Current Events > 1 out of 3 Americans are 1 Paycheck away from being Homeless.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://medium.com/@baxleyjames/the-homeless-are-lazy-bums-so-i-used-to-think-f911dedc4cc5

According to personal finance website Bankrate.com, approximately 62% of Americans have no emergency savings for things such as a $1,000 emergency room visit or a $500 car repair. Also, a full one third of Americans were living paycheck to paycheck, and if they lost their job, they would not be able to make their next rent or mortgage payment. When I worked at Wal-Mart, one of the employee was homeless and living out of her car. Thats right, even those who work for the worlds largest employee, besides the US government dont make enough to live on. They are homeless because wages are low and housing prices are forever rising. This is a deadly combination. Working a low wage job just doesnt cut it anymore; a person needs two jobs and a roommate to live decently. Many college students are homeless. They are using the school as a place to sleep and using the gym to shower and shave, thats what I did when I was homeless.
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i can never tell whether this data is misusing the "I don't have a savings account" answer (because savings accounts pay shit interest, I don't even have one. i leave the ~20k emergency fund I have in a checking acct, because the difference is trivial)

because two thirds not having an extra $1000 but only one third living paycheck to paycheck does not make logical sense

if you dont have an extra $1000 you are living paycheck to paycheck yourself
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Gotta keep up with that pesky Jones family

This is economic socialism. Your paycheck is spent, before you receive it, on rent, medical insurance*, and income taxes. People might have small entertainment funds, but the idea of saving a few hundred thousand to retire or buy a house is out of the question.

This is why capitalism is, always was, and always will be the best structure for our country.
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southcoast09 posted...

This is economic socialism. Your paycheck is spent, before you receive it, on rent, medical insurance*, and income taxes. People might have small entertainment funds, but the idea of saving a few hundred thousand to retire or buy a house is out of the question.

This is why capitalism is, always was, and always will be the best structure for our country.

Low effort trolling

People with median income or higher are also not saving much. It's not because they can't. It's because they squander everything they earn since no one remembers the lessons from the great recession. Americans have a severe spending and easy-debt problem.

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc
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Romulox28 posted...

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc

All of these are choices people make. Poor choices are offered because people accept them. You can fault the lenders to some degree but at the end of the day it's the consumers responsibility to ensure they are buying a good product, especially when that purchase is in the 5 digits and beyond.

Romulox28 posted...

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc

The problem is that if you don't lend to someone with a low income, you then get accused of not lending to the poor. 6+ year car loans exist to facilitate lending to people who don't have money. Although ideally we'd have people buy less car, with cash, rather than finance shit.

No one is forced to take out a college loan for a useless degree or a shitty mortgage when you can instead rent or buy less house. We buy much larger houses on average than we did even 50 years ago.

t_paynes_ghost posted...

Romulox28 posted...

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc

All of these are choices people make. Poor choices are offered because people accept them. You can fault the lenders to some degree but at the end of the day it's the consumers responsibility to ensure they are buying a good product, especially when that purchase is in the 5 digits and beyond.

Right, but the leftists on CE are distinctly not interested in any conversations on personal responsibility.

clearaflagrantj posted...

Low effort trolling

you're being generous giving him any effort at all.
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CornBarn posted...

t_paynes_ghost posted...

Romulox28 posted...

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc

All of these are choices people make. Poor choices are offered because people accept them. You can fault the lenders to some degree but at the end of the day it's the consumers responsibility to ensure they are buying a good product, especially when that purchase is in the 5 digits and beyond.

Right, but the leftists on CE are distinctly not interested in any conversations on personal responsibility.

Let's please keep the politics out of the conversation.

t_paynes_ghost posted...

CornBarn posted...

t_paynes_ghost posted...

Romulox28 posted...

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc

All of these are choices people make. Poor choices are offered because people accept them. You can fault the lenders to some degree but at the end of the day it's the consumers responsibility to ensure they are buying a good product, especially when that purchase is in the 5 digits and beyond.

Right, but the leftists on CE are distinctly not interested in any conversations on personal responsibility.

Let's please keep the politics out of the conversation.

