Current Events > PC Gaming is superior to console

(+) Yeah! (+)

Akagami_Shanks posted...

Console exclusives are better than PC exclusives by far, all the decent PC only games end up coming to consoles

sometimes, sometimes not. I haven't actually played any Xbox games where this holds true, and in the rare case that it might be true it wouldn't justify the cost of buying a console for one game. Meanwhile PC objectively has hundreds of quality games and will always get new releases. I bought a switch because I expected a good library of games, not just one game.
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Sony has the best exclusives
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Zodd3224 posted...

Sony has the best exclusives

No, Nintendo does. Sony comes in second.
Unfortunately PC has been shafted with the esports scene and Steam, so true quality has taken a severe plummet for PC games on average since the 90s/00s. That said though there are still good exclusives. It just rarely comes without the overbearing big AAA publisher bullshit that nobody ever wanted.
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The exclusives are better on consoles if you care about AAA games.

PC has several exclusives with an extremely dedicated and hardcore audience that you'll never find on consoles. There's an insane amount of variety. You've also got a library that now spans around three decades.

It depends what you want.
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Akagami_Shanks posted...

Console exclusives are better than PC exclusives by far, all the decent PC only games end up coming to consoles,

This is purely a matter of opinion. That said there are tons of PC exclusives that never come to consoles. A lot of them are very good as well.

Virtually no RTS games ever go to Console. Going all the way back to Starcraft 64 is just a demonstration of why they don't come to consoles.

Most MMOs actually worth playing are PC exclusive. I guess Final Fantasy XIV is on console but that's basically it.

Despite PSVR's best efforts (which weren't really all that) most VR games actually worth playing are PC exclusive. They recently got Beat Saber which is cool but the gap is going to widen as VR technology improves on PC unimpeded by console generations.

At the end of the day, PC gaming is primarily about options, and not being able to replace all other forms of gaming. Consoles remove most of your options and choices in exchange for giving you a small amount of choices that you can't get anywhere else.

A top end gaming PC costs a lot of money but can you really put a price on your choice?
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All the launchers/stores you have to deal with now on PC versus all in one on consoles.
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who could forget borderlands 2 vr
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SocialistGamer posted...

All the launchers/stores you have to deal with now on PC versus all in one on consoles.

crying about launchers is like 2002 material. get with the times. no one cares about launchers anymore.
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SocialistGamer posted...

All the launchers/stores you have to deal with now on PC versus all in one on consoles.

1. You can add non-Steam games to Steam
2. You only 'have to deal with them' if you choose to
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Darmik posted...

1. You can add non-Steam games to Steam

Steam, in reality, is more a point against PC gaming than for. The only thing it's done in a positive way is made shopping for PC games more convenient.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Akagami_Shanks posted...

Console exclusives are better than PC exclusives by far, all the decent PC only games end up coming to consoles,

This is purely a matter of opinion. That said there are tons of PC exclusives that never come to consoles. A lot of them are very good as well.

Virtually no RTS games ever go to Console. Going all the way back to Starcraft 64 is just a demonstration of why they don't come to consoles.

Most MMOs actually worth playing are PC exclusive. I guess Final Fantasy XIV is on console but that's basically it.

Despite PSVR's best efforts (which weren't really all that) most VR games actually worth playing are PC exclusive. They recently got Beat Saber which is cool but the gap is going to widen as VR technology improves on PC unimpeded by console generations.

At the end of the day, PC gaming is primarily about options, and not being able to replace all other forms of gaming. Consoles remove most of your options and choices in exchange for giving you a small amount of choices that you can't get anywhere else.

A top end gaming PC costs a lot of money but can you really put a price on your choice?

rts games dont come to consoles because no one would buy them. They're extremely niche.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Darmik posted...

1. You can add non-Steam games to Steam

Steam, in reality, is more a point against PC gaming than for. The only thing it's done in a positive way is made shopping for PC games more convenient.

Steam has a lot more features than just convenience.

Akagami_Shanks posted...

rts games dont come to consoles because no one would buy them. They're extremely niche.

