, and silencing individuals promoting individualistic responsibility would still be front and center.

There's not even a guarantee that Pelosi will be speaker after this midterm and plenty of those running, including the one in my district, has guaranteed he will not vote for her as Speaker if they are to take the House. And considering there's no one else on the ballot and the alternative is a lady who claimed all mass shooters are Democrats and refuses to hold town halls due to "paid out of town protesters", I'm voting for the Democrat.

And if you're willing to jump to being a Libertarian after allegedly being a Bernie supporter, I have to wonder how much actual policy mattered to you. I mean, hey, if you just wanted an outsider to come in and wreck the whole system and that's why you backed Bernie that's perfectly fine and your right, but the reality is his platform and the Libertarian platform are no where near the same thing. Not quite as bad as the Bernie to Trump guys, but it's still a pretty drastic difference.
---

iPhone_7 posted...

Apotheosis_VI posted...

iPhone_7 posted...

How is it stealing if superdelegates were part of the partys rules? Theyve been around for decades. Its been part of the partys voting process.

Read the terms of service pinned on the donkeys ass.

If you ran the club or helped run fundraisers for it like its your job then you got to be a delegate and vote for whoever you wanted. It was privilege granted for promoting the club.

Institutionalized corruption is still corruption.

How is that in itself corruption? If youre running the club & funding it then you get to have a vote.

Corruption would be how Hillarys team was secretly given control of the party's finances, strategy, & hiring decisions in exchange for paying off the massive debt Obama had left it in.

At the core, the superdelegate system was blatant corruption as it essentially kept the power of the masses in check and instead kept it with a very select elite interested in protecting the status quo and note rocking the boat. As already stated, this system almost kept Obama out in 2008 until the party leaders backed off and realized that Hillary was a sinking ship, and only once the superdelegates bolted did Obama secure their nomination, this in spite of him winning the primaries well before that to otherwise clinch.

And more than one example of corruption exist, me highlighting/harping on one doesn't disregard the others like you mentioned.

The Great Muta 22 posted...

Apotheosis_VI posted...

That's nice and all, but the top tier Democrats are still in place in the house and senate aside from that asshat that the Cortez lady primaried in NYC. Schumer and Durbin would run the Senate, Pelosi and Hoyer would run the House, and their bullshit cozying up to corporate money, bending over backwards for corrupt practices, and silencing individuals promoting individualistic responsibility would still be front and center.

There's not even a guarantee that Pelosi will be speaker after this midterm and plenty of those running, including the one in my district, has guaranteed he will not vote for her as Speaker if they are to take the House. And considering there's no one else on the ballot and the alternative is a lady who claimed all mass shooters are Democrats and refuses to hold town halls due to "paid out of town protesters", I'm voting for the Democrat.

And if you're willing to jump to being a Libertarian after allegedly being a Bernie supporter, I have to wonder how much actual policy mattered to you. I mean, hey, if you just wanted an outsider to come in and wreck the whole system and that's why you backed Bernie that's perfectly fine and your right, but the reality is his platform and the Libertarian platform are no where near the same thing. Not quite as bad as the Bernie to Trump guys, but it's still a pretty drastic difference.

I'll believe that Pelosi won't be the speaker if the Dems win when I see it, and even if she isn't I don't have high expectations that the next wouldn't be cut in her mold as well. Same for the Senate and if they went with someone other than Schumer and Durbin, who are even worse than her.

As for my past electoral standings, I have been a switch voter based on who I thought was best at a given time, having voted for both Democrats and Republicans in the past and have also previously voted for candidates that I believed would be solid shakers for a given party's status quo. I disagreed with Sanders on a lot of issues, but thought he was solid at the very least in trying to actual fix fundamental core issues that the GOP ignored and other Dems glossed over after only paying lip service to them. Obama sucked up to Wall Street for eight years, Clinton had been doing so for even longer, and the entire Dem leadership camp proved that they're just the other side of the same coin as the GOP when it comes to not actually giving a fuck about the masses beyond a token thing here and there, so that left the Libertarian party as essentially the obvious alternative promoting individualistic responses to our country's issues rather than the collectivist ones that Sanders promoted.

But as others have said, you gotta play ball in politics with the Dems, so that means debasing oneself with corporate money and using government overreach on random social justice tokens to distract from the core problems afflicting us just as the GOP tosses out bullshit talking points and us versus them rhetoric. Meanwhile, both laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh as they line their pockets with taxpayer money regardless of who is in power.

The West Virginia primary was reported as a win for Bernie.

All of the superdelegates, including the ones youre complaining about voted at the convention in October, 3 months after Bernie had already dropped out of the race.

So your family got pissed off when they learned about how the superdelegates in your state voted?

Hillary surpassed the number of delegates needed for the nomination without superdelegates.
---

This is why I went independent
---

This is a talking point that comes straight out of the troll factories in Russia.
---

I wasn't aware Bernie was running for any offices in Indiana
---

Apotheosis_VI posted...

EnragedSlith posted...

action52 posted...

People keep bringing in all these times Sanders won in a few states like that proves anything, even though he was never even close to winning overall.

The real reason that Hillary won is very simple. It's because most people don't vote in the primaries. The people who do are mostly old people. And they facor conservative, "safe" candidates that won't rock the boat. The young people who love Bernie don't vote, and while they may have come out in much bigger numbers than ever before, it still wasn't enough to overcome the stodgy old establishment types that have always dominated the primaries.

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that more than half the people who complain about the primaries being "rigged" against Bernie didn't even vote for him.

She also won because she played ball with her party, which is how politics are run. Ive never had a problem with this.

If you want to admit being a yellow dog democrat, go ahead and just say that you'll always vote democrat. That's fine... except not really, as it blinds you to utter nonsense like this. A corporate suck up sucked up to other corporate suck ups and flat out disavowed the will of the voters in a state in a contest they were already going to win because....?

Seriously, say that the Dems are the lesser of the two evils if you want, but take this apologetic nonsense glossing over their bad shit out of here.

Thats a really stupid outlook, and I know exactly what youre trying to do. It was just never important to me. The real evil of the DNC was the hubris they went into the general election with, thinking they were above all the voters they ostracized and refusing to take a candidate like Trump seriously. Bernie is a non-issue.
---

UnholyMudcrab posted...

This is a talking point that comes straight out of the troll factories in Russia.

lol you've been listening too to much alex jones if you really think there are Russian trolls logged into fake accounts all over the web pushing some sort of narrative
---

Roxborough4Ever posted...

lol you've been listening too to much alex jones if you really think there are Russian trolls logged into fake accounts all over the web pushing some sort of narrative

Actually that's one conspiracy that Alex Jones doesn't seem interested in

Actually anything involving Trump or the GOP doesn't seem to interest the conspiracy community.

That's quite odd now that I think of it. Hmmm....
---

The GOP is learning they don't have to hide the fact that they're regressive fascists anymore