Current Events > I'm watching a different Goldberg match for each night of Hanukkah

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tonight, I'm starting with his debut match against Hugh Morris.

Well that's humorous
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Oh, you.

Watch Santa's Slay instead. It's basically a wrestling match.
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His finishing move was literally a spear. A regular move anyone could do. Trash.
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Irony posted...

Watch Santa's Slay instead. It's basically a wrestling match.

"Move, bitch! Get out of the way!"

lol. Wrong topic.

Anyway, last night's match was Goldberg against Steve McMichael. It's my favorite bad wrestling match because it's the one which transitioned Goldberg from "football guy" to "the streak."

PIITB415 posted...

His finishing move was literally a spear. A regular move anyone could do. Trash.

his finisher was the Jackhammer which not just anyone could do.
his spear was his set up / signature move.

the nitros he beat raven and the flock (or was it nest? i can't remember) and then hall and Hogan were things of legends.
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Day 1, Goldberg versus Hugh Morris (Goldberg's TV debut)
Short, yet paradoxically slow paced. This might've been intentional as Goldberg kicking out of the No Laughing Matter moonsault was meant to surprise the audience. It's a one trick pony, but an effective debut.
Fortune's Rating: 2 spears out of 4

Day 2, Goldberg versus Mongo (Golberg's Starrcade debut)
This one was a clunky slugfest from the beginning and Goldberg had his opponent beaten in the first third of the match. It did a good job though of establishing Goldberg's power.
Fortune's Rating: 1 spear out of 4

Day 3, Goldberg versus Raven (US title match)
The crowd hung on every move in this match. The cheers at the end when Goldberg cleared the entire Flock were electric. They made a really good use of Raven's Rules as well.
Fortune's Rating: 3 spears out of 4

Tomorrow's match, Goldberg versus Hollywood Hogan

Day 4, Goldberg versus Hollywood Hogan (WCW title match)
This one pitted the nigh invulnerable hero against the wicked veteran. Goldberg weathered the fiercest storm of his career as Hogan unleashed a barrage of heavy striking blows and relentless cheating tactics. This was perhaps Hogan's most unseflish moment and unquestionably the biggest victory of Goldberg's career.
Fortune's Rating: 4 spears out of 4

Tomorrow's match, Goldberg versus Sting

interresting lol
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Day 5, Goldberg versus Sting
WCW Monday Nitro. I believe this was the last time WCW legitimately bested the WWF in the ratings. This was a unique match and I can't think of a time in which strength versus agility was better exemplified. They had a bit of role-reversal too with Goldberg utilizing wrestling moves and Sting doing a couple of power moves. The ending saw Hogan interfere, but this was a free TV match.
Fortune's Rating: 3 out of 4

Tomorrow's match, Goldberg versus Diamond Dallas Page at Halloween Havoc

Irony posted...

Watch Santa's Slay instead. It's basically a wrestling match.

Fuck yeah
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FortuneCookie posted...

Day 5, Goldberg versus Sting
WCW Monday Nitro. I believe this was the last time WCW legitimately bested the WWF in the ratings. This was a unique match and I can't think of a time in which strength versus agility was better exemplified. They had a bit of role-reversal too with Goldberg utilizing wrestling moves and Sting doing a couple of power moves. The ending saw Hogan interfere, but this was a free TV match.
Fortune's Rating: 3 out of 4

Tomorrow's match, Goldberg versus Diamond Dallas Page at Halloween Havoc

I just saw the Halloween Havoc match yesterday, it was a good match.
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Goldberg is the most boring top draw of all time. Literally worse than the Ultimate Warrior.
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SpiralDrift posted...

Goldberg is the most boring top draw of all time. Literally worse than the Ultimate Warrior.

Diesel?
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his match versus DDP at Halloween Havoc is his best match of all time
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EvalAngell posted...

his match versus DDP at Halloween Havoc is his best match of all time

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KnehdZ3bjQ" data-time="

Gooooooldberg! Goooooooldberg! Goooooooldberg!
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FortuneCookie posted...