For console gamers. Not for PC gamers.

They're not the same market.
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Akagami_Shanks posted...

rts games dont come to consoles because no one would buy them. They're extremely niche.

No one really buys indie games on console and yet there's still tons of them there.
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Darmik posted...

Steam has a lot more features than just convenience.

All other "features" are actually DRM, paywalls, or shady business practices. It all lowers the quality of the PC gaming experience.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Darmik posted...

Steam has a lot more features than just convenience.

All other "features" are actually DRM, paywalls, or shady business practices. It all lowers the quality of the PC gaming experience.

Thanks to Steam I can use any controller I want, I can stream games to my laptop and Android devices and I can use a Windows Mixed Reality VR headset. They also give me a list of games that I personally might be interested in and it's usually right.
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Darmik posted...

Thanks to Steam I can use any controller I want,

Available without Steam.

Darmik posted...

I can stream games to my laptop and Android devices and I can use a Windows Mixed Reality VR headset.

I'm unclear about what exactly you're doing here so I can't comment, but VR has been around for quite a while and so has streaming.

Darmik posted...

They also give me a list of games that I personally might be interested in and it's usually right.

Literally ads. Those existed when PC games were on the shelves.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Available without Steam.

No where near as easy or unified though. I don't need any third party programs. Steam does it all for me.

P4wn4g3 posted...

I'm unclear about what exactly you're doing here so I can't comment, but VR has been around for quite a while and so has streaming

Streaming games from my PC to other screens in the house so I can play anywhere.

Steam has their own VR headset called Vive. But they let other VR headsets use Steam because that's what they do. Most other companies do not do this.

P4wn4g3 posted...

Literally ads. Those existed when PC games were on the shelves.

No it's a list I can decide to look at that's specifically showing me games that I should like.

Considering how many games are on the platform this service is needed.
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Darmik posted...

No where near as easy or unified though. I don't need any third party programs. Steam does it all for me.

...which in turn means Valve now dictates that market 100%. No innovation allowed. Laziness is a particularly terrible excuse for being okay with that.

Darmik posted...

Streaming games from my PC to other screens in the house so I can play anywhere.

Idk I feel like this would have been inevitable with or without Steam. I know there is various desktop software that allows it regardless, like TeamViewer. Its not as specific to what you are saying but still.

Darmik posted...

Steam has their own VR headset called Vive. But they let other VR headsets use Steam because that's what they do. Most other companies do not do this.

Yeah great, another niche market that Valve gets a publishing monopoly on.

Darmik posted...

Considering how many games are on the platform this service is needed.

Dude if you couldn't find good PC games before Steam then it probably isn't for you because as I said, they became steadily worse as Steam has been around.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

...which in turn means Valve now dictates that market 100%. No innovation allowed. Laziness is a particularly terrible excuse for being okay with that.

But they give way more freedom to both gamers and developers than any other company?

There's also plenty of storefront competition anyway. Epic Games seem to be going on hard.

P4wn4g3 posted...

Idk I feel like this would have been inevitable with or without Steam. I know there is various desktop software that allows it regardless, like TeamViewer. Its not as specific to what you are saying but still.

The PC Market probably would have died off or gone super casual without Steam.

P4wn4g3 posted...

Dude if you couldn't find good PC games before Steam then it probably isn't for you because as I said, they became steadily worse as Steam has been around.

I don't really know how you could possibly blame that opinion on Steam.
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I like controllers better than KBM and I'd like to play against other controllers.

Darmik posted...

But they give way more freedom to both gamers and developers than any other company?

They don't. Many companies before Valve would let gamers and open source devs freely mod and rerelease their games. That market is heavily controlled now and innovation is stunted.

Darmik posted...

The PC Market probably would have died off or gone super casual without Steam.

Unfortunately this is probably true, but that isn't what I'm arguing against.

Darmik posted...

I don't really know how you could possibly blame that opinion on Steam.

