Board 8 > Improvements Pokemon games need to keep from Let's Go

(+) Yeah! (+)

Grand Kirby posted...

How big is the department of people responsible for animations at Game Freak? I'd say there's room to expand.

Bold of you to assume they have one.
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LapisLazuli posted...

For the non-snarky answer, it just seems hypocritical to me that you'd say they should move forward with the Pokmon following you and cosmetics as a fun presentation thing, but when it comes to the actual important presentation in the action you just say "screw that who cares".

Can't really have it both ways, dude. The latter seems like a way bigger deal than the former, too.

I mean I wasn't even giving my personal opinion, I was just saying why people accept it. Most people complain about the longer move animations in Pokemon games/generally just turn them off because if you're playing competitively at all and are grinding stuff out, it's just padding that makes things take longer. So those people naturally care less about the shorter, simpler animations in these battles, too.
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That seems completely counterintuitive to what this game is trying to be, though.
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Not really. The game isn't trying to be a realistic battle simulator. People don't play Pokemon for the battle animations. They play Pokemon for the customization in team building, which longer/better animations actually work against.

I'm not saying the animations shouldn't be better, because they should. I'm just saying that the core audience isn't really focusing on it.
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I just think if a game is primarily only here for pure fanservice, your presentation should be on point.
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agree actually
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Well, Let's Go certainly isn't a game that's here for pure fanservice

It's primarily meant to be a bridge between Go players and the core series. Most of the decisions they made with it actually pissed the fanbase off until they learned it was a fun game in its own right. It's very much a game that wasn't intended to strictly please already existing fans, though.
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Unironically agreeing with LtM here.

The lack of effort on the battle animations has always bothered me. And the Red Dead comparison is valid. That game has so much detail on literally EVERYTHING that Blastoise water cannons shouldn't even be an issue for a Pokemon game.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Well, Let's Go certainly isn't a game that's here for pure fanservice

Ah, well I guess we see where our hard disagree is here then. I don't see Let's Go as anything but a tech demo for GameFreak built for extreme fanservice based marketing to justify itself.

Let's Go is just the Ground Zeroes of Pokmon.
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Again, let me be clear that I'm not saying the animations don't bother me or that they don't need to be better, because that's absolutely not true.

My initial reply was to LtM asking "Why is this acceptable in 2018," and it's "acceptable" to most Pokemon fans in 2018 because most of them couldn't care less about the battle animations. I'm not saying that's right or anything. I'm just saying there's a reason the core audience mostly ignores it

I'd also say there's a lack of effort since battling kinda takes a back seat since this game is first and foremost meant to try and get Go players to want to play the main series. If the core game stays this way, then I'd certainly say it's a bigger deal than they make it out to be, yes.
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LapisLazuli posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Well, Let's Go certainly isn't a game that's here for pure fanservice

Ah, well I guess we see where our hard disagree is here then. I don't see Let's Go as anything but a tech demo for GameFreak built for extreme fanservice based marketing to justify itself.

Let's Go is just the Ground Zeroes of Pokmon.

Well, that's literally why Let's Go was made. It literally connects to Go and has a lot of Go's mechanics shoved into it, and they've always advertised it as a bridge type of game.

It's certainly not a fanservice love letter because a majority of the stuff they took out was stuff fans loved and got pissed about.
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I always turn the animations off when possible, and longer battle times due to padding generally piss me off and make me stop playing any game.
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StealThisSheen posted...

It's certainly not a fanservice love letter because a majority of the stuff they took out was stuff fans loved and got pissed about.

I see it as a fanservice for lapsed fans from the late 90s and early 00s.

Which is most the type of people who got into Go, so I don't think we're acfually disagreeing here.
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Yeah, I agree too. The Stadium animations gave the Pokemon so much more character than the animations they have nowadays. And the team building thing is a lame excuse, since the team building in this game is the worst they've had in a long time (only the first 150, no abilities/held items, no egg moves, missing a ton of moves including signature moves of Pokemon that are in the game). They couldn't get that right either.
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LapisLazuli posted...

It's Pokmon, gotta balance all the crazies around here that Stan for it somehow.

See again, this bitterness is complete nutso

Nobody is saying this is some amazing masterpiece game, especially in regards to it visuals. It's just doing cool stuff we're happy with and most of us weren't really expecting much in the first place but it's turning out to be pleasantly enjoyable

You're just coming off as triggered by people enjoying a game that wasn't given a huge budget and it doesn't sound like you have any idea at all how development even works.

ExThaNemesis posted...

Unironically agreeing with LtM here.

The lack of effort on the battle animations has always bothered me. And the Red Dead comparison is valid. That game has so much detail on literally EVERYTHING that Blastoise water cannons shouldn't even be an issue for a Pokemon game.

Red Dead is a nonsense comparison. It's a mature, realistic style game that's been in development for 8 years and with a massive dev crew behind it. Game Freak is a small company that works in a short time frame, with Let's Go announced as a new version targeted towards young, casual audiences specifically to pair with Pokemon Go.