Ultimately it is impossible to divorce someone's views on fiscal responsibility from their broader political views.

CornBarn posted...

Romulox28 posted...

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc

The problem is that if you don't lend to someone with a low income, you then get accused of not lending to the poor. 6+ year car loans exist to facilitate lending to people who don't have money. Although ideally we'd have people buy less car, with cash, rather than finance shit.

No one is forced to take out a college loan for a useless degree or a shitty mortgage when you can instead rent or buy less house. We buy much larger houses on average than we did even 50 years ago.

problem with mortgages and 6 year car loans is no one can predict what will happen in that entire time that someone may end up losing a job or face some sort of crisis. that's how they fall behind.
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kingdrake2 posted...

CornBarn posted...

Romulox28 posted...

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc

The problem is that if you don't lend to someone with a low income, you then get accused of not lending to the poor. 6+ year car loans exist to facilitate lending to people who don't have money. Although ideally we'd have people buy less car, with cash, rather than finance shit.

No one is forced to take out a college loan for a useless degree or a shitty mortgage when you can instead rent or buy less house. We buy much larger houses on average than we did even 50 years ago.

problem with mortgages and 6 year car loans is no one can predict what will happen in that entire time that someone may end up losing a job or face some sort of crisis. that's how they fall behind.

You're not wrong. That is why everyone needs to live on less than we make.

t_paynes_ghost posted...

All of these are choices people make. Poor choices are offered because people accept them. You can fault the lenders to some degree but at the end of the day it's the consumers responsibility to ensure they are buying a good product, especially when that purchase is in the 5 digits and beyond.

i feel like you are assigning too much responsibility to someone with little income & very likely little education.

chances are someone who is poor has grown up in a poor family themselves, so they have a completely different mindset & will not approach financial decisions the same way someone with more education and financial acumen will.

At the same time you have these organizations stocked with sales people or realtors or w/e that are dying to make a sale to these guys so they can get their monthly bonus.

CornBarn posted...

Right, but the leftists on CE are distinctly not interested in any conversations on personal responsibility.

it's not an effective discussion at all, it's just feel-good shit for people who are already in an advantageous position
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Romulox28 posted...

chances are someone who is poor has grown up in a poor family themselves, so they have a completely different mindset & will not approach financial decisions the same way someone with more education and financial acumen will. At the same time you have these organizations stocked with sales people or realtors or w/e that are dying to make a sale to these guys so they can get their monthly bonus.

Most people know the basic math needed to decide whether or not a purchase makes sense. They just don't care about having discipline because they live for today rather than for tomorrow.

All lot of my coworkers are doing 2 jobs. They all make good money at our full time jobs but they need a side job to get by still like uber. Housing in my city is in the millions for a home its alot to handle.

I've been working 2 jobs doing 70 hours week for 2 years now to save money mostly.
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CornBarn posted...

Romulox28 posted...

chances are someone who is poor has grown up in a poor family themselves, so they have a completely different mindset & will not approach financial decisions the same way someone with more education and financial acumen will. At the same time you have these organizations stocked with sales people or realtors or w/e that are dying to make a sale to these guys so they can get their monthly bonus.

Most people know the basic math needed to decide whether or not a purchase makes sense. They just don't care about having discipline because they live for today rather than for tomorrow.

An uneducated guy with a low-income manual labor job that he works for 50 hours a week needs a new car.

The salesperson at the dealership shows him how he can afford this crossover for his family with a $15k loan spread out over 8 years, so the guy is only paying a little over $150 a month for the car.

The guy gets excited. He can afford that $150, he loves the car, he works hard to provide for his family, and he normally keeps his cars for 10 years anyway so what's the problem with an 8 year loan?

Shit like this is what gets a lot of poor people. My good friend's girlfriend is from a very poor family and gets herself into situations like this all the time that my buddy has to bail her out of.

A lot of people are way in over their heads in decisions like this that might be simple to you, and then there are guys out there ready to pounce and take advantage of it.
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Romulox28 posted...

t_paynes_ghost posted...