It's just that all you had to do was try various games or keep in touch with PC gamers. Or check magazines.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

They don't. Many companies before Valve would let gamers and open source devs freely mod and rerelease their games. That market is heavily controlled now and innovation is stunted.

Controlled in what way?

What innovation is being stunted by Valve?

P4wn4g3 posted...

It's just that all you had to do was try various games or keep in touch with PC gamers. Or check magazines.

Thanks to digital storefronts like Steam there are way more games being released today compared to the 90's and early 2000's. If anything a big issue is that there's a lot of great games out there being buried because there's so many to keep up with.
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True, but

Being laid up in your comfy ass bed >>>>>>>>> being hunchbacked over your keyboard

Of course a plus-100 topic results from this...
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Noirespanties posted...

True, but

Being laid up in your comfy ass bed >>>>>>>>> being hunchbacked over your keyboard

You can play PC games on your TV quite easily.
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Darmik posted...

Noirespanties posted...

True, but

Being laid up in your comfy ass bed >>>>>>>>> being hunchbacked over your keyboard

You can play PC games on your TV quite easily.

Yes but at that point you might as well own a console

You still have to fuck around with the non-game parts after you're done, which isn't really a thing for consoles. Turn on, play, turn off.
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AvantgardeAClue posted...

Darmik posted...

Noirespanties posted...

True, but

Being laid up in your comfy ass bed >>>>>>>>> being hunchbacked over your keyboard

You can play PC games on your TV quite easily.

Yes but at that point you might as well own a console

You still have to fuck around with the non-game parts after you're done, which isn't really a thing for consoles. Turn on, play, turn off.

After you're done with what?

Boot into Steam Big Screen Mode and use a controller and you've got yourself a console experience.
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Darmik posted...

Controlled in what way?

What innovation is being stunted by Valve?

Valve controls its marketplace and the content it allows there, and moreover the way things are developed and produced. If you want to make a game you have to follow Valve's rules. If you want to make a mod, you have to follow Valve's rules. If Valve hasn't set up a way for aspiring developers to get in on the fun they have to go out and figure it out on their own. There are no longer modding communities like in years past. Therefore a lot of developers who otherwise have the potential to make much better things find something like RPG maker and tinker with it instead of raw C used in whatever game they are interested in. They publish their bad beginners work on Valve and never touch it again and that's the real reason there are so many games on Steam and so many are bad. People can't collaborate because Valve doesn't want them to, doing so would represent competition to their marketplace. And it's the users of this marketplace who perpetuate the issue.

Even with all this though there are still pet projects of small groups that arise, they just don't happen as often as they used to and they rarely develop into something bigger.

I think this should answer both your questions. Oh and of course we could examine other production monopolies who have bought out other companies and their IPs and draw similar conclusions, ala Activision, EA, Riot, Microsoft, Bethesda, etc.
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Your next argument might be something like "Well we don't have any choice and without these companies doing it like this we wouldn't have any PC games". Sure maybe, but they don't need you to defend them because they have spent years destroying the industry and building it back the way they want it to be so they can monopolize it. Not saying there is much to do about it, but I am saying you shouldn't defend what's going on there.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Darmik posted...

Controlled in what way?

What innovation is being stunted by Valve?

Valve controls its marketplace and the content it allows there, and moreover the way things are developed and produced. If you want to make a game you have to follow Valve's rules. If you want to make a mod, you have to follow Valve's rules. If Valve hasn't set up a way for aspiring developers to get in on the fun they have to go out and figure it out on their own. There are no longer modding communities like in years past. Therefore a lot of developers who otherwise have the potential to make much better things find something like RPG maker and tinker with it instead of raw C used in whatever game they are interested in. They publish their bad beginners work on Valve and never touch it again and that's the real reason there are so many games on Steam and so many are bad. People can't collaborate because Valve doesn't want them to, doing so would represent competition to their marketplace. And it's the users of this marketplace who perpetuate the issue.

Even with all this though there are still pet projects of small groups that arise, they just don't happen as often as they used to and they rarely develop into something bigger.