Not every game is Red Dead Redemption and that's been true for decades.
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Nutso nonsense.
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CelesMyUserName posted...

Not every game is Red Dead Redemption and that's been true for decades.

True, but I'm not asking to see the Pokemon shit or have their balls shrink when they get cold. I just want some goddamn battle animations, man.
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Pretending like Game freak couldn't do more is incredible. Like there's no reason at all this game couldn't have been the "Smash Ultimate" of pokemon.

Like you don't have to compare it to red dead or zelda botw to know that them not including johto was them just being like "eh why bother" they have the money, resources, and support from nintendo to basically do whatever they want, but what they wanted to do was recreate kanto on a 1 to 1 scale with chibi graphics. And for some weird ass reason lots of people are like "Yeah that's worth the same price as zelda botw, mario odyssey, red dead redemption 2"

Like what if you jumped from this universe to the universe where sakurai was just redoing smash 64 with better graphics and cute little nods to past 64 fans. You'd be like "yeah.. it's kind of a cool game but I can't believe people are excited over THIS"

Like why does every other series get held to standards except for pokemon? That's the part that's bothering me.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

Pretending like Game freak couldn't do more is incredible. Like there's no reason at all this game couldn't have been the "Smash Ultimate" of pokemon.

Like you don't have to compare it to red dead or zelda botw to know that them not including johto was them just being like "eh why bother" they have the money, resources, and support from nintendo to basically do whatever they want, but what they wanted to do was recreate kanto on a 1 to 1 scale with chibi graphics. And for some weird ass reason lots of people are like "Yeah that's worth the same price as zelda botw, mario odyssey, red dead redemption 2"

Like what if you jumped from this universe to the universe where sakurai was just redoing smash 64 with better graphics and cute little nods to past 64 fans. You'd be like "yeah.. it's kind of a cool game but I can't believe people are excited over THIS"

Like why does every other series get held to standards except for pokemon? That's the part that's bothering me.

Probably cause this isnt Gen 8, and youre just complaining to complain. That would be my guess...

Like, that's the thing. This isn't Gen 8. It's a game you don't have to play.

Yes, it has a lot of problems that can be criticized. And if the problems plague Gen 8, then that is indeed a big issue.

But people seem to get so offended that people actually find this game fun for what it is for some reason
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Imagine if something like Hey you Pikachu got this much shit, or Mystery Dungeon....

It wouldnt happen, why, its a side game.

So are these.

Shut the fuck up!

Your defense is only fine if you're in agreement that this should have been a $20 release. I personally would have no issues if it were priced to what it's budget and effort deserves.

MWC being on your side hurts your argument a lot.
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FinaIFantasy posted...

Imagine if something like Hey you Pikachu got this much shit

To be fair I'm pretty sure almost everyone hates Hey You Pikachu
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LapisLazuli posted...

Your defense is only fine if you're in agreement that this should have been a $20 release.

MWC being on your side hurts your argument a lot.

Its a first party Switch game

Its 60 dollars like every other one.

LapisLazuli posted...

Your defense is only fine if you're in agreement that this should have been a $20 release.

MWC being on your side hurts your argument a lot.

I mean I don't regret paying $60, so...
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Kenri posted...

FinaIFantasy posted...

Imagine if something like Hey you Pikachu got this much shit

To be fair I'm pretty sure almost everyone hates Hey You Pikachu

They dont talk about it though.

Because they were smart enough to understand this game wasnt for them and shut their mouths.

Thats what these are.

You arent missing anything here, its not a gen 8 or gen 7 game. You can skip them and be fine .

StealThisSheen posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

Your defense is only fine if you're in agreement that this should have been a $20 release.

MWC being on your side hurts your argument a lot.

I mean I don't regret paying $60, so...

I paid 100...

Happy as a clam

those side games weren't game freak projects headed by Masuda

and they didn't come right after a separate 0 effort project

you your analogy doesn't make much sense?
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SantaRPidgey posted...

Pretending like Game freak couldn't do more is incredible. Like there's no reason at all this game couldn't have been the "Smash Ultimate" of pokemon.

Like you don't have to compare it to red dead or zelda botw to know that them not including johto was them just being like "eh why bother" they have the money, resources, and support from nintendo to basically do whatever they want, but what they wanted to do was recreate kanto on a 1 to 1 scale with chibi graphics. And for some weird ass reason lots of people are like "Yeah that's worth the same price as zelda botw, mario odyssey, red dead redemption 2"

Like what if you jumped from this universe to the universe where sakurai was just redoing smash 64 with better graphics and cute little nods to past 64 fans. You'd be like "yeah.. it's kind of a cool game but I can't believe people are excited over THIS"

Like why does every other series get held to standards except for pokemon? That's the part that's bothering me.

"Can" Game Freak do it? Sure.