All of these are choices people make. Poor choices are offered because people accept them. You can fault the lenders to some degree but at the end of the day it's the consumers responsibility to ensure they are buying a good product, especially when that purchase is in the 5 digits and beyond.

i feel like you are assigning too much responsibility to someone with little income & very likely little education.

chances are someone who is poor has grown up in a poor family themselves, so they have a completely different mindset & will not approach financial decisions the same way someone with more education and financial acumen will.

At the same time you have these organizations stocked with sales people or realtors or w/e that are dying to make a sale to these guys so they can get their monthly bonus.

CornBarn posted...

Right, but the leftists on CE are distinctly not interested in any conversations on personal responsibility.

it's not an effective discussion at all, it's just feel-good shit for people who are already in an advantageous position

Fair points. It's also never been easier to get information about what a good loan is and isn't though. I've said it many times budgeting and mortgages and loans need to be taught in school. It's a critical life skill in todays world. That being said, just accepting whatever someone throws at you when such a big purchase is involved is not something you should do, or do lightly.

I've been a poor person living paycheck to paycheck. My family growing up was the poor family in the middle class neighborhood. I know what it's like. That's why I know what constitutes a good product and what doesn't, because I had to learn to get ahead. How a poor person can look at a 5 figure purchase and not do any research on the value of it is kind of mind blowing to me.

Romulox28 posted...

An uneducated guy with a low-income manual labor job that he works for 50 hours a week needs a new car.

That's where everyone should stop reading.

That dude doesn't need a new car. He needs a $3,500 Honda that'll last him for several years.

CornBarn posted...

Romulox28 posted...

An uneducated guy with a low-income manual labor job that he works for 50 hours a week needs a new car.

That's where everyone should stop reading.

That dude doesn't need a new car. He needs a $3,500 Honda that'll last him for several years.

i agree with you, but once again you're approaching this from an educated outsider perspective.

there are A LOT of people in this country with very little financial sense, im talking even at a fundamental level, and they have no idea how money works beyond small transactions.

when you get to transactions in the thousands it goes into "money i don't have" territory and then that's where you can really fuck these people over with stuff like adjustable rates and monthly payments. i recently bought a new car and the first thing the guy said to me is "how much do you want to pay a month", not what our budget is or how much we want to pay OTD

t_paynes_ghost posted...

I've been a poor person living paycheck to paycheck. My family growing up was the poor family in the middle class neighborhood. I know what it's like. That's why I know what constitutes a good product and what doesn't, because I had to learn to get ahead. How a poor person can look at a 5 figure purchase and not do any research on the value of it is kind of mind blowing to me.

did your family value your education though? i feel like that is a major factor. as i said above my theory is that many ppl view big expenses as these intangible things because they dont have that type of money
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Did my family value education? I suppose as much as any other family would, they never hounded me about homework or grades or anything, but then they didn't need to because I was usually a solid B student through my school career.

I for one have more confidence in the basic abilities of the people, but no confidence in the people's willingness to be disciplined and wise. It's not a matter of education, but of will.

t_paynes_ghost posted...

Did my family value education? I suppose as much as any other family would, they never hounded me about homework or grades or anything, but then they didn't need to because I was usually a solid B student through my school career.

Some people just naturally think about these types of things more so than other. Like I was saying in that other topic that you made, no one ever "taught" me to be fiscally responsible. I just noticed that people were living well beyond their means and I thought to myself "how do I set myself up to not be in that situation".

It is simple thought but at the end of the day, a lot of people either don't do it or are to undisciplined to do it. Either one shouldn't really be that surprising.
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CornBarn posted...

kingdrake2 posted...

CornBarn posted...

Romulox28 posted...

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc

The problem is that if you don't lend to someone with a low income, you then get accused of not lending to the poor. 6+ year car loans exist to facilitate lending to people who don't have money. Although ideally we'd have people buy less car, with cash, rather than finance shit.

No one is forced to take out a college loan for a useless degree or a shitty mortgage when you can instead rent or buy less house. We buy much larger houses on average than we did even 50 years ago.

problem with mortgages and 6 year car loans is no one can predict what will happen in that entire time that someone may end up losing a job or face some sort of crisis. that's how they fall behind.

You're not wrong. That is why everyone needs to live on less than we make.