I think this should answer both your questions. Oh and of course we could examine other production monopolies who have bought out other companies and their IPs and draw similar conclusions, ala Activision, EA, Riot, Microsoft, Bethesda, etc.

But the impression I got was that Valve is about as hands off for a digital storefront as you can get. I've never really heard developers say that Valve is too controlling over their content. They give you Workshop stuff for mods if you want to use them for example. But you can still mod games outside of Steam if you want to. You're not forced to use the workshop unless the developer has designed it that way themselves.

But they don't restrict things on the store to sell their own accessories. They don't pay developers for exclusive content. They don't really do much of anything outside of hosting an absolutely massive store and give tools to use and curate it.

I can't think of any other digital storefront that gives as much freedom as Steam does. On any platform.

I feel like you're blaming Steam for a market that was always shifting towards a certain direction. PC gaming of the 90's wasn't sustainable as budgets ballooned and development became more complex.

Why would you make a mod like Counter-strike these days when you could make a new game and sell it?
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Darmik posted...

mod games outside of Steam if you want to. You're not forced to use the workshop unless the developer has designed it that way themselves.

Right you can. And you can set up your own servers to host games for those mods. And get licensing fees for those servers. And so on. It was more ragtag before Valve but again that community and its knowledge was much more easily tapped. And yes, some games make for notable exceptions to Valve's world.

Darmik posted...

But they don't restrict things on the store to sell their own accessories.

I wouldn't go that far. For some reason the top 10 played Steam games somehow always include Left 4 Dead, Team Fortress 2, Portal/Portal 2, and Counterstrike. They can make those games dirt cheap because they have already been made and they get 100% of the profit. They can open up the modding scene for them a bit wider even though they wouldn't want you licensing something without their blessing because basically they will make money on it no matter what. That leaves the rest of the games with a smaller group of developers and less power for competing.

Darmik posted...

I can't think of any other digital storefront that gives as much freedom as Steam does. On any platform.

Sure, but every other e-store is absolutely God awful.
Valve definitely wants to make sure users don't get any bright ideas of going elsewhere, but at the same time they don't want them being too creative. They want users to feel like they are being given a good experience, that doesn't mean that is what users are getting.

Darmik posted...

I feel like you're blaming Steam for a market that was always shifting towards a certain direction. PC gaming of the 90's wasn't sustainable as budgets ballooned and development became more complex.

Fair point I guess. We certainly have no way of knowing the alternative.

Darmik posted...

Why would you make a mod like Counter-strike these days when you could make a new game and sell it?

Yeah exactly, and that's what these AAA developers are counting on. Stay small and out of their way.
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TBH if you can get an Xbox One X (which has been as low as $400 in the past month) there's very little reason to get a gaming PC outside of exclusives, mods, and frame rate whoring (which admittedly I'm guilty of, but many Xbox One X enhancements include frame rate boosts)

Game Pass trivalizes game prices, and while people love bringing up the fact that you can play Xbox exclusives on PC, you have to buy them outright first.

360 games are still cheaper than most Steam versions (the way people hype up Steam you'd make it think it's on Black Friday pricing all year round, but in my research I've found comparable prices between Xbox/PC versions) and Xbox backwards compatibility is one of those things that everyone may not need, but the ones who do will love it a lot.

I want to play Fallout 3 on Xbone? Pop the disc in and enjoy.

I want to play Fallout 3 on PC? Fuck around with the compatibility settings, start it up, still find out it won't run because it was made for Windows fucking Vista, look up help online, tweak a setting or two, try it again, find out it still doesn't work, ask about it on a forum and get no help because everyone's PC layouts are different.

4K is a double edged sword, but I'd love to see the PC builders post a build for a comparable build that includes KBM/controller, an OS, and the such, things that all come with consoles standard.

Obviously everyone's needs and wants are different, but I still think an Xbone X and a Switch is a fairly enticing combo for most people to play just about everything, with getting a cheap PS4 for their exclusives too.
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The major difference is you need to rely on Microsoft to add BC and you need to rely on them to add enhancements. PC all of that is up to you.