Day 4, Goldberg versus Hollywood Hogan (WCW title match)
This one pitted the nigh invulnerable hero against the wicked veteran. Goldberg weathered the fiercest storm of his career as Hogan unleashed a barrage of heavy striking blows and relentless cheating tactics. This was perhaps Hogan's most unseflish moment and unquestionably the biggest victory of Goldberg's career.
Fortune's Rating: 4 spears out of 4

If you watch this match again, you'll notice that WCW botched the ending.

1) Hennig interfering and distracting Hogan makes no sense since Hogan was in control of the match and both are nWo at the time.

2) WCW cut the camera away from Hogan hitting the Hogan leg drop on Goldberg. You don't even know he did the move until Hogan is seen getting up from the pin.

A very strange ending but still the pinnacle of WCW.
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PIITB415 posted...

His finishing move was literally a spear. A regular move anyone could do. Trash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl-Sd8nw8c8" data-time="

That is not a fucking spear.
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Zack_Attackv1 posted...

PIITB415 posted...

His finishing move was literally a spear. A regular move anyone could do. Trash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl-Sd8nw8c8" data-time="

That is not a fucking spear.

My dad always liked saying the easiest way to tell who was a good wrestler was how straight up in the air their legs were during a suplex. For not being in that position often, big show kept his legs nice and vertical.
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Vol2tex posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

Goldberg is the most boring top draw of all time. Literally worse than the Ultimate Warrior.

Diesel?

Not sure if he counts since he didn't really draw.
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SpiralDrift posted...

Vol2tex posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

Goldberg is the most boring top draw of all time. Literally worse than the Ultimate Warrior.

Diesel?

Not sure if he counts since he didn't really draw.

Good point
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EvalAngell posted...

FortuneCookie posted...

Day 4, Goldberg versus Hollywood Hogan (WCW title match)
This one pitted the nigh invulnerable hero against the wicked veteran. Goldberg weathered the fiercest storm of his career as Hogan unleashed a barrage of heavy striking blows and relentless cheating tactics. This was perhaps Hogan's most unseflish moment and unquestionably the biggest victory of Goldberg's career.
Fortune's Rating: 4 spears out of 4

If you watch this match again, you'll notice that WCW botched the ending.

1) Hennig interfering and distracting Hogan makes no sense since Hogan was in control of the match and both are nWo at the time.

2) WCW cut the camera away from Hogan hitting the Hogan leg drop on Goldberg. You don't even know he did the move until Hogan is seen getting up from the pin.

A very strange ending but still the pinnacle of WCW.

I didn't mention the shoddy camerawork because it was no fault of the wrestlers in the ring. I can't for the life of me understand why they'd hold the camera on the guys walking down to the ring when the wrestlers were going into the finish. You could hear the third leg drop, but it took place completely off-screen.

Day 6, Goldberg versus Diamond Dallas Page
It was evident that, in life and as characters, these two held a tremendous respect for one another. The brainstorming going into the finish was incredible. DDP complained that Goldberg kicked out too quickly, a problem caused by Goldberg suffering a legit concussion, but it looked to me like a standard near fall.
Fortune's Rating: 4 spears out of 4

Tonight's match: Goldberg versus Bam Bam Bigelow

CloneTheHero posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

Goldberg is the most boring top draw of all time. Literally worse than the Ultimate Warrior.

lmao thats like saying stephen hawking was the dumbest genius of all time... doesnt matter, hes a genius.

also goldberg was more impactful than that roid head UW, also did it in wcw where the nwo were forced pushed to no end. to be able to draw when you have those clowns keeping you down is nothing short of a miracle. the exact opposite of boring imo.

No offense intended but you come off a little markish there. They pushed him at least as hard as the nWo, which they fed to him on a silver platter. It was never left up to him to make a name for himself, they planned his push from the start.