I see posts like this (and while I give everyone on CE the benefit of the doubt...) and it is so hard to think your parents dont take care of you.

Just lol. Live on less than you make when you make $10/hr and your portion of rent is $650. Show me the math for where theres money available to live on less than you make lol.
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EdgeMaster posted...

CornBarn posted...

kingdrake2 posted...

CornBarn posted...

Romulox28 posted...

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc

The problem is that if you don't lend to someone with a low income, you then get accused of not lending to the poor. 6+ year car loans exist to facilitate lending to people who don't have money. Although ideally we'd have people buy less car, with cash, rather than finance shit.

No one is forced to take out a college loan for a useless degree or a shitty mortgage when you can instead rent or buy less house. We buy much larger houses on average than we did even 50 years ago.

problem with mortgages and 6 year car loans is no one can predict what will happen in that entire time that someone may end up losing a job or face some sort of crisis. that's how they fall behind.

You're not wrong. That is why everyone needs to live on less than we make.

I see posts like this (and while I give everyone on CE the benefit of the doubt...) and it is so hard to think your parents dont take care of you.

Just lol. Live on less than you make when you make $10/hr and your portion of rent is $650. Show me the math for where theres money available to live on less than you make lol.

I pay all of my bills, including my housing costs. And at first I relied on room mates to split rent with. If your portion of rent is still that high and you're only making $10/hr, you're an outlier compared with the median household income and you need to get your income up or reduce your rent or both. Time to be an adult.

Twin3Turbo posted...

t_paynes_ghost posted...

Did my family value education? I suppose as much as any other family would, they never hounded me about homework or grades or anything, but then they didn't need to because I was usually a solid B student through my school career.

Some people just naturally think about these types of things more so than other. Like I was saying in that other topic that you made, no one ever "taught" me to be fiscally responsible. I just noticed that people were living well beyond their means and I thought to myself "how do I set myself up to not be in that situation".

It is simple thought but at the end of the day, a lot of people either don't do it or are to undisciplined to do it. Either one shouldn't really be that surprising.

You're not wrong, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a big issue when it comes to class wealth and class debt. I'm not surprised by it at all, merely pointing it out.

I'm thinking about taking up a 2nd job on the weekends. Having a hard time finding a place that will allow me to just work 2 days. I wouldn't mind working 7 days as my main job is easy and requires no effort and if I get tired I can just take a day for myself, but i wouldn't want to work my main job and then go to a 2nd job Monday-Friday and then also weekends.

Also, I won't do a job where it requires me to use my own car (uber, lyft, medical transport etc). Any company that's too cheap to provide me with a company vehicle is a company I don't need to be working for. The wear and tear on your car isn't worth it.
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CornBarn posted...

Right, but the leftists on CE are distinctly not interested in any conversations on personal responsibility.

I've advocated for years that we teach personal responsibility in schools. Revive home ec as a required class, but make it about actual personal economics. How to make a budget, how to plan for your retirement, how to identify a good loan vs a bad one, how to develop good credit, etc. This stuff is not difficult, but people will not learn it if they are not taught.

There seems to be an economic impetus not to, as there's high profit margin on these products that abuse the poor.
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also

CornBarn posted...

He needs a $3,500 Honda that'll last him for several years.

fwiw, a 3500 honda will be about 14 years old with 130-150k miles on it

https://tinyurl.com/ybkn2kfw

that may or may not last 'several years' and probably will come with another 2500 in repairs if it does

sweet spot for used cars tends to be in the $10,000 range, which is tough for middle class families to pay, and loans for oldish used cars are also tough to find. you generally have to pay cash

i drive an 07 corolla that i bought from a mechanic i've used for years and trust. he acquired it on a salvage title and rebuilt as a side project. it cost ~$7000 when i bought it back in 2015.

most people don't have a trusted mechanic they can buy from in straight cash. or the ability to buy in straight cash.

a lot of the 'good financial ideas' are basically outside the middle class family's reach entirely.
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Darkman124 posted...

CornBarn posted...

Right, but the leftists on CE are distinctly not interested in any conversations on personal responsibility.