Not in a year, and not the features people are talking about here in a small-scale reimagining geared towards younger audience by an already young standard Pokemon's normally at.

I don't think you realize how small Game Freak is. They've been a handeheld dev team since the 90s, they are not anywhere near the league Nintendo's major dev teams. The things you guys are asking for are going to take a much longer dev time than what Go got, which is longer than Go even deserves in the first place.

Comparing Game Freak to EAD isn't a discussion. Game Freak =/= Nintendo, and taking Pokemon from Game Freak would be a major restructuring taking away from Nintendo's actual big teams. Saying it doesn't deserve to be full priced is fine, but that's the case of like 99% of the gaming market. You might as well say stop making retail Switch games at that point. This is just what the game has been marketed as since it was announced, and given the sales, demand is there for it. You're just not part of that demand.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

those side games weren't game freak projects headed by Masuda

and they didn't come right after a separate 0 effort project

you your analogy doesn't make much sense?

Still a side game. If you want to complain about Ultra, thats fine. I get that. Complaining about Lets Go when its a game not designed for you is complaining to be an asshole. Go play games made for you.

GuessMyUserName posted...

Not in a year, and not the features people are talking about here

#makeblastoiseswatershootoutofhiscannons
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LapisLazuli posted...

GuessMyUserName posted...

Not in a year, and not the features people are talking about here

#makeblastoiseswatershootoutofhiscannons

The only time this ever bugged me was 2004....

Hydro Cannon was an exclusive move Blastoise only in FRLG. NO EXCUSE not to have that fire out of his cannons.

All the other they have a legit excuse

LapisLazuli posted...

GuessMyUserName posted...

Not in a year, and not the features people are talking about here

#makeblastoiseswatershootoutofhiscannons

yes you've made it clear that you don't know a single thing about how any development process works
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OK gmun.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

those side games weren't game freak projects headed by Masuda

I'm not really sure why this matters? We knew what kind of game we were getting the entire time. Nothing was hidden, nothing was lied about, whatever. We knew there were 150 Pokemon, we knew there was no Johto, we knew there were no held items, we knew wild battles were replaced with the Go mechanic, and so on. So you knew this whole time that the game wasn't for you. What's the point of being outraged over the fact that people like it? Just because you don't? They specifically said Gen 8 was coming next year. Wouldn't it be more wise to save anger for seeing how that turns out instead of getting so up in arms about a side game?
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GuessMyUserName posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

GuessMyUserName posted...

Not in a year, and not the features people are talking about here

#makeblastoiseswatershootoutofhiscannons

yes you've made it clear that you don't know a single thing about how any development process works

I mean... thats fair, he doesnt...

But still, FRLG, NO EXCUSE!!!!

GuessMyUserName posted...

Not in a year

They had the exact same amount of time as anyone other developer on the switch?

GuessMyUserName posted...

Comparing Game Freak to EAD isn't a discussion. Game Freak =/= Nintendo, and taking Pokemon from Game Freak would be a major restructuring taking away from Nintendo's actual big teams.

Do they need to be restructured to hire/borrow a bigger development team? Their money/resources ratio of pokemon is probably way wider than any first party nintendo franchise.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

Do they need to be restructured to hire/borrow a bigger development team? Their money/resources ratio of pokemon is probably way wider than any first party nintendo franchise.

yes

Mainline Pokemon has been ingrained with Game Freak on handhelds for decades. They've never needed anything like this before, they've done their own thing with the mainseries Pokemon games and where they were (on handhelds) they were fine - even if already showing strain on the 3DS titles. Pokemon being able to get away with cheap production and major returns is a feature to Nintendo, one that feeds into Pokemon's autonomy which is definitely the most disconnected major series to Big N.

These expansions don't just happen as needed, Game Freak just has a lot of growth to do, and if you're talking about taking roles of Game Freak from the mainlines you've got Japanese corporate culture to deal with protecting the dev team.

Can't stress enough how disjointed Pokemon is among the many companies managing it.

All that *needs* to be highlighted though is that, as SEP pointed out. This isn't even the mainline, they announced the next Pokemon games along side this for a reason. Wait to see how that true next gen Pokemon Gen turns out instead of getting our panties in a bunch over a reimagining spin-off series that's dumbed down as its very concept. Let's Go is a simple side-project they've been doing in the meantime while they're making use of the actual development time they need on the major project.

Nobody here (me either) really has any clue what's going on in the corporate side or any idea of what is and isn't "easy". What we do know is that Let's Go is a sidemeal entry with a lot of neat features in it we can enjoy right now while Nintendo & co all continue working on the simultaneously announced major series hopefully dropping next year. If you don't wanna spend +$60 on a sidemeal suit yourself, but I'll remind Santa that Opoona still originally released at full MSRP! Retail game prices have just never scaled that way.

We also know, historically and quite well documented, that people who complain about "lazy devs" are trash beings who don't know anything they're talking about.
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