And I don't dispute that he was huge or that he drew money (I did refer to him as a top draw). He was just never particular fun to watch. He had his entrance and two moves and that was it. Ultimate Warrior wasn't any better in the ring but had the better entrance.
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On Bischoff's podcast he did say that Goldberg wasn't capable of longer matches and had a limited repertoire.
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I wouldn't trust Eric Bischoff if he said it was snowing outside. :v

CloneTheHero posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

No offense intended but you come off a little markish there.

just calling it down the middle. if that makes me a "mark" then so be it.

SpiralDrift posted...

They pushed him at least as hard as the nWo, which they fed to him on a silver platter. It was never left up to him to make a name for himself, they planned his push from the start.

only at the very beginning when it suit them. they gave him the streak. what came after? a goofy finish to kevin nash, they even turned heel... their top draw babyface gets turned lol. he main evented one more ppv after the streak and that was a wrap, they put goldberg on the shelf and gave him no work.

it was one big skid afterward, effectively killing his mystique and ultimately wcw itself. killing their lone top draw because the nwo and bischoff were marks for themselves is singlehandedly the dumbest thing to ever happen in wrestling.

SpiralDrift posted...

It was never left up to him to make a name for himself, they planned his push from the start.

ummm... you cant be serious? goldbergs push was never planned lmao. it happened organically, thats what made it so great. the dude came out of the powerplant green as hell, they just put him on tv for the fuck of it, little did they know the guy had megastar written all over him.

Well, here's Eric Bischoff explaining why they came up with the streak for him straight out of the Power Plant "out of necessity" to push him despite his limited abilities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXmqpvs2Deo" data-time="

And here's Hollywood Hogan being fed to him on a silver platter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoSlh5p2Cro" data-time="

Also it's no secret that they used piped chants as fans started getting bored of him, which means they tried to push him even as his popularity began to wane. So that's like the opposite of trying to bury him. Long story short, people got bored of him and his ego backstage didn't help him. Bischoff says dealing with him during that period was one of the worst parts of his career.
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FortuneCookie posted...

I wouldn't trust Eric Bischoff if he said it was snowing outside. :v

I mean objectively you could tell Goldberg was limited. That's the whole reason he was given squash matches. He made numerous dangerous mistakes in the Bret Hart match.
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CloneTheHero posted...

two things.

Bischoff is a weasel and will tell you what you wanna hear especially if it makes him look good. the guy never owns up to his mistatkes and always blames others. his word cant be trusted. he obviously wants to take credit for goldberg here when he had nothing to do with his development it was only after they realized he was hot shit that bischoff pushed him. there was ABSOLUTELY no plans to push him.

secondly goldberg wasnt fed to hogan, hogan agreed to do it because he was the one guy that looked believable. hogan has creative control he wouldnt do something he didnt agree with. this is common knowledge.

Plenty of other people have corroborated the story. Watch more shoot interviews.
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CloneTheHero posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

CloneTheHero posted...

two things.

Bischoff is a weasel and will tell you what you wanna hear especially if it makes him look good. the guy never owns up to his mistatkes and always blames others. his word cant be trusted. he obviously wants to take credit for goldberg here when he had nothing to do with his development it was only after they realized he was hot shit that bischoff pushed him. there was ABSOLUTELY no plans to push him.

secondly goldberg wasnt fed to hogan, hogan agreed to do it because he was the one guy that looked believable. hogan has creative control he wouldnt do something he didnt agree with. this is common knowledge.

Plenty of other people have corroborated the story. Watch more shoot interviews.

no they havent cause its a lie. please show me these shoots corroborating the story. bischoff always wants to take credit for the good but never responsibility for the bad.

I'm not gonna spend too much time looking since you're probably going to find a reason to discredit the source again. And let's be honest here, that's very easy to do with anyone involved in pro wrestling. But here's one where Kevin Sullivan talks about creating his gimmick. Kevin Sullivan was the booker second only to Bischoff at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILuaD1kp0Oo" data-time="

It should be noted that he was mistaken that their match was on Nitro. In other interviews it was said to have been a dark match.

