Board 8 > Save My Favorite Final Fantasy Characters XX: Day 89 (RULE CHANGE) [smfffc]

(+) Yeah! (+)

soooo anyways while i was waiting for today's smfffc rush, Ctrl+R-ing the topic I looked up and there was a girl staring at me who went on to mouthing words I couldn't comprehend before she came over to tell me that oh my god i look like kurt cobain

(she also totally caught a glimpse of my computer screen which just had smfffc up with people trying to save squall)
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lmao

Can't wait for Edea savers to screw over like 6 characters on the way to the finals while FBike continues to shout "SHE'S DOOMED" at the end of each round.
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i think what's been made clear is that saying a character is doomed ensures that they get through to the next round

Vanille is so doomed

Time to tell Leon what happened
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th3l3fty posted...

If a post of yours causes an accidental lawyering you will be banned for one round for the first offense, with an increase of one round for each subsequent offense.

I admit that my duplicate save was accidental.

My admittedly-flimsy argument is that if my "Rikku I guess" is a save, then it's not a lawyering because I (eventually) made a valid save during that hour. This is no different than if someone saves early during rush and corrects.
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I like how they just happened to kill 2 of the strongest characters in the contest with lawyerings and support the same main too.

Technically I think Doomtrain rode the whole "we're doomed" train (ha get it) and ended up getting 3rd!
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how many people said that about Kain last time as well and that was with Janus owing NRs nearly every round

Well I'm relieved Rikku survived as crazy as the method was.

Feeling really bad about my chances of not losing one of my top people (Ramza or Rikku) next round though.

Maybe Edea will finally actually be doomed.
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Damn, this sucks. Apologies to Squall supporters. Rikku has never, so far as I can recall, benefitted from a lawyering before, and Im not happy to see it happen.

Ive been thinking for a while now that Rikku has a real chance to win this year, but thats not true anymore, shes probably gonna go out in the next day or so. But thanks to all her savers this year, especially ProfDeadpool. Not since partystar many years ago has she had a supporter as dedicated as you. Maybe next year will be her year.
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swordz9 posted...

I like how they just happened to kill 2 of the strongest characters in the contest with lawyerings and support the same main too.

Might as well just blatantly abuse the rules at this point. Not enough people in the contest actually care about abuse so just have fun with it.
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I'm not exactly sure what you want me to do

the ban numbers can be revisited later, but I'm not about to change them mid-contest over a few things that can't be definitively proven as malicious
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also

swordz9 posted...

I like how they just happened to kill 2 of the strongest characters in the contest with lawyerings and support the same main too.

in what world was Squall one of the strongest

that train was about to get derailed one way or the other
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Yea when was Squall strong in this
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also noticed fbike changed his sig to reference the incident which seems to me like even if he really didn't intentionally cause it, he has no problem taking credit for it or at least rubbing it in whereas everyone else involved showed some kind of remorse.

I'm not saying you should do anything lefty.

I'm just saying for a community as obsessive as the SMFFFC one the fact that no one really cares as long as their character doesn't get hosed is pretty pitiful. Hell even when their character gets hosed half of em don't care! Where's the passion, man?
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Let's play a game. Anyone who continues to trade with those two is going on a list with the two of them. Let's see who enjoys being on that list this time next year.

Basically if you cant have empathy for swordz at least realize that your "too bad so sad" will have consequences. Your ill deeds will not be cleansed.

Ramza would be proud.
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Bwburke did nothing intentionally wrong. What's there to get bent out of shape about? My guy died cause we weren't strong enough. At least this round was posted at a reasonable time, I had my impassioned rant when Sephiroth went out at 5am.

Squall has been strong the last several years even if hes never looked strong enough to win the whole thing easily. I mean he was #1 in those NEW stats that supposedly dont exist now. Really the only super strong character left is Vivi now as far as stats go I think

STElNER posted...

Bwburke did nothing intentionally wrong

Well that's the story, at least. It's interesting that the character that a converted to full time Edea supporter carried here reaped the benefits and that it came so soon after blatant malicious intent was met with no consequence but you know what do I know.
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swordz9 posted...

Squall has been strong the last several years even if hes never looked strong enough to win the whole thing easily. I mean he was #1 in those NEW stats that supposedly dont exist now. Really the only super strong character left is Vivi now as far as stats go I think

He was DEFINITELY strong enough last year.