PC also has subscription services such as Humble Bundle monthly. Game Pass is on the way. They just gave away Destiny 2 completely for free. Epic Games is going to give out free games all throughout next year at no cost to you at all.

The biggest difference with PC is that you can make it what you want it to be.
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I'm happy to play on a console. But go ahead, continue to invest time and effort into being publicly pissy about my choice.
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Not really viable to have friend's over and play games on PC.
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Rikiaz posted...

Not really viable to have friend's over and play games on PC.

Probaby not an issue that comes up often *runs away*
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Rikiaz posted...

Not really viable to have friend's over and play games on PC.

Err what? It's one of the most viable.
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Obvious-fucking-ly PCs are more flexible, which is why I'm glad I brought up how most people who just want to play the games and not fuck around with settings will love consoles.

Even with subscription services out of the way, console games are still marginally cheaper thanks to the fact that physical games are still very present and can be bought elsewhere than Steam. Sure, bring up GoG and other sites that sell keys, but their deals and prices are not always around and most people just use Steam in the end because where else are you gonna go? I can get CoD Infinite Warfare/Modern Warfare Remastered for $15 right now on Xbox, while PC it's back to $80.

Destiny 2 being free isn't exactly a hill I'd climb on, considering it was free for PS4 back in September and as low as $5 on Xbox and has a shitton of DLC that is required to get anywhere in it.

FFS Darmik agree to disagree already, you gonna take this to 500 or something
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Yeah I wouldn't argue against that people who only care about playing AAA games as easy as possible are better off with a console.

I got a retail copy of Infinite Warfare on PC over a year ago for like $5. Some stores are still dumb enough to sell retail PC games.

AvantgardeAClue posted...

Destiny 2 being free isn't exactly a hill I'd climb on, considering it was free for PS4

You paid a subscription for that.

AvantgardeAClue posted...

FFS Darmik agree to disagree already, you gonna take this to 500 or something

I don't care what your preference is. I'm just correcting incorrect assumptions made about PC gaming.
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overall id agree, but both tend to have their pros and cons. lately iv been on console more, probably will be in the future until nvidia stops going up their own ass. the hardware side really needs more competition.

I built my pc on carpet with no static wrist thing and I can still play games at high settings and good fps

Still don't need to upgrade after 4 years
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Darmik posted...

You paid a subscription for that.

No, I paid for the other features and it happened to be one of them.

Darmik posted...

I don't care what your preference is.

Clearly.

Darmik posted...

I'm just correcting incorrect assumptions made about PC gaming.

Right, just don't use various personal experiences though and assume they negate any arguments. One lucky physical PC copy of Infinite Warfare doesn't mean they're all $5 now, nor that people actively buy physical PC copies either
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AvantgardeAClue posted...

No, I paid for the other features and it happened to be one of them.

Features that are free on PC

AvantgardeAClue posted...

Right, just don't use various personal experiences though and assume they negate any arguments. One lucky physical PC copy of Infinite Warfare doesn't mean they're all $5 now, nor that people actively buy physical PC copies either

https://ebgames.com.au/pc-217181-Call-of-Duty-Infinite-Warfare---Legacy-Edition-PC

This is Australia's version of GameStop. I'm sure there's plenty of stores in the US that have sold it or selling it for cheaper.
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Darmik posted...

Features that are free on PC

Well, you probably had to pay for the PC, so...
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Sphyx posted...

Darmik posted...

Features that are free on PC

Well, you probably had to pay for the PC, so...

I said the features were free. Not the PC.
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You can't very easily enjoy PC services without a PC to enjoy them on.
Which i'm assuming you paid for... OR DID YOU?!
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Zodd3224 posted...

Sony has the best exclusives

No, Nintendo does. Sony comes in second.
Unfortunately PC has been shafted with the esports scene and Steam, so true quality has taken a severe plummet for PC games on average since the 90s/00s. That said though there are still good exclusives. It just rarely comes without the overbearing big AAA publisher bullshit that nobody ever wanted.

Lolno.
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