I've advocated for years that we teach personal responsibility in schools. Revive home ec as a required class, but make it about actual personal economics. How to make a budget, how to plan for your retirement, how to identify a good loan vs a bad one, how to develop good credit, etc. This stuff is not difficult, but people will not learn it if they are not taught.

There seems to be an economic impetus not to, as there's high profit margin on these products that abuse the poor.

Mortgages and loans are weighted heavily towards keeping people in debt as long as possible. Payday loans are the worst thing you could do for your finances.
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Alucard188 posted...

Mortgages and loans are weighted heavily towards keeping people in debt as long as possible. Payday loans are the worst thing you could do for your finances.

yep. the one exception to this is that the 30-year mortgages actually saw their interest rate fall so far that certain of them are basically less than inflation. obv not true about new mortgages rolling out, just ones that came out during the periods where bonds and MBS peaked in price/bottomed in yield.

i locked mine at 3.25% in early 2013.
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These always just say poor people are stupid and are very unrealistic.
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Maybe I just live unusually light compared to most people but my $15/hour job provides me with more money than I care to spend.

Then again, my monthly "set expenses" are only $300 total between bills and rent because I live in a tiny ass apartment. I eat cheap filling shit like rice, beans, pasta, etc. I might burn through 1 tank of gas in a month, but usually less. I don't smoke or drink, and "hanging out with friends" is usually us hanging out playing board/card games rather than going to bars or other money pits. My personal monthly spend might be around $500 on average, after all other things are considered.

The problem I suppose is even putting away all the rest of that money into the bank doesn't seem to stack up quickly enough to do a whole lot with. Buying a house seems far away even if there's $10k sitting in the bank going nowhere.

But then I feel terrible for my friends who work their lower-paying jobs and do indeed struggle to get things together. Not everyone is willing to live a super simple lifestyle like this.

Darkman124 posted...

also

CornBarn posted...

He needs a $3,500 Honda that'll last him for several years.

fwiw, a 3500 honda will be about 14 years old with 130-150k miles on it

https://tinyurl.com/ybkn2kfw

that may or may not last 'several years' and probably will come with another 2500 in repairs if it does

sweet spot for used cars tends to be in the $10,000 range, which is tough for middle class families to pay, and loans for oldish used cars are also tough to find. you generally have to pay cash

i drive an 07 corolla that i bought from a mechanic i've used for years and trust. he acquired it on a salvage title and rebuilt as a side project. it cost ~$7000 when i bought it back in 2015.

most people don't have a trusted mechanic they can buy from in straight cash. or the ability to buy in straight cash.

a lot of the 'good financial ideas' are basically outside the middle class family's reach entirely.

A Honda with just 130k miles will easily last you several years. And if you want you can even drive a cheaper car for a year while you save up more money from not having a car loan to pay. Within a year a financially responsible person should be able to save at least $5000 for a car if they don't have a car loan.

At that point you'd just sell your current beater and couple the proceeds with the $5000 to move up in car. Then repeat a year or two later. Etc. Anyone in the middle class could do this with discipline.

YonicBoom posted...

Maybe I just live unusually light compared to most people but my $15/hour job provides me with more money than I care to spend.

Then again, my monthly "set expenses" are only $300 total between bills and rent because I live in a tiny ass apartment. I eat cheap filling shit like rice, beans, pasta, etc. I might burn through 1 tank of gas in a month, but usually less. I don't smoke or drink, and "hanging out with friends" is usually us hanging out playing board/card games rather than going to bars or other money pits. My personal monthly spend might be around $500 on average, after all other things are considered.

The problem I suppose is even putting away all the rest of that money into the bank doesn't seem to stack up quickly enough to do a whole lot with. Buying a house seems far away even if there's $10k sitting in the bank going nowhere.

But then I feel terrible for my friends who work their lower-paying jobs and do indeed struggle to get things together. Not everyone is willing to live a super simple lifestyle like this.

Put that monkey in the market so that it works for you and generates interest

CornBarn posted...

EdgeMaster posted...

CornBarn posted...

kingdrake2 posted...

CornBarn posted...