So what part of "Goldberg" the character was the real Bill Goldberg's creation? I'll be fair and offer up the one thing that I know of, and that's the scream taunt he's said he took from Dan Severn. But basically everything else was manufactured for him, even down to his tights. He can take credit for his physique at least.
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Irony posted...

Watch Santa's Slay instead. It's basically a wrestling match.

"IM SANTA CLAUS, NOT FUCKING DRACULA!"
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You're gonna have to tell me why I should bother past the point of you dismissing the guy who actually called the shots in WCW. Do you think anyone else could have even made that decision besides Eric Bischoff?

Also if Bischoff is still so ego crazed why would he accept responsibility for killing the streak? Very few people in the business thought it was a good idea (in hindsight anyway), but he doesn't have a problem fessing up to it.
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CloneTheHero posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

You're gonna have to tell me why I should bother past the point of you dismissing the guy who actually called the shots in WCW. Do you think anyone else could have even made that decision besides Eric Bischoff?

Also if Bischoff is still so ego crazed why would he accept responsibility for killing the streak? Very few people in the business thought it was a good idea (in hindsight anyway), but he doesn't have a problem fessing up to it.

lol your little 2 min vid disclosed absolutely nothing of consequence. he didnt even touch the subject of goldbergs booking. he briefly talks about wanting to turn him into the jewish tyson, the final minute discusses brock lesnar and kevin owens lmao.

again, youre pulling links out of your ass that have little to no relevance to booking.

I was talking about Bischoff here, not Sullivan. The Sullivan video was just to prove that he was getting a push from the top from the start. He was a project. He was nothing special before they got to him but they had a vision and gave him enough of a push for it to work. To his credit he did put in a lot of work, but the push couldn't really be organic if he came out as a monster on day 1.

Did you watch Nitro at the time this all originally aired? Hugh Morris wasn't huge or anything at the time but he was one of the top heels of his "division" (first 30 minutes or so of the show). So for someone just to come in and squash him wasn't organic at all. That's a pretty standard way to push a new monster.
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Day 7, Goldberg versus Bam Bam Bigelow
SuperBrawl '99. This may be my favorite Goldberg match. Not for the action, but for the psychology of it. The two men acted like they were in a real fight, Bam Bam's strategy was solid, and we even got a rare avoidance of the spear. I particularly like the ending when Goldberg realizes he hasn't worn Bam Bam down enough to put him away, so he kicks him and hits the spear a second time. More wrestlers should do that instead of miracle comebacks.
Fortune's Rating: 4 spears out of 4

If you've got an ex-football player on hand, Bam Bam Bigelow can get the best out of them. I wonder what Bam Bam versus Steve McMichael would've been like.

Tomorrow's match: Goldberg versus Kevin Nash (Spring Stampede '99)

On the Rise and Fall of WCW DVD, Bischoff seemed more humble and said he couldn't take all the credit for Goldberg. What does he say about Goldberg on his podcast? In the Bret Hart episode, he only comments on Goldberg not being capable of longer matches and not being the best worker.
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Final Day, Goldberg versus Kevin Nash
Spring Stampede '99. This match had an interesting creative decision to it: all of the early offense went to Kevin Nash while all of the later offense went to Goldberg. I've seen that in martial arts movies, and Japanese pro wrestling, but never that I recall in western pro wrestling. For a rematch from Starrcade, this one felt surprisingly low key. Still, it was a good match for what it was and Goldberg got his revenge on the man who ended his streak.
Fortune's Rating: 2 spears out of 4

No Goldberg vs Bret?
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Vol2tex posted...

No Goldberg vs Bret?

I wanted to focus on matches that Goldberg won. It also wouldn't have been very festive to watch a man's career ended.

FortuneCookie posted...

Vol2tex posted...

No Goldberg vs Bret?

I wanted to focus on matches that Goldberg won. It also wouldn't have been very festive to watch a man's career ended.

But it was a Montreal Screwjob rehash so Goldberg was screwed.
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It was also a flat finish at the biggest show of the year.