It just happened to coincide with a year Laguna was too...
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To be honest I usually forget who I saved too
When you don't give a shit about the characters you saved because they are from trades..well...you tend to forget
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Lopen, if you have proof Id be happy to hear it.

But you CANT change the rules of something mid contest. That wouldnt be allowed in any real competition on Earth.

Want to make it 5 rounds or so next year, great, but you cant change these ones.
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swordz9 posted...

Squall has been strong the last several years even if hes never looked strong enough to win the whole thing easily. I mean he was #1 in those NEW stats that supposedly dont exist now. Really the only super strong character left is Vivi now as far as stats go I think

Squall's support this year was mostly pj, with Steiner assisting in the later rounds

he lived (and eventually died) on the support he was able to draw from people whose round attendance was more than a bit inconsistent
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STElNER posted...

Bwburke did nothing intentionally wrong. What's there to get bent out of shape about?

You have two bare minimum requirements to keep track of when participating in this: save times, and who you saved.

Sure it was a pure accident but it materially affected the outcome of the round. Intention has no bearing in like, manslaughter cases. Still needs punishment so people take responsibility for their actions... in an online save contest with nothing of value on the line.

at what point was it implied that burke wasn't getting punished?
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Didnt mean to imply that. I meant, one round wouldn't be enough, but understand that rules are rules as presently set.

The punishments must be more severe (....read that in the Bane voice)

Lopen posted...

STElNER posted...

Bwburke did nothing intentionally wrong

Well that's the story, at least. It's interesting that the character that a converted to full time Edea supporter carried here reaped the benefits and that it came so soon after blatant malicious intent was met with no consequence but you know what do I know.

I'm not gonna argue this time about whether this was malicious or not, but I have to say your conspiracy theory here doesn't even make sense. If the end goal was to help Rikku for prof, then... burke could've just saved Rikku upfront and not gotten himself banned for a round (or more).
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th3l3fty posted...

at what point was it implied that burke wasn't getting punished?

You haven't directly stated the length of my ban. Hence the confusion.
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You never know, even if you admit breaking the rules on purpose you might just get a stern warning not to do it again.
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mnkboy907 posted...

Lopen posted...

STElNER posted...

Bwburke did nothing intentionally wrong

Well that's the story, at least. It's interesting that the character that a converted to full time Edea supporter carried here reaped the benefits and that it came so soon after blatant malicious intent was met with no consequence but you know what do I know.

I'm not gonna argue this time about whether this was malicious or not, but I have to say your conspiracy theory here doesn't even make sense. If the end goal was to help Rikku for prof, then... burke could've just saved Rikku upfront and not gotten himself banned for a round (or more).

Yeah.

And don't bring up "well the NR for Squall" cause he ain't getting it when his save didn't count.

It also runs the risk of there just being a Squall oversave.

You're going way into insane levels of conspiracy theory to think this was somehow meant to reward Rikku.
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bwburke94 posted...

th3l3fty posted...

at what point was it implied that burke wasn't getting punished?

You haven't directly stated the length of my ban. Hence the confusion.

the rule seems pretty cut-and-dry to me - 1 round for first offense
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MartinFF7 posted...

STElNER posted...

Bwburke did nothing intentionally wrong. What's there to get bent out of shape about?

You have two bare minimum requirements to keep track of when participating in this: save times, and who you saved.

Sure it was a pure accident but it materially affected the outcome of the round. Intention has no bearing in like, manslaughter cases. Still needs punishment so people take responsibility for their actions... in an online save contest with nothing of value on the line.

note that this is also saying Eddv should still be banned

MartinFF7 posted...

in an online save contest with nothing of value on the line.

Finally someone gets it.
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Shaduln posted...

MartinFF7 posted...

in an online save contest with nothing of value on the line.

Finally someone gets it.

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ckoud
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safe
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lawyer
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when are we gonna get the return of stephilus huh, riddle me that
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What in the world happened here.
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Yikes.
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i cant i dont want them to rule the community against me
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profDEADPOOL posted...

Shaduln posted...

MartinFF7 posted...

in an online save contest with nothing of value on the line.

Finally someone gets it.