Romulox28 posted...

i feel like it doesnt help that there are so many systems in place in society that take advantage of poor people. 6+ year car loans, mortgages with variable interest rates, college loans you cant default on, etc

The problem is that if you don't lend to someone with a low income, you then get accused of not lending to the poor. 6+ year car loans exist to facilitate lending to people who don't have money. Although ideally we'd have people buy less car, with cash, rather than finance shit.

No one is forced to take out a college loan for a useless degree or a shitty mortgage when you can instead rent or buy less house. We buy much larger houses on average than we did even 50 years ago.

problem with mortgages and 6 year car loans is no one can predict what will happen in that entire time that someone may end up losing a job or face some sort of crisis. that's how they fall behind.

You're not wrong. That is why everyone needs to live on less than we make.

I see posts like this (and while I give everyone on CE the benefit of the doubt...) and it is so hard to think your parents dont take care of you.

Just lol. Live on less than you make when you make $10/hr and your portion of rent is $650. Show me the math for where theres money available to live on less than you make lol.

I pay all of my bills, including my housing costs. And at first I relied on room mates to split rent with. If your portion of rent is still that high and you're only making $10/hr, you're an outlier compared with the median household income and you need to get your income up or reduce your rent or both. Time to be an adult.

Hahah I like how you ignore doing the math then proceed to suggest that I make $10/hr. Bonus points for opening with I pay all my bills then going for a hasty and at first I relied on roommates. Funny because its cliche advice that CE recommends to others while living with their parents despite being the obvious standard of living while youre in college or recently graduated.

$650 is about average in my area and I make considerably more than $10/hr.

The point here, which you missed, is that there isnt any money left over and you do have to live paycheck to paycheck until you find something better.
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CornBarn posted...

YonicBoom posted...

Maybe I just live unusually light compared to most people but my $15/hour job provides me with more money than I care to spend.

Then again, my monthly "set expenses" are only $300 total between bills and rent because I live in a tiny ass apartment. I eat cheap filling shit like rice, beans, pasta, etc. I might burn through 1 tank of gas in a month, but usually less. I don't smoke or drink, and "hanging out with friends" is usually us hanging out playing board/card games rather than going to bars or other money pits. My personal monthly spend might be around $500 on average, after all other things are considered.

The problem I suppose is even putting away all the rest of that money into the bank doesn't seem to stack up quickly enough to do a whole lot with. Buying a house seems far away even if there's $10k sitting in the bank going nowhere.

But then I feel terrible for my friends who work their lower-paying jobs and do indeed struggle to get things together. Not everyone is willing to live a super simple lifestyle like this.

Put that monkey in the market so that it works for you and generates interest

This one is a gem. Great vague advice, really shows your hands on experience with this stuff.

You wouldve been a better parrot if you used vocab words like 401k, Roth IRA and stocks.
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CornBarn posted...

Darkman124 posted...

also

CornBarn posted...

He needs a $3,500 Honda that'll last him for several years.

fwiw, a 3500 honda will be about 14 years old with 130-150k miles on it

https://tinyurl.com/ybkn2kfw

that may or may not last 'several years' and probably will come with another 2500 in repairs if it does

sweet spot for used cars tends to be in the $10,000 range, which is tough for middle class families to pay, and loans for oldish used cars are also tough to find. you generally have to pay cash

i drive an 07 corolla that i bought from a mechanic i've used for years and trust. he acquired it on a salvage title and rebuilt as a side project. it cost ~$7000 when i bought it back in 2015.

most people don't have a trusted mechanic they can buy from in straight cash. or the ability to buy in straight cash.

a lot of the 'good financial ideas' are basically outside the middle class family's reach entirely.

A Honda with just 130k miles will easily last you several years. And if you want you can even drive a cheaper car for a year while you save up more money from not having a car loan to pay. Within a year a financially responsible person should be able to save at least $5000 for a car if they don't have a car loan.

At that point you'd just sell your current beater and couple the proceeds with the $5000 to move up in car. Then repeat a year or two later. Etc. Anyone in the middle class could do this with discipline.

Pretty hard to save up $5000 when you're constantly putting money into a beater just to keep it running.