It's not serious but people still get invested in it. I got way too invested... and this is my first year of active participation, pushing someone that had zero chance of winning. You can deal with a loss when it's legitimate, but as we get closer to the end, every round is a razor's edge, increasing the chance of accidents (or the incentive to pull shenanigans).

gmun-chama posted...

note that this is also saying Eddv should still be banned

uh, yeah.

Any punishment system should increase the closer we get to the end, 1 round just isn't enough. Imagine something like:

-First offence is a round-ban that's half the number of saves required to be safe that day, rounded up. So today would be 6 rounds;
-Second offence is fully the number of saves required to be safe that day, and if there's still rounds left at the end of the contest it'd carry over to the start of next year's edition;
-Third offence is permanent contest ban.

And offences would be retained in memory for future SMFFFCs. Probably too draconian but hey: we live in a society.

eddv would still be banned - and fbike would've caught some rounds too.

You know, I have a weird feeling about siblings participating in contests. I know this board has some, well known and long-time members like cyan and crazyisgood for example. But when it comes to SMFFFC I can't help but think of a dark, dark history with it.
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I actually agree the punishment should be raised, just making sure you're aware of Eddv getting caught in it too since some feel he suffered enough since it was one of his favs lost

Most lawyerings actually do harm the person doing the early save unless it's malicious (Cid P), and I think that's why first offense is so light..

but yeah I agree 1 round is like nothing

I just want to throw in my thing on this.

While if we changed it I'd be okay if everyone said to.... we totally shouldn't.

It's hard to reconcile now since we've had 3 in the last 117 rounds, but before mine last year apparently it was since 2013 according to someone reading the wiki after Light's L this year.

That's 4 years. Over 400 rounds. These aren't common, and because they are so uncommon, it's clearly usually not being used as a weapon. When it happens it's usually a total accident. I killed my second main last year, I assure you that wasn't on purpose. Why would it be. And the absolute INSANITY of that being a 5 round ban is just crazy. We would have a different defending Champion right now if that were true.

We are human, we make mistakes, especially at the end when stress is running high and time is running out. We have so many other things going on in our life that numbers can get confused, and it's really easy to forget who you've already saved if it's not one of your mains or if you are on trades or NR's. I again will go along with what the group decides, but what the group decides should be that it's about right now.

One thing I would suggest is second offense (that contest) becomes a hammering. So if you have one already you need to be extra careful cause second offense is 4 or 5 rounds. That seems fair, while still allowing people to be human on the first one. Lifetime ban after 3 EVER COMBINED is just.... I can't even put into words.

Yeah that was a theoretical example and the alternative is just to keep escalating, sure; but like you said, it's so rare, that's what I was thinking. So many accidents when it never happens...

It's also my pessimistic/worst-case-scenario way of looking at things, yeah, so easy to say: "save" a character in a rush when not being time-eligible, other people see I did it and think the character's safe when I'm setting up a lawyering and can claim an innocent accident of timing later - ripe for malicious actions. Even if 99% of the time it's a legitimate accident, I'm over-fixing on something like that, which we've already see the potential for.

gmun-chama posted...

I actually agree the punishment should be raised, just making sure you're aware of Eddv getting caught in it too since some feel he suffered enough since it was one of his favs lost

Most lawyerings actually do harm the person doing the early save unless it's malicious (Cid P), and I think that's why first offense is so light..

but yeah I agree 1 round is like nothing

It's a fair point, outcome could be a mitigating factor. But a lot more people than just eddv suffered too... gotta get that pound of flesh!

I would just like to point out that one of my high school friends had two kids with two different women roughly 1 week apart

So it's not completely unfathomable to have half-brothers born on the same day!
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Lopen posted...

STElNER posted...

Bwburke did nothing intentionally wrong

Well that's the story, at least. It's interesting that the character that a converted to full time Edea supporter carried here reaped the benefits and that it came so soon after blatant malicious intent was met with no consequence but you know what do I know.

I am not certain what Edea has to do with it?

She was safe and if bwburke is less stupid and say points out that his squall save is invalid WITHOUT immediately hammering the round then he doesnt get lawyered.

The claimed NR only partially mitigates his ban instead materially hurting him worse than if he had done nothing at all.
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It's extra frustrating because Squall would've died anyways without the NR fishing falsely hooking burke in the first place. So Squall normally *should have died* but the way things rolled out was just an extra layer of drama unnecessarily.
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